Bruce Jenner special

[spima3]

Yeah, it’s incredibly tough on kids. As a wife, I would be bloody ticked off, but as an adult you move on eventually. I think for kids, at certain ages, it can be devastating.

A guy I worked with for years changed public genders. He had 2 tween kids, and they spent quite some time in therapy. They basically went from having “dad” to having Jenny. His wife became his ex and their whole world fell apart.

In Jenner’s case, his kids are older and live in a very adult world as it is, so I think their adjustment will be far different.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I don't think he did it for publicity. If it were another family member (Kardashian)? Sure, absolutely that would be my first thought. He always came off as different to me & really just on that show because he is the dad. He partly needed to do this because he was being slammed & humiliated by paparazzi & entertainment news outlets. He even said in his interview that one of his surgeries got leaked by the paparazzi & they were humiliating him & he was so devastated that he contemplated suicide one night.

He is also a motivational speaker (by trade-http://www.apbspeakers.com/speaker/bruce-jenner) He's been doing this for many years. I partly think he did this for himself, as part of therapy, as well as for others who are struggling with this. He is in a great position, as a celebrity, to reach out & support others, possibly save the lives of many transgendered individuals who are feeling hopeless & suicidal. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up doing motivational speeches down the road to trans teens or something, trying to support them.

I hope he does do this. There are many people out there who do need to hear his story.

I am not commenting on the E! News stuff or all the other publicity, because I am way too busy and not watching much TV. So that aspect for me is a non issue.

I would give him a pass on commenting on how he/she is going to conduct his/her life because that probably remains to be seen, even for him.

 

[cabanafrau]

I agree with you that some people will have a difficult time and be hurt but on the flipside some people will not be hurt and be happy that their loved one is able to live the life that they are meant to live.

Each individual will have their own feelings and opinions how this change by Bruce will affect them or alter there lives.

I am just a person who goes with the flow and it would not be something hurtful to me and I would be happy for my loved one. Those are just my personal feelings on the situation.

I think it might be a different kettle of fish to accept and wish happiness on your child making this transition than it would be to accept your romantic life partner making the transition. There's a willingness to go with the flow and then there's the possibility that the transition ruins the sexual aspect of the relationship for the non transitioning partner, which is not inconsequential, nor should it be expected to be dismissed. If the desires causing one partner to seek transition are to be accepted and supported, so should the desires of the other partner be equally valued and supported.

Discussing this aspect of the transition most people would assume you're discussing a heterosexual couple, like in Bruce Jenner's situation. But I suspect this issue would cause turmoil in many homosexual relationships as well. I can think of two particular homosexual couples for whom a transition seems likely to be a deal breaker.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I think it might be a different kettle of fish to accept and wish happiness on your child making this transition than it would be to accept your romantic life partner making the transition. There's a willingness to go with the flow and then there's the possibility that the transition ruins the sexual aspect of the relationship for the non transitioning partner, which is not inconsequential, nor should it be expected to be dismissed. If the desires causing one partner to seek transition are to be accepted and supported, so should the desires of the other partner be equally valued and supported.

Discussing this aspect of the transition most people would assume you're discussing a heterosexual couple, like in Bruce Jenner's situation. But I suspect this issue would cause turmoil in many homosexual relationships as well. I can think of two particular homosexual couples for whom a transition seems likely to be a deal breaker.

No, no difference for me. At this point in my life, I do not put the kettle of fish in the blender and make my life difficult. I accept things as they are and move on with life.

To be fair though, I have plenty of things that I have to accept and move on with life and some of them are pretty serious things. Transgender ranks below those things.

 

[cabanafrau]

No, no difference for me. At this point in my life, I do not put the kettle of fish in the blender and make my life difficult. I accept things as they are and move on with life.

Interesting in a meta way, meaningful and meaningless, accepting and dismissive, freedom and a trap.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Interesting in a meta way, meaningful and meaningless, accepting and dismissive, freedom and a trap.

I am tired this morning so you will have to explain this.

 

[Lynne M]

I'm still painfully ignorant. It's not sexuality, but what is it beyond clothes, hair, makeup and fingernails? For him it seems his interests remain the same, golf and racing. He stated, "Bruce is not gay." Then later in the interview, after saying it wasn't about sexuality, said he didn't know if he'd still prefer women.

It goes way beyond clothes, hair, makeup and fingernails, or being interested in sports. Lots of straight, male-identifying men are very into clothes, and styling their hair, and their appearance in general. Lots of straight, very girly women are into golf and racing.

Male and female brains are different. You can see the differences in imaging studies. I haven't done much research, but my personal guess is that this is something that happens during gestation. Typically, the brain goes in sync with the physical gender. If the two don't develop in sync, you'd get people who feel very deeply and strongly that they are of the opposite gender, and it starts in early childhood. It's not just wanting to wear a dress.

Sexual preference doesn't appear to be linked to gender dysphoria. Some transgender people are attracted to the opposite sex, some are attracted to the same sex, some are attracted to both. Just like people who are not transgender.

Google "transgender" or "gender dysphoria" and you'll find lots of really good explanations. The bottom line is, gender and attraction are far, far more complex than we used to think they were.

 

[cabanafrau]

I am tired this morning so you will have to explain this.

On one hand, which I take to be your philosophy, you can indeed go with the flow, accept things the way they are and get on with life. On the other hand that same notion could be used to say Bruce Jenner should go with the flow of being a man, accept things the way they are and get on with life.

If you (metaphoric you) are in a romantic partnership and your partner reveals their desire to change gender, you may ultimately wish them every happiness but be unable to relate to them in a romantic or sexual way and thus end the relationship. Sure, you can accept the way things are and move on with life, no doubt after a great deal of emotional turbulence and heartache and probably some bitterness along the way. No doubt it would be akin to a divorce or a death. I don't think many people would be capable of simply accepting such a sea change without some serious effort. It's not uncommon for relationships to hit the wall after a partner achieves tremendous weight loss -- and many times it's the partner who loses the weight who is unable to cope with the changes. I'd imagine that dynamic shares quite a few commonalities with gender transition.

 

[cabanafrau]

It goes way beyond clothes, hair, makeup and fingernails, or being interested in sports. Lots of straight, male-identifying men are very into clothes, and styling their hair, and their appearance in general. Lots of straight, very girly women are into golf and racing.

Male and female brains are different. You can see the differences in imaging studies. I haven't done much research, but my personal guess is that this is something that happens during gestation. Typically, the brain goes in sync with the physical gender. If the two don't develop in sync, you'd get people who feel very deeply and strongly that they are of the opposite gender, and it starts in early childhood. It's not just wanting to wear a dress.

Sexual preference doesn't appear to be linked to gender dysphoria. Some transgender people are attracted to the opposite sex, some are attracted to the same sex, some are attracted to both. Just like people who are not transgender.

Google "transgender" or "gender dysphoria" and you'll find lots of really good explanations. The bottom line is, gender and attraction are far, far more complex than we used to think they were.

My point was more, aside from dressing and presenting as a woman would present herself, possibly being called a different name, what would Bruce Jenner like to be different than what he has in his life currently? Thus far sexuality seems to be the same, his interests seem to be the same, he's told his children he'll still be dad. What is it he needs? He sent some mixed messages on the anatomical aspects and I understand that question can be considered rude or insensitive. Other than clothing and anatomy I'm not understanding what he might be seeking and that's what I was hoping he could voice.

 

[anniemae]

My point was more, aside from dressing and presenting as a woman would present herself, possibly being called a different name, what would Bruce Jenner like to be different than what he has in his life currently? Thus far sexuality seems to be the same, his interests seem to be the same, he's told his children he'll still be dad. What is it he needs? He sent some mixed messages on the anatomical aspects and I understand that question can be considered rude or insensitive. Other than clothing and anatomy I'm not understanding what he might be seeking and that's what I was hoping he could voice.

I am not pretending to understand, but I think it's about not "hiding" anymore. He said he wants to wear nail polish and dresses for more than two hours. Privately, behind closed doors, he is "her" dressing in female clothes, make up and nail polish. If he goes out in public, he has to be Bruce. So he dresses in track suits, and takes off the heels and make up. I think he just wants everything out there so he can go about his life the way he feels comfortable, which is as "her" instead of leading a double life i.e. a woman in private and a man in public.

 

[Halloweenqueen]

I was confused by this as well. His history seems like there were times in his life that he put on his sister's, wives', and daughters' dresses. He said he likes make up and nail polish. I thought those feeling would be more in keeping with a transvestism rather than transgender.

 

[mnrose]

I just watched the interview, and thought he came across as very genuine. I am happy he is being able to now live the life he has always felt.

I have one friend who's husband transitioned to being a woman. They are still very much together and raising their three children. My friend said, to her, divorcing was not an option. She fell in love with the person, not their gender, and is still in love with that person. The person has always been sexually attracted to women, which I think now makes her a lesbian (not my friend, but her spouse). I also think we will find that Bruce continues to be sexually attracted to women.

Not sure I could be as understanding as my friend. If my husband announced he wanted to become a woman, I would certainly wish him well. Whether our marriage survived, I honestly can't say.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

Also, does he use the male or female bathroom while out? At the spa, female or male changing/lounge rooms?

He just doesn't seem very committed to being a female. I guess that is the vibe I am getting. He doesn't have a female name (yet). He says he is not gay? But is attracted to females? How is that? So, he wants to be a she. Well, if you are a female and you are attracted to females, then aren't you a lesbian?

I am laughing at myself, because this is an issue that makes me feel very old and out of touch. I just don't understand the rules to all of this.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

On one hand, which I take to be your philosophy, you can indeed go with the flow, accept things the way they are and get on with life. On the other hand that same notion could be used to say Bruce Jenner should go with the flow of being a man, accept things the way they are and get on with life.

If you (metaphoric you) are in a romantic partnership and your partner reveals their desire to change gender, you may ultimately wish them every happiness but be unable to relate to them in a romantic or sexual way and thus end the relationship. Sure, you can accept the way things are and move on with life, no doubt after a great deal of emotional turbulence and heartache and probably some bitterness along the way. No doubt it would be akin to a divorce or a death. I don't think many people would be capable of simply accepting such a sea change without some serious effort. It's not uncommon for relationships to hit the wall after a partner achieves tremendous weight loss -- and many times it's the partner who loses the weight who is unable to cope with the changes. I'd imagine that dynamic shares quite a few commonalities with gender transition.

For starters we will have to agree to disagree with your first paragraph. I do not believe that someone who is trans has to remain as their gender to conform to society norms.

Secondly, for me personally, at my age of 50, I am not going to waste my life in emotional turbulence and heartache. I do understand that some people will do that however I am not one of them. My personal philosophy in life is to accept your reality and move forward.

 

[sbtrfly74]

It goes way beyond clothes, hair, makeup and fingernails, or being interested in sports. Lots of straight, male-identifying men are very into clothes, and styling their hair, and their appearance in general. Lots of straight, very girly women are into golf and racing.

Male and female brains are different. You can see the differences in imaging studies. I haven't done much research, but my personal guess is that this is something that happens during gestation. Typically, the brain goes in sync with the physical gender. If the two don't develop in sync, you'd get people who feel very deeply and strongly that they are of the opposite gender, and it starts in early childhood. It's not just wanting to wear a dress.

Sexual preference doesn't appear to be linked to gender dysphoria. Some transgender people are attracted to the opposite sex, some are attracted to the same sex, some are attracted to both. Just like people who are not transgender.

Google "transgender" or "gender dysphoria" and you'll find lots of really good explanations. The bottom line is, gender and attraction are far, far more complex than we used to think they were.

This hits the nail on the head exactly, we are born with the same brain and something about how much testosterone enters the brain in utero determines gender which may not match which parts we are assigned.

He said very clearly that sexual desire has nothing to do with who he felt his gender was they are apples and oranges i.e his "soul". Some he couldn't explain because its just him, and while he is still Bruce can refer to him as him. If he's attracted to women then I can understand getting married and having children.

All I can say is it seems like either many ppl didnt watch the entire interview or projected their personal view into what they heard or just have selective hearing.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

All I can say is it seems like either many ppl didnt watch the entire interview or projected their personal view into what they heard or just have selective hearing.

Honestly, I just think it is a very confusing topic to many of us. It's like all of a sudden, society is expected to look at this as a very normal occurrence.

Male in the female bathroom? Oh well, he wants to be a female, so he can go wherever he wants. Male going to an all female school because he wants to be a girl? How dare anyone question that! Male wants to marry a female and then say he's a female too? No biggie.

Some of us aren't to that point yet. Doesn't mean we aren't paying attention or have selective hearing. We just aren't there yet. I have to say once again, as I try to educate myself on this subject, it is all very confusing.

 

[sbtrfly74]

Honestly, I just think it is a very confusing topic to many of us. It's like all of a sudden, society is expected to look at this as a very normal occurrence.

Male in the female bathroom? Oh well, he wants to be a female, so he can go wherever he wants. Male going to an all female school because he wants to be a girl? How dare anyone question that! Male wants to marry a female and then say he's a female too? No biggie.

Some of us aren't to that point yet. Doesn't mean we aren't paying attention or have selective hearing. We just aren't there yet. I have to say once again, as I try to educate myself on this subject, it is all very confusing.

I agree with you on its all confusing, and Im not sure how I feel about the bathroom issue unless they were fully transitioned. My comment was referring to many statements he made or questions he answered that are either taken out of context or questions still being asked. My perception is that maybe the interview wasn't watched or a lot was missed.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

Just a quick search on sexual orientations blows my mind. I had no idea there were so many names and labels. This list is just the tip of the iceberg (from wiki), but how can't this all be mind blowingly confusing? And then I am reading that there are some people that get angry or annoyed if they are mislabeled? Are there really people out there that are familiar with every one of these terms (and then some!)?

And, do we just allow all typical gender roles go by the wayside now? I have read that there is a movement, albeit small, that doctor's and parents don't announce the sex of the baby when they are born. That the child should choose what they want to be down the road. Will this one day be the norm as well?

Please forgive the choppy cut and paste.

• Androphile

• Asexual

• Autogynephilia

• Autosexual

• Bicurious

• Bisexual

• Gay

• Gynephile

• Heterosexual

• Homosexual

• Monamorous

• Pansexual

• Polyamorous

• Polysexual

• Pomosexual

• Queer

• Same gender loving

• Straight

• Questioning

• Antisexual: being opposed to sexuality, or someone for whom this is true. An antisexual person may or may not be asexual.

• Aromantic: not interested in romantic relationships

• Autosexual: an asexual with a sex drive; someone who can experience sexual pleasure but considers it a private, solitary activity

• Hetero-romantic: someone who is romantically attracted to people of the opposite sex (and may be sexual or asexual)

• Bi-romantic: someone who is romantically attracted to people of many sexes/genders (and may be sexual or asexual)

• ****-romantic: someone who is romantically attracted to people of the same sex (and may be sexual or asexual)

• Hetero-asexual: a shorten form of hetero-romantic asexual

• Bi-asexual: a shorten form of bi-romantic asexual

• ****-asexual: a shorten form of ****-romantic asexual

• Demisexual: a person who experiences sexual attraction only to one person with whom they are in an intense romantic relationship or a person who only experiences secondary sexual attraction

• Grey-A: a person in the grey area between sexuality and asexuality

• Gay-A: another term for homoromantic-asexual

• Straight-A: another term for heteroromantic-asexual

• Hyposexual: having a low sex drive

• Nonlibidoism: not having a sex drive

• Pan-romantic: Asexual and romantically attracted to others regardless of gender

• primary sexual attraction: instant sexual attraction, according to Rabger's model

• primary sexual desire: wanting to engage in sexual activity for the purposes of pleasure, according to Rabger's Model

• secondary sexual attraction: sexual attraction based on the strength of a relationship, according to Rabger's Model

• secondary sexual desire: wanting to engage in sexual activity for reasons other than pleasure, according to Rabger's Model

• sensual: enjoying pleasure brought through the senses, which may or may not be sexual

• Sexual: a person who is not asexual (i.e. a heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual etc.)

• Type A: an asexual having a sex drive and no romantic attraction

• Type B: an asexual experiencing romantic attraction and no sex drive

• Type C: an asexual experiencing both romantic attraction and sex drive, but not experiencing sexual attraction

• Type D: an asexual who experiences neither romantic attraction nor sex drive

 

[cabanafrau]

For starters we will have to agree to disagree with your first paragraph. I do not believe that someone who is trans has to remain as their gender to conform to society norms.

Secondly, for me personally, at my age of 50, I am not going to waste my life in emotional turbulence and heartache. I do understand that some people will do that however I am not one of them. My personal philosophy in life is to accept your reality and move forward.

No, no, my first paragraph was two DIFFERENT ways of interpreting your words about accepting life as it is and moving forward. I did say I took your philosophy to be the first, and I'm still understanding you that way. I didn't say that transgender people have to conform, merely that your words could be used to express that notion just as easily as not.

It is a rare person who can simply accept life and move forward without any emotional turbulence and heartache. I don't know anyone who can do so. While I definitely consider myself a realist, I don't merely accept everything life hands me as is, no complaint, no upset, no attempt to make changes that better suit me.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I agree with you on its all confusing, and Im not sure how I feel about the bathroom issue unless they were fully transitioned. My comment was referring to many statements he made or questions he answered that are either taken out of context or questions still being asked. My perception is that maybe the interview wasn't watched or a lot was missed.

I think he was contradictory in the interview and it leaves many questions.
That's the thing that was odd that I couldn't put my dinner on before.
On one hand he said he's always felt he had a woman's brain but other than appearing like a woman, he didn't explain what he means. He still likes all these things that are typical guy things.