**Book Club** Discussion - Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.

[snoopy]

I've heard many people say that Sirius is not really dead, but hasn't JKR said that he is definately NOT coming back?

 

[DisneyGirl]

1) Give us a review of the book.

I liked OOTP, and I think it was a necessary transition, as I think in Half-Blood Prince, it will get even darker. I think OOTP showed a preview of just how much evil is lurking about (before, the only evil we've really seen is out of Voldemort himself-- now, we saw Umbridge, not to mention all of the Death Eater's in the battle at the end, as well as Fudge's ignorance). I kind of think that OOTP was a transition book of sorts between the books where Harry is still making his transition and learning to understand and fit into the Wizarding world, to the part of the story where he is going to have to step up to his fate to having to SAVE this world he's only been in a few years. I think it was a preview to a lot more that he is going to face.

2) How did you feel about Sirius' death? How do you think it will effect Harry in Half-Blood Prince?

Sirius' death was not that big of a deal to me personally-- maybe its because I was never all that crazy about Sirius to begin with. Now, how will that affect Harry?? I think it will either do one of two things-- the one I think it will likely do is to make him angry toward everyone he feels played a part in his death-- This is a boy who lived his whole life with relatives that hated him. He goes to the Wizarding world and learns about his parents and how they died. Now, as soon as he finds someone to be a parental figure towards him, and he is killed as well. I think that this will cause him to really have the determination to get rid of Voldemort and the Death Eaters because of what they have done to the people he loved.

I think the other thing that could happen is that he can become withdrawn, but I don't think that is likely because I don't think it would be a very good plot device

I also think that Sirius will make *some* sort of appearance in the last two books-- I just don't know what kind of appearance (I still think there is more to that broken mirror then just proving Sirius was dead entirely)


3) Do you think Fred and George's joke shop will be a success?

I think that the joke shop will be *very important*, and it will be one of those things where we go "ah-- I see how that fits in the puzzle." I think that not only is the joke shop going to be a success, but it will also play an important part in the downfall of Voldermort.

4) What is really going on with Percy?

In an interview, J.K. Rowling was asked if Percy was acting on his own, and she replied that unfortunately, he is. I don't think he's turned evil, but I do think that he is so caught up with himself that he will do anything his superiors tell him to do, and he believes that his superiors are infallible. I do believe some of his superiors may be involved with Voldemort, so I think that Percy may be inadvertently helping the Death Eaters without even being aware of it.

I hope he comes to his senses sometime in the next two books!!

5) Do you feel Dumbledore should have told Harry everything at the beginning of the book?

No. I don't think that's in Dumbledore's nature. I think up until the 5th book, we were almost led to believe Dumbledore was an omniscient character in the book, who could do no wrong. I think in this book, we saw that is NOT true at all. Dumbledore made some mistakes, and he now realizes it. I wonder whether he will change in the next two books, or continue to tell only what he feels is meant to be known.

Only a couple more days until Half-Blood Prince!!

 

[teacherforhi]

I didn't feel sad at all that Sirius died. I'm such a bad person! I honestly was tired of his whining and 'poor me' attitude. Even to the extent that he made Harry feel bad about going back to Hogwarts! You would think that he, of all people, would understand how important the work of the Order was and just suck it up and take one for the team.

 

[DisneyGirl]

I've heard many people say that Sirius is not really dead, but hasn't JKR said that he is definately NOT coming back?

I remember the interview you are talking about, and I don't remember the exact wording she said it in, but I think there is room for him to "appear." JKR is so crafty in the way she words things-- she doesn't lie in her answers, but you sometimes have to read between the lines ... BTW, I understood what she said the same as you did, but other people have interpreted it separately, which then makes me think, hmmm... maybe they are right...

 

[LoraJ]

The first time I read it, I didn't like it very much at all. I felt it was way too long, there were way too many scenes with Umbridge (I actually started skipping stuff everytime she was mentioned. But after listening to it on the drive down to WDW on my honeymoon, I had a much better appreciation for it. I can't stress enough how awesome the recorded books are!

I have "read" all of the HP books on audio. Jim Dale has to be the best audiobook reader out there. I will be up all night Friday importing the CD's into my iPod. LOL! With the HP books, I tend to get both the audio version and book version. So I can listen in the car, and sneak a peek at the book while at work. lol.

 

[septbride2002]

1) Give us a review of the book.

I was irritated for most of the book. The injustice really bothered me and I felt indignant on Harry's behalf. Like many, I particularly hated Umbridge.

For me, OotP really didn't answer any questions. There were so many things left over that still need to be fleshed out.​

2) How did you feel about Sirius' death? How do you think it will effect Harry in Half-Blood Prince?

I was heartbroken. Yes, I cried. I think it will make Harry more practical and measured. I hope he'll be more likely to ask for help.​

3) Do you think Fred and George's joke shop will be a success?

Of course...​

4) What is really going on with Percy?

What do you mean? I don't think that he's conscioiusly a bad guy. I just think he was caught up in his well-meaning ambition. But, you know what they say about good intentions. The interesting things to see will be if he's kicked out along with Fudge, what his new job will be, and if he can swallow his pride.​

5) Do you feel Dumbledore should have told Harry everything at the beginning of the book?

I understand why he didn't, but I think he should have. He should have found a way to reveal the information to Harry safely. His silence put Harry in even more danger. He should have known (knowing Harry) that Harry is independant and would not be likely to ask for help.​

I've put together a whole list of questions and issues... I wish I could attach it.

Can you copy and paste?

 

[ophie]

Can you copy and paste?

It's 6 pages long.

 

[septbride2002]

It's 6 pages long.

Okay! How about just doing page 1?


~Amanda

 

[ophie]

Okay! How about just doing page 1?


~Amanda

lol, let me see what i can come up with...

 

[ophie]

Okay, part 1

Unanswered Questions pre-OotP (not answered in OotP)

What were James’s & Lily’s professions?
What happened to the rest of Harry’s family?
Do the Hogwarts staff members have families?
How did Dumbledore defeat Grindewald?
How did Voldemort’s curse rebound? If nothing can block it, how was it rebounded? And why did Voldemort live?
Does Slytherin house only accept purebloods? If not, isn’t that against its founder’s ideals? If so, why did the Sorting Hat consider Harry for Slytherin?
Is there further significance of Harry being a “true Gryffindor?”
Will we see any of the items from Borgin & Burkes?
Are there any more of Voldemort’s old school things? If so, does L. Malfoy have them?
“Chamber of Secrets” is plural. Are there more “secrets” to be revealed?
Why did LV’s mother (as a descendant of Slytherin) fall in love with a muggle? Was she a decent person?
Does LV have any other family?
Does Ginny have a connection with Voldemort because of CoS? If so, will it come into play and how?
Does Harry have a Godmother?
Why does LV tell Lily to “stand aside” rather than killing her right away? Why didn’t she have to die?
Who owns the Riddle House?
Did Fred and George “know” the QWC results?
Were the DEs who tortured the Longbottoms only after information about Voldemort or was there another reason?
Where was Neville when his parents were attacked?
How does the Pensieve work? Is the stored memory a factual record or is it colored by the perceptions of the person who places the memory in the Pensieve?
How did Voldemort know how Harry was protected at the Dursley’s? How did he know that Dumbledore used the old magic?
What was Dumbledore’s “look of triumph” at the end of GoF?
Did Pettigrew’s life debt affect LV’s rebirth?
Did Fudge intend for the Dementor to kiss Crouch, Jr.? Was he an unknowing accomplice in the “cover-up?”
When Harry names Malfoy as a DE to Fudge, “Snape made a sudden movement, but as Harry looked at him, Snape’s eyes flew back to Fudge.” What is that about?? More fuel on the Snape/Malfoy fire.
Why does Dumbledore trust Snape?
Why is it important that Harry has Lily’s eyes? Green eyes?
Why is it only Lily’s sacrifice that protects Harry? Why doesn’t James’s sacrifice protect Lily and Harry?
Can the ghosts be of assistance to either side during the war?
Why haven’t we heard about the blood status of people like Dumbledore, McGonagall, Snape, the other professors, Pettigrew, Umbridge, the founders, etc? What are their statuses?

 

[ophie]

Part 2

OotP Unanswered Questions, etc.

Pg. 5 “invisible force seemed to have surged through his nephew” What’s that about?
Pg. 30 What did Dudley hear during the Dementor attack?
Pg. 92 Why is DD the only one LV ever feared?
Pgs. 105-106 Where were the purged Dark Magic items from Grimmauld Place purged to?
Pg. 118 What was Lupin doing for the Order during his long absences from Grimmauld Place?
Pg. 169 Moody uses his magical eye to check the writing desk and says it’s a boggart. Did he see the boggart’s true form or did he see his worst fear?
Pg. 207 What other times has the Sorting Hat given warnings?
Pg 229 Why does Binns teach if most students don’t learn from him?
Pg. 336 Who is the Hogs Head Bartender? Is it Aberforth Dumbledore?
Pg. 359 How would someone intercept post owls?
Pg. 361 Malfoy looked shocked when Neville charged him outside Potions. Did Lucius & Narcissa Malfoy never tell Draco about his aunt’s crime? Do they shelter Draco from just how into Dark Magic they are? He seems to know that they torture muggles and that they’re in with Voldemort, but he doesn’t seem to know why his mother’s sister is locked up in Azkaban.
Pg. 363 Why doesn’t DD let Snape teach DADA?
Pg. 364 Fudge obviously told Umbridge that Snape has a Death Eaters mark. If Fudge doesn’t believe that Voldemort is back, why would that matter? Is it another way to discredit Dumbledore? Another of his eccentric hirings?
Pg. 370 What did Mundungus do to get banned from the Hog’s Head?
Pg 470 DD’s fragile silver instrument “but in essence divided?” – What does it do?
Pg 475 “Kreacher’s footsteps stopped.” Did Kreacher tell the Malfoy’s about Harry’s vision? Did LV know about it himself or both?
Pg. 480 What was Arthur’s cover story?
Pg 514-515 Is there any significance to the bubble gum wrappers that Alice Longbottom gives Neville? Are they just sentimental?
Pg. 520 What is the relationship between Snape & Lucius Malfoy? Why would Sirius use the term “lap dog?”
Pg. 522 “whispered conversation” ??
Pgs. 584-586 Where is LV while he’s laying low? The Riddle House?
Pg. 591 Snape tells that it’s his job to find out what LV is saying to the DEs. Is that what he’s really doing? How? Is that all he’s doing?
Pg. 607 Other than Hermione & Cho did any other DA members manage to conjure corporeal patronuses? Who were they and what were their patronuses?
Pg. 622 What did DD do when he left Hogwarts?
Pg. 675 (end of Ch 29 – Career Advice) What sort of career advice did Ron and Hermione get?
Pg. 689 (& 723) How would Hagrid be able to help Dumbledore? Was he able to?
Pg. 709 Who, if anyone, tried to cheat on OWLs?
Pg. 711 How old is Professor Marchbanks if she examined Dumbledore in NEWTs?
Pg. 714 Testing is alphabetical… why was Harry testing at the same time as Hannah Abbott?
Pg. 715 Why did Umbridge smile nastily at Harry after he did well on his DADA practical?
Pg. 717 Is there no written exam for Divination?
Pg. 724 Where did Fred and George get the Nifflers that they left with Lee?
Pg. 736 Is there anything to the Stubby Boardman Quibbler story?
Pg. 745 What does Lucius Malfoy say about Snape to Umbridge? What is the connection between them!?!?
Pg. 769 Was there supposed to be someone at the Security Desk? If so, where was he/she?
Pg. 771 Was the circular/rotating room to keep them from knowing the way out? If so, why? Security?
Pg. 773-775 What is behind the veil? Why can Harry hear voices?
Pg. 774 Why is Harry inclined to walk through the veil? And why are Ginny and Neville “entranced” by the veil?
Pg. 774 Why is Hermione “much more scared” in the Veil room than in the brain room? And why is she “angrier than the occasion warranted?”
Pg. 775 What exactly is behind the door that the kids can open?
Pg. 777 Why is the Hall of Prophecy cold?
Pg. 778 Some of the prophecies glow, some are dull, why? Have the dull ones already come to pass? Have they been viewed by those to whom they refer?
Pg. 779 How are the prophecies catalogued? Chronologically by when they’re stated? Chronologically by when the event will happen? Alphabetically by the Seer? By the Witness? By the Topic?
Pg. 781 Why is Ch.35 called “Beyond the Veil?”
Pg. 784 Do the Death Eaters think that Voldemort is a pureblood?
Pg. 785 Are the prophecies that are smashed by Bellatrix’s deflected stunner relevant?
Pg. 786 Malfoy says that they thought Harry would have wanted to hear the exact wording of the prophecy. Does that mean that they don’t know that Dumbledore was the witness of the prophecy? Did the eavesdropper not know who gave the prophecy and who heard it?
Pg. 787 If entering the MoM is so dangerous for Voldemort, how are 6 kids and a dozen Death Eaters able to be there with no opposition?
Pg. 788 Why are there so many Death Eaters there? And where is Goyle? Why send someone as feeble as Nott? Is Nott okay?
Pg. 790 Why doesn’t the “time room” automatically affect the people in it or the spells cast within it? If someone were killed there, would they die, mend, die again, etc?
Pg. 791 Who is the baby-headed Death Eater (Crabbe, Rastaban, Avery?) and is he healed?
Pg. 795 Why did Ron go all funny?
Pg. 798 What spell is a silver light?
Pg. 799 Why do the Death Eaters stop closing in as soon as Harry steps onto the veil’s dais?
Pg. 806 What killed Sirius? Was it the spell or the veil?
Pg. 813 Why doesn’t Voldemort’s killing curse destroy the wizard statue?
Pg. 813 Why does the killing curse set the security desk on fire?
Pg. 814 What was the spell that Dumbledore used that caused the gong sound? What was it that he was trying to do rather than seeking to kill Voldemort?
Pg. 814 What are the “other ways of destroying a man?”
Pg. 814 Dumbledore says, “Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit-“ Why not? What would?
Pg. 814 To what fate worse than death is Voldemort susceptible? Other tragedy requires emotion & attachment, but Voldemort has no love, empathy, compassion, etc.
Pg. 817 Why is the veil room called the “Death Chamber?”
Pg. 818 Will the Fountain of Magical Brethren be rebuilt? Will it be remade in a realistic form?
Pg. 820 Why are the former headmasters and headmistresses in Dumbledore’s office portraits all sleeping when Harry arrives? Shouldn’t those with MoM portraits already know that something has happened?
Ch. 37 Why can Harry and Dumbledore have close contact for this entire chapter without Voldemort’s influence? Why doesn’t Harry feel the snake inside him? Did the emotion that released him from Voldemort’s possession in the DoM prevent Voldemort from using him again?
Pg. 824 “Harry, suffering like this proves you are still a man!” Still a man? What does that mean? As opposed to what?
Pg. 828 What exactly does Dumbledore mean by “closer than headmaster and pupil?” Is it just that he sees Harry as more than just a student?
Pg. 831 Why would Sirius not have barred Kreacher from revealing anything about Harry?
Pg. 838-839 How closely has Dumbledore watched Harry and how has he watched him?
Pg. 840 “that person has the means of recalling it perfectly.” Does he mean just him or all prophecy witnesses?
Pg. 842 How did the Potters and Longbottoms “thrice defy” Voldemort? When and how did they escape him?
Pg. 843 Who was the eavesdropper and why was he thrown out? Did he not know to whom he was listening?
Pg. 843 Is the “room kept locked” the same room that Harry et al could not enter? Is it where love is studied?
Pg. 844 Harry asks Dumbledore if the prophecy means that either he or Voldemort will have to kill the other one and Dumbledore says yes. Is that really the only way?
Pg. 845 How much will “elementary home and personal defense” really be worth?
Pg. 846 Does this (or any other) article list which Death Eaters were captured at the DoM?
Pg. 847 Will Ron have permanent wounds effects from the brain wounds?
Pg. 848-849 What happened to Umbridge in the forest? How did Dumbledore rescue her?
Pg. 849 Are Trelawney and Firenze really both going to teach?
Pg. 849 “either murderer or victim, there was no other way…” Are we sure about this?
Pg. 857 What was Dumbledore’s speech at the end of term feast?
Pg. 857-858 Is the other mirror still at Grimmauld Place? Can Harry repair his?
Pg. 861 Is Nearly Headless Nick saying that Sirius won’t come back and become a ghost because he wasn’t afraid to die? How did the ghosts choose to become ghosts? Does every wizard afraid of death automatically become a ghost or is it a conscious choice?
Pg. 863 What does Luna know about the veil? Is she right?
Pg. 865 Why didn’t Hermione tell someone how to remove the SNEAK hex?
Pg. 868 Are Hermione’s parents in danger?
Pg. 870 Why are they all so sure they’ll see Harry again so soon?

 

[ophie]

Part 3

Post-OotP Questions

How did the trio do on their OWLs?
What classes will the trio take during 6th year?
What will Percy do now that he’s been proven wrong?
Who will be the new Minister of Magic? (Amelia Bones?)
Are the Longbottoms being prevented from regaining their sanity? Is there a conspiracy at St. Mungos? (Malfoy’s donations?)
Will Harry continue Occulmency?
Will the DA continue?
What will Rita do now that her “ban” is over?
Will the names of the Death Eaters captured at the DoM be revealed? How will the students treat the children of those people?
Will Voldemort still try to hear the prophecy? How else could he hear it? Would he be able to force it out of Trelawney?
What will happen to the Room of Requirement now that so many people know about it?
Will the Order keep Grimmauld Place as Headquarters?
Will Sirius’s named be cleared?
What will happen to Sirius’s possessions? What about Kreacher & Buckbeak?
Will Harry forgive Dumbledore?
Will Sturgis be cleared?
Will it be possible to charge someone with Bode’s murder?
Will Neville improve now that he’ll have his own wand?

 

[ophie]

Part 4

OotP Ominous Moments

Pgs. 554-555 Ron & Hermione’s conversation re: Snape’s loyalty & trusting DD. “If we can’t trust Dumbledore, we can’t trust anyone.” So can we trust DD?
Pg. 665 Professor McGonagall’s fate - “Potter,” she said in ringing tones, “I will assist you to become an Auror if it is the last thing I do!” In literature, it’s generally pretty bad luck to utter those words. Was her bad luck that she was stunned and injured or is there something else in store for McGonagall?
Pg. 718 Ron’s fate - “And from now on, I don’t care if my tea leaves spell die, Ron, die – I’m just chucking them in the bin where they belong.” Self explanatory.
Pg. 774 Harry’s fate – “The gently rippling veil intrigued him; he felt a very strong inclination to climb up on the dais and walk through it.” Is this Voldemort’s influence? Is Harry unknowingly drawn to sacrifice? “Without really meaning to put it there, he found his foot on the dais.”

 

[ophie]

Part 5

Potential Reusable Concepts/Items

Already Reused
Polyjuice Potion
Portkey
Animagus​

Metamorphmagus
Founder’s Heirs
Founder’s Items/Artifacts (i.e., Gryffindor’s sword)
Alchemy
Norbert, Aragog, Grawp
Sirius’s mirror, motorcycle
Wormtail’s silver hand (also an ominous moment)
Flying Ford Anglia
Droobles Wrappers
Borgin & Burkes Items
Chocolate Frog Cards (they have to be used!)
Hagrid’s Pink Umbrella
Trevor
Mimbulus Mimbletonia
Time Turner

Patterns

DADA teachers
1st year – LV supporter
2nd year – incompetent
3rd year – good teacher
4th year – LV supporter
5th year – incompetent
6th year – ?? good teacher ??
7th year – ?? LV supporter ??
Book Climax
1st year – whole trio there for the action (HHR)
2nd year – only Ron & Harry (HR)
3rd year – only Hermione and Harry (HH)
4th year – Harry alone (H)
5th year – Hermione stays with Harry longer (HH)
6th year – ?? Harry & Ron (HR) ??
7th year – ?? all three (HHR) ??


I warned you guys it was long...

 

[rascalmom]

lol, let me see what i can come up with...

Please!

I had tried to post this earlier, but somehow my post got lost in cyberspace.

My Review:

I love OotP. JK really took the series to a whole different level with that book. I started reading Harry just as my older daughter was 11 - she is now 17. It has been interesting to see the depth of the books grow right along with Harry & JK's readers.

Sirius:

I wasn't that upset with his death. (I WAS upset that that part of the story was spoiled for me by one of the bratty neighbor kids. I was waited for dd to finish the book before I started & just as my turn came this little loud mouth spilled the beans!) I think there will be more to Sirius' story - the veil is a mystery, so is the mirror that he left for Harry to communicate with. Even though it was broken, I think we will somehow hear from Sirius.

Percy:

The Weasley's are all such a nice, beloved family. One of them would be bound to end up as a jerk. I think Percy is vulnerable to being influenced or controlled by Voldemort. Too power hungry. But I think he will eventually come back around & be a minor hero in some way.

Dumbledore:

He kept his secrets for reasons. I think he felt Harry really needed to learn a few things before he heard to the whole story. I hope he gets all of his story out soon though - I don't think he's gonna make it!

 

[teacherforhi]

Why did LV’s mother (as a descendant of Slytherin) fall in love with a muggle? She may not have known she was a descendant of Slytherin. It seemed as if only Dumbledore knew that Voldemort was the last surviving relative.

Why does LV tell Lily to “stand aside” rather than killing her right away?
He didn't come to kill Lily. He wanted to kill Harry.


How does the Pensieve work? Is the stored memory a factual record or is it colored by the perceptions of the person who places the memory in the Pensieve? I don't think it's colored by their perceptions, but it only shows their perception.

That's all I've got...

 

[teacherforhi]

Pg 229 Why does Binns teach if most students don’t learn from him? I don't think they every say that the students don't learn from him, just that they're incredibly bored by him. Besides, I bet he's cheap.

Pg. 370 What did Mundungus do to get banned from the Hog’s Head? I'm sure any number of things. Mundungus isn't know for being on the right side of the law.

Pg. 714 Testing is alphabetical… why was Harry testing at the same time as Hannah Abbott? They are called in alphabetically, but several students are tested at the same time. Considering that it looks as if Hannah was having some problems, it might not be unreasonable that she was taking a long time to get through the exam.

Pg. 824 “Harry, suffering like this proves you are still a man!” Still a man? What does that mean? As opposed to what? The next line is "The pain is part of being human..." I think Dumbledore is just trying to reassure Harry that what is feeling is natural and that he shouldn't be ashamed of feeling that way that he is.

Pg. 845 How much will “elementary home and personal defense” really be worth? Not much at all, but it's a way of making the people feel as if they were doing something. I equated it with old filmstrips of children crawling under their desks in case of an A-bomb attack in the 50s and 60s. It wouldn't help them at all, but it made it seem like they were doing something.

Pg. 870 Why are they all so sure they’ll see Harry again so soon? I took that to mean that they're trying to make it up to him for leaving him out of the loop the previous summer. After all, it's Ron and Hermione who promise to see him soon. Mrs. Weasley only promises that they'll try to get him soon as they can.

 

[teacherforhi]

Part 3

Post-OotP Questions

How did the trio do on their OWLs? They find out during the holidays, so it'll be addressed in Book 6, I'm sure.

Are the Longbottoms being prevented from regaining their sanity? Is there a conspiracy at St. Mungos? (Malfoy’s donations?) I don't think so. Fixing someone's mind isn't the same as fixing their body.

Will the DA continue? I could see this two ways. One, there isn't a need considering that Dumbledore will hopefully appoint a better DADA teacher. However, they learned a lot and they may continue as a club.

What will Rita do now that her “ban” is over? She doesn't have to make stories up now. With Voldemort out in the open, there's more than enough to write about.

Would he be able to force it out of Trelawney? I thought that was why Dumbledore was so keen on keeping Trelawney at Hogwarts. She really is too clueless to take care of herself out in the world.

What will happen to the Room of Requirement now that so many people know about it? It still only appears when it's needed. I don't think it matters that they know about it, they just have to have a genuine need for it.

Will the Order keep Grimmauld Place as Headquarters? Yes, but I don't think they need it as much as this point. Before, they were having to operate in secret, hiding from both the Ministry and Voldemort. Now that everything is out in the open, a safehouse is still needed, but they don't have to hide the members quite as much.

Will Sirius’s named be cleared? When Peter Pettigrew is captured.

 

[ophie]

Um... just so we know... I realize that most of these questions can't be answered now. I'm writing ones, even little mundane things, that simply weren't answered...

 

[teacherforhi]

I know, just enjoy giving my opinion.