Average Day at MK- Rope Drop, Crowds, and Wait Times

[mom2rtk]

Most people are averse to change and unfortunately, many complain just for the sake of complaining. I have talked to several people who complained aboutt he new system, yet, have not even been to try it. Tehy get worked up by the masses who generally are uninformed and just dislike change. As someone who goes a great deal and has APs, we found the system to actually make touring much better. You can complain all you want about "sponteneity" but the reality is, everything you do in life is pretty much planned and planning anything always makes it easier to manage and invariably enjoy. We have not seen stand by times increase, nor have we had any issues using the FP+ system, getting fps or even getting extras later on. If you are willing to plan in advance, hit a couple of parks at rope drop, take advantage of EMHs, the new system actually makes touring much more enjoyable and less stressful. But, regardless, there are those who complain just to complain. I am yet to talk to anyone who has actually been and is a vet of WDW, used the new system, and doesnt think it is an improvement. Most of the people complaining either arent people who go more than once every few years or people who have not even been at all.

Disney is changing a lot of things at DLR. They just premiered a new parade and fireworks. A few years ago they completely changed things up in DCA. I loved all of it.

If I was just someone who disliked change, don't you think I would have disliked those things? Yet I loved everything about the DCA expansion and am quite excited to get back this year to see the new entertainment.

I personally find the "people just dislike change" argument an easy way to dismiss people you don't agree with.

I hope you understand that someone with an AP who gets a lot of access to the parks is likely to have a different perspective on this than someone who travels across the country for an occasional visit. If you miss something, you can just catch it on your next trip. For the person who won't be back for a year or two, having to choose between TSMM and RSR is a different matter.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm well aware of what the purpose of this section was. And what I am saying is that yes, it is easy to look at posted wait time data from 2013 and posted wait time data from now and see "oh, they aren't all that different.". However, as you demonstrated yourself, it is not unusual for wait times to be exaggerated and for a ride to have a 15 or 20 min posted wait when it is really a walk on. The posted wait time data doesn't do anything to indicate what actual wait was. So if someone comes on here and says that they used to always walk on to POTC, and now they are *actually* waiting 20 mins...even if the difference in posted wait time is only 5 mins, that's actually a 20 min increase in wait time for that person. That is not an insignificant increase.

I'm not suggesting that happens all the time, every day. But I do believe people have experienced just that. And those anecdotes are, imo, worth just as much - if not more - than statistical data about wait times that have a history of being inaccurate.

As pointed out, it depends. But for then to say they never waited and for someone to take that as gospel that it is always the case, they are going to have a problem on their next trip.

Maybe for then it was a 20 minute net increase. But for me--I have waited in that line many many times. The reason I don't now is because I usually get a FP because now I don't have to wait. But the wait would be on par with my experiences.

And no, I am it discrediting their personal experience. But I find no value on their generalized statements because often absence is the context that it was their personal experience on this day at that time. It is presented as a 365 day event a year phenomenon.

 

[Angel Ariel]

As pointed out, it depends. But for then to say they never waited and for someone to take that as gospel that it is always the case, they are going to have a problem on their next trip.

Maybe for then it was a 20 minute net increase. But for me--I have waited in that line many many times. The reason I don't now is because I usually get a FP because now I don't have to wait. But the wait would be on par with my experiences.

And no, I am it discrediting their personal experience. But I find no value on their generalized statements because often absence is the context that it was their personal experience on this day at that time. It is presented as a 365 day event a year phenomenon.

Whether or not statements are of value to someone, or helpful to them in any way is entirely subjective. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with those statements, or that everyone experiences those things. All I'm saying is that those experiences and anecdotes have the same right to be posted.

 

[Lucius Best]

Just to be clear, the main original point of this thread was to provide what I think is useful information for people planning trips about what they can expect to encounter when they visit the MK on an average crowd day.

Thank you for posting it, I found it a very interesting read.

But, as I have said on many occasions, I do think that the increases are often dramatically overstated. And all that does is create unnecessary anxiety for first time or infrequent visitors who are planning their trips.

I think you are dramatically overstating the amount of posters who are dramatically overstating the increase in standby wait times. Or maybe we are just looking at different posts, or visiting the DIS on different times of the day. I'd like to see a study that quantifies the increase (if there is one) in hysterical/stoopid/uninformed posts, before and after FP+.

In all seriousness, yes, it's not nice to freak people out for no reason, especially if you don't know what you're talking about. But I think some level of anxiety is good. FP+ is a big change, it requires more planning, maybe even a different touring strategy. If you used the old paper FP a lot, you'll either be doing fewer big rides, or waiting longer. When I was planning my first FP+ trip, I came here especially for the negative reports. I wanted to hear the personal experiences, good and bad, of people who toured like me (rope drop, commando, FP as much as possible). Someone else dismissing FP+ criticism by saying "some people just don't like change" or "you're experience is wrong, standby lines haven't increased" is adding nothing to the conversation.

 

[wisblue]

I'm well aware of what the purpose of this section was. And what I am saying is that yes, it is easy to look at posted wait time data from 2013 and posted wait time data from now and see "oh, they aren't all that different.". However, as you demonstrated yourself, it is not unusual for wait times to be exaggerated and for a ride to have a 15 or 20 min posted wait when it is really a walk on. The posted wait time data doesn't do anything to indicate what actual wait was. So if someone comes on here and says that they used to always walk on to POTC, and now they are *actually* waiting 20 mins...even if the difference in posted wait time is only 5 mins, that's actually a 20 min increase in wait time for that person. That is not an insignificant increase.

I'm not suggesting that happens all the time, every day. But I do believe people have experienced just that. And those anecdotes are, imo, worth just as much - if not more - than statistical data about wait times that have a history of being inaccurate.

I completely understand the point you have been making about anecdotal reports. That is why I pay more attention to reports from people who actually went through a line than from those who simply report about posted waits.

Here's one of those reports from my own experience. This one took place on Tuesday, May 5 at about 6 PM. After using a FP for 7DMT we stopped at Pinocchio's for a quick dinner. We took a seat where we could see the boarding area for IASW and wave to the people on the boats as they entered the ride. We decided that we would ride IASW after eating if the line wasn't too long. At that time, according to MDE the posted wait time at IASW was 25 minutes. But, from our seats we could see that the line was shorter than that. As we sat there, the line ebbed and flowed. At times it would only go back as far as the second FP+ checkpoint and at others it went back around the corner of the entrance ramp, but never as far back as the ride entrance and the extended queue back there. There seemed to be very few people coming through the FP line.

After we finished eating, we went on the ride. The posted wait time was still 25 minutes, but we walked right to the second FP+ checkpoint and were on a boat within 5 -10 minutes.

I think part of the problem with posted wait times these days is that it is more difficult for Disney to post estimate times because of the uncertainty of how many guests will be coming with FPs in the immediate future. This is especially true for the attractions for which FPs are not always "sold out". So, my observation has been that standby waits have been more overstated than they used to be. On our recent trips, I went on HM standby 4 different times, and every time our actual wait was 10-15 minutes less than the posted waits of 25-30 minutes. Again, maybe I am just lucky. Or maybe it makes a difference that our rides on HM always come about 2 -3 hours after park opening, after we have done our other favorite attractions. Maybe those posted wait times become more accurate, or even become understated, as the day goes on.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Disney is changing a lot of things at DLR. They just premiered a new parade and fireworks. A few years ago they completely changed things up in DCA. I loved all of it.

If I was just someone who disliked change, don't you think I would have disliked those things? Yet I loved everything about the DCA expansion and am quite excited to get back this year to see the new entertainment.

I personally find the "people just dislike change" argument an easy way to dismiss people you don't agree with.

I hope you understand that someone with an AP who gets a lot of access to the parks is likely to have a different perspective on this than someone who travels across the country for an occasional visit. If you miss something, you can just catch it on your next trip. For the person who won't be back for a year or two, having to choose between TSMM and RSR is a different matter.

While having an AP sure allows us to go more often and catch it the next time, it also allows us to personally witness patterns and wait times and crowd levels more often, right?

We all make choices in life. Some vacations are long, some are short, some are frequent and some are rare. You make the best choice for your circumstances.

In vacation mode--if I want to do things because they are important, I make the appropriate choices to make that happen. I account for crowds and popularity if the attraction and choose accordingly. Sometimes
Things get dropped. No matter where I go.

But I find those who visit often will have a better picture than someone who visits rarely or hasn't in a long time.

So I do find it dismissive to speak to pass holders in such a manner as to suggest they don't understand because they can just catch a ride next time. It missed the point of their contribution to the discussion entirely.

I would tell you that you don't have to choose between TSMM and RSR if I were a regular at Disneyland unless one of those has no fastpass AND features a 12 hour long line.

As for your mountain dilemma, there are 4, so one of those clearly cannot be a fastpass. And Splash isn't that long of a wait in the morning. So do your rope drop but head over to Splash sooner rather than later and you will not have an issue. Odds are also in your favor if you have your FP+ windows sooner rather than later, that you can FP splash as your 4th.

I have no advice if you wish to ride those multiple times since you wish to dedicate rope drop to secondary attractions. But I do know that you won't be forced to choose to not do one at all unless it breaks down.

And if you are heading to MK
On an EMH morning and not staying on site, that may be more of an issue.

Can't wait to hear about your trip and hope it goes better than you anticipate.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Whether or not statements are of value to someone, or helpful to them in any way is entirely subjective. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with those statements, or that everyone experiences those things. All I'm saying is that those experiences and anecdotes have the same right to be posted.

I was not claiming someone did not have the right to post.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I completely understand the point you have been making about anecdotal reports. That is why I pay more attention to reports from people who actually went through a line than from those who simply report about posted waits.

I guess we are just reading different posts, then, as most of the posts I've seen of this nature have been where people actually experienced the longer wait that they are discussing.

 

[Lucius Best]

If you are willing to plan in advance, hit a couple of parks at rope drop, take advantage of EMHs, the new system actually makes touring much more enjoyable and less stressful. But, regardless, there are those who complain just to complain. I am yet to talk to anyone who has actually been and is a vet of WDW, used the new system, and doesnt think it is an improvement.

Here I am! Congratulations, you have now met an experienced WDW vet who knows how to plan and hits every rope drop, but who doesn't think FP+ makes touring more enjoyable and less stressful.

If FP+ works for you, great! There are lots of different ways to do Disney, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. So please don't label people with different opinions as complainers who just like to complain. There are those who think their opinion is better than anyone else's, and like to just complain about people who complain just to complain.

On our last trip, there were some days FP+ was an advantage, but more days where we would have gotten more done with old paper FP. I will give you one simple concrete example of why FP+ was not an improvement for us. With old paper FP, our first three FP of the day at HS would typically be TSMM/RnRC/ToT. At Epcot it would be Soarin/TestTrack/TestTrack. At MK some days Thunder/Splash/Thunder, other days Space/Space/Buzz. At AK Everest/Safari/Everest. All of those touring strategies are now impossible with FP+ rules and tiers, resulting in us getting fewer rides on the attractions that we wanted to do the most. I hope you can understand that I'm not complaining just for the sake of complaining.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I was not claiming someone did not have the right to post.

I didn't say you did. :

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I didn't say you did. :

Sorry that I inferred that. Since you stated all that while responding to me when I never said that, I assumed.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I am yet to talk to anyone who has actually been and is a vet of WDW, used the new system, and doesnt think it is an improvement.

Add me to that list. Fp+ netted neutral on our trip. There were aspects that were quite helpful, and aspects that were not. It was not what we would consider an overall improvement.

 

[JanaDee]

Most people are averse to change and unfortunately, many complain just for the sake of complaining. I have talked to several people who complained aboutt he new system, yet, have not even been to try it. Tehy get worked up by the masses who generally are uninformed and just dislike change. As someone who goes a great deal and has APs, we found the system to actually make touring much better. You can complain all you want about "sponteneity" but the reality is, everything you do in life is pretty much planned and planning anything always makes it easier to manage and invariably enjoy. We have not seen stand by times increase, nor have we had any issues using the FP+ system, getting fps or even getting extras later on. If you are willing to plan in advance, hit a couple of parks at rope drop, take advantage of EMHs, the new system actually makes touring much more enjoyable and less stressful. But, regardless, there are those who complain just to complain. I am yet to talk to anyone who has actually been and is a vet of WDW, used the new system, and doesnt think it is an improvement. Most of the people complaining either arent people who go more than once every few years or people who have not even been at all.

LOL You must be "new" here.

 

[mom2rtk]

While having an AP sure allows us to go more often and catch it the next time, it also allows us to personally witness patterns and wait times and crowd levels more often, right?

We all make choices in life. Some vacations are long, some are short, some are frequent and some are rare. You make the best choice for your circumstances.

In vacation mode--if I want to do things because they are important, I make the appropriate choices to make that happen. I account for crowds and popularity if the attraction and choose accordingly. Sometimes
Things get dropped. No matter where I go.

But I find those who visit often will have a better picture than someone who visits rarely or hasn't in a long time.

So I do find it dismissive to speak to pass holders in such a manner as to suggest they don't understand because they can just catch a ride next time. It missed the point of their contribution to the discussion entirely.

I would tell you that you don't have to choose between TSMM and RSR if I were a regular at Disneyland unless one of those has no fastpass AND features a 12 hour long line.

As for your mountain dilemma, there are 4, so one of those clearly cannot be a fastpass. And Splash isn't that long of a wait in the morning. So do your rope drop but head over to Splash sooner rather than later and you will not have an issue. Odds are also in your favor if you have your FP+ windows sooner rather than later, that you can FP splash as your 4th.

I have no advice if you wish to ride those multiple times since you wish to dedicate rope drop to secondary attractions. But I do know that you won't be forced to choose to not do one at all unless it breaks down.

And if you are heading to MK
On an EMH morning and not staying on site, that may be more of an issue.

Can't wait to hear about your trip and hope it goes better than you anticipate.

I absolutely believe someone with an AP has a better opportunity to observe and comment on a larger cross section of experiences in the parks. A larger sample size will always be preferable. But that's different from having a typical feeling about and reaction to those experiences. It's just a different perspective. Honestly, I would probably love FP+ if I was a local AP holder. The stakes are just different if you can make up what you miss in a week or two when you get back again. That's not meant to be dismissive. It just is what it is.

I'm not sure I understand your DL comment. RSR does not have 12 hour lines, but it does have prohibitively long lines sometimes. We did miss out on riding Space Mountain last time we were in the MK because of a prohibitively long standby line. Yes, standby was available. But we don't do 120 minute waits. Heck, we really don't do 60 minute waits. I don't pay $100+ to spend a day in the MK only to spend 2 hours of that day in one line.

We are indeed staying onsite with the plan of staying until the end of the PM EMH. As such, we won't even be arriving at rope drop this time.

I appreciate the well wishes. I have every reason to expect that we will have an awesome time.

 

[Lucius Best]

I think part of the problem with posted wait times these days is that it is more difficult for Disney to post estimate times because of the uncertainty of how many guests will be coming with FPs in the immediate future. This is especially true for the attractions for which FPs are not always "sold out". So, my observation has been that standby waits have been more overstated than they used to be.

This is a good point, lines swell and dwindle depending on how many people are returning with FP at that moment, which is unpredictable. I was always under the impression that the posted standby wait times were somewhat inflated, people are happier if the posted 30 minute wait ends up being 20, but annoyed if a posted 10 minute wait is 20. With FP returners making standby wait times inconsistent on rides that didn't used to have FP, it would make sense for Disney to display standby wait times beyond the upper end of that range. That would theoretically make it more likely to experience a wait time significantly less than posted standby wait.

 

[larandtra1990]

New here. Eh, Ive perused the boards for a long time. And yes, my experience in reading is that many complain for the sake of complaining. Yes, an AP holder who goes regularly would have a drastically different view of the programs or roll outs of various things as compared to the one time a year or less visitor. And I find message boards tend to be a place for people to levy their complaints and generally without much evidence to back it up. There most certainly will be those who do experience things differently, but, I tend to rely much more on actual experience someone tells me about in person where you can ask questions and really see their thinking rather than anonymous posts on a message board. Disney doesnt do much of anything without seriously thinking steps ahead. And unless you are trying to think ahead with them and not just immediate gratification, then its easy to get caught up in the, "oh thats terrible".

 

[WillAustin]

I don't pay $100+ to spend a day in the MK only to spend 2 hours of that day in one line.

Me neither. Or even 2 hours in multiple lines.

Disney doesnt do much of anything without seriously thinking steps ahead. And unless you are trying to think ahead with them and not just immediate gratification, then its easy to get caught up in the, "oh thats terrible".

Yes, and what's good for Disney isn't necessarily always good for guests.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Sorry that I inferred that. Since you stated all that while responding to me when I never said that, I assumed.

The response of mine that you were responding to was not directed at you. I was only reemphasizing what the point of that post - the one you responded to, but wasn't in response to you - was.

Lol, I know that's confusing.wording, but it's all Ive got right now...can't think of a better way to word.it. I hope that clears up thus misunderstanding.

 

[mom2rtk]

New here. Eh, Ive perused the boards for a long time. And yes, my experience in reading is that many complain for the sake of complaining. Yes, an AP holder who goes regularly would have a drastically different view of the programs or roll outs of various things as compared to the one time a year or less visitor. And I find message boards tend to be a place for people to levy their complaints and generally without much evidence to back it up. There most certainly will be those who do experience things differently, but, I tend to rely much more on actual experience someone tells me about in person where you can ask questions and really see their thinking rather than anonymous posts on a message board. Disney doesnt do much of anything without seriously thinking steps ahead. And unless you are trying to think ahead with them and not just immediate gratification, then its easy to get caught up in the, "oh thats terrible".

So you're doubling down on the "people just hate change" theory for why some don't like FP+?

Do you have an theory for why so many of those same people are thrilled with the changes at DLR?

 

[Angel Ariel]

. And unless you are trying to think ahead with them and not just immediate gratification, then its easy to get caught up in the, "oh thats terrible".

One can think ahead right along with Disney, see and understand why they implemented this program, and still disagree with it (without the reason for disliking it being just disliking change). They are not mutually exclusive.