At the park now, FP+ lines are snaking through the park

[Cibahwewah]

Just returned last night, we were in the parks four full days, Feb 13-16. Yes, there were a few long lines at the fast pass check in but it went very quickly. Longest was 5 min at Expedition Everest. The problem (besides packs of 15 year old Brazilian girls getting in the queue all at the same time, but that's a dead horse) was that people were returning early or late and clogged up the line. There are 2 scanners and if you use it correctly it goes quickly. We used our 3 fast pass plus each day and all went smoothly. As a bonus, a "ghost FP+" even worked. We told the CM we didn't think it was valid, but Mickey turned green and he said "come on through." We knew it would be heavy crowds as it was President's Day weekend, so we adjusted our expectations accordingly. We followed Josh at Easy WDW's recommended days. The longest lines we stood in were POTC (30min) and HM (30min).
Here's how it went:
Epcot: rope drop at International Gateway: in 4 hours we rode: Test Track, Sum of All Thrills, Mission Space green, Living with the Land (ghost FP+), Soarin' (FP+), Nemo, Turtle Talk (FP+), Spaceship Earth (15min), then after lunch Maelstrom (FP+)
Magic Kingdom: rope drop: Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, Little Mermaid, Barnstormer, Dumbo, met Stitch, Buzz Lightyear (waited only 12 min even though using extended queue and posted wait was 25), Stitch's Great Escape, Space Mountain (FP+); all by noon; in afternoon we rode Jungle Cruise (15min), Pirates (30min), then killed some time (shooting gallery, railroad, tried LaFoue's brew--yummy), Mad Tea Party (5 min), Small World (10min), Big Thunder (FP+), Liberty Belle, Haunted Mansion (30 min), Enchanted Tales with Belle (FP+)
This day felt the busiest/heaviest. The posted wait times were inflated. Often we waited less or even half of the posted wait. We saw wait times in excess of 100 min at times, Princess Fairytale Hall was at 165min at one point but that may have been because the Princes were there as it was Valentine's Day. My kids weren't that into princesses on this trip, so the only one we met was Belle and DS refused to have his picture taken.
We had dinner at BOG but unfortunately missed Wishes because our dinner ran a bit long. We saw the later MSEP without having to stake out curb beforehand and said goodbye to TS talking Mickey (10min) on the way out.

Animal Kingdom: arrived at noon: Kali (walk on), Dinosaur (FP+), EE (20min), EE (FP+ 5min wait), Safari (FP+), Nemo (arrived 20 min early), EE (20min)

Hollywood Studios: rope drop: RR, Tower of Terror (5min), Star Tours 3 times (once with FP+ but waited about 10 min each time), Jack Sparrow, Toy Story (FP+), Beauty and the Beast, LMA, Indiana Jones, (each time arrived about 15min early, no prob getting seats), Fantasmic (arrived 45min early), Tower of Terror (FP+)

So, I know this is long-winded, and very detailed, so here is the TL;DR version:

I read complaints about FP+ on Disboards, had a touring plan with some strategy, went on a very busy weekend, had a great time, loved MM+/FP+, had low to moderate wait times, all-in-all, a successful trip.

 

[rockiesfan]

So I'm curious...... to all of you saying Disney is going to "fix" the problem........ what sorts of "fixes" do you think are possible? Do they add more FPs? Do they reduce FPs? Do they develop more sensitive Mickey head readers?

I wonder if Disney seriously underestimated the FP+ utilization rate during a crowded time, and didn't reduce the number of FP slots accordingly. Their calculations must factor in a certain number of no-shows; if a family has 3 FPs during a slower period, they might not see the point in interrupting whatever they're doing to keep their "reservations," or they might leave the park with the tired kids like PP mentioned, missing their later FPs. So there might be an overall 80% redemption rate (completely made-up number.) But on a crowded day, seeing the SB lines, not getting onto many rides quickly, people may be much more likely to use their FPs, maybe up to 90-95% (again made-up numbers) putting an additional 10-15% in the FP lines that they didn't anticipate. Suddenly a ride that can accommodate 1000 FP users/hour, that released 1250 slots/hour, is seeing 1125-1175 people show up in the FP line. That's a problem. If so, Disney needs to rewrite their algorithms to take into account different behaviors for different crowd levels. And if the utilization rate goes up, the total number of FP slots released has to go down...

 

[Angel Ariel]

1. Its a new system. Disney has had several years of historical data to be able to determine how many on average use of FP- tickets of each day, holiday, weekend that they can fit "X" number in each hour. You cant compare systems this early on, especially while they are still testing it.

This new system hasn't changed how many riders a ride can handle in an hour (no matter what ratio of standby:FP)...FP+ doesn't add capacity to rides.

 

[bobbie68]

The crazy thing is... There are no solutions. This whole problem is shortage of rides. By increasing the percentage of people using the system to 90%, they can now only further ration rides. There simply isn't enough capacity.

On top of that, they are taking their sweet time in creating more interactive standby lines.

This is quite a mess for peak season.

Agree

 

[Angel Ariel]

I agree - we got very good at it, but it still took 1-2 seconds to clear my wife and I at each checkpoint. We saw most folks really struggling to get their mickey head on the band flat against the center of the scanner. Some people took quite a bit of time to scan. People that stay for more than a few days will get better at this like we did, but people who are going for the first time or for only a few days will struggle (and some people will never get it).

Maybe the bands need a stronger RFID, which doesn't require an actual "touch"?

There really should be some fix to this solution. It's ridiculous. I use an RFID card for the metro here, and all it needs is a quick touch (anywhere..no specific point) and it reads my card, displays how much money is left on it (or deducts money, if I'm exiting), and I'm on my way in 1 second or less. No need to line it up a certain way...DH has been able to use his metro card while it was still in his wallet...just touch the wallet to the sensor and it reads the card.

I can't imagine the backups there would be at the metro during rush hour if it utilized the RFID tech like Disney is.

If the RFID in the bands is good enough to be able to link photopass ride photos while you are ON the ride (which I have read reports of here, that the ride pics just ended up in someone's account afterwards), then they should absolutely be able to figure out a way to make it so you don't have to line up mickey to mickey to get into the FP line

 

[clsteve]

I wonder if Disney seriously underestimated the FP+ utilization rate during a crowded time, and didn't reduce the number of FP slots accordingly. Their calculations must factor in a certain number of no-shows; if a family has 3 FPs during a slower period, they might not see the point in interrupting whatever they're doing to keep their "reservations," or they might leave the park with the tired kids like PP mentioned, missing their later FPs. So there might be an overall 80% redemption rate (completely made-up number.) But on a crowded day, seeing the SB lines, not getting onto many rides quickly, people may be much more likely to use their FPs, maybe up to 90-95% (again made-up numbers) putting an additional 10-15% in the FP lines that they didn't anticipate. Suddenly a ride that can accommodate 1000 FP users/hour, that released 1250 slots/hour, is seeing 1125-1175 people show up in the FP line. That's a problem. If so, Disney needs to rewrite their algorithms to take into account different behaviors for different crowd levels. And if the utilization rate goes up, the total number of FP slots released has to go down...

Yep, very good assessment. If you know you can only get three, you're darn sure going to use them. Especially after standing in line at a kiosk for 30 minutes or spending time on-line with MDE getting them. It's a good bet the utilization rates are much higher.

 

[nfceagles]

Agree

The only solution I can think of is to raise prices. Raise ticket prices, hotel prices, food prices. Something, in order to increase profit margins and reduce attendance. Without access to their data, it's hard to say where would be best, but it might be possible to make larger overall profits on fewer customers. If I owned a business and people were clammering to use my product and I didn't have enough capacity and couldn't add capacity quickly, that's what I would do.

 

[JanaDee]

There really should be some fix to this solution. It's ridiculous. I use an RFID card for the metro here, and all it needs is a quick touch (anywhere..no specific point) and it reads my card, displays how much money is left on it (or deducts money, if I'm exiting), and I'm on my way in 1 second or less. No need to line it up a certain way...DH has been able to use his metro card while it was still in his wallet...just touch the wallet to the sensor and it reads the card.

I can't imagine the backups there would be at the metro during rush hour if it utilized the RFID tech like Disney is.

If the RFID in the bands is good enough to be able to link photopass ride photos while you are ON the ride (which I have read reports of here, that the ride pics just ended up in someone's account afterwards), then they should absolutely be able to figure out a way to make it so you don't have to line up mickey to mickey to get into the FP line

DH's access card for work is RFID. He just stands backwards to the sensor at the door (card in his wallet) and it opens. The first time he did it, it took me a second to figure out what he was doing until the door beeped.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The only solution I can think of is to raise prices. Raise ticket prices, hotel prices, food prices. Something, in order to increase profit margins and reduce attendance. Without access to their data, it's hard to say where would be best, but it might be possible to make larger overall profits on fewer customers. If I owned a business and people were clammering to use my product and I didn't have enough capacity and couldn't add capacity quickly, that's what I would do.

Disney is already raising prices every year.

As for the "couldn't add capacity" - they could have. They chose to go a different route before adding capacity. Their right, of course, but it wasn't a matter of they "couldn't" do it.

 

[JanaDee]

The only solution I can think of is to raise prices. Raise ticket prices, hotel prices, food prices. Something, in order to increase profit margins and reduce attendance. Without access to their data, it's hard to say where would be best, but it might be possible to make larger overall profits on fewer customers. If I owned a business and people were clammering to use my product and I didn't have enough capacity and couldn't add capacity quickly, that's what I would do.

Ticket prices, hotel prices and food prices are raised every single year.

 

[tamhugh]

ETA: After seeing those pictures, I understand a bit more how standby for Star Tours reached 100 mins today. I have *never* seen it so long. We rode back to back on both of our trips last year (sometimes 3-4 times in a row - most SB!), even during spring break. But with the FP+ line as long as the twitter pic showed, the ratio of FP+ guests to SB guests being put on the ride would have been way out of whack, causing the ridiculously long SB line.

We were there this week last year for the Princess and will be arriving again tomorrow. We waited 5 minutes in line for Star Tours on standby. BTMR had a wait of about 10 minutes with a FP-.

We also spent a few days in the World in November. We go frequently and tend to chat with the CMs. On that trip, 3 different CMs complained about the system and how much they disliked it and it was making them not enjoy their jobs. We did not use the MBs that trip but will be using them this time as AP holders. My SIL and I spent 6 hours on the phone trying to get them straightened out and several of the people we talked to were downright rude. We did have a few very helpful, pleasant CMs, but overall, it has been a bad experience for us so far. This trip will determine whether we will renew our APs. Right now, I would say it will be a no.

 

[nfceagles]

Disney is already raising prices every year.

As for the "couldn't add capacity" - they could have. They chose to go a different route before adding capacity. Their right, of course, but it wasn't a matter of they "couldn't" do it.

I don't disagree. They could have, but they didn't, and they don't have a time machine to go back now and change things. They can't increase capacity quickly now.

Yes, they raise prices every year and yet they still see record numbers of customers coming through the gates. If I were the business owner of this situation, I would raise prices MORE. I'm not saying it will make people happy, just that at this point they've painted themselves into a corner and don't have may other options. They can't add capacity right away, reducing FP+ to 2/day would be a mess given how upset people already are about 3/day, and they don't seem able to support the 3/day they're giving now.

 

[Love Tink]

Yes, they raise prices every year and yet they still see record numbers of customers coming through the gates. If I were the business owner of this situation, I would raise prices MORE. I'm not saying it will make people happy, just that at this point they've painted themselves into a corner and don't have may other options. They can't add capacity right away, reducing FP+ to 2/day would be a mess given how upset people already are about 3/day, and they don't seem able to support the 3/day they're giving now.

I don't know how much more they could push it. They're already charging almost $100 for a one-day, one-park ticket, have thousands of resort rooms that cost between $500 and $1,000 a night, and charge $11 for a fast-food hamburger.

Their annual passes start at more than $600 (Universal's start at $200 - although that pass includes block out dates).

It's already truly ridiculous, if you think about it. I would posit that they've already tried this method of crowd control - we're all experiencing it already.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

DH's access card for work is RFID. He just stands backwards to the sensor at the door (card in his wallet) and it opens. The first time he did it, it took me a second to figure out what he was doing until the door beeped.

Yep - pretty standard in America today. This would correct most of the delays in FP+ queues. Hope that Disney has noticed this low hanging fruit. Too easy to correct to ignore, IMO.

 

[JanaDee]

Yep - pretty standard in America today. This would correct most of the delays in FP+ queues. Hope that Disney has noticed this low hanging fruit. Too easy to correct to ignore, IMO.

I agree. Not having to exactly line up the band to the mickey on the scanner would help alleviate a lot of the congestion at the entrance (formerly known as turnstiles lol) and the FP+ checkpoints.

 

[Lucia_27]

I was surprised to see long FP return lines for BTMRR and Buzz, but they moved really quickly. On BTMRR it took us 5 minutes from entering the FP line to boarding, while the SB line was 40 minutes.

 

[clsteve]

Yep - pretty standard in America today. This would correct most of the delays in FP+ queues. Hope that Disney has noticed this low hanging fruit. Too easy to correct to ignore, IMO.

It would seem like it, but that's not how this system works. It's dynamic- they have to continually query the database to make sure you have access, since you can make changes to your FP reservations at any time. And, they have to let the system know once you've completed the ride, so your account can be debited.

In the RFID door scenario, they can keep that static, since there 're very few changes to access and then, only propagate the small handful of entry changes each day.

Huge difference in complexity and performance.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

It would seem like it, but that's not how this system works. It's dynamic- they have to continually query the database to make sure you have access, since you can make changes to your FP reservations at any time. And, they have to let the system know once you've completed the ride, so your account can be debited.

In the RFID door scenario, they can keep that static, since there 're very few changes to access and then, only propagate the small handful of entry changes each day.

Huge difference in complexity and performance.

The problem is not in the time it takes to connect to the database - the problem is the crazy way that you have to contort your arm/wrist to get the scanner to read the RFID chip. That is what would be easy to correct. Ease of "connection" and recognition would be a huge step forward.

 

[clsteve]

The problem is not in the time it takes to connect to the database - the problem is the crazy way that you have to contort your arm/wrist to get the scanner to read the RFID chip. That is what would be easy to correct. Ease of "connection" and recognition would be a huge step forward.

Easy how? re-install a whole new set of Mickeys for every size and shape? Increasing the range of the RFID won't work- it would just start recognizing every MB within 10 feet, get confused and shut down. That's why they set it up like this in the first place and everyone has to contort. If they'd stuck with cards, you'd be on to something, but they didn't. Couple that with the complexity and lag time on the back-end, and we are where we are.....

 

[Shaden]

2. The new system is more convenient, all you need is a smart phone or have setup your reservations before leavin...in past you either had someone run across the park or come back...I would do a fast pass maybe once a day if that...with the new system, I would be doing the max since I dont have to run or come back to a ride at a later time. So you are having more people than the regular fast pass hitting this thing.

I seriously doubt that Disney would leave the FP+ lines at 30+limit wait and "call it a day". They are still testing, fine tuning and improving the system. It would be an epic fail if the system doesnt diminish the wait times, this will NOT happen, I guarantee it.

The first is one of the biggest and most repeated fallacies regarding Legacy FP, you DID NOT HAVE TO RUN .... we toured the parks casually, still pulled 6+ FPs in a day, without having a runner.

The later is a worry, I have no doubt they don't want those long lines either .... but what is the solution ??? Few Fastpasses would seem the most likely ....