Any new family hotels?

[rantnnravin]

all the other everyday garbage we get inundated with, it just isn’t as magical or as easy to WOW. That is NOT to say that they still can’t WOW us. It just takes a lot more imagination and money... snip... If we truly want to be Wowed then it would take something completely new. Something outside of a theme park ride.... I would rather Disney do something outside the box. Figuratively and physically. Do I think they should abandon the parks? NO. Should they put more money into them? YES. Should they come up with new attractions? Definitely. But they should come up with something completely different unrelated to the parks. What could that be? The only man that I know who could definitely answer that would be uncle Walt.

why should it be unrelated to the parks?
and Walt created a legacy in that he taught people how to DREAM BIG. There are plenty of imaginative, innovative, industrious individuals out there.
geez...if Steve Jobs had listened to the sharp-pencil guys at IBM who insisted that "regular people don't want or need a 'personal computer'", where would we all be now?
The bean-counters are good at bean-counting, we need them. But they need to loosen the purse strings so that the imagineers can create something the public doesn't know they want or need yet,
ala Disneyland and the PC.
Good business is in creating demand, not chasing after it. Bean-counters chase, innovators CREATE.

 

[minnie61650]

........What does the Big-Wheel Inn offer that i can't get a mile down the road?
Superior transportation? - no that's not it . Superior service? - nope. A quiet room to sleep in?- no dice either. (can you say industrial strength toilets, anyone?)

just because "everyone else is doing it" doesn't mean you should.

Well, I guess I am in the minority because I happen to see the Big Wheel Inn as a fun, whimsical and exciting place to stay.

I will agree that the rooms themselves are a typical standard "motel type" room but so are the rooms at a mod.

The rooms at the deluxe's are typical standard hotel rooms.

It is the themeing of the resorts that makes Disney special and I think when Disney decided to make more affordable rooms for families they were thinking of making these resorts fun and whimsical for children and for the young at heart.

I would love it if Disney would build a deluxe resort that featured the Fab 5 around the grounds. (*note not the huge icons but the smaller statues like these:

*Photos from allearsnet

I would stay there in an instant if the Fab 5 were a big part of the resort.

BTW

I am also big fan of the Swan and Dolphin resorts.

I think they are very whimsical and lots of fun but then I know and understand the theme and story behind the design of those hotels.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with theme here is the story behind the Swan and Dolphin.

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?p=17671231#post17671231

Have fun at Disney!

 

[shanomi4]

why should it be unrelated to the parks?
and Walt created a legacy in that he taught people how to DREAM BIG.

Wouldn't doing something new outside of the park be "DREAMING BIG"? How is coming up with another attraction "dreaming big"?

There are plenty of imaginative, innovative, industrious individuals out there.

Back when Disney first started he was a pioneer. The "imaginative, innovative, industrious individuals" were not being hired by Universal, Six flags, Sea-world and the like. Now all of the above mentioned are competeing to have these "individuals" to work "dream" for them!

if Steve Jobs had listened to the sharp-pencil guys at IBM who insisted that "regular people don't want or need a 'personal computer'", where would we all be now?

Exactly!! You get my point. They need to do something that has never been done before. That is what disney needs. Not another ride/attraction. Like I said they should add new stuff.....but to be "it" again, meaning top of the game, they need to do something completely new and BIG. See what I am saying??

 

[rantnnravin]

Back when Disney first started he was a pioneer. The "imaginative, innovative, industrious individuals" were not being hired by Universal, Six flags, Sea-world and the like. Now all of the above mentioned are competeing to have these "individuals" to work "dream" for them!

that's because Disney's sharp-pencil guys fired them all in the name of the cost-cutting, bottom-line, "2% rise in profit this quarter" mentality.

A new attraction CAN be innovative. It's up to the dreamer's to make that a reality. The "Living Seas with Nemo" (that they closed down the aquarium for over a year to produce) is nothing but a black-light carnival ride. NOTHING innovative except for the last 15 seconds because that's all the budget would allow. "Imagine" if they had allowed the DREAMERS to do it right!
For what they did, they should've just left the aquarium the way it was, instead of creating a cheesy carny ride. The queue was better-conceived.

Unfortunately, Disney is chasing after what the other guy has done. Why is it that Great Wolf and Nick Hotels came up with indoor year-round water park instead of Disney? NOOOW, disney is "going after" that market.
People are renting suites for their families, so noooow disney is going after that market. People want a high-end experience, so nooow disney goes after that market. Instead of creating the demand and convincing people that they needed this, they just didn't know it yet.

But that's what Disney USED TO do. Walt's dream was to buy enough land so that all of the innovation could take place at the site of the Florida Project. Why? Becuase it truly can become it's own little world, AWAY from REAL life.
If i take the sardine-packed M34 to work everyday, why in all of God's creation would i want to do that on vacation??
If i can go to Toys R Us Plaza at Times Square and ride some carny rides and shop, why spend $5,000-$10,000 to go to WDW to do the same thing?
Or, why pay Disney a premium to do it in my own back yard? I want to GET AWAY from my own back yard. (literally and figuratively)

 

[rantnnravin]

Well, I guess I am in the minority because I happen to see the Big Wheel Inn as a fun, whimsical and exciting place to stay.
I will agree that the rooms themselves are a typical standard "motel type" room but so are the rooms at a mod.
The rooms at the deluxe's are typical standard hotel rooms.
It is the themeing of the resorts that makes Disney special and I think when Disney decided to make more affordable rooms for families they were thinking of making these resorts fun and whimsical for children and for the young at heart.
I would love it if Disney would build a deluxe resort that featured the Fab 5 around the grounds. (*note not the huge icons but the smaller statues like these:

Yes the DECORATIONS are fun and whimsical, but what kept them from developing fun and whimsical architecture and interior design?
that's the difference.


oh, and as far as the swolphin "theming": sorry Mr. Graves, but if you have to explain your design that much, then it's not speaking for itself.

 

[shanomi4]

that's because Disney's sharp-pencil guys fired them all in the name of the cost-cutting, bottom-line, "2% rise in profit this quarter" mentality.

A new attraction CAN be innovative. It's up to the dreamer's to make that a reality. The "Living Seas with Nemo" (that they closed down the aquarium for over a year to produce) is nothing but a black-light carnival ride. NOTHING innovative except for the last 15 seconds because that's all the budget would allow. "Imagine" if they had allowed the DREAMERS to do it right!
For what they did, they should've just left the aquarium the way it was, instead of creating a cheesy carny ride. The queue was better-conceived.

Unfortunately, Disney is chasing after what the other guy has done. Why is it that Great Wolf and Nick Hotels came up with indoor year-round water park instead of Disney? NOOOW, disney is "going after" that market.
People are renting suites for their families, so noooow disney is going after that market. People want a high-end experience, so nooow disney goes after that market. Instead of creating the demand and convincing people that they needed this, they just didn't know it yet.

But that's what Disney USED TO do. Walt's dream was to buy enough land so that all of the innovation could take place at the site of the Florida Project. Why? Becuase it truly can become it's own little world, AWAY from REAL life.
If i take the sardine-packed M34 to work everyday, why in all of God's creation would i want to do that on vacation??
If i can go to Toys R Us Plaza at Times Square and ride some carny rides and shop, why spend $5,000-$10,000 to go to WDW to do the same thing?
Or, why pay Disney a premium to do it in my own back yard? I want to GET AWAY from my own back yard. (literally and figuratively)

No doubt some great points!!
My feeling is that in this day in age, it is far harder to dream. To many others dreaming too. Not a problem in the 50's. Even harder to dream big when you have stock holders to keep happy. There is a happy balance between dreamers and bean counters. Does Disney have that balance? I think not. But, I do agree that the parks are just that..parks that have matured. In order to really bring in the big bucks, they need to do something innovative. Another ride will be just that..another ride. Sure they will get a spike in attendance if they so build a truly unique attraction. But how long before the guys down the street top that?
I will stick to what I said....the parks is not where Disney needs to look. AK is a great example. Just another park. Just because they feel that the parks are mature, does not excuse the fact that they are not dreaming and inventing.

If it were me.....I would build on Epcot. Make Epcot what Walt had envisioned. Now you have something far different then, Bob down the street.

 

[rantnnravin]

If it were me.....I would build on Epcot. Make Epcot what Walt had envisioned. Now you have something far different then, Bob down the street.

as long as it's not a room full of video games, but instead, a true hall of "Innoventions" there's so much potential for Epcot, but it requires the investment to continue evolving.
Evolution is what keeps families coming back. They see something spectacular EVERY time they come.
Why can't that translate to tomorrowland at the MK? Or (dare i say it?) a beastly kingdom at AK or an interactive "movie making" experience at MGM?
why are MGM and AK ho-hum to some? because they are HALF-FINISHED - the bean-counters closed the checkbooks!
MK is dangerously close to becoming stagnant - especially if they keep shuttering attractions and unique shops, ruining classics with annoying birds, and opening things like Stitch.

 

[minnie61650]

If it were me.....I would build on Epcot. Make Epcot what Walt had envisioned. Now you have something far different then, Bob down the street.

I agree I would have loved to see the Environmental Community (and community was a carefully chosen word) of Tomorrow that Walt envisioned come to life instead of just another theme park.

EPCOT as Walt envisioned it.........

Excerpts

From Walt's Last Film about EPCOT

http://www.waltopia.com/last_film.html


"Everything in EPCOT will be dedicated to the happiness of the people who live, work and play here and those that come here from around the world to visit our living showcase.".............

EPCOT's dynamic urban center will offer the excitement and variety of activities found only in the metropolitan cities. Cultural, social, business and entertainment.

Among its major features will be a cosmopolitan hotel and convention center towering 30 or more stories. Shopping areas where stores and whole streets recreate the character and adventure of places around the world............

EPCOT's city center

But most important, this entire 50 acres of city streets and buildings will be completely enclosed.

In this kind of controlled environment, shoppers, theatergoers, and people just out for a stroll will enjoy ideal weather conditions protected day and night from rain, heat and cold and humidity.

Here the pedestrian will be king free to walk and browse without fear of motorized vehicles. Only electric powered vehicles will travel above the streets of EPCOT's central city...................

----------------------------------------------------------------
WOW!

The world lost a great envisionary the day Walt died.

 

[shanomi4]

Don't even mention Stitch....yuck. Not good at all.
Glad to see you are onboard with the Epcot thing. I am sure had Walt been there for Epcot it would be far far far different then what it is today!

 

[minnie61650]

as long as it's not a room full of video games, but instead, a true hall of "Innoventions" there's so much potential for Epcot, but it requires the investment to continue evolving.
Evolution is what keeps families coming back. They see something spectacular EVERY time they come.
Why can't that translate to tomorrowland at the MK? Or (dare i say it?) a beastly kingdom at AK or an interactive "movie making" experience at MGM?
why are MGM and AK ho-hum to some? because they are HALF-FINISHED - the bean-counters closed the checkbooks!
MK is dangerously close to becoming stagnant - especially if they keep shuttering attractions and unique shops, ruining classics with annoying birds, and opening things like Stitch.

I agree.

I would love it if Disney would add Beastlie Kingdomme to AK.

Before AK was built one of the lands was supposed to be Beastlie Kingdomme. Because of budget cuts Disney delayed the building of Beastly Kingdomme and built Camp Mickey and Minnie and put the show Lion King in that area to keep the area ready for Beastlie Kingdom.
My understanding is that because Lion King and Camp Mickey and Minnie are so well liked that Disney scraped the whole idea of Beastlie Kingdomme.
They really had some great ideas on the drawing board and many people would like to see them become reality but I fear the chances of that happening are slim.
We can always hope.

Here is an article about some Disney attractions that were designed but never built. The Dragon Tower attraction was originally slated for Beastlie Kingdomme land planned for Disney's Animal Kingdom park in Florida. This article gives one a virtual walk-through of Beastlie Kingdomme and the ride Dragon Tower.
http://www.mouseplanet.com/mark/mg041027.htm

 

[rantnnravin]

because Lion King and Camp Mickey and Minnie are so well liked that Disney scraped the whole idea of Beastlie Kingdomme.

gotta love that PR spin!

 

[shanomi4]

It could or at least could of been done. They have a huge work force that Disney could of used as the founding fathers of the community. It would of been a win win. A) the employees could have a nice, stable place to live close to work, while at the same time adding to a entirely different way of life. B) Disney would have "gerbils" so to speak as well as income coming back from their employees. I had a rental property. For 1 year I rented the house to one of my employees. It was great for both of us. Now, I am not saying that all the employees should or even would want to live there, but I am sure they could of gotten a lot of them to do it. A good base to start with!!

 

[YoHo]

Wow, I better call Google and The Woz and the guys that built Space Ship 1, J.K. Rowling, Peter Jackson, Pixar and every other innovative dreamer from the last twenty years and tell them to stop dreaming. It's too hard to excite the jaded masses.


Disney is a multibillion dollar entertainment conglomerate whose reason for existance is to create experiences that excite the imagination. Saying it's too hard in this day and age to truely excite people is ridiculous and laughable.
People do it all the time. People whose first goal isn't their golden parachute or their "industry clout."

But by all means, continue to make excuses for why Disney can't be what it used to be, why we should come to expect Mission: Space to have it's budget slashed and any actual learning removed and The Seas to get nothing innovative, but a weak Nemo overlay. How dare we expect more from them?


Of course, Even Disney sneaks one through. Soarin Over California is really amayzing. Too bad they couldn't afford to finish of the theming.
Oh and lets not forget Indy in 1996. Didn't have any problems wowing guests. Still doesn't have any problems wowing guests. And that's to say nothing of Spiderman, it's protege' over at Universal. Even Pirates and Haunted Mansion still spark the imagination after 40 years.

 

[YoHo]

Also, we just recently talked about Epcot in a couple other threads. WDW and E.P.C.O.T. Center are more like what Walt wanted then you understand. E.P.C.O.T. was never supposed to be a normal community. It was always suppose to be a resort community. Disney employees would make up the bulk of the permanent residents and other companies would have employees rotate in. With the exception of the outside companies, Walt Disney World by say 1985 had almost every other aspect of the plan. Obviously not the city itself, but the innovation, the permanent residence. The entertainment, the shopping.

Yes, the Disney Company was too scared after Walt's Death to make that level of commitment, but they made some level of commitment. After Walt's family lost control, the entire idea died completely.

 

[shanomi4]

Wow, I better call Google and The Woz and the guys that built Space Ship 1, J.K. Rowling, Peter Jackson, Pixar and every other innovative dreamer from the last twenty years and tell them to stop dreaming. It's too hard to excite the jaded masses.


Disney is a multibillion dollar entertainment conglomerate whose reason for existance is to create experiences that excite the imagination. Saying it's too hard in this day and age to truely excite people is ridiculous and laughable.
People do it all the time. People whose first goal isn't their golden parachute or their "industry clout."

But by all means, continue to make excuses for why Disney can't be what it used to be, why we should come to expect Mission: Space to have it's budget slashed and any actual learning removed and The Seas to get nothing innovative, but a weak Nemo overlay. How dare we expect more from them?


Of course, Even Disney sneaks one through. Soarin Over California is really amayzing. Too bad they couldn't afford to finish of the theming.
Oh and lets not forget Indy in 1996. Didn't have any problems wowing guests. Still doesn't have any problems wowing guests. And that's to say nothing of Spiderman, it's protege' over at Universal. Even Pirates and Haunted Mansion still spark the imagination after 40 years.

Yoho...are you sipping the old rum? never said it was impossible. in fact it is very possible. Just more difficult. And with imagineers being enticed over to Universal and the like it becomes even more difficult. When you are the only cat in town, you product stands out. Now we have more cats to play with. Thus my reasoning they need to do something completely different. But I am sure you will argue that.

 

[shanomi4]

Even if they built Beastlie Kingdomme would that be so amazing? I don't think so. Would i like it...yea, but all in all you still have just another atraction that you will wait hours to see and walk away saying "is that all?"

 

[EUROPACL]

And with imagineers being enticed over to Universal and the like it becomes even more difficult. :

"Enticed" that is not what happened at all.

 

[minnie61650]

Even if they built Beastlie Kingdomme would that be so amazing? I don't think so. Would i like it...yea, but all in all you still have just another atraction that you will wait hours to see and walk away saying "is that all?"

Beastlie Kingdomme may in itself not be so amazing (I do think the Dragon coaster would have amazed many if it had been built at the same time AK opened) but it seems a lot of good ideas have been scraped in the name of saving money.


EPCOT the community--
Beastlie Kingdomme---

And the resorts that Disney just dropped to name a few.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Resorts that were dropped-

Asian Resort Hotel
Venetian Resort
Persian Resort



Before the MK was even built plans were in place for 4 hotels to be on the monorail line.The Grand Floridian hotel is on the land that was set aside and dedicated to be the "Future" Asian Resort Hotel (A). The "Future"
Venetian (B) Resort was going to located between the Poly (5) and the Contemporary (8). A fifth hotel was going to build on a monorail spur which ended at the "Future" Persian Resort (C). That resort would be located just to east of the Mk and North of the Contemorary and would built with much of the hotel being on /over the water of Bay Lake. So even though the GF was not built until 18 years later a hotel was planned for that area at the same time the monorail was planned.

I got this picture and my info from my"The story of Walt Disney World"
Commemory Edition Book 1971.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I agree that Disney needs to put more money and innovation into it's attractions and theme parks -- it seems that lately Disney is more concered with the cost of an attraction instead of it's WOW factor.

I also agree there are other ways that Disney could be innovative in the future if they bought back the imagineers and let them imagine the way Walt let them when he first formed the imagineer team.

JMHO

 

[YoHo]

Yoho...are you sipping the old rum? never said it was impossible. in fact it is very possible. Just more difficult. And with imagineers being enticed over to Universal and the like it becomes even more difficult. When you are the only cat in town, you product stands out. Now we have more cats to play with. Thus my reasoning they need to do something completely different. But I am sure you will argue that.

Given the shear amount of money Disney has now versus what they had to beg and borrow in the old days, I'd say your nuts to think it's harder.

Human beings are still the same people and there are still parts of our world that excite the imagination.

And you keep trying to insinuate that Disney has a competitor, that others do what they traditionally have done that is so unique. You are so unequivocably wrong that I'm sitting here laughing. I asked you before and I'll ask you again. Who? Who else does what they do with the park? NOBODY, that's who.

Which conversly is why they've been so cheap. A little competition would envigorate things. For a while there when IOA first opened up, it looked like Disney would have to spend a little money, but then IOA floundered, because it isn't WDW. It doesn't embody EPCOT, there is no Pirates, no HM.

If anything, Disney has stopped being Disney and become another Universal Studios where every ride is riding the movies. Maybe, if they went back to their old model, They'd be different and they would wow people again.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Even if they built Beastlie Kingdomme would that be so amazing? I don't think so. Would i like it...yea, but all in all you still have just another atraction that you will wait hours to see and walk away saying "is that all?"

It could be amazing Why don't you think so?

Look at how amazing Everest turned out.