Any new family hotels?

[YoHo]

Yes, thanks for understanding. I will throw a little gas on the fire and state that while AKL represents a quantum leap up from the Values, it still has it's problems. It's a product of a scared division unwilling or not allowed to truely create a unique experience. It's WL, but with different decorations.

There's nothing wrong with that. It's an awesome resort, but it's a coment more on what could have been.


Also, to echo Euro, it seems like there's been a major influx over the past month or 2.

 

[YoHo]

Darn it....I don't get it!! I must be a fool. So sorry that we/I do not get your perspective. I guess you are one of those "I am right and you are wrong posters"

More like I've done research to form my opinion and you haven't posters, but potato potahto.

 

[shanomi4]

More like I've done research to form my opinion and you haven't posters, but potato potahto.

Enlighten me.

 

[minnie61650]

....... When you look at a resort like AKL or WL, you can see the imagination that must have took place in order to design it, not so with the values. When I look at the values I imagine a bunch of bean counters sitting around a boardroom with Micheal Eisner trying to figure out how to pack more people into cheaper rooms, without spending big bucks to build it. The values aren't themed, they're decorated and take away the giant icons and few Disney decorations, and you have a chain motel that can be found anywhere. You can't say that about AKL or a few other Disney deluxe resorts. .......

I think the values are resorts with the unique idea and not the Deluxe resorts.

I have stayed at hotels all over and I have not found any of them more unique than Disney's values.

The Grand Floridian looks too much like the Hotel Del Coronado . It is almost a carbon copy --not too much imagineation used to design GF IMHO.

Hotel Del

Grand Floridian


The Poly looks like the Niki Kia in Kola, Hawaii

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a175/minnie61650/NikiKaiVillaplantation.jpg

Boardwalk reminds me of the Marriott Wentworth in NH

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a175/minnie61650/Merriotwentworthbythesea.jpg

Beach and Yacht Club remind me of the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island, Michigan

Whyoming has many Log Lodges that look very simular to WL-- nothing special there.

I will admit that the idea of the animals right outside to be viewed from your balcony at AKL was good idea and having the monorail run through the CR was very unique especially for the 1970's.

.......
I understand why some of you get heated over this and I appreciate it as a fellow Disney fan. The passion of some Disney fans are similar to Harley and die hard Corvette owners in some ways. They have a large base of fans that have a passion for the product, the product is a huge part of American culture, and the fans are critical of changes that don't benefit the product or the company that produces it. That's a good thing and if Disney is smart enough they will listen to it and take it in to consideration. Not everything is wine and roses at WDW and some directions the company takes worries me at times. Look no further than the Year of a Million dreams and the cheap looking banners that hang everywhere. It looks like it was done quickly and almost as a after thought. I appreciate Disney giving extra perks for their guests, but they should do this all the time without the cheap looking promotion. Families spend some big, major bucks to go to WDW and that can't be dismissed and they deserve things done correctly and not on the cheap. I want WDW and Disneyland to be around for generations to come and not be a shell of their former glory, but to be at the top of their game and unique. That's why I understand the snow globe and chicken strips references.

I agree with most of what you said above.

 

[EUROPACL]

Enlighten me.

Might as well ask him to convert your religion or change your political party while he is at it. I can count on one hand the people that have jumped sides over the years or at least admitted to it.

 

[disneyfan67]

My my my.....
AKL $215 a night
RITZ $209 a night
POP $82 a night
The prices above are all for the same night! You can't take a price quote from a specific time period and then compare that quote to a quote that arrived in your email for a sale at the Ritz!!

You get what you pay for. You want it to scream Disney and imagineers you will pay for it. If you want to be at Disney, have some Disney flavor, and not spend a fortune...Disney has offered the Value resorts. What sense would it make for Disney to offer value resorts at value rates but have the same Disney feel as deluxe accommodations? Common sense. But what do I know, I still live with mom!!

Just a little FYI. the prices I got were for the same time period around December. I sign up for various deals from many hotels by just registering on their official site. I have gotten some spectacular deals on some very nice Vegas resorts for example. It pays to do your homework and keep a eye out. So far to date I have only gotten 2 post cards from Disney with pin codes and they were deals for value resorts and for times I wasn't able to go. I won't pay more than 50 bucks or so for a value because of the small room size and I would need two rooms for my family of 4 to be halfway comfortable. $109 A NIGHT isn't my idea of a value and if I can't stay in a deluxe like the Poly with my AAA rate or discounted pin code, then there's plenty of deals to be had. The bus service at Disney can be a crap shoot at times, so if I went the value route, I would get a car, if I have to rent a car then I better look around for some deals. It's a Catch 22 situation.


When I go to WDW, I don't want to drive and I want to leave the real world behind for a little while. Riding a crowded bus, having to stand all the way so I can get back to my two double beds and 260 sq feet room, isn't my idea of escaping reality. That's why I love the monrail and the boat service the Poly has. I'm not being critical of the values because I like the Polynesian and deluxe's, but how Disney built them on the cheap and tries to make them something their not. In all fairness, they're motels with decorations, not something unique that imagineers came up with and it shows. Lower the price down to an acceptable level with out the help of pin codes and I'll reconsider it. I'm not trying to have a deluxe stay at value prices, but I'm not going to brainwashed into thinking that the values are a good deal at 109 a night because it was built by Disney.

You should sign up for the monthly Mouse Savers newsletter that gets emailed in the middle of the month. Mary sometimes has great unpublished deals in that newsletter and some of the hotels are on property inside the main gate. If Disney keeps raising their resort rates, that $170 something a night the Ritz offered me, might come in handy.

 

[shanomi4]

Might as well ask him to convert your religion or change your political party while he is at it. I can count on one hand the people that have jumped sides over the years or at least admitted to it.

Don't believe in God or other myths, so no worry about religion. As far as my beliefs about Disney...... I think Disney is over priced ...not kept up to date ...showing some wear ....not as impressive as it once was.....not the icon it once was....and could use some more imagination. I think POP is not where I will ever spend my money ever again. After touring other resorts (deluxe) I wouldn't spend my money there either. Could I do it better? SURE in a heart beat!! Would I like my plan/design better? Heck yea! Would I stay if I had my design and options? Sign me up!! But...would it make money?

 

[Barbers2005]

I agree (somewhat) with the previous poster who said the deluxe resorts show a lack of originality. It doesn't bother me so much that hotel designs have been borrowed from other places, because that helps give a feeling of authenticity. What irks me is that too many of the resorts have the same theme. There are four deluxes with the "turn of the century New England resort" theme. The GF misses that category by only the narrowest of margins (just substitute "Florida" for "New England"). We get it that turn of the century resorts were neat-o, but please come up with something new. With so many places and cultures to choose from, why keep going back to the same old thing?

 

[shanomi4]

Fact:
Disney late 70's had no competition. Result- Disney was amazing as it was the only place of its kind.
Disney 00's has lots of competition. Result- Disney isn't so amazing after all.

When you are the only guy in town you will look pretty amazing. Once a few other guys come around..you don't have that same magical/amazing appeal!

 

[disneyfan67]

Darn it....I don't get it!! I must be a fool. So sorry that we/I do not get your perspective. I guess you are one of those "I am right and you are wrong posters"

I should add, If I were a stock holder, I would be happy to hear that "bean counters" were involved in the resorts design phase.

Just remember this. Every accountant and business person told Walt Disney he was insane for tying to build Disneyland and it would lead to his financial downfall and destroy his studios. I'm glad he didn't listen to them and had the courage and the tenacity to push forward. I couldn't imagine America without Disneyland and WDW and the unique experience they have provided for millions. Wall Street and the bean counters are famous for thinking only of pure profit and the bottom line. Disney's California Adventure is living proof to that and what building something on the cheap will do. Disney has a built in fan base and if Disney builds something unique, they will reward you by coming in droves. All we ask for is quality, imagination, and proper upkeep of it, when they build something. In return we gladly hand over large amounts of our hard earned cash and are glad we did it.

 

[shanomi4]

the unique experience they have provided for millions. .

I guess I missed that unique experience.

 

[shanomi4]

Just remember this. Every accountant and business person told Walt Disney he was insane for tying to build Disneyland and it would lead to his financial downfall and destroy his studios. I'm glad he didn't listen to them and had the courage and the tenacity to push forward. it.

Cute story. But I am sure he just didn't go at it without advisors and bean counters.

 

[disneyfan67]

I guess I missed that unique experience.

You want to come here to this board and be disrespectful toward others who have done nothing to you, fine. Don't expect a nice response from others or a response at all in some cases. I don't understand your comment above and I was stating that if Walt Disney had of never built his first theme park, millions upon millions of people would have missed out on a great experience. Disneyland was the first true theme park after all and laid the groundwork for all others. I'm glad I grew up in a country like America where a place like Disneyland and WDW exists. It made being an American even a better experience than it it already was and enriched it, IMO.

 

[DC7800]

The Poly looks like the Niki Kia in Kola, Hawaii.

That's the idea - the Polynesian (like Disney's other Deluxe and moderate resorts) is supposed to transport you to a different time and place. Much like the lands in the Magic Kingdom take you from the old west (Frontierland) to the future (Tomorrowland), Disney's original resorts took you to Hawaii or the south Pacific (Polynesian), future (Contemporary), and frontier (Fort Wilderness). That there would be a 'real world' inspiration (or counterpart) for these resorts is not a coincidence. The Wilderness Lodge ought to look a great deal like a lodge from the Pacific Northwest (region) if Disney's designers did their jobs properly. Same for the Boardwalk, Yacht & Beach, and even the moderates such as Port Orleans French Quarter (obvious) and Coronado Springs (southwest).

Had the original plans for the Venetian and Persian resorts (on the Seven Seas Lagoon) been constructed, the resorts would have seemed far more exotic (and unique) than a resort modeled upon a New England yachting club, though it remains a perfectly legitimate concept (theme) for a resort.

But the value resorts do none of these things. Sure, they're unique all right - no style of architecture, region of the world, time period, or other inspiration exists for a theme which proclaims "Do the Funcky Chicken". Which is exactly the problem - the value resorts aren't themed at all - they're decorated.

That doesn't mean people cannot stay there and have the vacation of their dreams. It doesn't mean kids don't love the huge Buzz Lightyear and Woody icons. It certainly does not mean people don't like the price - the primary reason to stay there. But it does mean that the resorts are not up to Disney's own (traditional) standards.

 

[minnie61650]

Cute story. But I am sure he just didn't go at it without advisors and bean counters.

One name comes to mind-- his brother Roy -- he was the banker that helped Walt make Disneyland work.

 

[disneyfan67]

Cute story. But I am sure he just didn't go at it without advisors and bean counters.

Not a cute story, but fact and he even sold his vacation home at the Smoke Tree Ranch and cashed in his life insurance to make it happen. He was able to convince multiple sponsors and a TV network to help finance it. One of the reasons the wonderful world of Disney was on TV and Disneyland was shown to kids in the 50's and 60's on a weekly basis. There's plenty of books and information to back up what I say. If you want to be a troll, fine, at least be an educated one if you're going to come here.

 

[YoHo]

I guess I missed that unique experience.

So why are YOU posting here?


Also, I'd like you to name one competitor in Disney's class that isn't like and entire city?

Universal is nothing like WDW.

 

[MasterShake]

I've been on this board for over a year now so I'm not sure that I can be called a "New Fern". I've been visiting Disney World/Disneyland since I was 5 and I am now 29 years old. I have read a lot of articles/books/threads about Disney, but I do not claim to be an all knowing Disney expert.

I tend to disagree a lot with AV, YoHo, and Euro. Some of our conversations have been a little snarky, but I do not think poorly of them. They all seem to be intelligent people that know a lot about Disney.

I have agreed with some of thier points. They have brought up several good issues and Disney can (of course) be a better company. I will not deny that Disney sometimes makes decisions for the bottom line that are not in the best interest of the consumer.

However, (and I mean no offense) you guys focus almost entirely on the negative. I have seen post after post of nothing but criticism. I see your name and I know that you will have something negative to say. Honestly I don't think it matters what Disney does, in your minds it will be negative. I have seen several posts where you guys exaggerate the issue (Sometimes jokingly/ sometimes not) to make it sound worse. Some of you have accused several others on these boards as working for Disney, when sometimes I wonder if some of you work for Universal.

More like I've done research to form my opinion and you haven't posters, but potato potahto.

Just because someone disagrees with your point of view, doesn't mean that they aren't informed.

Back to the topic;

Honestly I do not think that the value resorts are a bad deal. I brought up a search on Hotels.com for Orlando area and the values are rated at 2.5 stars. On there the cheapest 2.5 star hotel was $40 a night (Oct) and some 2.5 star hotels were well over $100 (Oct) a night. Disney Value was running for about $82 a night (Oct). I selected 2 adults and 1 child occupancy for all of these hotels.

The amenities listed on the site were almost identical for all of the Hotels (probably a standard requirement for a similar rating). I didn't see a room size, but from the pictures they all seemed comparable in size. If you look at the range in prices I would say that Disney is probably slightly above average in price. If you averaged the prices it seems like it would come out in the high 60's to low 70's. Disney probably runs about $10-$20dollars more a night.

Now, onsite perks may not interest some, but they are something to consider when choosing a hotel. Disney Value has the benefit of location, free transportation (the bus can be crowded), and Extra Magic Hours (can also be crowded. Also, while it might not be everyone’s cup of tea, the theme-ing (large icons) can be fun for some people. If none of these perks interest you, you can save some money and stay off site. If are going to use one or more of these options then it may be worth it to stay at a value resort.

 

[raidermatt]

But...would it make money?

It did when Disney did it in the past. True, for a long time they poured everything they made back into creating more, which kept the company in a precarious position much of the time. But the public did respond with their wallets. It takes a committment to doing things differently than a "bean counter" says it needs to be done, and that takes some guts and some talent. But when done right, it most certainly makes money.

Disney late 70's had no competition. Result- Disney was amazing as it was the only place of its kind.
Disney 00's has lots of competition. Result- Disney isn't so amazing after all.

People took vacations in the 70's. There was plenty of competition.

And who, exactly, has copied Disney? Universal? Please. Six Flags? Come on. True, Disney isn't quite as amazing as it once was, but that's because they changed from trying to outdo the best, themselves, to trying to do enough to outdo the next guy. Instead of building a park next to Disneyland that was an effort to surpass it, they build a park designed to just be better than what others were doing (and in the eyes of many, failed even at that).

If Disney has lost its sense of wonder among the masses, its their own doing, not the market's.

Cute story. But I am sure he just didn't go at it without advisors and bean counters.

Very true, he didn't. But he also did not let them dictate to him what good entertainment was. Its not a black and situation. The point is that Disney allows the "bean counters" to have too much influence in content creation much of the time.

One name comes to mind-- his brother Roy -- he was the banker that helped Walt make Disneyland work.

Yes, he helped, and helped a lot. But the driving force of the company was the creative vision, not the financial analysis. Roy helped find ways to make Walt's vision work, but he didn't dictate the vision.

 

[DC7800]

What sense would it make for Disney to offer value resorts at value rates but have the same Disney feel as deluxe accommodations?

The theme ("story") and overall "feel' of a resort aren't the only distinctions between a value and deluxe Disney resort. Even if a value property looked more like a deluxe, there would still be amenities and other elements to account for the differing price levels: room service, location, interior corridors, valet parking, table-service restaurants, various recreation options, waterfront or landlocked, etc. If you want these amenities, be prepared to pay for them. If you are willing to do without a spa, for instance, then you can certainly save some money on accomodations. At WDW, any resort located where the Contemporary is (nearest the MK) would command a higher price than any resort located where the All-Stars are found.

The Caribbean Beach was the original "value" resort, but today does it look (and feel) more like a value or deluxe? In any event, offering a value accomodation does not require the use of oversized, sometimes tacky fiberglass icons. Disney can do better - and they used to.

A Super 8, Hampton Inn, and Hilton might have a vaguely similar look and feel in that they each offer a clean, comfortable room (some more than others, but you get the idea...). But there are major differences which account for the huge difference in price, even if all three properties exhibit the same architectural style.