All The New Developments

[preemiemama]

These were Fastpass+ entitlements? I can see them being because they are actually purchases.

Initially, there was some confusion about whether the PIN was required on all purchases or not - some seemed to have it, some didn't, but that seemed to be some sort of conversion lag. Everything seems to be requiring it now, at least when using a touchpoint. If the CM has to swipe the card still, it does not seem to be required.

Dining plan entitlements- not FP+. So they are, in a sense, still purchases.

It seemed to me to be a similar situation to what you are describing with the purchases initially. Some needed the PIN and some did not, and if the CM swiped the card we did not need it. My thoughts at the time were that they may have been changing the dining plan to require PINs as well.

 

[Eastern]

As long as they keep giving out those Surprise! Fastpasses for Carousel of Progress and the Stitch Ride, I'm good.

 

[doconeill]

Dining plan entitlements- not FP+. So they are, in a sense, still purchases.

It seemed to me to be a similar situation to what you are describing with the purchases initially. Some needed the PIN and some did not, and if the CM swiped the card we did not need it. My thoughts at the time were that they may have been changing the dining plan to require PINs as well.

Ah yes, I hadn't followed much about how it has changed how the dining plan is handled, but yes, it's following the same pattern.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I've been wanting to ask this in threads, but never got around to it. What other types of vacations are people going on that require zero advance planning?!
Seriously, for everyone who is upset about FP+ equaling over-the-top planning, what vacations can you take that don't require a similar level of planning?

Beyond the many other places that people have already mentioned (which I would agree with as well) - Disneyland.

DH and I decided to take a completely spontaneous trip to DL a few years ago. I think we decided the week before to go. The only planning we did in advance was to get a hotel room. We drove down (14+ hrs in one day, so no hotel needed along the way) got our tickets at the gate the night we arrived, and went into the parks the next morning. No ADRs, no plan for what park to be in on what day. We just showed up and went from park to park as we wanted.

It was a really great, fun, spontaneous vacation.

 

[preemiemama]

I was a little startled when the first QS required it- the CM seemed to be as well since it was the first one she had requiring a PIN! We both checked the receipt just to be sure we were not being charged for an item that should be included in the plan- and we weren't. It was purely for using the entitlement.

I thought at one point I had heard this was part of the plan- waiters and waitresses would have touchpoint devices to bring to the table to use with the magic bands? It would make sense, then, that they would transition that to PIN use next.

Anyone there now or just back that can give more recent feedback? I'm curious now to see if it is fully implemented yet...

 

[doconeill]

I was a little startled when the first QS required it- the CM seemed to be as well since it was the first one she had requiring a PIN! We both checked the receipt just to be sure we were not being charged for an item that should be included in the plan- and we weren't. It was purely for using the entitlement.

I thought at one point I had heard this was part of the plan- waiters and waitresses would have touchpoint devices to bring to the table to use with the magic bands? It would make sense, then, that they would transition that to PIN use next.

Anyone there now or just back that can give more recent feedback? I'm curious now to see if it is fully implemented yet...

Yes, TS locations are getting portable touchpoint pads for payments...I believe they are just starting to get out there, so no all have them yet.

 

[Simba77]

Yes, a lot of that is the same. But if you lost your KTTW card, you'd eventually know it, get the old one deactivated, and get a new one.

Same for Magicband, though, right? I mean, theoretically you'd notice you lost that before you might notice having lost your card.

But in theory, it is easier to get the IDs from an RFID device without your knowledge, and "duplicate" them into another RFID device.

I'd think that doing that with the "touch to pay" credit cards would be more in line with profitable criminal activity. If credit cards with RFID are all over the place, then Disney can't be at any further risk than those. And where really would cloning the Magicband get you? Park access? Is fraud really worth the risk to ride splash mountain a few times? Seems like people with RFID cloners and blank chips wouldn't be getting enough return on their investment just to potentially clone a Magicband that has a 1 day ticket left on it, or a ticket that probably expires in 3 days.

 

[doconeill]

Same for Magicband, though, right? I mean, theoretically you'd notice you lost that before you might notice having lost your card.

Maybe...depends on what you are used to. And if you wear it at all.

 

[Simba77]

Maybe...depends on what you are used to. And if you wear it at all.

But how is that any different than a KTTW card? The Magicband is bigger. That alone makes it easily as noticeable as being lost as a card. I'm not seeing how you're at a bigger risk of not realizing you're missing your band than you are of missing your card.

You have to use it for all the same things - you have to take it out just as often. But Magicbands are typically worn around your wrist, cards are most often in a pocket where they can slip out unnoticed.

I honestly don't see a difference. If anything, the size of the Magicband, coupled with the fact that it's going to be on 95% of everyone's wrists rather than in pockets or bags, makes it easier to notice that it's missing, not harder.

Plus, you have to take your card in and out of your bag/wallet/etc. The Magicband (again, for the vast majority of people) never gets detached from your person for a scan. This makes it less likely to be lost in a "fumble" as it's almost always physically attached to you. Cards end up slipping out of pockets on rollicking rides. Cards get accidentally misplaced in the wrong pocket, then fall out when you pull a kleenex or a park map out of your pocket or bag. I'm pretty convinced that less people are going to lose their Magicbands than their cards, and most people will notice their band has been lost quicker than they would notice a lost card. Again, talking averages here. Lost Magicbands will be less common than lost KTTW, and lost Magicbands will be sooner noticed as lost than KTTW - on the average, based on how most people stash KTTW vs. how they'll wear Magicband.

 

[doconeill]

But how is that any different that a KTTW card? The Magicband is bigger. That alone makes it easily as noticeable as being lost as a card. I'm not seeing how you're at a bigger risk of not realizing you're missing your band than you are of missing your card.

You have to use it for all the same things - you have to take it out just as often. But Magicbands are typically worn around your wrist, cards are most often in a pocket where they can slip out unnoticed.

I honestly don't see a difference. If anything, the size of the Magicband, along with the fact that it's going to be around 95% of everyone's wrists rather than in pockets or bags, makes it easier to notice that its missing, not harder.

I really don't get why you are arguing about losing a magicband vs. a card at all. It doesn't change the concerns. Like I said, the concern is NOT just in losing it, but in it possibly being duplicated, which does not require it to be out of your possession - UNLIKE the old cards. And it applies to BOTH the MagicBands AND the cards. Not everyone will get a MagicBand.

 

[Simba77]

I really don't get why you are arguing about losing a magicband vs. a card at all. It doesn't change the concerns. Like I said, the concern is NOT just in losing it, but in it possibly being duplicated, which does not require it to be out of your possession - UNLIKE the old cards. And it applies to BOTH the MagicBands AND the cards. Not everyone will get a MagicBand.

I never said it changes or removes the concerns! You brought it up as a concern as though losing your Magicband and not noticing that it's gone is a new development due to the implementation of Magicbands, or that losing your Magicband and not knowing it will suddenly be worse than it was with cards. Here's your quote that I've been refuting:

Yes, a lot of that is the same. But if you lost your KTTW card, you'd eventually know it, get the old one deactivated, and get a new one.

If anything, losing your ticket media will only get better with Magicbands due to their "always attached to you" status.

And also, as far as duplication, is duplication of RFID credit cards a widespread problem?

 

[waynesgirl]

As long as they keep giving out those Surprise! Fastpasses for Carousel of Progress and the Stitch Ride, I'm good.

I.LOVE.YOU.

 

[glammadiva]

Your post really sums all of this up IMO. Someone definitely needs to fix it.

I can think of a few. There are also slews of places that I've never been to that I can't judge fairly but I would love to check out.

I like the comment that WDW is comfortable for many of us. This new system throws many of that same group out of their comfort zone, myself included.

Excellent point! The new system throws everyone out of their comfort zone. Some of us can adapt easily to change, others can't which leads to complaints even before the complainers have even tried the system. It will all work out.

 

[doconeill]

I never said it changes or removes the concerns! You brought it up as a concern as though it's a new development due to the implementation of Magicbands, or that things will suddenly be worse because of them. If anything, this has been a problem for years, and it will only get better with Magicbands due to their "always attached to you" status.

Is duplication of RFID credit cards a widespread problem?

OK, I see what you are saying. There was a bad edit on my part in the original. Some of them are not new concerns, and is not different than a lost KTTW card. However, some ARE new concerns, and in addition, may be concerns to a wider audience, as RFID will not be restricted to resort guests only (ALL guests will eventually have RFID tickets or MagicBands).

As for noticing a lost MagicBand sooner than a lost card - I still say it depends. If as you say you will be using them more frequently, well, that applies if you have the card instead of the MagicBand too. As for wearing it...well, I used to wear a watch for years - but only when I was out of the house. When I came home, I took it off. Sometimes in the morning I'd forget to put it on for whatever reason, or I wasn't going out immediately so didn't put it on. If I went out without it on, I'd notice - but only at a particular point - in the car, when I was driving, and turning the wheel, I'd notice something was missing...if I wasn't driving, it would take a lot longer. Strange, but true.

Now, I haven't worn a watch in years. So I think I'll notice the MagicBand a lot more when I'm wearing it. But I wonder how much I'll notice if it fell off - because now I'm used to not wearing anything on my wrist, so that would feel "normal".

 

[CentralFloridian99]

As a local, I don't like the fact that you can plan 60 days in advance. A week before your vacation would be much easier and you'd be able to secure popular FPs when you actually know what you're doing.

 

[Simba77]

OK, I see what you are saying. There was a bad edit on my part in the original.

No problem! My head was going in circles

Some of them are not new concerns, and is not different than a lost KTTW card. However, some ARE new concerns, and in addition, may be concerns to a wider audience, as RFID will not be restricted to resort guests only (ALL guests will eventually have RFID tickets or MagicBands).

Definitely - I don't know the extent of the "open" nature of RFID chips (again, I think of the credit card thing)

As for noticing a lost MagicBand sooner than a lost card - I still say it depends. If as you say you will be using them more frequently, well, that applies if you have the card instead of the MagicBand too. As for wearing it...well, I used to wear a watch for years - but only when I was out of the house. When I came home, I took it off. Sometimes in the morning I'd forget to put it on for whatever reason, or I wasn't going out immediately so didn't put it on. If I went out without it on, I'd notice - but only at a particular point - in the car, when I was driving, and turning the wheel, I'd notice something was missing...if I wasn't driving, it would take a lot longer. Strange, but true.

Oh, I believe it. I'm absolutely certain some people will lose or misplace their bands. I feel like it will be less common, but either way, I don't think we'll suddenly see a great increase in lost Magicbands vs. KTTW, nor a significant increase in the time it takes someone to notice. It seems like they're both such a small percentage anyway. And with the perception that the Magicband is expensive and "special" as opposed to a card, I think people might take better care.

Now, I haven't worn a watch in years. So I think I'll notice the MagicBand a lot more when I'm wearing it. But I wonder how much I'll notice if it fell off - because now I'm used to not wearing anything on my wrist, so that would feel "normal".

I haven't read anything about how sturdy they are or how well they stay on your arm, but those pickpocket magicians on the street who steal people's watches are pretty good. The people never seem to notice until the pickpocket gives the watch back. So you might be right. But again, I do think the fact that these things are typically secured to your wrist, along with being perceived as precious or special will keep them at least as safe as the cards.

But as far as RFID cloning goes, I'm just wondering if it's worth it to those who would try to do it. If you have that kind of technology in your hands, I would think trying to nab some credit card numbers would be the way to make real money. Sneaking a couple of days of park access, with the very real potential of being caught in the act or caught when you try to use the media, doesn't seem like it's worth the effort. But that's just me!

 

[Simba77]

As a local, I don't like the fact that you can plan 60 days in advance. A week before your vacation would be much easier and you'd be able to secure popular FPs when you actually know what you're doing.

Yeah, that's a valid point - 60 days is a lot. But then again, do we even know how locals (AP holders, that is) will be able to choose FP+? Will there be a limit to how many they can pick? Or will they be able to choose every single day of the year since they have an AP? This is one of the things that seems to be up in the air right now - both with regard to AP holders and off-site guests.

As a non-AP-holder who always stays onsite, forgive me for wanting them to only give FP+ to those staying onsite. (only half kidding)

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I never said it changes or removes the concerns! You brought it up as a concern as though losing your Magicband and not noticing that it's gone is a new development due to the implementation of Magicbands, or that losing your Magicband and not knowing it will suddenly be worse than it was with cards. Here's your quote that I've been refuting:




If anything, losing your ticket media will only get better with Magicbands due to their "always attached to you" status.

And also, as far as duplication, is duplication of RFID credit cards a widespread problem?

I have close relatives who are pretty sure it happened to them...at the Magic Kingdom. Fortunately, their credit card company called them as soon as a large gift card was purchased in another state. They could think of no situation when that card had recently been at risk of theft, other than being in a wallet in MK. However, RFID park/resort cards would seem to be a lot less attractive to thieves. I'm more worried about technical gliches affecting my limited park days.

 

[doconeill]

But as far as RFID cloning goes, I'm just wondering if it's worth it to those who would try to do it. If you have that kind of technology in your hands, I would think trying to nab some credit card numbers would be the way to make real money. Sneaking a couple of days of park access, with the very real potential of being caught in the act or caught when you try to use the media, doesn't seem like it's worth the effort. But that's just me!

Precisely, which is why I said that although they were valid concerns, how much they are depends on the guest.

When they were going to allow sub-$50 PINless purchases, I was more concerned. The current PIN requirement makes it a LOT more difficult (but not impossible).

 

[Simba77]

I have close relatives who are pretty sure it happened to them...at the Magic Kingdom. Fortunately, their credit card company called them as soon as a large gift card was purchased in another state. They could think of no situation when that card had recently been at risk of theft, other than being in a wallet in MK. However, RFID park/resort cards would seem to be a lot less attractive to thieves. I'm more worried about technical gliches affecting my limited park days.

That might not be RFID cloning though. I've had my bank TWICE now re-issue a new credit card for me because they said something to the effect of "One of the companies you have purchased from in the past has notified us of a possible breach in their system. For your security, we're issuing you a new card. Please destroy the old one" blah blah blah.

So it could just be that somewhere your relatives made some purchases and that company had their data stolen - and assuming they have the same credit card number, it could have been years ago that they made the purchase with that seller that was compromised.