7 Month window is a scam

Agreed - I get being disappointed if someone can't switch to a non-home resort at 7 months. But to call it a scam? I find that somewhat offensive.

I know that's what DVC sales tells people, it is what it is from a sales technique standpoint, but buyers really need to understand the system.

Please enlighten me, why exactly would you find the statement offensive? After all, it wasn't a personal attack...

How is it that buyers would know they are not fully understanding the system if the salesperson is not being truthful with them? The oneness certainly shouldn't be removed from the salesperson, especially when you agree that the sales tactics include not divulging correct information.
 
Please enlighten me, why exactly would you find the statement offensive? After all, it wasn't a personal attack...

How is it that buyers would know they are not fully understanding the system if the salesperson is not being truthful with them? The oneness certainly shouldn't be removed from the salesperson, especially when you agree that the sales tactics include not divulging correct information.

Sorry. I apologize for the poor choice of words and if I offended you in any way, shape, or form. that was not my intent and again I apologize for my choice of words. I just meant that to use the term "scam" seemed a bit much. again I apologize profusely for offending anyone.
 
Sorry. I apologize for the poor choice of words and if I offended you in any way, shape, or form. that was not my intent and again I apologize for my choice of words. I just meant that to use the term "scam" seemed a bit much. again I apologize profusely for offending anyone.

No worries, though I find your profuse apology not only refreshing - but also kind. I was not offended, however appreciate the sentiment. I do agree, scam seems a bit harsh in the grand scheme of things, however I can empathize with the OP due to the incorrect information and false claims that are made during the sale. Additionally, I agree that ultimately we are responsible as owners to understand what we are purchasing.
 
I think the reason other DVC members might take issue with the "scam" wording is that many owners specifically bought a home resort they love (or at least really like) despite higher buy in costs and/or higher MF to avoid not getting shut out of their desired location-so when another owner is claiming it isn't fair that they can't book one of those rooms because it isn't avail at the 7 month window they are put off by that. I agree that the DVC guides pitched the whole trade into any other resort at 7 months and I think that they were VERY misleading in that regard (I know because we toured SSR back in 2005 and got the whole pitch). But being the pessimist I am I thought it sounded too good to be true and knew We'd be disappointed staying there regularly so we didn't buy. Fast forward 10 years (and a couple disney trips later) and we are now BWV owners. I truly DO feel sorry for people like the previous poster who bought SSR when disney was pushing it because I think DVC guides probably did mislead many people who trusted them when they said they could trade into any other resort (or maybe it was easier in the early days of DVC). I do NOT feel sorry for those who have since bought it on the resale market simply because it is the cheapest DVC resort out there and have the "a point is a point at 7 months" mentality-yes a point is a point BUT only if there is availability left at other resorts. If they can book other resorts once the 7 month window opens (which can happen for a good portion of the year) that's great and they can feel good about getting a deal using less expensive SSR points-if not they shouldn't be upset and call it a "scam"-that's why it is cheaper resale (if people could always get monorail or epcot resorts with SSR points year round than nobody would ever buy those other more expensive resorts resale would they?)
 


The best thing that you can do is expect the worse and hope for the best. Knowledge is power and understanding the way Disney really operates can better position you a more enjoyable vacation.

Their reason for being is to make money, they do this by offering entertainment, a show that starts from your home with you watching Disney commercials. They will show you the best of everything even though your experience may not always be the best.

For the DVC they will show you what you can do with your points, not that all uses makes financial sense or that those uses will always be available.

:earsboy: Bill
 
I think it was easier to switch resorts years ago...we purchased VWL in 2001.....and never had an issue booking BWV at 7 months...even during October until last year....
 
That wouldn't be required if the salespeople were honest about the fact that you will more than likely not be able to get into anything other than SSR/OKW in Nov - Dec. I know if I had been informed this, then I would have purchased where I would have wanted to stay 90% of the time.
Buyers need to understand what they're buying, the guide's job is simply to sell.
 


Buyers need to understand what they're buying, the guide's job is simply to sell.

I admit that sellers lying to sell a product is pretty lousy, but if you go into a timeshare presentation - even at Disney - you better go in with some heavy skepticism. It quite possible that they aren't even lying...they could easily say "At 7 months you will have the opportunity to get into all the other resorts" and that wouldn't even be a lie.

The two shadiest salespeople are for timeshares and used cars.

We recently took a tour of the facilities at SSR (not the actual sales-pitch, but we have a friend that works for DVC and he got us a tour of the VGF and Aulani rooms without having to sit through the pitch). My "favorite" part about it at the end was they had an ice cream parlor. "Hey, Let's make them all fat and happy while we give 'em one last hard sell!"
 
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;)Our very first trip to Disney, we rented points from my GF and stayed at AKL Jambo House. We loved it, but after doing lots and lots and lots of research we decided to buy resale at SSR for the lower cost and the lower maintenance fees. We have yet to stay at SSR, we have stayed at BLT last October and we will be staying at Poly this October.

I got lucky I guess because I know a lot of others haven't been able to secure this reservation, but I did not get it at my first attempt either. I was set up and ready to book and hit the button at 8 am the first day, no availability. Same thing the next day, up and hit the button, no availability. Third day, I got, but I could only book 7 nights online and then had to call each day at 9 to add days to our stay.

As long as you are flexible in where you stay and when you stay booking at 7 months can save you a lot of $$$.

Of course, after staying in October, I may be ruined for all other resorts and have to breakdown and purchase points there as well.
 
Buyers need to understand what they're buying, the guide's job is simply to sell.

If the guide is making misleading claims and answering the buyers questions with false information, how exactly is the buyer to know they have been mislead and that they do not have the correct understanding of what they are buying? If a car salesman sells a car to an individual saying the car is in great shape, and visually the car looks great and handles great during the test drive - only to start having issues three weeks after the sale due to the fact that the car was in a flood...how is that buyer to understand that the car was previously in a flood?
 
If the guide is making misleading claims and answering the buyers questions with false information, how exactly is the buyer to know they have been mislead and that they do not have the correct understanding of what they are buying? If a car salesman sells a car to an individual saying the car is in great shape, and visually the car looks great and handles great during the test drive - only to start having issues three weeks after the sale due to the fact that the car was in a flood...how is that buyer to understand that the car was previously in a flood?

With DVC you get what you are contracted for. There is a somewhat in depth contract when you purchase. It spells out exactly what you are entitled to. And the words "subject to availability" appear multiple times in the legal documents.

If you believe the car salesman, and don't get a warranty, that's a caveat emptor - unless your state has a lemon law. If you believe the timeshare salesman who tells you "yeah, no problem, you'll be able to book any room you want" - that's also a caveat emptor. And there isn't a law to protect you when you believe a timeshare salesman and the literature all says "subject to availability."

If you want to know what "subject to availability" means, this place, and several more on the internet, will help you understand just how likely it is to be watching Magic Kingdom fireworks on New Years Eve from your room on SSR points. The timeshare salesman won't.
 
With DVC you get what you are contracted for. There is a somewhat in depth contract when you purchase. It spells out exactly what you are entitled to. And the words "subject to availability" appear multiple times in the legal documents.

If you believe the car salesman, and don't get a warranty, that's a caveat emptor - unless your state has a lemon law. If you believe the timeshare salesman who tells you "yeah, no problem, you'll be able to book any room you want" - that's also a caveat emptor. And there isn't a law to protect you when you believe a timeshare salesman and the literature all says "subject to availability."

If you want to know what "subject to availability" means, this place, and several more on the internet, will help you understand just how likely it is to be watching Magic Kingdom fireworks on New Years Eve from your room on SSR points. The timeshare salesman won't.

I own at Bay Lake.

Additionally, I am well aware of what "subject to availability" means, thanks!

I do, however, have friends who own at SSR and they were given the same info as the OP and many others - "subject to availability" is in the contract due to "weeks like Christmas and New Years that are extremely busy and you will be less likely to book those outside your home resort".

Additionally, not everyone will search out forums such as this.

So, I guess we all should be ok knowing that the sales tactics of DVC reps are shady, at best?!

While I agree that it is, as I have said several times, ultimately the buyers responsibility to understand what they are buying or agreeing to - that should not absolve the seller of the responsibility to be honest.
 
If the guide is making misleading claims and answering the buyers questions with false information, how exactly is the buyer to know they have been mislead and that they do not have the correct understanding of what they are buying? If a car salesman sells a car to an individual saying the car is in great shape, and visually the car looks great and handles great during the test drive - only to start having issues three weeks after the sale due to the fact that the car was in a flood...how is that buyer to understand that the car was previously in a flood?
Anyone that accepts a salesperson's word at face value with no other input is asking for trouble. Even the best and most honest salesperson isn't going to know your situation well enough to truly help one make the best decision and that's not their job, it's to sell plain and simple. To answer your question, you educated yourself which is far easier to do today than at any other time in history and you read the legal paperwork with a critical eye during the cancelation period. For the car you get the records and car fax or similar. In your exact example they'd likely have to disclose it because you couldn't get a clear title in many situations. Think of someone who bought a timeshare for $20K that was literally worth pennies on the open market, it happens every day. My view is that anyone who can't hold their nose related to the timeshares industry and sales shouldn't own a timeshare of any type.
 
Anyone that accepts a salesperson's word at face value with no other input is asking for trouble. Even the best and most honest salesperson isn't going to know your situation well enough to truly help one make the best decision and that's not their job, it's to sell plain and simple. To answer your question, you educated yourself which is far easier to do today than at any other time in history and you read the legal paperwork with a critical eye during the cancelation period. For the car you get the records and car fax or similar. In your exact example they'd likely have to disclose it because you couldn't get a clear title in many situations. Think of someone who bought a timeshare for $20K that was literally worth pennies on the open market, it happens every day. My view is that anyone who can't hold their nose related to the timeshares industry and sales shouldn't own a timeshare of any type.


See my reply above.
 
See my reply above.
You would have to prove any dishonesty in a legal sense and that such dishonesty affected your decision and purchase. This really is an ultimate impossibility when it comes to timeshares unless one can go to the trouble of a class action and pool enough into to be convincing until itself, there's nothing with DVC to suggest that as a reasonable approach. Ultimately this is the way it is and neither you nor I will change it. IF that's enough of an issue for you, not participating is likely your best option. DVC is about as mild mannered as it gets when it comes to timeshares sales. My suggestion is the next time you're in an area where there's a westgate resort, do their sales presentation or even Wyndham's. Historically the top timeshares sales people (general terms) are simply legal con men, often with salaries well above 6 figures.
 
Anyone that accepts a salesperson's word at face value with no other input is asking for trouble. Even the best and most honest salesperson isn't going to know your situation well enough to truly help one make the best decision and that's not their job, it's to sell plain and simple. To answer your question, you educated yourself which is far easier to do today than at any other time in history and you read the legal paperwork with a critical eye during the cancelation period. For the car you get the records and car fax or similar. In your exact example they'd likely have to disclose it because you couldn't get a clear title in many situations. Think of someone who bought a timeshare for $20K that was literally worth pennies on the open market, it happens every day. My view is that anyone who can't hold their nose related to the timeshares industry and sales shouldn't own a timeshare of any type.
Someone mentioned the DVC tour's ice cream parlor ending above. That's so warm and fuzzy compared to the ending of most time share presentations. I was basically called stupid for not recognizing what a great deal a certain timeshare would be. Now for me, that ended it right there--once the line to abuse was crossed, that salesman was getting nowhere with me. It must work, though, or they wouldn't do it. They wanted $15K but it's worth only a few thousand resale.
 
You would have to prove any dishonesty in a legal sense and that such dishonesty affected your decision and purchase. This really is an ultimate impossibility when it comes to timeshares unless one can go to the trouble of a class action and pool enough into to be convincing until itself, there's nothing with DVC to suggest that as a reasonable approach. Ultimately this is the way it is and neither you nor I will change it. IF that's enough of an issue for you, not participating is likely your best option. DVC is about as mild mannered as it gets when it comes to timeshares sales. My suggestion is the next time you're in an area where there's a westgate resort, do their sales presentation or even Wyndham's. Historically the top timeshares sales people (general terms) are simply legal con men, often with salaries well above 6 figures.

Perhaps you have missed where I said that I am empathizing get with the OP...
 
I would just book somewhere else and waitlist the entire stay. We had luck with that in September at BCV!
 
Someone mentioned the DVC tour's ice cream parlor ending above. That's so warm and fuzzy compared to the ending of most time share presentations. I was basically called stupid for not recognizing what a great deal a certain timeshare would be. Now for me, that ended it right there--once the line to abuse was crossed, that salesman was getting nowhere with me. It must work, though, or they wouldn't do it. They wanted $15K but it's worth only a few thousand resale.
I've seen directly and many reports of some abusive and demeaning actions by sales staff at a number of resorts and systems. There is a theme to the point where I've actually done significant and direct investigation with some very high level and successful staff with at least 3 companies (all non DVC). This type of behavior is so common that I was convinced there had to be a method behind it but I couldn't come up with one. At the end of the day no one has ever hinted that they thought or knew it was a sales tactic. The 2 answers I've gotten were just they didn't know or the more believable one, Bully kids trapped in adult bodies. My Son in Law asked one in HI why he should buy when he could mooch off the FIL, end of discussion. He tried the same technique in Nashville and the salesperson told him he should buy in case he ever got divorced. I know of far worse things such as in MX where one might be driven hours from the resort and effectively be held hostage or worse, physically threatened. I've taken to getting the promised length of the tour in writing and starting the clock at the time of the appt even if they are late (assuming I was on time or early (early is on time in my book)). I did apparently get one guy fired a few yrs ago.
 
Perhaps you have missed where I said that I am empathizing get with the OP...
Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying. I read several things from you suggesting that one was OK relying on the sales person only and holding that salesperson to an unrealistic standard. The OP was simply wrong in their assessment of the situation. I think we all can sympathize when one doesn't get something they wanted but that's different than someone else being at fault.
 

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