$350 million going to WDW road improvements

[Dean Marino]

But what's the gain? A "hotel flyover" does very little...it's more aesthetics than actuall tangible yield.

Having a rough day...I think

Not sure about that one.... WDW put in traffic lights at the congested gate area - I suspect they just are not cutting it. MANY people have suggested a flyover in the past - the issues were cost, and land suitability.

(Edit) I have not seen any work plans for the proposed location. If the new flyover is where I THINK it is, it would benefit all traffic going TO WL, the Poly, Contemporary, and GF. It would also GREATLY improve bus safety for anyone departing from said resorts to EPCOT and HS.

Now - hoping that seven seas drive has a planned expansion to FOUR LANES. That thing is a SERIOUS choke point for just about everyone....

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Not sure about that one.... WDW put in traffic lights at the congested gate area - I suspect they just are not cutting it. MANY people have suggested a flyover in the past - the issues were cost, and land suitability.

(Edit) I have not seen any work plans for the proposed location. If the new flyover is where I THINK it is, it would benefit all traffic going TO WL, the Poly, Contemporary, and GF. It would also GREATLY improve bus safety for anyone departing from said resorts to EPCOT and HS.

Now - hoping that seven seas drive has a planned expansion to FOUR LANES. That thing is a SERIOUS choke point for just about everyone....

That's just not a significant amount of traffic.

If anything...it would probably help the employees getting to those locations more Than anything.

There just isn't a history of traffic delays at that till plaza...sorry , 3 minutes is not a delay.

I still think this is either aesthetics or part of a larger expansion scheme.

It's a big to do to service about 3,000 hotel rooms where probably 65% or more fly in...

Perhaps the bus impact...perhaps the elimination of the monorail as I've often postulated.

It's not to ease any current problem. There just isn't one.

If they think magic kingdom attendance will double...then that's just crazy. The park can't function/isn't worth that.

 

[DDLand]

Well the town of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista are within Reedy Creek improvement district. Both of those town have residents. I would think those people have to pay some sort of taxes. While I'd assume a good amount is Disney's money I don't think all of it is.

According to RCID 85% of tax dollars are attributable to WDW. Lake BV population isn't significant enough to contribute with something like 10 people living there. I believe Bonnet Creek and several other hotels that aren't Disney are located in the district, probably generating the lion's share of the remaining tax revenue. They said they have 40 thousand hotel rooms on property, so that seems to make sense.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well the town of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista are within Reedy Creek improvement district. Both of those town have residents. I would think those people have to pay some sort of taxes. While I'd assume a good amount is Disney's money I don't think all of it is.

I'm not gonna beat you up here...

But I will suggest you read "married to the mouse" and "project future"...both excellent books you'll enjoy.

In them, they explain lake buena vista, reedy creek, the Florida legislature circa 1965, and the "special taxation district"...

Walt Disney world is the closest thing to an independent state as far as taxation privileges goes in the United States...

More than a native reservation. It's the Vatican.

 

[rteetz]

I'm not gonna beat you up here...

But I will suggest you read "married to the mouse" and "project future"...both excellent books you'll enjoy.

In them, they explain lake buena vista, reedy creek, the Florida legislature circa 1965, and the "special taxation district"...

Walt Disney world is the closest thing to an independent state as far as taxation privileges goes in the United States...

More than a native reservation. It's the Vatican.

I knew I didn't have any facts on it so that's why I generalized. I figured some of the money has to be from elsewhere besides Disney. I'll look into those books as well. That's one subject I don't know a whole lot about reedy creek and how it operates. I just find it interesting when people say reedy creek is paying for it. It's it's mostly Disney why don't they say Disney is paying for it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I knew I didn't have any facts on it so that's why I generalized. I figured some of the money has to be from elsewhere besides Disney. I'll look into those books as well. That's one subject I don't know a whole lot about reedy creek and how it operates. I just find it interesting when people say reedy creek is paying for it. It's it's mostly Disney why don't they say Disney is paying for it.

Because there are several advantages to having the other "entities" claim credit for it.

Reedy creek is a Disney appointed board. The town of lake buena vista is a couple of hundred residents picked by Disney... I can't buy a condo there.

I won't get into too much detail...read those books... There fascinating and I don't want to ruin the narrative for you.

 

[SkyChaser]

350 mill ... R U kidding ?

That was my first thought as well. In the world of road improvements and construction that is considered a massive amount of money. Between the expansion of the MK parking lot and widening the bandwidth of transit infrastructure it certainly sounds like they are planning on being able to move around a lot more people in the future. Unfortunately, making it easier for more people to get to and park at any of the theme parks is only going to put increase pressure on the limited number of attractions which are already struggling to accommodate current guest volume.

 

[George4]

There may not be much of a traffic issue at the toll gate, but there are several other areas (near DHS back issue and EPCOT) that are in desperate need of some transportation help. I would be curious if the toll plaza might be part of a larger traffic solution, and the flyover is needed to facilitate that larger plan.

I keep hoping it is a Disney buses only set of lanes to get anywhere in WDW, but I know that is pipe dream of mine. Just like the monorail loop to all parks from a central transportation hub. Total pipe dream.

 

[ParrotBill]

A flyover is an elevated roadway over another road or waterway.... in other words a bridge! I believe the reason for the flyover is the crossing traffic coming southbound and turning left toward Fort Wilderness and Port Orleans. It is a dangerous intersection because at times during the day the northbound traffic coming through the toll booths is relentless. So a flyover keeps that traffic moving at 45 mph and the southbound traffic has no stop as it turns and cross under the flyover. Toll booth traffic veers left and only left out of the plaza.

The Center Drive connector to Floridian Way is as we predicted from the permit filings and a welcome add given new services available out Reams Road, so you can stay away from US 192 if you want.

The Western Way extension is a little bit of a head scratcher, I suspect it's more for employees who want to avoid tolls, or future development plans.

The Victory Way intersection never bothered me. It's not much of a delay and has good sight lines. Would rather see them eliminate the light at the south entrance to Hollywood Studios or whatever they're calling it now. That light always had higher risk of accidents the way I see it.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

A flyover is an elevated roadway over another road or waterway.... in other words a bridge! I believe the reason for the flyover is the crossing traffic coming southbound and turning left toward Fort Wilderness and Port Orleans. It is a dangerous intersection because at times during the day the northbound traffic coming through the toll booths is relentless. So a flyover keeps that traffic moving at 45 mph and the southbound traffic has no stop as it turns and cross under the flyover. Toll booth traffic veers left and only left out of the plaza.

We have a WINNER! That would be my best guess as well, and I have just a bit of experience with this stuff ;-) (20 years in the road design business specializing in safety / operations). The intersection is dangerous, thus the need for a signal. Signals are not installed on a whim. They need to meet a number of criteria to warrant installation. That intersection has warranted a signal for a number of years. SB traffic onto Vista Blvd does back up. People get anxious and take chances. Best way to mitigate that is to make it a signalized intersection with stop controls. The downside to that is you get delays. A delay of 80 seconds is considered a "Level of Service F". Basically - not good in the traffic engineering world. A flyover makes a lot of sense. Keeps traffic free flowing from Vista Blvd onto NB World Drive, and vice versa, and allows NB World Drive traffic to free flow past the toll booth and intersection. Win-Win for everyone.

I think this has nothing to do with a class system or more DVC, or issues at the toll booth, but rather speaks to the need to more efficiently and effectively get people through that intersection in a safe manner.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Let me be clear...all that DVC stuff is happening...I'd bet the farm.

But as far as the infrastructure improvements go...that's just perhaps a small piece. I'm not sure the "dangerous" intersection to service the campground is the real reason...again I think it's a minor one.

They seem to be acting quickly - by disney standards - to initiate this new "north to south" route from the newer connectors on the north/west side of the property to the old portion...alot of that is to allow more flow down toward ak, MGM, and downtown...no doubt.

But isn't it funny that the areas up by magic kingdom that were once the "sleepy, undisturbed corner of the property are now the ripe place to funnel people through? It's almost like they want people avoiding I-4 via vehicle...

Can't imagine why...

 

[LeeAndRobin]

We have a WINNER! That would be my best guess as well, and I have just a bit of experience with this stuff ;-) (20 years in the road design business specializing in safety / operations). The intersection is dangerous, thus the need for a signal. Signals are not installed on a whim.

I'm not sure the "dangerous" intersection to service the campground is the real reason...again I think it's a minor one.

So your judgement on highway design and safety trumps a member with 20 years experience doing just that, who is familiar said intersection? Your hubris apparently knows no bounds...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

So your judgement on highway design and safety trumps a member with 20 years experience doing just that, who is familiar said intersection? Your hubris apparently knows no bounds...

Well just an opinion.

It's not like I have operational experience/ insight at wdw...and it's not
Like a work for a major northeastern architectural/engineering firm (can't live in the magic kingdom forever...and I hated Christmas lights on palmetto trees) who's core history/clientele are civil and infrastructure - including the largest and most well funded state transportation agencies, turnpike authorities, and federal roads programs...

It was just a lowly opinion.

And if you notice - I didnt dismiss the reason - I accepted it. But I think it's one of several reasons. So it's really all in the prose... Isn't it?

Somedays you get the bear... Most days the bear gets you.

Ps...I have agreed with my wolverine friend on probably 99% of the topics and posts...and do on this one too...I just have a differing opinion on the priority of a fairly insignificant intersection without a history of MAJOR incidents/loss occurence. If they are indeed planning on "opening up" the northern/western approaches...then that could change the scenario.

Wait a second... Why am I apologizing for agreeing again? Tone? Your can interpret the keyboard?

Totally confused.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

Logic is correct. You don't build roadway extensions, upgrade your intersections or build flyovers unless you have traffic capacity issues which are typically spurred on by development. I was just trying to point out that in the traffic engineering world, that Vista Blvd / World Drive intersection is not good. The flyover and reconfiguration will move more traffic in and out of the MK area in a safer, more efficient manner. Clearly they're doing that because their traffic projections show the need for it. Whether it's due to DVC, other expansions, the thinking that the extra parking will create more traffic, the bigger busses, etc. We agree.