16 Days of MB and FP+

[nwcutie]

Thank you for that post, OP. The whole RFID thing is creepy - how much control do you need over soft drinks for crying out loud. And do they REALLY need the long range transmitters so they know when I'm in the restroom and for how long. Ew!

I think it is interesting that the MB work great for separating the guest from his or her $, but not so well when it doesn't directly impact revenue (i.e. getting into your room or the park). They seem to understand that if your band doesn't work when you go to buy something, you will walk away, but if it you can't get into the park or your room, you will persevere. hmmm

As my youngest is 14, this will probably be my last trip until I have grandchildren (and that looks to be a LONG time away based on how the older 3 boys are doing, haha) There is just too many cool other things to do. That being said, I am still the disney fan in our fam. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE DLR and WDW, but the rest of them want to experience new things. With the 4 boys and DH, I am completely outnumbered.

Thanks again

 

[mesaboy2]

That wasn't very helpful.

1. Comfort in knowing that rides you like (but no more than 3, all in one park, and no repeats) are already reserved two months in advance.
2. I'm thinking...might be a while....

 

[bcrook]

To quote Simon and Garfunkel "still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

Some people who have their minds made up that FP+ is bad for them only want to hear what the people who agree with them have to say, and disregard anyone else.

That makes it impossible to have a rational discussion with those people.

I could repeat the reasons why I think FP+ would be better for us than FP-, which we never used that much, but it would be a waste of effort on people who have already closed their minds.

To be honest, I think of this whenever you post.

Your disregard for the motives Disney has specifically stated and the lack of engaging in the thoughtful points by Laketravis doesn't show a well rounded analysis on your part.

Laketravis points out that Disney did not approach this from a customer service direction, but from a yield management position. That is the crux of the issue. That is what the complaints boil down to.

Of course it currently works for a fraction of Disney customers, it is like being in a country club right now reaping really powerful membership privileges. But the overall stated plan isn't designed to give some people a country club experience, it is designed to lock as many different people in the parks as possible.

A lot of disappointment comes from the fact that Disney missed the mark. It did have great potential.

 

[bcrook]

1. Comfort in knowing that rides you like (but no more than 3, all in one park, and no repeats) are already reserved two months in advance.
2. I'm thinking...might be a while....

Staggs said that customers really enjoy interacting with the technology. I don't know if I have read that as a reason on the boards all that much.

 

[wisblue]

WISBlue, I am going in January and am undecided about using FP+, could you help me out and list the advantages to FP+?

It depends a lot on the makeup of your group, your touring style, whether you are staying onsite or off, and the time of year you are visiting.

If you really want personal advice, feel free to send me a PM and I'll give you my thoughts. If I post here it will just be a magnet to get the usual responses about how there isn't anything positive about FP+ and, frankly, I've had enough of that. I can see how FP+ should work well for us, and I really don't care if I am the only person who feels that way. But, I know from other posts that I am not alone. And, if you count the number of POSTERS, and not the number of POSTS, I don't know who is in the majority. It does seem clear that a number of the people with tens of thousands of posts on these boards are opposed to FP+ and are willing to voice that opposition several times a day.

One simple thing. If you are saying that you are unsure about using FP+ because you are considering not using FP+ and just relying on FP-, I can't think of any reason to do that. Nobody knows for sure what things will be like in January, and whether anyone will be able to use both FP+ and FP-, or have a choice between the two. If you are eligible for FP+, you might as well make some reservations. Even if you never use any of them, you aren't out anything.

 

[Laketravis]

I have no doubt that those of us on these boards have a high level of sensitivity to changes at WDW and can realize advantages in even the worse of those changes, but I also think that we, as a group, represent a tiny percentage of uber-users with skills and knowledge and experience that the vast number of visitors to WDW do not have.

I recently read where more than 50% of the visitors to WDW are once-in-a-lifetime. It's a huge gamble to create an infrastructure that requires previsit education, knowledge, reservations, and intimate understanding in order for that visit to be successful. The biggest challenge for Disney will be satisfying that majority.

Because we (DIS) as a group do know so much about WDW we tend to forget how little most people do.

Despite websites and videos and mailers and USB sticks and DVD's and emails and Stacy TV, I lost count of how many guests asked the CM at the legacy FP machines how much does it cost to upgrade to FastPass. And WDW is going to get these people to make informed online reservations months in advance for Figment and be happy with that decision when they arrive?

Yes, I thought it was cool that I could reserve a spot on TSM at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon. But what about the rest of the day? Dropping by the park for an afternoon visit to a couple of attractions is a leisure that only AP holders can enjoy.

The only thing that can stop this beast of an initiative is the BOD. There is already a lack of promised financial return and all eyes are on the ever increasing costs. Projects are on hold until MDE gets its act together. Iger shows up with a team of suits and isn't happy.

My being able to secure a spot on TSM at 3 in the afternoon is not the reason Disney spent over a billion dollars on this so far.

 

[wisblue]

To be honest, I think of this whenever you post.

Your disregard for the motives Disney has specifically stated and the lack of engaging in the thoughtful points by Laketravis doesn't show a well rounded analysis on your part.

Laketravis points out that Disney did not approach this from a customer service direction, but from a yield management position. That is the crux of the issue. That is what the complaints boil down to.

Of course it currently works for a fraction of Disney customers, it is like being in a country club right now reaping really powerful membership privileges. But the overall stated plan isn't designed to give some people a country club experience, it is designed to lock as many different people in the parks as possible.

A lot of disappointment comes from the fact that Disney missed the mark. It did have great potential.

Here's the difference.

Whether I agree or disagree with them, I could list the reasons why people who favor FP- think the old system is better. For someone who is active on these boards to think that the two reasons listed above are the only ones, or even by far the most significant ones, that anyone has given in support of FP+ is not listening.

And how can you say that the whole MM+ has missed the mark and is a big disappointment when it isn't even close to final yet?

 

[mesaboy2]

Staggs said that customers really enjoy interacting with the technology. I don't know if I have read that as a reason on the boards all that much.

You're right, I remember him saying that. Can't recall many users saying it though.

 

[Missyrose]

To quote Simon and Garfunkel "still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

Some people who have their minds made up that FP+ is bad for them only want to hear what the people who agree with them have to say, and disregard anyone else.

That makes it impossible to have a rational discussion with those people.

I could repeat the reasons why I think FP+ would be better for us than FP-, which we never used that much, but it would be a waste of effort on people who have already closed their minds.

I hate to point this out, but you're disregarding Robo's arguments (in much the same way you say people who dislike FP+ disregard the ways people like FP+). You can disagree with someone on what they post. But it seems crazy to say you can't have a rational discussion with quite possibly the longest-tenured and most rational poster on this board. We know you like FP+. What people are saying in this thread is they don't like the system Disney has predicated FP+ upon -- namely the technology that has been implemented solely to squeeze more money out of its guests.

 

[Laketravis]

And how can you say that the whole MM+ has missed the mark and is a big disappointment when it isn't even close to final yet?

From a MiceAge article "My Magic Bust" dated 11/26/2013:

"...The execs pushing NextGen and glossing over its early failures have no front line experience running a theme park, nor do they have passion for providing the park visitors with a great experience, which is the fatal flaw behind the MagicBands problems.

The end result is that as Disney entered its new 2014 fiscal year a month ago, the results of years of NextGen investment werent paying off as theyd been promised to do strongly by Fiscal Year 2014. Not only is NextGen not paying off financially yet, its created a laundry list of additional fixes that will require more investment into 2015. While the executives in charge of the NextGen project have been dancing around the issue for the past year, by November the results thus far were clearly a disappointment to Burbank.....

But one thing the NextGen project has done well is churn out tons of customer data and given the Operations folks lots of new experience with frustrated visitors and knowledge of what doesnt work with the system. Much of that data conflicts with Anaheims demographics (dedicated locals and casual tourists on a bigger California vacation) and makes NextGen even less workable for the Disneyland Resort. Which makes the WDW financials look even worse to Burbank.

Bob Iger and all of Disneys top executives had a very tense series of meetings and presentations in Orlando two weeks ago. The NextGen program was discussed at length at this executive gathering, on the record and off, and it was impossible to sugarcoat the fact that the NextGen program is wildly over budget, way behind schedule, and not pulling in the extra profits it was supposed to. A furious Bob Iger returned to Burbank and has now told WDI to halt all work on all major projects planned for the American parks, Disneyland Paris and Hong Kong Disneyland. And in a follow up meeting with Tom Staggs last week, WDI and TDA had the financial rug yanked out from underneath all of the smaller projects being worked on specifically for Anaheim and Disneylands 60th Anniversary. The result is that dozens of Imagineers who were working on Star Wars and other plans for Anaheim have now been told to stop their work and are reassigned to work on Shanghai Disneyland (and its conveniently separate budget) for at least the next 90 days."

 

[bcrook]

Here's the difference.

Whether I agree or disagree with them, I could list the reasons why people who favor FP- think the old system is better. For someone who is active on these boards to think that the two reasons listed above are the only ones, or even by far the most significant ones, that anyone has given in support of FP+ is not listening.

And how can you say that the whole MM+ has missed the mark and is a big disappointment when it isn't even close to final yet?

Laketravis just wrote the longest post ever explaining this. I have an entire blog site dedicated to archiving press releases and FP+ analyses.

And for the record I have said magicbands, pp+ and interactive possibilities are positives. It has been FP+ that has been misguided from the outset.

To me the most telling thing was when Disney released the big reveal in January and then immediately clammed up and went into damage control. The fact that they are going into the holiday season with over half of their customers shut out of the process is an indicator of failure. There is no way this could have been there grand plan.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Here's the difference.

Whether I agree or disagree with them, I could list the reasons why people who favor FP- think the old system is better. For someone who is active on these boards to think that the two reasons listed above are the only ones, or even by far the most significant ones, that anyone has given in support of FP+ is not listening.

And how can you say that the whole MM+ has missed the mark and is a big disappointment when it isn't even close to final yet?

Honestly, I would like to hear your reasons as a contrast. For the record, I was totally onboard with FPP. I hate rope drop with a passion. But then....tiers came and who knows maybe more to come. Now its not 3 rides of your choice anymore...some would argue it never was due to the one-park and no-repeats limitation.

 

[lugnut33]

I had a large thread that got closed for some reason, but here were my recommendations for any future trips to WDW with FP+

Stay for 7 days minimum.

Don't worry about park hopping unless you're interested in seeing the lesser known attractions.

Do not change your schedule the day of unless you don't care about losing your FP to the headliners.

At non busy times you will want to be at the parks at least a half hour before opening..at bust times get there an hour or two ahead. This way you can see the most attractions in a day.

It's still ok to leave for an afternoon break, just make sure you get back in time for your FP+ appointments.

Be prepared for huge lines to get into FP lines. That means bring ponchos.

Work with your kids on proper magic band placement so the line keeps moving.

If you get to the parks in the afternoon, do your FP+ rides and then see a show or leave because you will encounter huge lines for all attractions! unless it's dead in the parks.

Once it's offered go ahead and purchase the unlimited FP no matter how much it costs.

 

[Marthasor]

Thank you for the analysis OP. It's incredibly interesting and quite sad at the same time. As I read it, it, for some reason reminded me of the John Carter debacle - over-produced, over-budget Disney schlock that ultimately got Rich Ross fired. I think you are right, we are in techno geek land and they have spent $1 billion $$, how does a company extricate itself from that? What WOULD it have cost to simply create more capacity on TSMM? Or create more eTicket rides? More than what they spent on MB? I don't have the answer, but I can say they would have made it a more enjoyable experience if they had ditched the bands and updated old rides and created new ones. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[bcrook]

Thank you for the analysis OP. It's incredibly interesting and quite sad at the same time. As I read it, it, for some reason reminded me of the John Carter debacle - over-produced, over-budget Disney schlock that ultimately got Rich Ross fired. I think you are right, we are in techno geek land and they have spent $1 billion $$, how does a company extricate itself from that? What WOULD it have cost to simply create more capacity on TSMM? Or create more eTicket rides? More than what they spent on MB? I don't have the answer, but I can say they would have made it a more enjoyable experience if they had ditched the bands and updated old rides and created new ones. That's my opinion anyway.

Just think if disney would have used some of that money for more ride capacity in Epcot and DHS. Then unveiled a new system with magicbands in conjunction with the cool new interactive elements of Pandora. I don't understand why they didn't go that route anyway. That is the Disney innovative piece, but we won't see this until 2017.

Or, why didn't the new fantasyland have something pandora like in it? The magicbands big connection there will be a line queue element. Just more examples of why this wasn't developed from the imagineering perspective but from the techno side.

 

[momof2n2]

Just think if disney would have used some of that money for more ride capacity in Epcot and DHS. Then unveiled a new system with magicbands in conjunction with the cool new interactive elements of Pandora. I don't understand why they didn't go that route anyway. That is the Disney innovative piece, but we won't see this until 2017. Or, why didn't the new fantasyland have something pandora like in it? The magicbands big connection there will be a line queue element. Just more examples of why this wasn't developed from the imagineering perspective but from the techno side.

It hurts too much to think about what they could have done/added/expanded...
It's like watching your favorite team fumble the ball.

 

[Laketravis]

....Or, why didn't the new fantasyland have something pandora like in it? The magicbands big connection there will be a line queue element. Just more examples of why this wasn't developed from the imagineering perspective but from the techno side.

Interesting you say that - for a couple of days, I would ride Haunted Mansion, then Under the Sea, then Haunted Mansion again, then Under the Sea....constantly comparing both of those clam shell rides.

And each time I did, I came to the same conclusion - that there is no comparison. HM is, well...."deep" in detail, everywhere you can look. Under the Sea just seemed "Flat" and sparse. Blank one dimensional walls, painted plywood reliefs, sparse animation......

I commented to my wife about it, and she quickly pointed out that Walt had a vision the new ones lack.

 

[wisblue]

Honestly, I would like to hear your reasons as a contrast. For the record, I was totally onboard with FPP. I hate rope drop with a passion. But then....tiers came and who knows maybe more to come. Now its not 3 rides of your choice anymore...some would argue it never was due to the one-park and no-repeats limitation.

I've offered those reasons several times and repeating them again would serve no purpose other than to generate the same responses.

 

[Missyrose]

Just think if disney would have used some of that money for more ride capacity in Epcot and DHS. Then unveiled a new system with magicbands in conjunction with the cool new interactive elements of Pandora. I don't understand why they didn't go that route anyway. That is the Disney innovative piece, but we won't see this until 2017.

Or, why didn't the new fantasyland have something pandora like in it? The magicbands big connection there will be a line queue element. Just more examples of why this wasn't developed from the imagineering perspective but from the techno side.

The sad thing is there is RFID stuff built into New Fantasyland that they haven't turned on yet because they don't want to add another layer of complexity to the new system. Scuttle in the Ariel queue, for instance.

 

[MrsUqdah]

To quote Simon and Garfunkel "still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest". Some people who have their minds made up that FP+ is bad for them only want to hear what the people who agree with them have to say, and disregard anyone else. That makes it impossible to have a rational discussion with those people. I could repeat the reasons why I think FP+ would be better for us than FP-, which we never used that much, but it would be a waste of effort on people who have already closed their minds.

Well I'm interested in your opinion because I have an upcoming May trip that I'm getting a little bummed about because of the negative post. I haven't been to WDW in 8 years. I've had 4 previous trips, the 2nd for my DH and DD. First trip for my DS's 2 and 5. We will be there 5/12 - 5/18 so I am excited and the Flower and Garden Festival . So what are the positive experiences you've had or heard about?