Guardians of the (Epcot) Galaxy

Josh Hendy · Jul 7, 2016

ColoradoDreamin said:
I think Epcot is a lot harder park then anybody realizes. it was a great theme, but that ship has sailed. It just can't work, from having to get sponsors, to the constant updates needed...Disney realized it long ago, and while us "casual" fans haven't figured it out yet, I think many others have.

I don't believe that it can't work and that Disney can't find sponsors. I think that instead Disney execs fell in love with MBA inspired buzzwords and concepts which add up to, never miss a single moment to shove a gift shop with fantasy-movie based plastic toys in front of your customers.

As for "the constant updates needed" ... you must be kidding. Now they're going to jump all over a temporarily-popular comic book based movie ... or even a movie series. In fifteen years do you think that GoG circa 2015 movie ... or its plastic toys ... will still seem fresh? And the average for Disney to leave an attraction without any major update or script change is more like 25-30 years. Imagine the "new" GoG ride in 2045. That's not just stale ... that's James Cagney-Johnny Weissmuller stale.

The casual fan might not understand the inner workings of media companies ... but they're pretty good at figuring out when they're being fed either stale, tired entertainment (Epcot I) ... or shallow, trendy merch-based money grabs (Epcot II).

And to be completely honest, what you're actually going to get is a themeless mish-mash of I and II.

ParrotBill · Jul 11, 2016

If this comes about I hope Imagineering is smart enough to design a ride which is flexible and programmable, using LED walls, projection screens, and a ride system that can be easily repurposed in the future without another huge capital investment.

Ian W. · Jul 30, 2016

For what it's worth:https://www.change.org/p/valiquette...msg&recuruit_context=fb_share_mention_control

rteetz · Jul 30, 2016

Ian W. said:
For what it's worth:https://www.change.org/p/valiquette...msg&recuruit_context=fb_share_mention_control

I understand what people are trying to do but never in 61 years of Disney parks have petitions worked to change something. When the took mr. toads from MK people were outraged and had like a sit in on the ride, the ride still got taken out.

old lady · Jul 30, 2016

I blame Michael Eisner for changing the Universe of Energy ride I actually believe that it would make more sense to remodel the tower of terrors ride on the old Disney cartoon, The clock cleaners.

Ian W. · Jul 30, 2016

rteetz said:
I understand what people are trying to do but never in 61 years of Disney parks have petitions worked to change something. When the took mr. toads from MK people were outraged and had like a sit in on the ride, the ride still got taken out.

Oh, I agree totally. I just thought getting something out there to "spread the word" a bit would be better than moping and complaining about it on message boards, as I usually do. I know most complaints will fall on deaf ears at Disney - witness Mr. Toad, as you mentioned, Horizons, etc.
I also have no doubt that despite the overwhelming negative reactions on social media, they will push ahead with the conversion of the Tower of Terror at DCA. It would seem that occasionally the push-back can be effective (witness the apparent abandonment of the GOTG overlay plans at DHS's Tower), or extremely unpopular changes are "corrected" after the fact (Journey Into YOUR Imagination, Disneyland's Light Magic parade).
I'm also not advocating leaving Energy alone as-is; it's badly dated and on need of a renewal, probably a top-to-bottom re-think. Many would agree, though, that to replace it with a science-ficton movie ride is driving the last nail in the coffin holding Future World's thematic and spiritual integrity; to shrug and do nothing seems, to me, to go against the very spirit the park was created in.
My presence in social media (and online in general) is limited, and my friends don't follow Disney - not like I do, anyway. This board is one of the few places I go with others who love Disney. I don't know - maybe this wasn't the best forum to post this sort of thing.

rteetz · Jul 30, 2016

Ian W. said:
Oh, I agree totally. I just thought getting something out there to "spread the word" a bit would be better than moping and complaining about it on message boards, as I usually do. I know most complaints will fall on deaf ears at Disney - witness Mr. Toad, as you mentioned, Horizons, etc.
I also have no doubt that despite the overwhelming negative reactions on social media, they will push ahead with the conversion of the Tower of Terror at DCA. It would seem that occasionally the push-back can be effective (witness the apparent abandonment of the GOTG overlay plans at DHS's Tower), or extremely unpopular changes are "corrected" after the fact (Journey Into YOUR Imagination, Disneyland's Light Magic parade).
I'm also not advocating leaving Energy alone as-is; it's badly dated and on need of a renewal, probably a top-to-bottom re-think. Many would agree, though, that to replace it with a science-ficton movie ride is driving the last nail in the coffin holding Future World's thematic and spiritual integrity; to shrug and do nothing seems, to me, to go against the very spirit the park was created in.
My presence in social media (and online in general) is limited, and my friends don't follow Disney - not like I do, anyway. This board is one of the few places I go with others who love Disney. I don't know - maybe this wasn't the best forum to post this sort of thing.

Completely understand. I just wanted to point out to others that petitions often don't work. I hope the push back Disney is getting makes them not copy this conversion at any other park.

mom2rtk · Jul 30, 2016

old lady said:
I blame Michael Eisner for changing the Universe of Energy ride I actually believe that it would make more sense to remodel the tower of terrors ride on the old Disney cartoon, The clock cleaners.

The problem of course is that people probably wouldn't buy Clock Cleaners merchandise in the quantity that Disney hopes to sell GotG merchandise.

rteetz · Jul 30, 2016

mom2rtk said:
The problem of course is that people probably wouldn't buy Clock Cleaners merchandise in the quantity that Disney hopes to sell GotG merchandise.

I'm going to be honest I don't even know what this clock cleaner thing is you guys are talking about.

mom2rtk · Jul 30, 2016

rteetz said:
I'm going to be honest I don't even know what this clock cleaner thing is you guys are talking about.

I'll be honest. I didn't know either, until I just googled it and see that it's a 1937 short. That's why I went out on a limb and guessed it would sell less merchandise than GotG. My point being that the parks seem more than ever before to be an extension of the merchandising department.

tarheelblue8853 · Jul 30, 2016

rteetz said:
I'm going to be honest I don't even know what this clock cleaner thing is you guys are talking about.

It is a cartoon with I believe Mickey, Goofy, and Donald cleaning a clock tower that is sort of built like Big Ben. You would probably recognize it. If I'm not mistaken it used to be on the magical express that they would play while waiting for the bus to leave and after the video would play. I could be wrong about that part though.

http://video.disney.com/watch/clock-cleaners-4be38810aeb92a0e1266b068

rteetz · Jul 30, 2016

mom2rtk said:
I'll be honest. I didn't know either, until I just googled it and see that it's a 1937 short. That's why I went out on a limb and guessed it would sell less merchandise than GotG. My point being that the parks seem more than ever before to be an extension of the merchandising department.

tarheelblue8853 said:
It is a cartoon with I believe Mickey, Goofy, and Donald cleaning a clock tower that is sort of built like Big Ben. You would probably recognize it. If I'm not mistaken it used to be on the magical express that they would play while waiting for the bus to leave and after the video would play. I could be wrong about that part though.

http://video.disney.com/watch/clock-cleaners-4be38810aeb92a0e1266b068

While I love classic Mickey shorts they would never change tower of terror to that. And like mom2rtk said that wouldn't sell merchandise which is one of their major goals.

mom2rtk · Jul 30, 2016

rteetz said:
While I love classic Mickey shorts they would never change tower of terror to that. And like mom2rtk said that wouldn't sell merchandise which is one of their major goals.

I could be totally wrong here. But any more it feels like they say "what attraction could we put in that would help sell a lot of merchandise". Back when the parks opened it felt like they were just after the best attractions they could dream up, and the merchandise naturally followed out of those great experiences.

rteetz · Jul 30, 2016

mom2rtk said:
I could be totally wrong here. But any more it feels like they say "what attraction could we put in that would help sell a lot of merchandise". Back when the parks opened it felt like they were just after the best attractions they could dream up, and the merchandise naturally followed out of those great experiences.

Yep. That's the big difference in today's management vs the past. Heck the head of parks and resorts is the former consumer products head.

Josh Hendy · Jul 30, 2016

They could have their merchandise sales and everything else they want if they could just figure out how to make an over-arching plan and then sell the plan on its merits. Like, we're building a stupendous new Superheroes land, here are the exciting new attractions planned and here's how a re-imagined Tower fits into our great new land.

Otherwise the DLR overlay is bound to raise people's hackles ... and has done so. And the rumored Epcot stuff just has people scratching their heads. Okay we needed more and newer rides but ... what the heck is your plan for this park?

Disney should enjoy the luxury they have right now to get away with quick and expedient theme-busting overlays. Cause the moment that Uni drops the press release and concept art for Park III ... Disney better hope that Shanghai is making enough money to start subsidizing WDW enhancements in a very big way.

PuppyJonathan · Jul 30, 2016

old lady said:
I actually believe that it would make more sense to remodel the tower of terrors ride on the old Disney cartoon, The clock cleaners.

Why do I now want to see this

Mouse of Mystery · Jul 31, 2016

I have really fond memories of visiting Epcot when it opened. I was 13, which was a great age for that park at the time. I was completely in love with the vision of the future and the technology, and tolerated some of the preachier parts because it was wrapped in a sufficient amount of fun.

But that model is not sustainable. Realistically, there was no way Disney could update its futuristic vision fast enough to keep it from looking dated. It was the greatest world's fair of all time and I'm really glad that I could experience it.

The world has changed, however, and corporations are more interested in social media than dropping millions into an attraction on a regular basis. If there were sponsors to be had, you can be sure that Future World wouldn't have slowly degraded into a decaying monument to an aging vision. We have to move forward.

Regardless of your feelings about Ellen's UoE, I think we can all agree that it is a ride that doesn't get the traffic that a ride of that size should. If you're honest, you can probably admit that it is no longer a very good ride. It fit in really well with the old Future World, but that's gone.

The biggest problem we all have is that we don't know what Disney has in mind for the park. But looking at the recent FW projects, it doesn't appear that they are completely abandoning the idea of learning. I think the most important thing is that Ellen's UoE is replaced with a quality ride. The IP won't matter much if it is good. I can easily see them taking the DCA ToT idea of The Collector and translating that into an exciting ride with a hint of conservation, especially if the ride is accompanied by a small activity area.

The new Future World looks like it's going to be focused on:

1. Exciting eperiences
2. Educational elements that enhance the ride but are not the focus.

The EPCOT/World's Fair model we all got to enjoy is done and we are faced with a park that's badly in need of help. Maybe someone at Disney will see to it to share their vision with the public, but until then, we should all be glad that it is finally getting some attention!

ColoradoDreamin · Jul 31, 2016

rteetz said:
Yep. That's the big difference in today's management vs the past. Heck the head of parks and resorts is the former consumer products head.

Many would argue that this was walts plan as well. It is a lot different when you start a theme park then when you are years into a successful theme park. A lot of history shows that Walt was very much about the same as management today, media just wasn't as extensive back then

rteetz · Jul 31, 2016

ColoradoDreamin said:
Many would argue that this was walts plan as well. It is a lot different when you start a theme park then when you are years into a successful theme park. A lot of history shows that Walt was very much about the same as management today, media just wasn't as extensive back then

That's probably true. I think with WDW though Walt was never really focused on the theme park business. His big project that he cared about was Epcot. That man if he lived would've somehow seen that project through. Who knows if it would've exactly looked like he imagined but Walt would've tried for sure.

With DHS Ron Miller the CEO before Eisner was ready to build a studio style park in partnership with universal... Eisner came in canned that idea, and fast tracked MGM studios.

wareagle57 · Jul 31, 2016

mom2rtk said:
The problem of course is that people probably wouldn't buy Clock Cleaners merchandise in the quantity that Disney hopes to sell GotG merchandise.

I'll admit this is anecdotal and maybe I'm not the average guest, but I am not a merchandise person in general. But Tower of Terror is one of the only gift shops I stop in and have to restrain myself from buying half the store.

Guardians of the (Epcot) Galaxy

DIS Veteran

Yo ho, yo ho, a parrot's life for me

Earning My Ears

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

Earning My Ears

DIS Veteran

Invented the term "Characterpalooza"

DIS Veteran

Invented the term "Characterpalooza"

Mouseketeer

DIS Veteran

Invented the term "Characterpalooza"

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

Mouseketeer

Mouseketeer

DIS Veteran

DIS Veteran

Share this page