Kevin's Rant

SorcererHeidi said:

I'm s sorry to hear about your mom's panic attack I hope she still has fond memories of being able to spend her grandson's birthday with him anyway. And, as someone who has had spinal fusion (in my neck), I hope her recovery goes well.

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Thanks and I really don't think anything could have truly messed up that proud Nanny's trip. She's already excited to go again since she's able to move some without a cane for the first time in years. We know there will never be another non ECV trip but I think we all have a better idea what to expect next time. Really the only "looks" we got were at the bus stops but my wife said years ago civility doesn't exist on Disney transportation.

DisneyKevin said:

I hope my message isn't that anyone is guilty or innocent.

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Of course. I didn't mean to imply that at all, Kevin.

Anyone with a "get out of my way" attitude is probably not going to do well at Disney.

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Oh, sounds like you've met my MIL.

My comments were for the folks that get dirty looks, nasty comments and foul language because of a mobility impairment.

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Totally understood, and I agree 100%. People need to get over themselves and have some common respect and decency for others.

DisneyKevin said:

I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean or what it is that you disagree with, but as you can see from what others have posted, people in chairs and scooters are often mistreated, sneered at and disrespected.

This is often accompanied by rude comments about weight and using a chair/scooter just get to the front of the line.

As has been pointed out....this doesn't work as there is no benefit to using a chair/scooter. Almost everything at WDW has been mainstreamed and everyone waits in the same line.

I suggest that anyone who thinks that folks with mobility issues have an easier time of it to try it for a day and see how much LESS easy it really is to get around.

If you don't think this is true...then I dare you to try it.

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Having an ECV in Disney world is definitely NOT a piece of cake! My MIL has had to use one for our past 3 trips because her legs just dont work as well as they used to. Thank the stars she has patience because between the waiting for people to move, starting and stopping for groups of people walking slowly, the maneuvering around objects and crowds, it's quite trying! I get stressed out about it and I'm not even in the chair! I completely agree that it is LESS easy. This year when we go in September, my MIL AND my FIL will both be needing ECV's. While I know it will probably add a bit of stress to our touring, at the end of the day, they NEED them, so we do what we gotta do. Trust me, they don't need snide remarks and sideways glances on top of already handling the struggle of maneuvering an ECV through the crowded streets of a Disney park.

What are people emailing him about challenging his issues? Kevin might be coming off a bit abrasive, but remember he's experienced the discrimination, looks, eyerolls and stares first hand.

For me, what I took away, was to jus be a bit more aware and curtious how you treat others who don't enjoy the simple life luxuries you may be afforded daily....even if it means you MIGHT need to take the next bus, I know ...the horror

Having never traveled with someone in an ECV, I learned a little about how difficult it can be from my aunt, who travels to WDW solo. She has COPD so she uses oxygen, plus an ECV in the parks (and to get to/from her room, etc). She went by herself for the first time last November and while she said she had a wonderful time and liked the alone time, it was really difficult for her in ways she had not thought of beforehand. Such as getting into her resort room, getting a tray of food, refilling a drink. Simple things that we all take for granted because we are not in their position.

She had a horrible time at Cape May Cafe. She said at every buffet she went to she had no problems and a Cast Member was more than happy to help get her food and take it back to her table. She said here they sat her in an awkward spot back near the kitchen, and then a different CM came over and told her she would have to move. The other CM had put her there, so she didn't understand why. She had already gotten comfortable and had a plate of food so she didn't get why they were telling her to move. Also, physically, it would be difficult for her to do so. Eventually the manager came over and pretty much told her she had to move and there was no way around it because she was in the way. So she chose to leave. It made me so upset thinking of her alone in a restaurant having to deal with that, especially when she had been looking forward to that meal. So even though it wasn't in a park, it made me realize how difficult it must be just to get around and do things that we all take for granted. I always appreciate Kevin's insights on this topic.

I had the opportunity several years ago to be in the position to have a family member with me at the parks that needed to use a scooter. I was floored at the rudeness of guests...not just running in front of the moving scooter (and as Kevin said, they don't just stop instantly) but making comments that we were in the way. The CMs were awesome when it came time to the rides and such....but oh my....trying to make room to eat at Casey's was a nightmare......then we got to the Hub early to secure a place to watch the parade...we were off to the side up against the rail.....we had people crawling over the front of the scooter to get inside the fence and then someone actually tried to sit on the basket on the front of the scooter !! When I (politely) spoke to them about not sitting there...then they "pretended" not to speak English.....

It's definitely not pleasant for those that need to use wheelchairs or scooters.

Vernie822 said:

Having never traveled with someone in an ECV, I learned a little about how difficult it can be from my aunt, who travels to WDW solo. She has COPD so she uses oxygen, plus an ECV in the parks (and to get to/from her room, etc). She went by herself for the first time last November and while she said she had a wonderful time and liked the alone time, it was really difficult for her in ways she had not thought of beforehand. Such as getting into her resort room, getting a tray of food, refilling a drink. Simple things that we all take for granted because we are not in their position.

She had a horrible time at Cape May Cafe. She said at every buffet she went to she had no problems and a Cast Member was more than happy to help get her food and take it back to her table. She said here they sat her in an awkward spot back near the kitchen, and then a different CM came over and told her she would have to move. The other CM had put her there, so she didn't understand why. She had already gotten comfortable and had a plate of food so she didn't get why they were telling her to move. Also, physically, it would be difficult for her to do so. Eventually the manager came over and pretty much told her she had to move and there was no way around it because she was in the way. So she chose to leave. It made me so upset thinking of her alone in a restaurant having to deal with that, especially when she had been looking forward to that meal. So even though it wasn't in a park, it made me realize how difficult it must be just to get around and do things that we all take for granted. I always appreciate Kevin's insights on this topic.

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So sorry to hear about the bad experiences you aunt had, especially with the CM's at Cap May - SHAME on them! And I must comment on one small facet of how much harder things are to do with "limitations", relating to what you said your aunt also experienced. I started carrying a cane full-time about 5 years ago. One of the things I used to love to do on a Sat. morning was go to "the first show of the day" at a movie theater in a mall that is close to my hose. Not only was it cheaper/much less crowded, but I'd also go to the mall's food court usually right abound when the "lunch crowd" was just starting - huge mall, so wouldn't catch me there when it gets REALLY crowded. Anyway - over time - I almost never go t food courts now - with the cane "taking away" the use of one whole hand (and my dominant one, at that!) it becomes too much for me to carry a tray or even a bag of food and a soft drink around, with my purse and whatever else I might have with me, to hunt for a table. So found myself going to a "sit down place" more and more for the convenience, which - of course - was also more expensive, or I had to wait longer for a table, etc. Between that, and the price of the movies going up, and the sit down meals going up, I started going less and less. A "strange side effect" of trying to "deal with life with a disability" I would never have previously given any thought to.

Last year I went to Florida for 9 weeks, 5 of them I spent at Universal Studios Orlando and for the first time in a scoot mobile.
I can walk (a bit) and stand (a short time) but a lot of pain is the result. I could do about 3 rides or shows with the help of the scoot mobile and the excelent guest assistance card. I can do this twice a week and the rest of the time I had to get up to strength again at our rental home. Life sucks but making the step to sit in that big red vehicle with my fat *** or stay at home is amazingly difficult. I had tears in my eyes the first time I road it and felt terrible.
Thankfully the people working at the attraction entrances and locations you have to be to get in and out of a ride or show are super nice at Universal and make me feel welcome and, well a bit less handicapt I think.
Sure there are guests who don't watch if you are close to me and you put your foot under my car then there is a chance I'll run over you foot. I'm sorry but there is nothing I can do about that. My view is butts and crotches the whole time and it's not a pritty sight (most of the time). Because I can't work anymore unfortunately I can go on vacation whenever I please and I try to find low season to not bother to much people but believe me that I didn't asked for this, it;s not my choise.

In November this year my family and I probably will come for the last time to the US, ever. I thought it would be nice to have a disapaloza meeting in there to meet the people I watch on internet all the time and to maybe be able to see the queue of Gringots (I heard it's amazing). I did the ride twice and love it but only been in a tight golden elevator and that is pritty much the highlight of the queue so I was glad they arrange we wheelers can see the queue for once. But then I heard people are complaining about handicapt people in wheelchairs and EV's and now I'm doubting if I should go. Sure I paid for me and my mum already but do I want to be in a place where I was thinking we where sharing a passion for theme parks and want as much people to enjoy our pasion and love for it without exceptions but it seems that is not the case for some...and it makes me very sad.
I don't want your pitty, don't need your objections, I just would like that we take care of each other and make each others life a bit more magical (even at Universal). If you have a problem with me or don't understand some thing about me or my ev, just come up to me and ask me. But don't talk behind my back, then I won't comment on your butt ;-)

I think that people who make rude comments about People in ECVs and wheelchairs or climb over them have forgotten something. Good Manners.

I've listened to the rant a few times, and really want to thank Kevin for all he said. I'm 35, and have needed an ECV at the parks thanks to a leg amputation. My first trip to Disney after my amputation, I had to put up with several comments about using an ECV on a Disney bus. I was accused of ruining a vacation, since they would now be late to a reservation, and nobody ever wants to get up and offer me a seat even if I'm just on my crutches.

I've had the same experience about people not talking to me directly. I've always just assumed folks are uncomfortable interacting with a disabled person. My next trip I'm going to have to pay more attention to how people interact with me.

I'm happy to see that the folks on these boards are awesome about disabilities, and I'm happy to finally sign up to be a member of these boards. Thank you again Kevin. Keep the rants coming!

Welcome aboard DisneyRPh. I hope the show, the boards, and Dis'ers can bring this issue more to the forefront

I think sometimes accidents happen and people don't always look or don't expect for a wheelchair or ECV to be in there path/ For example I was in a subway station her in Toronto and had come up the stairs and was walking over to a platform to board a streetcar. Between the platform and the stairs was an elevator that someone in a powered wheelchair was in, I had unknowingly stepped in their way due to walking with the crowed heading in the same direction I was. They ended up just brushing past me as they told me to watch out, the only way I would have know where they were was of I had eyes in the back of my head.

Now that does not mean that I'm not courteous to someone in one I just think we all need to watch out for each other in the parks, the same goes for strollers too. people are unpredictable what direction they may go in.

That being said rude comments and stepping over a parked wheelchair with someone in it is just wrong.

JenniBugInPink said:

This really is THE point - there is no benefit to using an ECV: You don't get to ride ANY SOONER, you don't get a better seat (most times it's in the very back), you do get on the bus first BUT YOU GET OFF LAST! You can't see anything but peoples butts, people call you names, say things about you that you wouldn't believe, and treat you like you're lazy, ugly, and a waste of oxygen, food and water. None of my illnesses are visible, but I'd gladly trade away my constant pain from osteo and rheumatoid arthritis, my exhaustion from my still working but failing kidneys, Sjogren's Syndrome, anemia, and immunodeficiency disease (CVID). But, they just see me as overweight and lazy and have no problem openly treating me that way.

What I don't understand is where civility in our society went. I don't think people always treated each other so poorly. But it has been this way for some time. I had surgery about 20 years ago and was on crutches, and you can't imagine the number of people who wouldn't open doors, or would just let them close in my face. I use a manual wheelchair here at home, and again, people will go out of their way to walk around my chair to open a door and go in, but not hold it open for me. It still floors me every time.

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Come to Louisiana we still open doors and help people. Everyone makes fun of people from the south about educational etc. from my experience from traveling , southern people are very friendly . I'm so sorry that you have to go through what you do. I would hold the door open for you anyday.

disneydad78 said:

Come to Louisiana we still open doors and help people. Everyone makes fun of people from the south about educational etc. from my experience from traveling , southern people are very friendly . I'm so sorry that you have to go through what you do. I would hold the door open for you anyday.

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I think most places are like that the problem is sometimes now you have people who are disabled look down on someone offering help or holding doors it's often hard to judge if someone wants you to or not.

disneydad78 said:

Come to Louisiana we still open doors and help people. Everyone makes fun of people from the south about educational etc. from my experience from traveling , southern people are very friendly . I'm so sorry that you have to go through what you do. I would hold the door open for you anyday.

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I'm Southern already, LOL. Born and bred in Virginia (and quite proud of it), and currently living in TN (not so proud of that - it's a backward, provincial state - I've told my husband to drag me across the state line before I take my last breath!). I'm afraid that the younger generations of Southerners may be losing some of our gentility.

I also think that there has been change in attitude about disabled people in general, particularly since there is a feeling that many are taking advantage of governmental programs when they don't qualify. I think that distrust carries over to how people treat those who are in a position of needing assistance (using scooters, etc.) in public. People seem suspicious of anyone who doesn't look disabled enough in their opinion. If they can't see the disability, then it doesn't "count".

EastYorkDisneyFan said:

I think most places are like that the problem is sometimes now you have people who are disabled look down on someone offering help or holding doors it's often hard to judge if someone wants you to or not.

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Unless the person looks like they're about to enter multiple events in the Paralympics, you're pretty safe offering to lend a hand. I think it would be pretty rare that offense would be taken. In my age group (55+), I bet nobody complains!

JenniBugInPink said:

Unless the person looks like they're about to enter multiple events in the Paralympics, you're pretty safe offering to lend a hand. I think it would be pretty rare that offense would be taken. In my age group (55+), I bet nobody complains!

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good point. I usually do try and hold the door for most people when I am going through it as well, most poel also do the same for me too. Sometimes though if someone is behind you you don't always see the or look for them. Like my example earlier of cutting someone in a wheelchair off. Pole don't always expect to have someone come up quick behind them or beside them when they are walking forwards. The same can be said for a stroller too.