Ways to avoid "Gas Lighting" your kids on your Disney Vacation.

[Alicenwonderment]

After reading this article http://groundedparents.com/2014/11/26/can-we-please-stop-gaslighting-our-kids/ I figured that you all might have great advice to avoid this at the parks.

 

[gwynne]

After reading this article http://groundedparents.com/2014/11/26/can-we-please-stop-gaslighting-our-kids/ I figured that you all might have great advice to avoid this at the parks.

Gaslighting is very serious psychological abuse over a period of time.

I'm not sure how something like that would relate to the average family enjoying a vacation together.

 

[siskaren]

Gaslighting is very serious psychological abuse over a period of time.

I'm not sure how something like that would relate to the average family enjoying a vacation together.

Did you read the article? I'm not sure "gaslighting" is the best term to use, but the article is basically about helping children deal with holiday overload, which can be applied to WDW as well.

 

[2Gma]

I skimmed most of the article (which now I think about it probably credited someone's webpage, whoops I fell it!) but the message I got was that yes, the "gas lighting" concept is bad (was curious what this was, never heard of it) and that we do it to our kids by constantly expecting them to behave no matter what the circumstances are (I suppose that is how Disney ties in). Then article went on to say how we need to make sure we take time to make sure our kids needs are met and then we can expect much better behavior.

 

[gwynne]

Did you read the article? I'm not sure "gaslighting" is the best term to use, but the article is basically about helping children deal with holiday overload, which can be applied to WDW as well.

Yes I read the article.

They use the term gaslighting and attempt to explain it, not terribly well, especially in terms of the long term serious psychological damage it causes.

Umm..of course, holiday overload would be a much better (and far more accurate) term.
Gaslighting is not a term that should be used lightly, JMO.

 

[Alesia]

Gaslighting is very serious psychological abuse over a period of time.

I'm not sure how something like that would relate to the average family enjoying a vacation together.

Well, yes. But the article the OP linked to is trending on facebook, so you can expect to see the term used a lot in this watered-down form. "Gas lighting" is set to become the new "bullying."

 

[kamik86]

Honestly I don't think this is such a big deal. I loved the holidays as a kid. Maybe it was becasue Santa at the mall didn't have a two hour line (still doesn't at our mall) and the relatives I had dinner with with are close family and we had the same expectations on how to behave at dinner as well every other night for dinner.

No one in my family expects you to sit at the table when your done. You can get up if you want. Adults might start cleaning th kitchen before everone finishes and the kids are generally off playing, they got served first after all, makes sense that they would finish first.

Maybe if this person has such an issue with tantrums at the holidays she needs to look at these practices but I don't remember issues when I was a kid. My great nephew got through Thanksgiving without a tantrum (he is 15 months now). I don't remember the older nieces having issues either.


Honestly most of the time I think we expect too little of kids and that when people have expectations of them they rise to meet them. I know kids did better with councelors that were a bit more rigid at the camp I worked with then ones that had no rules not dictated by the camp. We didn't even have to punish them, if you always have the expectation that you don't yell and run around the camp site you don't have to worry about them doing so when there is a fire for example!

I even saw it with parents. The parents that on parent tour day would answer every question for their kids would say their kids were shy and the kids would hide behind mom... 2 minutes after mom left they were friends with half the camp!

 

[eeyoreandtink]

I get what the article is saying, and I agree with it... to an extent. We as parents shouldn't put our kids in situations where they are set up to fail. I don't however feel that its wrong to teach them that public meltdowns are unacceptable. Saying that you are not allowed to subject others to an obnoxious display of your anger and frustration is NOT the same as saying you are not allowed to feel that way. I feel that telling children that they need to calm down is NOT wrong. Its teaching them appropriate social behavior. The middle of a crowded department store is not the appropriate place to teach coping skills or try to reason with a toddler. "Calm down now or we are leaving" is the appropriate response.

 

[Skywise]

"sitting through three-hour ballets,"
*cough* Fantasia *cough*

 

[gwynne]

Well, yes. But the article the OP linked to is trending on facebook, so you can expect to see the term used a lot in this watered-down form. "Gas lighting" is set to become the new "bullying."

Language can evolve, that's for sure. It hasn't evolved yet with this word.
It might not be a great idea for someone to make a big announcement like, "We're trying to cut back on gaslighting our kids".

I guess sometimes there is an upside. Maybe the Facebook interest will cause some to watch next time Gaslight is on TCM.
The movie explains the concept pretty well.

 

[AngiTN]

I haven't read the article and based on this response, I don't plan to. I know I won't agree with it

I get what the article is saying, and I agree with it... to an extent. We as parents shouldn't put our kids in situations where they are set up to fail. I don't however feel that its wrong to teach them that public meltdowns are unacceptable. Saying that you are not allowed to subject others to an obnoxious display of your anger and frustration is NOT the same as saying you are not allowed to feel that way. I feel that telling children that they need to calm down is NOT wrong. Its teaching them appropriate social behavior. The middle of a crowded department store is not the appropriate place to teach coping skills or try to reason with a toddler. "Calm down now or we are leaving" is the appropriate response.

If the article is trying to infer that by requiring children to behave in public parents are "gaslighting" the kids I want to slap whoever wrote it. They are the types that are putting kids out in the world that throw fits no one wants to witness. Behaving in public is not up for negotiating or debate in my world. It is done, or else. Fits can be thrown at home but never, ever in view of others.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Not getting this article. When I was a kid we drove hours and hours to visit relatives almost every holiday. My brother still does this on certain holidays with his kids. Should nobody be doing this because when the kids get restless, it's "gaslighting?" The parents also used to take us to see choral presentations at the Kennedy Center. When you are a kid that is pretty boring. But gaslighting??? Would locking them up in a plane for a few hours be better? Or just going to movies or events that THEY want to experience? Or are they suggesting you just stay home? And for goodness sake if your kid doesn't want to sit on Santa's lap don't make them do it, but geez, saying going to visit Santa is "gaslighting?"

Nobody's asking the kids to act like adults or to stifle their emotions, but they do need to learn to have patience and bear it with grace. I do not know if the author is using the broad brush, but if they are suggesting that expecting children to behave in public is "gaslighting" then I can't say I agree with that.

Maybe, don't force your kid to ride anything they aren't ready for.

 

[AngiTN]

Not getting this article. When I was a kid we drove hours and hours to visit relatives almost every holiday. My brother still does this on certain holidays with his kids. Should nobody be doing this because when the kids get restless, it's "gaslighting?" The parents also used to take us to see choral presentations at the Kennedy Center. When you are a kid that is pretty boring. But gaslighting??? Would locking them up in a plane for a few hours be better? Or just going to movies or events that THEY want to experience? Or are they suggesting you just stay home? And for goodness sake if your kid doesn't want to sit on Santa's lap don't make them do it, but geez, saying going to visit Santa is "gaslighting?"

Nobody's asking the kids to act like adults or to stifle their emotions, but they do need to learn to have patience and bear it with grace. I do not know if the author is using the broad brush, but if they are suggesting that expecting children to behave in public is "gaslighting" then I can't say I agree with that.

Yeah, I think the author really believe this way.
I get the feeling that the person that wrote this is one of those parents that let their children rule the house. Can't use the word no for fear of "stifling their emotional growth" or other such nonsense. We've all come across children like this. Usually they are the ones screaming bloody murder at the restaurant because they haven't a clue how to act in public.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

If that's what the author believes, then I'd assume the author doesn't bring the kiddies to upscale restaurants or PG 13 - R rated movies.

 

[bumbershoot]

Honestly I don't think this is such a big deal.

From what you said, that's because you grew up in a decent family.

No one in my family expects you to sit at the table when your done. You can get up if you want.

This is awesome. This is NOT the sort of family that everyone grows up in. My mom and dad, separately, made the "good eater", well-behaved, did-as-they-said daughter sit at the table until her brother (then later, with dad, brotherS) finished all of the food he despised. And I had to just sit there. And wait. And wait. That's not nice at all.

That was the only case where my mom did that; still not sure why she made that choice, but it didn't mean she made other choices. My dad, however yikes. And it's b/c he was brought up far too strictly. Instead of being taught how to be good on long car trips, HIS mom just drugged all 8 of her kids for long drives. So they slept and never learned coping skills. (now their coping skill for boredom seems to be drawn out devil's advocate type arguments which is NOT fun)

Anyway, you didn't experience it, so of course it's not a big deal for you!

If the article is trying to infer that by requiring children to behave in public parents are "gaslighting" the kids I want to slap whoever wrote it.

If you're going to have a violent response to something, you might as well read it.


And NO. In the article it's saying gaslighting partially means that natural feelings aren't allowed. It's talking about helping to set kids up for success; to NOT create an impossible situation and then punish for a human response. It's not NOT teaching them how to behave, but also talking about the adults not being jerks.

I don't know how mental health professionals use the term, and I don't actually care. I've seen the movie a million times, and to me it's all about a person setting up impossible situations and then denying that the situation is happening when the other person complains about it.* It's a terrific term, if one has seen the source material for it.


OP, Disney has taught me so much about how to set up for success AND for failure!

That one time at Disneyland, at 8:30pm, when DS was throwing a tantrum about not getting a souvenir, and when DH started in on him (playing the role of his father, where emotions weren't allowed and children must listen and never express themselves), I COULD have just gone along with it. Thankfully I thought back...when was the last time we ate? Ah, that would be 11:30am, for lunch. Perhaps, just maybe, food could be an issue?

So I told them to both hold their tongues until they got food in them. Ran to the closest place still open with food they could have, got them food, and all was well. It really taught us all that success at Disney means *good food*, regularly.




ETA:
*A few years back my blinders were finally taken off in regards to my father. We were at a family reunion of his, and one morning he was simply ridiculous. We didn't even get going until nearly noon, when none of us had had breakfast or coffee. Including my then 6 year old. Then we drove and drove and drove, and we needed food and I needed coffee and we also needed a store to make sure we had food for DS at the reunion picnic (we're vegetarian and he has sensitivities). Turns out Phoenix doesn't have signs on the highway to let you know what's off the exit, it's a thing they do. Made my dad get off the highway, we found a Denny's. Blood sugar low, coffee level drastically low, kid hungry, STRESSED. Righteously angry at my dad not listening to me or his grandson. And father labeled me as "going crazy".

I was 40 and I finally realized what a huge jerk he was. And this has come up again today because my oldest half brother just accused me of "going off the rails" because of something on facebook. That something was a quote, a direct copy/paste, from a weather site, along with conversation with a fellow asthmatic about the air quality. He's so primed to see me as off kilter, thanks to our father, that he didn't even see the quotes around the all-caps advisory from accuweather, LOL.

Anyway, some of us still live this situation, of parental people setting things up and telling us that the situation doesn't exist or is different than how it actually is. And honestly? It IS psychological abuse. Keep it up for decades and you end up with one messed up situation.

 

[wilkeliza]

I think the author doesn't realize what the difference between gas lighting and expectations are. In true abusive gas lighting you convince someone that their perception is wrong. So if your child keeps telling you they are tired you continuously say no you aren't until they believe you. In the play he turns down the lights and when his wife notices he says no I didn't you are just delusional. He forced her to believe he didn't turn down the lights even though he did.

Now what I think a parent should do is acknowledge the child's feelings but tell them in this situation you can not react that way. So for instance in the hours upon hours of car rides. Acknowledge that your child is uncomfortable in their seat belt but remind them that it is the law and for safety that they have to keep it on. Acknowledge that they are bored but remind them screaming in the car distracts the driver and creates unsafe conditions. Of course this only works for older kids but even with a toddler you can say I understand you are upset/overwhelmed/angry at me but you will not express it that way and if it continues we will go home. You can acknowledge a meltdown with out giving into one.

 

[SparklePixie]

I think, in many cases, parents expect too little out of their children. Expectations are a good thing, imo. They teach kids what is acceptable in different situations.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I think, in many cases, parents expect too little out of their children. Expectations are a good thing, imo. They teach kids what is acceptable in different situations.

This.

 

[AngiTN]

If you're going to have a violent response to something, you might as well read it.

I did opt to start reading it. But had to stop when they said that if you are a woman you probably have experienced gas lighting in the context of a personal or professional relationship. That is simply absurd to say that

I'm not sure how I can see any relation to a vacation to Disney at all.

 

[gwynne]

[QUOTE="bumbershoot, post: 54796838, member: 141567"
If you're going to have a violent response to something, you might as well read it.

I did opt to start reading it. But had to stop when they said that if you are a woman you probably have experienced gas lighting in the context of a personal or professional relationship. That is simply absurd to say that

I'm not sure how I can see any relation to a vacation to Disney at all.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how it relates to Disney, either.
And once again, gaslighting is a specific kind of intentionally cruel, long term emotional abuse. It's very serious stuff. It's not some sort of occasional casual misunderstanding.
I agree it's absurd to say most of us have experienced it.

I think the "author" may be befuddled. As mentioned upthread, holiday overload might have been the concept she was attempting to address.