Ways to avoid "Gas Lighting" your kids on your Disney Vacation.

[jtowntoflorida]

OP, if you're asking how to help your children avoid meltdowns while at Disney, my advice would be to carry plenty of high-quality snacks (fruit, veggies, and protein; we carry cheesesticks and nuts) because while the parks are full of food, most of it is processed, sugary crap. We also take our own water and make sure everyone drinks plenty of it. We watch the kids for tiredness and take a rest if needed, and everyone takes a turn on picking what to do next. We don't overschedule ourselves and don't freak out if we're running behind for an appointment (i.e., FP+ or ADR).

I think the debate about what the article is or isn't is silly. I think what the OP was asking was how to have a successful Disney vacation with kids; whatever terms you want to use to frame that question are just semantics.

 

[loves to dive]

This.

Agree.

I grew up in a family of 6 kids, trust me we went to restaurants, we went on long car trips, we went to Disneyland and not a single one of us would even think about throwing a tantrum or complaining about being bored. Well, we might think about it but just once, Mama always knew what we were thinking. I shutter to think what would have happened had one of us thrown a tantrum in public. We never asked why when told to do something, we knew the answer was because I said so (I'll admit to having used that one myself on my kid). Yes, the boys got whipped (I'm the only girl and we are southern so you don't hit a girl no matter what, I got punished, I can't tell you how many weeks I spent in my bedroom only to come out except for meals, school and bathroom with my brother's walking by every once in a while teasing me). If you have 6 kids with only 5 years between the oldest and youngest and no twins, discipline is a must. I'm not saying my brother's weren't holy terrors, they were typical boys always into something. Our house was a lot like the movie Please Don't Eat the Daisies and my mom was pretty much that mom. You got your head caught in the stair rail - why were you sticking it in there to start with, o.k. let's saw the rail off and wait until your dad gets home and hears about this. You threw a spear at your brother and put a hole in his head? Why, oh you were playing tarzan and he was a native. Well, let's slap a bandage on it since it was always Wednesday and the doctor wasn't in on Wednesday, and if it's still bleeding tomorrow we'll take you to the doctor. And wait until your dad gets home and hears about this. You are telling on your brother, well wait until your dad gets home and hears about what your brother did and oh by the way wait til he hears you told on him. It didn't scar any of us, as a matter of fact we have very fond memories of our childhood, it was filled with emotions, laughter, yelling, fighting, music and chaos.

 

[minnie mum]

After reading this article http://groundedparents.com/2014/11/26/can-we-please-stop-gaslighting-our-kids/ I figured that you all might have great advice to avoid this at the parks.

Did anybody read the bio blurb of the author of the article cited by the OP? It pretty much solidified my opinion that it's a garbage article written by someone with no actual knowledge of what really constitutes gaslighting, and has tried to twist it to fit her agenda. And I agree that given how she describes herself, she is likely the type who has never said no or given her kids a time out in their short, perfect lives.

I really wished the OP had simply asked for advice on managing children's expectations on a WDW trip, and how to avoid melt downs. It probably would have resulted in a much more productive thread. Instead we're embroiled in a discussion on the merits of that piece of dreck.

 

[AngiTN]

Did anybody read the bio blurb of the author of the article cited by the OP? It pretty much solidified my opinion that it's a garbage article written by someone with no actual knowledge of what really constitutes gaslighting, and has tried to twist it to fit her agenda. And I agree that given how she describes herself, she is likely the type who has never said no or given her kids a time out in their short, perfect lives.

I really wished the OP had simply asked for advice on managing children's expectations on a WDW trip, and how to avoid melt downs. It probably would have resulted in a much more productive thread. Instead we're embroiled in a discussion on the merits of that piece of dreck.

Yes, I didn't even realize the OP was after advice on how best to have happy kids at Disney. I really thought they were equating that article (love your use of dreck) with Disney trips.

 

[mshanson3121]

Yes, OP, I think it was poorly worded. This article has nothing to do with Disney burnout. Gaslighting is a a serious form of psychological abuse. It's not even close to the same thing as "Disney burn out".

So, if you want to avoid Disney burn out - it's pretty simple. Drink fluids, eat healthy snacks, gets lots of rest via taking breaks within the park, or back at your hotel and making sure they get a decent sleep, take a rest day or two if needed, and follow your kids lead - if they're getting tired, or overwhelmed, don't push them. Pretty well common sense stuff that every decent parent would do.

 

[GPC0321]

It's scary that a term like "gas lighting" is being used in this context. Pretty soon, no one will be able to raise children or teach them a thing because it might involve the children being unhappy or upset. Heaven forbid.

Children have to be taught self-control, patience, and tolerance. They have to learn how to cope with situations that are not ideal. That's part of growing into a functioning adult. It doesn't matter if you're tired, hungry, sick, or angry, unless you are wearing a diaper and drinking from a bottle, you are expected to start dealing with these less-than-ideal circumstances in an appropriate way. Screaming and crying is what babies do because they haven't yet developed to the point that they can have a more appropriate reaction. It's the parents' job to begin teaching the correct responses instead of making excuses for inappropriate behavior (ie: Oh, he's tired, hungry, etc.") The child may BE tired or hungry, but at what point are they going to learn that being tired and hungry does not mean acting like a brat to everyone? It's not acceptable behavior. Period. And as a high school teacher, I can tell you that when they get to be 16 years old and STILL haven't learned how to cope when things aren't ideal, it can get downright ugly/scary. They're the ones that curse, fight, and destroy things when they are upset because they are still infants/toddlers developmentally when it comes to coping with certain situations. And they are the adults who can never keep a job or any sort of stability in their lives because they've never learned how to be responsible for their own reactions to situations. They quit jobs, walk out of marriages, neglect their own children, etc. because they've never learned how to push through and DEAL with stressful situations.

It's a vicious cycle, and those who mean well by sheltering their little darlings early in life are only setting them up for a lifetime of hardships when they are faced with situations they cannot handle.

I rode many a mile in the backseat of a car with my brother hogging most of the seat and tormenting me. There were no TV screens with movies playing, no video games or cell phones. There was the view outside the window and books. And we listened to our parents discussing whatever parents discuss about the world, listened to the music on the radio that our parents listened to (which I still love today), and knew that if we misbehaved we were in for it when that car stopped. That's not "gas lighting", that's raising children.

 

[DisneyOma]

From the small part I read (I got to the woman-as-perpetual-victim part and rolled my eyes) it seems the writer is a professional victim and expects her children to become victims too. Why is putting a child in an uncomfortable situation and teaching that child how to deal with it so hard for some parents? Do they not want to take the time and effort to raise the child they chose to have to be independent and productive, a valued part of society, a functioning human being?

 

[mshanson3121]

It's scary that a term like "gas lighting" is being used in this context. Pretty soon, no one will be able to raise children or teach them a thing because it might involve the children being unhappy or upset. Heaven forbid.

Children have to be taught self-control, patience, and tolerance. They have to learn how to cope with situations that are not ideal. That's part of growing into a functioning adult. It doesn't matter if you're tired, hungry, sick, or angry, unless you are wearing a diaper and drinking from a bottle, you are expected to start dealing with these less-than-ideal circumstances in an appropriate way. Screaming and crying is what babies do because they haven't yet developed to the point that they can have a more appropriate reaction. It's the parents' job to begin teaching the correct responses instead of making excuses for inappropriate behavior (ie: Oh, he's tired, hungry, etc.") The child may BE tired or hungry, but at what point are they going to learn that being tired and hungry does not mean acting like a brat to everyone? It's not acceptable behavior. Period. And as a high school teacher, I can tell you that when they get to be 16 years old and STILL haven't learned how to cope when things aren't ideal, it can get downright ugly/scary. They're the ones that curse, fight, and destroy things when they are upset because they are still infants/toddlers developmentally when it comes to coping with certain situations. And they are the adults who can never keep a job or any sort of stability in their lives because they've never learned how to be responsible for their own reactions to situations. They quit jobs, walk out of marriages, neglect their own children, etc. because they've never learned how to push through and DEAL with stressful situations.

It's a vicious cycle, and those who mean well by sheltering their little darlings early in life are only setting them up for a lifetime of hardships when they are faced with situations they cannot handle.

I rode many a mile in the backseat of a car with my brother hogging most of the seat and tormenting me. There were no TV screens with movies playing, no video games or cell phones. There was the view outside the window and books. And we listened to our parents discussing whatever parents discuss about the world, listened to the music on the radio that our parents listened to (which I still love today), and knew that if we misbehaved we were in for it when that car stopped. That's not "gas lighting", that's raising children.

Yes, the sad thing is, in today's world, parents are not being "allowed" to teach their children these things any more, because of the so-called "professionals" who tell us we are damaging their little psyche and stifling their emotional development.

 

[Sparkly]

I don't have kids, and my first thought was that well, sometimes you need to learn to do stuff you don't want to do. I never liked going to the mall as a kid because Mum would drag me into her boring clothing shops and I would have to sit and wait for her. (No phones to distract me back then, I had to entertain myself!) I never liked learning my spelling list for our weekly test or my times tables, but I had to do it.

 

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

It's scary that a term like "gas lighting" is being used in this context. Pretty soon, no one will be able to raise children or teach them a thing because it might involve the children being unhappy or upset. Heaven forbid.

Children have to be taught self-control, patience, and tolerance. They have to learn how to cope with situations that are not ideal. That's part of growing into a functioning adult. It doesn't matter if you're tired, hungry, sick, or angry, unless you are wearing a diaper and drinking from a bottle, you are expected to start dealing with these less-than-ideal circumstances in an appropriate way. Screaming and crying is what babies do because they haven't yet developed to the point that they can have a more appropriate reaction. It's the parents' job to begin teaching the correct responses instead of making excuses for inappropriate behavior (ie: Oh, he's tired, hungry, etc.") The child may BE tired or hungry, but at what point are they going to learn that being tired and hungry does not mean acting like a brat to everyone? It's not acceptable behavior. Period. And as a high school teacher, I can tell you that when they get to be 16 years old and STILL haven't learned how to cope when things aren't ideal, it can get downright ugly/scary. They're the ones that curse, fight, and destroy things when they are upset because they are still infants/toddlers developmentally when it comes to coping with certain situations. And they are the adults who can never keep a job or any sort of stability in their lives because they've never learned how to be responsible for their own reactions to situations. They quit jobs, walk out of marriages, neglect their own children, etc. because they've never learned how to push through and DEAL with stressful situations.

It's a vicious cycle, and those who mean well by sheltering their little darlings early in life are only setting them up for a lifetime of hardships when they are faced with situations they cannot handle.

I rode many a mile in the backseat of a car with my brother hogging most of the seat and tormenting me. There were no TV screens with movies playing, no video games or cell phones. There was the view outside the window and books. And we listened to our parents discussing whatever parents discuss about the world, listened to the music on the radio that our parents listened to (which I still love today), and knew that if we misbehaved we were in for it when that car stopped. That's not "gas lighting", that's raising children.

I agree with you. We expect our children to behave regardless of the circumstances because that is what they will have to do when they grow up. Employers are not going to make sure each of our personal needs are met every day prior to expecting us to do our jobs (or if anyone knows of an employer who does this, please let me know. I am not opposed to changing careers).

We have, in our weaker parenting moments, been guilty of excusing our toddler's behavior to other people by saying, "She's really tired." Guess what? She has picked up on that. After she misbehaves, her eyes get big and innocent and she says, "I'm sleepy." People, including kids, learn when they can use "my needs are not being met" as an excuse for any type of behavior.

 

[ktlm]

As I read the article, I have to admit that my thoughts were that the author must have some wild out of control kids. I get a little of what the author is saying and the point the author was trying to make, but I think the article goes too far. Kids need to learn expectations as well as being able to adapt to different situations if they are going to do well later in life. A big part of being a preschooler/kid is learning self control and how to act appropriately. I was asked by certain parents when DD was a toddler and preschooler how we could stand taking her to decent restaurants with us- which we did a lot. The answer was that she had been to those restaurants since she was in a baby carrier and was well behaved at restaurants-- she was not perfect- at least not all the time, nor would we expect her to be. We took her places frequently and she learned how to behave in those places. (And, let me tell you as well- behaved as she could be in public at a young age, she was equally as strong-willed, spirited, wild, and a holy terror at home and sometimes other places) As far as the Nutcracker- I'm not sure what about it isn't really for kids? I know some preschoolers who found it magical- one being my niece who is now 13 and spends hours every week in ballet and dance classes. My DD, on the other hand could watch a 3 hour musical at age 3 totally enthralled and without moving-- yep, turns out she is a theatre kid. I have a friend whose preschooler and kindergarteners are obsessed with football and will sit to watch an entire game on tv or in the stadium- my DD would never in a million years have done that as a preschooler - while she would happily sit through a 3 hour musical on stage or on television- she would be a terror if you tried to make her watch football- or really other sports- live or on tv. We took her to a hockey game which my work did as a group event and she basically tried to run up and down the stairs all night- totally not her thing- and we did not take her to another one although she had a great time running around hopefully not disturbing others too much. I think what I get out of the article is that IF those kinds of things are not your preschoolers cup of tea and IF they don't respond well to Santa, traveling, extended family or other situations, don't push them or at least be understanding. To the extent the article may be saying don't put them in those situations, or to allow them to run rampant in those situations, I don't agree with it. I don't like the way the article was written, but I think the thing to take from it is to be flexible. You have to do what works for your children. You also have to understand that kids are going to be kids and they are not going to behave perfectly, that they need to be able to express themselves, and sometimes they just need to work off steam.

OP as far as advice for a Disney trip from it, that is my advice-- flexibility is key. I don't think you ever know how a preschooler is going to react to WDW until their first trip. My DD took to the place and everything about it instantly. She was much better behaved at WDW then she was at home. You have to be able to change plans to do what is best for them. For example, we thought afternoon breaks would be necessary based on these boards, but we found when we got there that did not work for her at all. She was a terror if you made her leave the park for a break and was an angry toddler who refused to nap for hours. If you stayed in the park and just let her stroller nap when she got tired, she was an angel. Also, be sure they have plenty to eat and drink. Running around the parks takes a lot of energy If DD started getting cranky, it was a pretty good bet that she needed a drink or a snack, or both. Once she got those, she would be a happy camper again. Be sure and give them time to smell the roses, just because something is not that interesting to you, doesn't mean that it isn't suddenly the most interesting thing in the world to them. It is funny to see what they suddenly become obsessed with. They also like repeating things. FP+ makes it a little harder in a lot of places, but if the line is short enough to repeat things and they are begging to do it again, then let them. We instituted a 5 time in a row limit on the boat ride inside Mexico at EPCOT.

 

[ZephyrHawk]

Here's the thing: As a kid, I was expected to have good table manners. I was expected to sit patiently at the table. I was expected to converse politely with adults. I was expected to do a lot of grown-up things, because my parents were training me to be a grown-up. Now should kids have their own times and places to just be a kid? Yes, of course. But they need to have adult training sessions, too. If I hadn't learned to act like a grownup, I would have missed out on a lot of adult activities my parents wanted to share with me. Fancy dinners and three hour ballets can, in fact, be fun.

 

[ban26ana]

First of all, gas lighting is absolutely the wrong term. I think we can all agree on that. (By the way, that's one of my favorite movies.)

I think that our job as parents is to raise children to be caring and functional human beings. Part of that is to teach them proper manners and behavior, even when they're not getting their way.

My world does not revolve around my children. I love them, yes. And I do a lot for them. But they don't define who I am as a person, and I don't expect the world to bow before them.

I expect a lot from my children. And they live up to those expectations. How do we make our Disney trips successful? By teaching them at home. Nothing changes when we go on vacation. Our kids know our expectations are the same as at home. They treat us with respect and don't sass us. Past the toddler stage, they don't throw tantrums. (All bets are off with my 1 year old. She's a little terrorist lol. But she's still learning.)

Yes, we make sure that they get food and sleep at appropriate times. But they also know that the world isn't a never ending buffet of goldfish and chicken nuggets. Sometimes they need to eat foods that aren't their first choice. (We have a picture of one of our kids at Olivia's at OKW "choking down" green beans.)

Bottom line is teach your kids how to act at home, and they'll act the same in public.

 

[larryz]

If the article is trying to infer that by requiring children to behave in public parents are "gaslighting" the kids I want to slap whoever wrote it. They are the types that are putting kids out in the world that throw fits no one wants to witness. Behaving in public is not up for negotiating or debate in my world. It is done, or else. Fits can be thrown at home but never, ever in view of others.

Consider that the author, "Steph," is a "...full time working mom to the two best kids on the planet. They live a happy secular life in a small city in the midwest. When she's not busy running a division of a large nonprofit, Steph enjoys snuggling, making pies, engaging in debates on the internet and fitness. Steph considers herself a semi-crunchy parent (of the breastfeeding, cloth diapering, cosleeping, peaceful parenting variety), but trusts science, evidence and common sense to lead the way. She has been actively involved with the reproductive and women's rights movements for nearly 20 years."

Clearly, her "small city in the midwest" hasn't yet installed electricity.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I'm confused, is the OP asking for advice?

Anyway. Gaslighting is not the right word to use for what she is talking about. Nope. It's too bad she chose to use that word but I suspect she wouldn't be getting the clicks she is getting without it.

As far as WDW, I see most parents just trying to have a good time with their kids. On the scale of things kids have to deal with these days, I think a WDW trip is pretty low on the list of things to worry about. Unless the parents are abusive in some way, but that doesn't have anything to do with WDW.

 

[Jing]

I don't know how mental health professionals use the term

Speaking as one, I use it as an illustration, typically in relation to how a person is minimized by an abuser/narcissist. I find the DWIL board on baby center has the best overall description. I think the author of the article explained the behavior marginally well, but other than click-bait, her examples are a huge stretch.

I will give her that women in our (US) culture likely have experienced an attempt at being gaslit, sexual harassment being one of the most obvious examples - Don't laugh at an offensive joke? You don't have a sense of humor. Don't want me rub your shoulders? You are uptight, I'm just trying to help you relax.

It's an intentionally manipulative strategy, often subtle, and there are parents who do it. Though a**hole is not technically a diagnosis in the DSM-5, the behaviors are diagnostic criteria.

After reading this article http://groundedparents.com/2014/11/26/can-we-please-stop-gaslighting-our-kids/ I figured that you all might have great advice to avoid this at the parks.

I only have one Disney toddler trip under my belt. We had a few tantrums, and I treated them the same as I do at home. We kept to sleep, nap, and mealtimes close to normal because he, like most kids, likes having a predictable routine, particularly to balance unpredictable experiences. Hydration, snacks, shade, and going with the flow of interest were also essential. My kid has way more words in his head than he can get out and, like me, sometimes needs a moment to pause when there is a lot going on that needs processing. I honor that at home and on the road. I expect it to be reciprocated. I also keep my promises, and that includes leaving where we are for unacceptable behavior at his developmental level. Hubs and I do our best to be as consistent as possible while having special vacation-only treats. Best of success!

 

[GPC0321]

Yes, the sad thing is, in today's world, parents are not being "allowed" to teach their children these things any more, because of the so-called "professionals" who tell us we are damaging their little psyche and stifling their emotional development.

And, of course, the ironic thing is that by not teaching their children these very important lessons, they are actually stifling their emotional development. They continue to react to situations the way babies react long after they should have grown out of such behavior.

I see it quite often with a friend of mine's children. To this day (ages 12, 9, and 7) she will not tell them of any plans (outings, vacations, anything they would look forward to) ahead of time (not even the DAY before) because she's worried something might happen that causes her to change the plans and then the kids will be disappointed. The 9 year old is reading and writing on a kindergarten level (home-schooled) and still has bathroom accidents in his pants, and the 7 year old throws full-out tantrums (saw him throw a shoe at his father the last time I was there), if he doesn't get to play his video games when he wants. And yet? My friend's entire world revolves around these kids. She's with them 24/7, and thinks she's doing them a favor by being completely in control of their world. She is blind to her children's issues, but is the first one to point out flaws in others' kids.

And the one I feel sorry for is the kids, because they'll be the ones to suffer in the end.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

I think the author is completely insane. She is going to have a rough time when those kids are teenagers. I am by no means a strict parent. We let DD (3) play and make messes and be noisy ( at home or on the playground). We read to her all day long and Daddy wears a tiara when instructed to do so. But we also make her wait when she tries to interrupt adults. We have taken her out and about since she was a newborn. She know how to behave in public. Early on that meant leaving when she misbehaved. It was inconvenient for us, but it showed her that when we said "behave or we'll go home", we meant it. During the toddler years, it meant following through with punishments. As a preschooler, she receives so many compliments on how well she follows directions and how polite she is (always says please and thank you), but it is because we have always said please and thank you and you're welcome. We set the example.
DD eats like an adult, because we have always fed her "adult" foods. I read a book about how French children have much more adventurous appetites, and as a result aren't fattening up on chicken nuggets and fries all day. It really resonated with me, and we have always made a point to offer her the same healthy foods we eat. As a result, we have trouble finding things for her to eat off the "kids menu". She loves salad and broccoli and fresh green beans. She requests fish and strawberries and pears, loves goat cheese and stir fry. She refuses to eat potato products, so no fries and chips here. Does she enjoy candy and cookies? Yes, but we balance that out with healthy foods. It is not gaslighting or torture, it is parenting, plain and simple.

We breast fed, co slept, plan to homeschool, and also believe in gentle parenting with loving discipline. But we discipline because we love her. I want her to know how to behave in society. To know how to sit through a boring work meeting without throwing a fit or falling asleep, to try new foods even if she's worried they'll taste funny, to control her temper and her urge to scream in a restaurant. To be a decent, fully functioning adult. As an RN, I see far too many adults who were never taught to cope with disappointment, boredom, anger, etc. And now they are addicts or unruly adults. Addiction is the only coping skill they can turn to, because early on those skill weren't instilled. I love my daughter enough to not let that happen. And we have been able to discipline her without physical punishment. She doesn't know what a spanking is.


As far as coping at Disney, we are lucky in that DD is fairly well behaved. We make sure she gets plenty of sleep, always have a healthy snack and drink at the ready, and don't pump her body full of junk food at the parks. We go at a leisurely pace. If she gets tired, she is good about napping in her stroller. Usually she won't throw big fits or anything, so it isn't much of an issue for us.


As an aside, My parents were incredibly abusive and used gaslighting-like techniques. They almost invent their own reality ( I think it is all the alcohol). My dad insists he bought me a super nice fridge as a housewarming gift (never happened- the house came with a low-end cheap fridge that we have used since 2007). They swear they paid for my college ( I have the student loans to prove otherwise). They even occasionally try to deny that we were ever homeless (the tent we lived in for three months, along with the freaking news story that was done on us, tells a different story). They speak like they were parents of the century, when in reality they were incredibly abusive and neglectful. When they would hit us or tell us we were worthless, they would turn it around on us and make it seem like we were the ones who caused all their problems. When I went to a counselor for depression as a teenager, they would sit me down after my sessions and say things like "We know you told him we were abusive and made up huge lies about us. He told us everything, and we denied it and he believes us. He knows you're a liar and he thinks you are crazy." That is what true psychological abuse looks like, and it usually comes with physical abuse too. Insisting that your kids control themselves in public and eat adult foods is called parenting. The author should look into it.

 

[kamik86]

From what you said, that's because you grew up in a decent family.

This is awesome. This is NOT the sort of family that everyone grows up in. My mom and dad, separately, made the "good eater", well-behaved, did-as-they-said daughter sit at the table until her brother (then later, with dad, brotherS) finished all of the food he despised. And I had to just sit there. And wait. And wait. That's not nice at all.

That was the only case where my mom did that; still not sure why she made that choice, but it didn't mean she made other choices. My dad, however yikes. And it's b/c he was brought up far too strictly. Instead of being taught how to be good on long car trips, HIS mom just drugged all 8 of her kids for long drives. So they slept and never learned coping skills. (now their coping skill for boredom seems to be drawn out devil's advocate type arguments which is NOT fun)

Anyway, you didn't experience it, so of course it's not a big deal for you!

Ok so the article should be about setting realistic expectations of kids and asking them to meet them. What I read of the article sounded much more like having no expectations to sit through dinner or anything else.

My family had its flaws but my parents didn't generally expect anything from the kids they don't expect from the adults.

1. Adults in my family don't sit quietly at the table except maybe for the first 5 min we all sit down with food... and that is only because our mouths are full! After that we talk.
2. Adults in my family don't want to sit at the table until everyone else is done eating... because some people in the family eat painfully slow. Those adults don't want the faster eaters to have to sit until they are done either, because then they feel like they need to hurry up or eat less because the rest of us are waiting.
3. When we went on long car rides we played games. Like seeing how many state licence plates we could find, I spy, or an alphabet game. I also would bring a book. My older sister would sleep (I didn't sleep well in the car as a kid - and she would get car sick if she tried to read... so again reasonable expectations they didn't make me sleep or her read that would be stupid and counter productive)

The only rule I remember on what I could do when I got up from eating is for a while when multiple kids were around there was a rule that the first to finish could go play but NOT in the dining room. This was because once the first got up and started playing on the computer or playing in teh dining room eating was all over for everyone else. So we had to go out of sight.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

it's one thing to not be required to sit at the table at home until everyone is finished. But I know I've seen parents in restaurants that let the kids get up and run around. Which is not the wisest thing to do in a restaurant.

I have a nephew who never stays at the table (at home). He likes to eat some, go do something else, and then come back and get more of his favorites. He just figured out that while he's gone doing whatever else, somebody still at the table might eat up all of his favorites.

Maybe, after reading this author's bio, I get her objection to taking kids to meet Santa Claus. I am thinking she probably doesn't "do" the Santa thing at all.