Russian Jet Downed by Turkey?!

[Domo]

Russian President Vladimir Putin has bitterly condemned the downing of a Russian jet on the Turkey-Syria border.

He described it as a "stab in the back" committed by "accomplices of terrorists".

Turkey says its jets shot at the plane after warning that it was violating Turkish airspace. But Moscow says it never strayed from Syrian airspace.

Nato is holding an extraordinary meeting to discuss the incident at Turkey's request.

Its Secretary-General, Jens Stoltenberg, has said allied assessment of the incident shows that the Russia warplane did fly into Turkish airspace.

Russia's defence ministry said one of the pilots was killed in a failed rescue attempt.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34913173

 

[NHdisneylover]

This is been a major headline for hours. Do you have something you want to say about it?


Personally, Putin has been making me nervous for a long time now, and I do worry about how the world will deal with him/Russia, especially while also dealing with ISIS. (or ISIL or whatever we are calling it now).
I am not all that surprised by this though. Russians have been violating airspace in Sweden, Estonia, Turkey and Finland more and more and had to know that at some point it would no longer be tolerated----and along the Turkish-Syrian border where so much very volatile stuff is going on seems like the place where patience with Putin flexing his muscles and pushing the line would finally cause a retaliation.
I am saddened by it and worried about how that affects world politics which are already so unstable, but not surprised.

 

[Domo]

It was the first I'd heard of it and it wasn't on the DIS so I thought it was worth reporting... after all, a country downing another countries plane isn't small fry.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I can agree it is worth discussing--just wondering what you want to say about it?

 

[cabanafrau]

This has my attention largely on the basis of the fact it involves two very complex and interesting countries.

 

[Domo]

I guess I'm a little nervous. Putin is not someone to cross sabres with and I don't see Turkey backing down either. I wonder... who was in the right here?

 

[cabanafrau]

I guess I'm a little nervous. Putin is not someone to cross sabres with and I don't see Turkey backing down either. I wonder... who was in the right here?

Considering the players I wonder if we'll ever have the answer.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Yeah, it is one heck of an unsettling situation no matter how you look at it, with those two countries involved. I hope they both come to their senses and quite the hyperbole and calm down before this turns into something really bad.

 

[DebbieB]

It was the first I'd heard of it and it wasn't on the DIS so I thought it was worth reporting... after all, a country downing another countries plane isn't small fry.

It was a war plane that flew into Turkey's airspace, not a passenger plane. 2 pilots.

 

[bcla]

American sources are saying that if the Russians did an incursion into Turkish airspace, it was probably a matter of seconds.

Granted, it's complicated given that Russia is still an ally of the Syrian regime. The Russians claim they're fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda, although it sounds as if they're aiding the Syrian regime against various rebels.

 

[bcla]

It was a war plane that flew into Turkey's airspace, not a passenger plane. 2 pilots.

The plane was likely hugging the border between Turkey and Syria.

 

[SparklePixie]

The plane was likely hugging the border between Turkey and Syria.

Nato says the plane was in Turkish airspace.

 

[Mizzoufan]

Turkey warned them over and over. At some point enough is enough. You give Putin an imch he'll take the whole country

 

[lovemygoofy]

The Russian plane was a war jet not a passenger plane and was warned told to turn around. Last year Turkey shot down a Syrian fighter jet for the same reasons.

 

[Domo]

It was a war plane that flew into Turkey's airspace, not a passenger plane. 2 pilots.

Still shocking. Makes no difference to me whether it's one passenger or several hundred, a death is a death.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Still shocking. Makes no difference to me whether it's one passenger or several hundred, a death is a death.

Any death is bad---but I think most can see that it is much more understandable why a military aircraft in the wrong place might be shot down, than a civilian one.

To me this is not nearly the tragedy that, say, Malaysia Air flight 17, a commercial plane full of civilians flying in its normal air space being shot down by Russian separatists was. Though, this may have bigger and more tragic global implications.

 

[Domo]

Any death is bad---but I think most can see that it is much more understandable why a military aircraft in the wrong place might be shot down, than a civilian one.

To me this is not nearly the tragedy that, say, Malaysia Air flight 17, a commercial plane full of civilians flying in its normal air space being shot down by Russian separatists was. Though, this may have bigger and more tragic global implications.

Troo dat.

 

[bcla]

Nato says the plane was in Turkish airspace.

This is from a freelance reporter in Istanbul:

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-turkey-shoots-warplane-20151124-story.html

A U.S. official, however, said the intrusion into Turkish airspace likely lasted seconds, not minutes.

“We are still assessing the but initial indications are that the penetration through Turkish airspace was likely to be a matter of seconds,” said the official, who was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.​

The Russians claim that their planes went around the border. The Turks claim that the path the Russian planes took was about 2 miles through their airspace. Here's the photo they distributed:

Here's a NY Times article with the various claims:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...leeast/russia-turkey-jet-shoot-down-maps.html

If the plane was going about 1000 mph, that's 7.2 seconds. Granted - an incursion isn't acceptable, but even the Turkish authorities aren't claiming that the plane was loitering in their airspace for minutes. It was clearly shot down in Syrian airspace. Of course Turkey is entering Syria on a pretty regular basis now for various reasons.

 

[Kitty 34]

Still shocking. Makes no difference to me whether it's one passenger or several hundred, a death is a death.

One military death is sad but a jet with many civilians would be horrible! IMHO

 

[bcla]

One military death is sad but a jet with many civilians would be horrible! IMHO

Lets not kid ourselves. This was a military operation. The Russian jets were sent in to bomb people and Turkey claims that the Russians have been taking out civilians. Also - the Russian operations are in support of Assad's Syrian government.

It's a really complicated situation with multiple forces with different goals.