Is this a reason for Disney to worry?

[lockedoutlogic]

To be clear, I found numbers that suggest pre tax profit of $922 million and Revenues of $4 Billion+ for Walt Disney Parks and Resorts in the most recent quarter. That compares to $354 million on $700+ million in Revenue for Universal Theme Parks.

Yeah...still a wide gap.

For the purposes of what had transpired over the last few years though...obviously universal has shown more "improvement"...the mountain is still pretty tall to
Climb...

And...in the case of Florida...the first guy in controlled all the real estate advantages. No way to offset that.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

But you can't parse out the resorts from the parks because that's not how Disney reports its results. I think you're getting too caught up in what's parks vs. what's resorts. Disney reports them as one segment for financial statement purposes. You may not like what they do, but that's how its reported.

Got ya.

I was trying to give US a bit more credit, or Disney a bit less credit because of all the Resort/DVC/Cruise stuff. But I guess in the end is all part of Disney Theme Park profits.

SO:

WDW $922 Million

US $354 Million.

 

[olecow]

I know my family is a small sample size, but up to this point we've only done Disney. We've never even ventured outside of their parks during our visits to Orlando. For our upcoming October trip I offered to the family that maybe we should try Universal. Both of our boys are teenagers (17 and 14) who like thrill rides. When I offered them a choice between Disney and Universal they both said "Disney" right away. There was no hesitation. I then offered that we could do Universal for a day or two and they weren't interested (honestly, neither was I).

I realize other families are opting for Universal or do both parks during their visit, but my family and a lot of others will continue to be Disney nerds. I wouldn't say Disney needs to worry, but they do need to be aware that they need to make changes and updates, and I think they are. When Star Wars land opens I may have to take a serious look at some Florida real estate.

 

[7series]

The only reason why Disney would care about Universal's growth is if their stock price is affected by their own park's lack of growth. The analysts look at Universal and say, "If they're putting up these growth numbers, why aren't you?" It isn't about absolute attendance, it's about growth. think that it's important to put everything in context. The fact is that Parks & Resorts are far, far more important to Disney than to Comcast/Universal from a financial point of view.

In the last quarter, Disney had $4.1 billion in operating income, and Parks & Resorts accounted for just over 22% ($922 million) of that income. Parks & Resorts is the second biggest Disney segment. Media Networks dwarfs Parks & Resorts, accounting for almost 60% (almost $2.4 billion) of Disney's income. For Disney, Media Networks primarily means ESPN. ESPN is in trouble right now, so the market is looking more to the Parks & Resorts segment to support the stock price. The fact is thanks to ESPN's issues, Parks & Resorts suddenly became far, far more important to Disney than it's been in at least 10 years, and probably closer to 15, because ESPN is beginning to tarnish.

Then we look at Comcast/NBC Universal. Last quarter their Operating Income was $8.313 billion. Over DOUBLE what Disney puts up. And why? Because in addition to the other things that Disney does, Comcast is also a cable provider. They are primarily a cable provider. Their cable operations account for almost 60% (nearly $5 billion) of their income. Unlike Disney, their second biggest segment isn't their Theme Parks segment, but rather their Cable Networks & Broadcast Television segments, which account for another 26% of their income. Theme Parks aren't even third...Filmed Entertainment is. Finally, their smallest segment is Theme Parks, accounting for merely 7% of their income. This is roughly equivalent (percentage wise) to what Consumer Products is to Disney from a financial point of view. But even though it's the smallest piece of the pie, Theme Parks are still providing over $600 million in income each quarter.

Theme Parks is a tiny segment in the Comcast world, yet Comcast's growth results in that segment are amazing. Disney is supposed to be the theme park expert, and this segment accounts for a huge chunk of their bottom line, and yet the income growth isn't there. I don't think that Disney is worried about Universal being a competitor in Orlando necessarily (yet) but I do think that right now Universal's results are embarrassing to Disney because from a financial point of view, Universal seems to be doing parks better than the theme park king of the world.

But for consumers this should be great news. If Universal is doing something that makes Disney look bad, and if investors are starting to pay attention, then Disney will, too.

I don't know that it is just that Universal has been doing a better job, it's also that they had so much room to grow and improve. When you are already the biggest by far, you aren't playing catch up. It hasn't been that long (comparatively speaking) since Universal was crap. We went there when we got married in 2001 and didn't like it at all. Among the problems was that it was laid out by a moron. I don't know about now, but back then, every guide you read said plan on getting lost early and often. It was very true. We changed our plans, cut a day off Universal and added an extra day to WDW.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

When Star Wars land opens I may have to take a serious look at some Florida real estate.

Already there, and adding more DVC points because of whats going on there.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Already there, and adding more DVC points because of whats going on there.

Do you want to buy some magic beans too?

Buying a real estate interest "because of Star Wars" is a REALLY flimsy excuse at this point...

I honestly don't trust them to build anything right now with sustained interest.
Star tours has always been a "miss" - if we're talking a "mixed use" restaurant with chicken, a huge gift shop to sell terrible quality "parks" product, and two "high tech" simulators...then that is a miss.

Pessimistic? Yeah...a bit. But out of the question? No.

The thing that worries me most is the "they weren't going to announce...but the stock made them move it up early" that's been widely speculated...

There hearts not in it...because it never really seems to be in it in Florida...that's money - plain and simple.

If you buy DVC points directly from Disney...I think you need you're head examined. It's not a good deal, frankly, at this time.

 

[Scalemaster34]

Wasn't Avatar a knee jerk reaction to Universal Harry Potter, and the success they had with Phase I? (shaping up to be one of the worst things they have done)

 

[rteetz]

Wasn't Avatar a knee jerk reaction to Universal Harry Potter, and the success they had with Phase I? (shaping up to be one of the worst things they have done)

Yes and no. Originally avatar was supposed to be much smaller be more of an exhibit type attraction in DHS.

Are you saying avatar is shaping up to be one of the worst things they have done? If so I strongly disagree this land will be one of the best themed lands Disney has ever done in terms of theming, details and the engineering.

 

[eXo]

While I have no inside info, I can't imagine Avatar can be boiled down simply to a kneejerk reaction. Disney doesn't seem to do anything in a kneejerk fashion other than quickly throwing together summer shows and such to capitalize on current movies without a permanent presence.

My guess is someone at Disney thought Avatar had a ton of potential as a world and they were likely looking for something in Animal Kingdom ever since the Fantasy portion was scrapped. Avatar was a super high grossing movie that had an ecology ring to it and therefor fit into AK.

I'm not saying it was the best choice for them, but it definitely makes sense to me and again, I just can't see them dropping that kind of money on something just because Hogwarts. If you look at when Avatar was announced, Hogwarts was getitng a lot of attention, but nobody knew what sort of beats it was still going to become at Universal.

 

[rteetz]

While I have no inside info, I can't imagine Avatar can be boiled down simply to a kneejerk reaction. Disney doesn't seem to do anything in a kneejerk fashion other than quickly throwing together summer shows and such to capitalize on current movies without a permanent presence.

My guess is someone at Disney thought Avatar had a ton of potential as a world and they were likely looking for something in Animal Kingdom ever since the Fantasy portion was scrapped. Avatar was a super high grossing movie that had an ecology ring to it and therefor fit into AK.

I'm not saying it was the best choice for them, but it definitely makes sense to me and again, I just can't see them dropping that kind of money on something just because Hogwarts. If you look at when Avatar was announced, Hogwarts was getitng a lot of attention, but nobody knew what sort of beats it was still going to become at Universal.

It wasn't actually someone at Disney it was Jon Landau that said why don't we do a land in animal kingdom instead.

 

[eXo]

Shhh. I was trying to give them credit...

 

[DDLand]

While I have no inside info, I can't imagine Avatar can be boiled down simply to a kneejerk reaction. Disney doesn't seem to do anything in a kneejerk fashion other than quickly throwing together summer shows and such to capitalize on current movies without a permanent presence.

My guess is someone at Disney thought Avatar had a ton of potential as a world and they were likely looking for something in Animal Kingdom ever since the Fantasy portion was scrapped. Avatar was a super high grossing movie that had an ecology ring to it and therefor fit into AK.

I'm not saying it was the best choice for them, but it definitely makes sense to me and again, I just can't see them dropping that kind of money on something just because Hogwarts. If you look at when Avatar was announced, Hogwarts was getitng a lot of attention, but nobody knew what sort of beats it was still going to become at Universal.

I see where it may have started out as such, but now so many years later, I just don't get that vibe. It doesn't make sense as they could have cancelled it all the way up to early 2014 and wrote it off. They had to essentially force Cameron to the table according to different sources. Avatar is part of Animal Kingdom's DCA/HKDL expansion refocusing. The whole thing is supposed to turn around this park. Whether it can do it is another thing entirely.

It wasn't actually someone at Disney it was Jon Landau that said why don't we do a land in animal kingdom instead.

Consider [Tom Staggs'] creative input for a coming $500 million “Avatar”-inspired addition to Disney’s Animal Kingdom in Florida. In 2011, Mr. Iger and Mr. Staggs had breakfast with James Cameron, the director of “Avatar,” and Jon Landau, who produced the movie. They were discussing a deal to make “Avatar,” which took in $2.8 billion worldwide, part of Disney’s Hollywood Studios theme park.

Out of the blue, according to Mr. Landau, Mr. Staggs floated a more ambitious idea: What about instead adding an entire “Avatar” land to Animal Kingdom, a park with an ecological theme that could use a kick in the pants?

“It was Tom who had the vision to say, ‘Hey, maybe this isn’t just part of a studio tour — let’s think bigger,’ ” Mr. Landau said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/business/media/thomas-staggs-disneys-heir-apparently.html?_r=0

It was Disney, Staggs in particular. I don't think this was a reaction so much as it was a sequel to DCA or HKDL.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Do you want to buy some magic beans too?

Buying a real estate interest "because of Star Wars" is a REALLY flimsy excuse at this point...

I honestly don't trust them to build anything right now with sustained interest.
Star tours has always been a "miss" - if we're talking a "mixed use" restaurant with chicken, a huge gift shop to sell terrible quality "parks" product, and two "high tech" simulators...then that is a miss.

Pessimistic? Yeah...a bit. But out of the question? No.

The thing that worries me most is the "they weren't going to announce...but the stock made them move it up early" that's been widely speculated...

There hearts not in it...because it never really seems to be in it in Florida...that's money - plain and simple.

If you buy DVC points directly from Disney...I think you need you're head examined. It's not a good deal, frankly, at this time.

Bought/buying more used points, now with the future expansions underway will invest even a bit more.

 

[rteetz]

I see where it may have started out as such, but now so many years later, I just don't get that vibe. It doesn't make sense as they could have cancelled it all the way up to early 2014 and wrote it off. They had to essentially force Cameron to the table according to different sources. Avatar is part of Animal Kingdom's DCA/HKDL expansion refocusing. The whole thing is supposed to turn around this park. Whether it can do it is another thing entirely.
Consider [Tom Staggs'] creative input for a coming $500 million “Avatar”-inspired addition to Disney’s Animal Kingdom in Florida. In 2011, Mr. Iger and Mr. Staggs had breakfast with James Cameron, the director of “Avatar,” and Jon Landau, who produced the movie. They were discussing a deal to make “Avatar,” which took in $2.8 billion worldwide, part of Disney’s Hollywood Studios theme park.

Out of the blue, according to Mr. Landau, Mr. Staggs floated a more ambitious idea: What about instead adding an entire “Avatar” land to Animal Kingdom, a park with an ecological theme that could use a kick in the pants?

“It was Tom who had the vision to say, ‘Hey, maybe this isn’t just part of a studio tour — let’s think bigger,’ ” Mr. Landau said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/business/media/thomas-staggs-disneys-heir-apparently.html?_r=0

It was Disney, Staggs in particular. I don't think this was a reaction so much as it was a sequel to DCA or HKDL.

Yes I forgot you showed me this before. I had always heard Landau until you showed me this. It does seem however that Landau was more involved than Cameron. I'm sure Cameron has been involved in most things but Landau just seems like he's been there for everything.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Yes I forgot you showed me this before. I had always heard Landau until you showed me this. It does seem however that Landau was more involved than Cameron. I'm sure Cameron has been involved in most things but Landau just seems like he's been there for everything.

There are other rumors that Cameron is a huge part of the delays and length of build. Supposedly he wants to sign off on everything and isn't very responsive.

 

[Eoghann]

Wasn't Avatar a knee jerk reaction to Universal Harry Potter, and the success they had with Phase I? (shaping up to be one of the worst things they have done)

Knee jerk reactions don't take the better part of a decade. They are by definition quick and poorly thought out.

What we have seen so far suggests a land that is extremely well thought out and exceptionally themed. It will address specific weaknesses at Animal Kingdom and likely substantially improve the profitability of the park.

It's possible originally signing the deal was a knee jerk reaction, the rest, hardly.

 

[rteetz]

There are other rumors that Cameron is a huge part of the delays and length of build. Supposedly he wants to sign off on everything and isn't very responsive.

This is the one I don't buy. Disney broke ground in 2014. Opening in 2017 is not in reasonable. The deal was announced in 2011 when pretty much nothing had been started in the project so 2.5 years of design work. Now if they announced in 2013 that probably would've been different. Star Wars was purchased in 2012. Star Wars announced in 2015. Completion in 2019-2020, just to put in perspective.

 

[rteetz]

Knee jerk reactions don't take the better part of a decade. They are by definition quick and poorly thought out.

What we have seen so far suggests a land that is extremely well thought out and exceptionally themed. It will address specific weaknesses at Animal Kingdom and likely substantially improve the profitability of the park.

It's possible originally signing the deal was a knee jerk reaction, the rest, hardly.

DHS is a knee jerk reaction to universal studios Orlando.

 

[Eoghann]

DHS is a knee jerk reaction to universal studios Orlando.

Yes it was. And look, they're practically having to gut the place and start again...

 

[3DisneyFanz]

This is the one I don't buy. Disney broke ground in 2014. Opening in 2017 is not in reasonable. The deal was announced in 2011 when pretty much nothing had been started in the project so 2.5 years of design work. Now if they announced in 2013 that probably would've been different. Star Wars was purchased in 2012. Star Wars announced in 2015. Completion in 2019-2020, just to put in perspective.

Then maybe that story just helps people feel better about the snails pace building that goes on now. I believe all of Disney Land was built in the same amount of time it takes to build a parking garage now.