Came across this article from an average guest

[minniemous]

Husband and I are laughing because this was us a few nights ago at 12:01 and we were not happy. We have been getting up at 5:00am every day and the last thing we wanted to do was set the alarm to get up to choose fast passes.

I totally agree with the crazy nature of this entire thing. I do not know if part of the intention of this is to keep people to a schedule but it has certainly succeeded in doing that with us. Our trips used to be totally unplanned and we decided which park to go to in the morning and we also had no special inside fast pass kiosk plan. I know we did not ride as much as others that had some tricks to optimizing. We also never even went on Toy Story.

This past year we kept to our park selection the entire trip owed entirely to our fast pass selections. If we did not go to the park we had planned then we would not have gone on Toy Story or 7 dwarves Mine train.

In many ways though this has made it more fair for the non-disney information armed patrons. It was not like disney was going to tell you the inside track on how to get fast passes by running to kiosks in the morning and doing whatever plan people had to optimize fast passes.

At least this way everyone is told about when they can select and everyone has an equal opportunity. The year before this was implemented we had never been on the Toy Story ride because fast passes were always gone (no idea there was an inside plan people had to riding and multiple times). Do not forget this is the same for most people who do not live in a Disneycentric universe.

Our vacation is definitely better in many ways because of the fast pass selection. I wonder how this person would have felt if they were like us ( a few years ago) and instead under the old system did not run and get passes and just did not get to ride the popular rides at all? To me running around and working the system in this way would have been much more crazy then staying up one night.

 

[HappyDaisy]

Except these days one is FORCED to plan IF they want to do ANYTHING other than walk around or shop at WDW. So far, you don't need reservations for that. I live an hour away and have AP's. I'm fortunate in that I can go anytime I like, but I don't. Our AP's were a huge waste of money this year. I can't just say to DH, "Hey, let's go to Disney today." Of course we could go, but we wouldn't be able to eat at favorite sit down restaurants, ride favorite rides, see favorite shows, etc. Why? Because I didn't plan 60 days out and everything we like has already been reserved by those who stayed up until midnight when their window of opportunity opened. Now, we even have to pre-book things like Candlelight Processional and Eat to the Beat Concerts. It's simply not worth the hassle. The solution for us is to simply not renew our passes this year--or ever.

 

[Angel Ariel]

That's why I'm always amazed that it's the frequent visitors who are the biggest and most constant complainers about the amount of planning a trip to WDW takes.

We don't plan as much for any other vacation as we do for WDW. Places we are as familiar with as we are WDW are quite literally just booking transportation there and accommodations. This summer one of our destinations was brand new, and still all we did prior was flights and hotel. We saw what we wanted to see without issue.

Different strokes and all that. I understand you see it differently, and I get why. I don't get why that understanding doesn't go both ways.

 

[larryz]

As does "throwing a fit".

Not ignoring that behavior -- the "thrown fit" IS the situation to which I was referring.

 

[wisblue]

We don't plan as much for any other vacation as we do for WDW. Places we are as familiar with as we are WDW are quite literally just booking transportation there and accommodations. This summer one of our destinations was brand new, and still all we did prior was flights and hotel. We saw what we wanted to see without issue.

Different strokes and all that. I understand you see it differently, and I get why. I don't get why that understanding doesn't go both ways.

I understand that there are some people who don't like planning.

But, if you have followed the posting histories of many of the most frequent complainers about FP+, their complaint is not really about the planning or concerns about the "average guest". Their real complaint is that FP+ has taken away much of the advantage that they enjoyed over the average guest because they could use their knowledge to get FPs for multiple rides on some of the most popular attractions.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

I just hate having to know what park I want to go to in advance. I loved just waking up at Disney and saying, "where do you want to go today?" I'm not so much against the fps because there are only s few I really would want anyway but I absolutely hate free dining. Having gone to Disney a few times and not being able to secure a sit down dinner is frustrating. I just like to walk in wherever. Next time we are doing only 1 preplanned day.

 

[Fraeli]

While I agree they could cut down the windows on ADRs and FPs, is there much these days that doesn't require more planning? At least anything popular? Like most things in life, you can still have a great time without planning, but planning will make your trip easier. I don't think that's unique to Disney. There are just too many people competing for a similar experience. Blame the growing population, not Disney.

Yes, there is. At least for us! Universal. As a PP, on our last trip to Orlando we stayed at one of their hotels for 2 nights after 6 WDW days. Two completely different experiences. At universal we just relaxed and had a good time. Went on every ride we wanted, as many times as we wanted, without having to wait in lines (except for the HP rides not covered by the Express Pass, for which we did have 20min or longer lines) or pre-scheduling anything. We chose where we would eat after we arrived at the parks, and we managed to eat in every restaurant we wanted.
We are probably still going to Disney on our next trip to Orlando, mainly because of DS and DD (now 3 and 6), but we are definitely putting more Universal days. We loved the feeling of not having to worry about anything, either before or during our stay there (no ADRs, no FP+). We just relaxed and had fun.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I think the amount of stress people experience is completely self-induced. Don't blame Disney. Just my .02

 

[Angel Ariel]

But, if you have followed the posting histories of many of the most frequent complainers about FP+, their complaint is not really about the planning or concerns about the "average guest". Their real complaint is that FP+ has taken away much of the advantage that they enjoyed over the average guest because they could use their knowledge to get FPs for multiple rides on some of the most popular attractions.

This is not at all what I got out of your post, especially the bolded, so thank you for clarifying. I wouldn't have responded at all if I had known that was really your point.

It sounds to me like the author of this article looked at the Dis and bought into the some of the hyperbole thrown around here hook, line, and sinker.

The biggest clue is when he says that if you don't book your FPs at 12:01 you might as well not bother because they're all gone. And his comment about "mission control" reminds me of the hysterical Disers who compare a Disney trip to a military operation. I don't know of any space flights or military operations that give you a full day to do 3 things, and an hour window to accomplish each of them, and then give you freedom to do whatever you want the rest of the day. And let you change your mind if you decide to do something else instead of the things planned in advance.

I got the biggest laugh out of the comment that his 5 year old daughter would be keeping an eye on the clock lest she miss her opportunity to meet Anna and Elsa. I highly doubt that a 5 year old is going to let a few FP reservations spoil her ability to enjoy a day at the MK. If the day is spoiled, that is the fault of upright parents, not Disney.

And, I totally agree with a PP's comments about the author's fond memories of when characters roamed free. When our daughters were 5 and younger, those character encounters were some of the only stressful moments of our trips. I have video evidence of our girls being shoved out of the way by bigger kids and their parents while they tried to get a picture or autograph.

Like a lot of other posters, I enjoy planning trips, especially to places that I have never visited before. When we took a trip to Colorado recently, if I hadn't done some reading and planning in advance, I wouldn't have known that (1) if you want to tour the Denver mint, you have to have a reservation, and those reservations disappear within minutes after they become available at midnight Eastern time (not Mountain Time) 30 days out, (2) if you want to take the Cog train to the summit of Pike's Peak, you have to make a reservation at least a week or two in advance or you are left with showing up and hoping for cancellations, and (3) if you don't arrive at Rocky Mountain Narional Park by 9 AM on a busy summer day, you will not get a parking spot in the park and ride in the park, and will have to park outside the park and take a shuttle to the park and ride to catch another bus to the popular hiking trails. By planning ahead, I was able to enjoy my trip a lot more than if we had just shown up, and the rest of the family just got to go along for the ride, oblivious to the fact that I had set all of these things up for them (except for the fact that I have a tendency to remind them of the work I did).

By comparison, because we are regular visitors to WDW, planning a trip there is a piece of cake. We know the lay of the land and what we like to do, and picking out which parks to visit which days and what FPs to select takes literally minutes. Then I can sit back and wait for the trip. That's why I'm always amazed that it's the frequent visitors who are the biggest and most constant complainers about the amount of planning a trip to WDW takes.

I really feel there's a big disconnect on the DIS in general. Sometimes it feels like only the extremes are considered - in this case, for example, you either love planning, or don't plan at all. neither is true for myself/my family. I enjoy planning - to an extent. WDW has taken it beyond the amount of planning I enjoy. I do it, as we don't like the consequences of not doing so, but that doesn't mean we love it. But not loving it doesn't mean we dislike all planning either. I wish there were more middle ground..

 

[wisblue]

I really feel there's a big disconnect on the DIS in general. Sometimes it feels like only the extremes are considered - in this case, for example, you either love planning, or don't plan at all. neither is true for myself/my family. I enjoy planning - to an extent. WDW has taken it beyond the amount of planning I enjoy. I do it, as we don't like the consequences of not doing so, but that doesn't mean we love it. But not loving it doesn't mean we dislike all planning either. I wish there were more middle ground..

To me, the middle ground is picking a few FPs for some of our favorite attractions every day and then forgetting about them until the trip. And treating those FPs as opportunities to do some of our favorite attractions, not commands or sentences to appear at them at a specific time. If our plans change when the time comes, we will do something different. And I trust that our knowledge of the parks and the rides and how the crowds develop will enable us to do everything we want even if we do deviate from the original rough plan.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Where does it say a average guest?.......a Article in Fortune is not likely to be with a average guest, especially when they don't say so.

AKK

 

[MrInfinity]

Back when I started going they didn't have lines. Everyone circled around the characters. You had to push your child forward, and then the character would pose for a quick pic and sign an autograph. They would then just leave that spot when it was time for them to move on. So even if you found a character, you had no idea if you would be lucky enough to get a pic or not.

Totally! It was only around 10 years ago that we were going to Disneyland and Woody would come out on one of the paths in the back of Frontierland. People would mill around there asking CMs when he would come out, until there was a mob and we walked by and asked what ppl were waiting for. Woody. Then he came out, and everyone shoved up... jockeying... all wanting to stay 5 ft back, but still cramming forward, cramming forward... trying to be just ahead of the parents to their left and right. We didn't know if we should be pushing or what. He'd stay out for 10 min, see 20 kids, and then they'd duck out. The "Mob Method" not a good system. I haven't been to DL in 10 years, just WDW so I don't know if they still do this. The M&Gs we've done in WDW have been nice. It's organized waiting or plan ahead. I will say that the line to meet Aladdin in Morocco is kind of old school still. People do mill around there until they hear he's coming out. Then 200 ppl cram into a line, they usher you into a small line building, and then close the door, so as to (I think) not make Morocco look crowded. But then they handle it in a line! No mob. You know if you get in the door you will get your turn, albeit with up to an hour wait. I do like the novelty of discovering something quaint like this... but in the days of the internet, quaint discoveries turn into must-have's, and then get cancelled.

 

[ChimCher-ee]

Like a lot of other posters, I enjoy planning trips, especially to places that I have never visited before. When we took a trip to Colorado recently, if I hadn't done some reading and planning in advance, I wouldn't have known that (1) if you want to tour the Denver mint, you have to have a reservation, and those reservations disappear within minutes after they become available at midnight Eastern time (not Mountain Time) 30 days out, (2) if you want to take the Cog train to the summit of Pike's Peak, you have to make a reservation at least a week or two in advance or you are left with showing up and hoping for cancellations, and (3) if you don't arrive at Rocky Mountain Narional Park by 9 AM on a busy summer day, you will not get a parking spot in the park and ride in the park, and will have to park outside the park and take a shuttle to the park and ride to catch another bus to the popular hiking trails. By planning ahead, I was able to enjoy my trip a lot more than if we had just shown up, and the rest of the family just got to go along for the ride, oblivious to the fact that I had set all of these things up for them (except for the fact that I have a tendency to remind them of the work I did).

Exactly! Lots of places in the world operate in a similar manner. Hearst Castle has a 60-day advance-purchase window, for a reason. The one place I left to chance on the last trip did not work like a charm. For some reason, I thought we could just "go to the Space Needle." Ha. We got there before 10 am and were lucky they had any times available that day. We discovered that the only ways to kill time waiting involved spending more $$.

 

[Planogirl]

I think that as always it comes down to personal preference. People have their own way of touring and to some the preplanning takes away from the enjoyment and to some it doesn't. Personally I don't like it. We always made few ADR's and used to enjoy just showing up wherever on most days. Now we have to know which park and which rides and which restaurants well ahead of time. My life is heavily scheduled and I miss the days of just showing up wherever.

I know, I know... We can still do that and just wait in line. That isn't very practical though is it?

 

[larryz]

Totally! It was only around 10 years ago that we were going to Disneyland and Woody would come out on one of the paths in the back of Frontierland. People would mill around there asking CMs when he would come out, until there was a mob and we walked by and asked what ppl were waiting for. Woody. Then he came out, and everyone shoved up... jockeying... all wanting to stay 5 ft back, but still cramming forward, cramming forward... trying to be just ahead of the parents to their left and right. We didn't know if we should be pushing or what. He'd stay out for 10 min, see 20 kids, and then they'd duck out. The "Mob Method" not a good system. I haven't been to DL in 10 years, just WDW so I don't know if they still do this. The M&Gs we've done in WDW have been nice. It's organized waiting or plan ahead. I will say that the line to meet Aladdin in Morocco is kind of old school still. People do mill around there until they hear he's coming out. Then 200 ppl cram into a line, they usher you into a small line building, and then close the door, so as to (I think) not make Morocco look crowded. But then they handle it in a line! No mob. You know if you get in the door you will get your turn, albeit with up to an hour wait. I do like the novelty of discovering something quaint like this... but in the days of the internet, quaint discoveries turn into must-have's, and then get cancelled.

I believe it's a shame people can't just enjoy the ambiance of having characters walking around the park, unmolested by crowds of greedy picture-grubbers insisting on a private photo of themselves or "their precious snowflake" with the character in question.

Personally, I treat characters as I would a celebrity wandering about without a plaid. I might acknowledge them with a nod or a wave, and wouldn't dream of interacting with them unless they initiated the conversation.

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone did the same?

 

[North of Mouse]

I totally agree with the article. We have been going to Disney since MK opened and have enjoyed many happy carefree vacations there. We still enjoy Disney, but are going much less frequent. We have a trip for Feb. to end our AP year, then it's mostly to other less 'scheduled' relaxing destinations.

I, too, miss the characters roaming, getting a dining ressie 'day of' at a kiosk, etc. but we have been sort of going the middle ground of some ressies, some spontaneity - and, yes, we do still enjoy our trips!

What I hate most - some posters on this thread and others - saying basically to 'get over it, as this is the way it's going to be'!! Duh, I think we all 'know' that, but it's called 'our opinion, our feelings', and I think we are all entitled to tell how it impacts us personally. It's not just 'your' way, or 'my' way - this is a discussion board which many seem to forget!

I know people that 'have' to have everything nailed down to the minute (nearly literally) for their vacations, and that is great 'for them'. We all enjoy vacations differently according to our needs/personalities. I don't begrudge others their way of thinking/doing, and I feel the same way for myself.

 

[Robo]

There you have it.

 

[Turn the Page]

It sounds to me like the author of this article looked at the Dis and bought into the some of the hyperbole thrown around here hook, line, and sinker.

The biggest clue is when he says that if you don't book your FPs at 12:01 you might as well not bother because they're all gone. And his comment about "mission control" reminds me of the hysterical Disers who compare a Disney trip to a military operation. I don't know of any space flights or military operations that give you a full day to do 3 things, and an hour window to accomplish each of them, and then give you freedom to do whatever you want the rest of the day. And let you change your mind if you decide to do something else instead of the things planned in advance.

I got the biggest laugh out of the comment that his 5 year old daughter would be keeping an eye on the clock lest she miss her opportunity to meet Anna and Elsa. I highly doubt that a 5 year old is going to let a few FP reservations spoil her ability to enjoy a day at the MK. If the day is spoiled, that is the fault of upright parents, not Disney.

And, I totally agree with a PP's comments about the author's fond memories of when characters roamed free. When our daughters were 5 and younger, those character encounters were some of the only stressful moments of our trips. I have video evidence of our girls being shoved out of the way by bigger kids and their parents while they tried to get a picture or autograph.

Like a lot of other posters, I enjoy planning trips, especially to places that I have never visited before. When we took a trip to Colorado recently, if I hadn't done some reading and planning in advance, I wouldn't have known that (1) if you want to tour the Denver mint, you have to have a reservation, and those reservations disappear within minutes after they become available at midnight Eastern time (not Mountain Time) 30 days out, (2) if you want to take the Cog train to the summit of Pike's Peak, you have to make a reservation at least a week or two in advance or you are left with showing up and hoping for cancellations, and (3) if you don't arrive at Rocky Mountain Narional Park by 9 AM on a busy summer day, you will not get a parking spot in the park and ride in the park, and will have to park outside the park and take a shuttle to the park and ride to catch another bus to the popular hiking trails. By planning ahead, I was able to enjoy my trip a lot more than if we had just shown up, and the rest of the family just got to go along for the ride, oblivious to the fact that I had set all of these things up for them (except for the fact that I have a tendency to remind them of the work I did).

By comparison, because we are regular visitors to WDW, planning a trip there is a piece of cake. We know the lay of the land and what we like to do, and picking out which parks to visit which days and what FPs to select takes literally minutes. Then I can sit back and wait for the trip. That's why I'm always amazed that it's the frequent visitors who are the biggest and most constant complainers about the amount of planning a trip to WDW takes.

I have to say I agree with a lot of this.

I live in a tourist area. People come up every summer. What truly amazes me is the sheer number of people who show up and then say "what is there to do around here?" You mean you don't know? You made a hotel reservation, drove all the way up here, and you have no idea what there is to do? I truly can't fathom just being like "hey, my friends say Mackinac Island is nice. I think I'll try it." They make a reservation at a hotel, drive up here, and say "what do you mean I can't drive over to the island? You mean the bridge doesn't swing over there?" If you don't know there are no cars on the island that means you did absolutely zero research before your trip. At that point, I don't feel a bit sorry for you when you complain about not liking your trip.

 

[Turn the Page]

In the same way that someone completely self-induces stress when standing in front of a firing squad.
Don't blame the riflemen.

Oh come on. A Disney vacation is not for everyone. Some people want to just show up and do whatever they want whenever they want to do it with minimal lines. Disney is just not really conducive to that. If you want to have your cake and eat it to then WDW is probably not the best vacation destination for your style of vacationing. And there is nothing wrong with that. What gets me is the people who want to try and make a WDW vacation something it's not and then complain because it didn't work the way they wanted it to. It's not for everybody, it won't work for everybody and everybody can't make it work the way they want it to.

And it certainly doesn't mean it's always Disney's fault that someone didn't have a good time on their vacation.

Basically, the bottom line is this. If you don't want to do a lot of planning (I.E. decide what day you are going to be at MK and schedule an AE fastpass) but you still want to meet Anna and Elsa then you are going to wait for a few hours in line. The choice is yours. If you decide to fly by the seat of your pants then don't complain about the line. Would you show up to a Broadway play with no tickets? No. So why do people think they can show up to the most popular vacation destination in the world without doing any advanced planning beyond hotel reservations?

It really boggles my mind.

 

[Turn the Page]

Except these days one is FORCED to plan IF they want to do ANYTHING other than walk around or shop at WDW. So far, you don't need reservations for that. I live an hour away and have AP's. I'm fortunate in that I can go anytime I like, but I don't. Our AP's were a huge waste of money this year. I can't just say to DH, "Hey, let's go to Disney today." Of course we could go, but we wouldn't be able to eat at favorite sit down restaurants, ride favorite rides, see favorite shows, etc. Why? Because I didn't plan 60 days out and everything we like has already been reserved by those who stayed up until midnight when their window of opportunity opened. Now, we even have to pre-book things like Candlelight Processional and Eat to the Beat Concerts. It's simply not worth the hassle. The solution for us is to simply not renew our passes this year--or ever.

Of course you can do most of those things without reservations. You can ride any ride you want without a fastpass you are just going to wait in line. You know, like the way you had to do it way back before legacy FP was a thing.

Again, you can't have it both ways. You can't not plan anything and also expect to be able to do whatever you want whenever you want to do it. Why would you think you could?