BOG breakfast for Mine train warning! Early ride not guaranteed

[Angel Ariel]

No that is not what happened. They said they could not get into 7DMT line is all, they could do anything else they wanted. Nobody knows for sure why it happened, it could have been something going on that nobody knew about.

The op said they were prevenTed from getting into a line for an attraction *after* park opening. It doesn't matter if it was 1 ride or 5 rides. The ride was open, as RD guests were being allowed to enter. If other guests are allowed to enter the line, those in the park for breakfasr should not be prevented from doing so.

 

[pooch]

Just my 2 cents, been on 7DMT and I can't imagine doing anything out of the ordinary to ride it. Frankly its just not that special!! Getting up early, paying for what appears to me to be a limited uninspiring menu, taking the chance of fighting the early morning hoards? for 7DMT? Yeah, I think not.

 

[cakebaker]

The op said they were prevenTed from getting into a line for an attraction *after* park opening. It doesn't matter if it was 1 ride or 5 rides. The ride was open, as RD guests were being allowed to enter. If other guests are allowed to enter the line, those in the park for breakfasr should not be prevented from doing so.

What I suspect they were prevented from doing is breaking into a line being formed by the rope droppers. If one just thinks of the existing conditions, I can understand why- IF- the CM's hold the BOG crowd back just a moment too long. The rope drop crowd arrives in a huge group of people. For someone to come in the other direction and get in to the front of the crowd probably wouldn't go over well. And as has been proven by a video just a week or so ago, it only takes a couple of people losing their tempers before a fight breaks out. It's sad, but that's the mentality today- get mad, start punching.

So- I can see where again - IF- the CM's are directing the BOG people to the standby line and the rope drop crowd has arrived, they would be instructed to go to the back of the line, rather than try and push their way into an already forming line at the front.

One has no right to anything except entry into the parks. CM's are allowed to direct the flow of people however they see fit in order to maintain control. If that means some people are cut off from getting into a line- that's the way it goes.

And who knows why this happens, but it does seem rare and we only have 1 first hand report of it happening. Not a trend, not even common place. What BOG pre-opening diners have a right to is a meal they paid for. Once they're in the park, their movements can be controlled by CM's. This isn't a rights issue or a matter of fairness.

 

[AquaDame]

Just my 2 cents, been on 7DMT and I can't imagine doing anything out of the ordinary to ride it. Frankly its just not that special!! Getting up early, paying for what appears to me to be a limited uninspiring menu, taking the chance of fighting the early morning hoards? for 7DMT? Yeah, I think not.

Yeah, but you have been on it. Maybe it will be our new best ride ever, maybe we'll think the same as you. Only one way to know for sure...

 

[GaryDis]

lol!! Pretty funny to call that mass of humanity a line. I supposed everyone politely waits while the people who got there first with their strollers, wheelchairs and elderly walk in an orderly fashion to the ride.

As I've said previously, my only experience with RD was at DL, for Indiana Jones. And while strollers and tots weren't particularly common in the IJ procession, that's exactly what it was: an orderly, if enthusiastic walk to the IJ ride.

But then again, I've seen comments elsewhere about how the DL crowds are more laid back, due to a higher percentage of locals who don't need to cram the entire experience into a one week vacation.

 

[cakebaker]

There is a line at the front of the park. If you are not in it at RD, and instead are at a restaurant, I think its fair to send you to the back of it.

You may think so, but I don't think WDW is ever going to force ADR's out of the park and make them re-enter thru the gates after the park is open because they booked a pre-opening adr. I'm not sure how you think that would even be accomplished and who would even benefit from it.

And if there's a line at the front of the park, I sure wish someone would tell me where it is- there is no line. There's a mass of humanity being held back by CM's and a rope. You are free to get in front of anyone who is a step slower than you.

 

[Jennasis]

You may think so, but I don't think WDW is ever going to force ADR's out of the park and make them re-enter thru the gates after the park is open because they booked a pre-opening adr. I'm not sure how you think that would even be accomplished and who would even benefit from it.

And if there's a line at the front of the park, I sure wish someone would tell me where it is- there is no line. There's a mass of humanity being held back by CM's and a rope. You are free to get in front of anyone who is a step slower than you.

You disagree with me (though I said nothing remotely akin to WDW forcing ADR's holders out of the park to re-enter). No sweat off my tush.

 

[gappedout]

I had a BOG 8am reservation on Monday. We were done by 8:30 and held in a line at the side of 7DMT. At 9 am exactly, guests with breakfast reservations were let into the FP line. Unfortunately, the ride was down so we got out of line after about 10 minutes. Definitely no opportunity to ride multiple times with the reservation.

 

[cakebaker]

You disagree with me (though I said nothing remotely akin to WDW forcing ADR's holders out of the park to re-enter). No sweat off my tush.

I did indeed mis-read your post. My apologies. I'm glad your tush could handle it!

 

[Rosebud123]

Just my 2 cents, been on 7DMT and I can't imagine doing anything out of the ordinary to ride it. Frankly its just not that special!! Getting up early, paying for what appears to me to be a limited uninspiring menu, taking the chance of fighting the early morning hoards? for 7DMT? Yeah, I think not.

This just gave me a lot to think about. We have an 8:00 a.m. ADR, which means we get up an hour earlier. Although we plan on splitting a few meals, I'm sure the 5 of us won't get out of there for under $60. I wonder if I should bother.... Think I've been so caught up in the hype of getting there early and getting at least one ride of SDMT with no wait.

 

[Angel Ariel]

What BOG pre-opening diners have a right to is a meal they paid for.

I have never said that a pre park adr entitles anyone to anything other than the meal.

 

[cakebaker]

I have never said that a pre park adr entitles anyone to anything other than the meal.

What you said was...

The ride was open, as RD guests were being allowed to enter. If other guests are allowed to enter the line, those in the park for breakfasr should not be prevented from doing so.

In general, they should be able to enter any line at any time, but when they are not, they are not having their rights infringed upon. All one has with a ticket is the promise of entry into the park. CM's are well within their rights to directs crowds and that may well include being denied entering a line at a specific moment in time.

 

[Summertinkerbell]

What you describe is still the situation. During the rope drop/walk the cast members at the hub will shout instructions about where to assemble/go for specific attractions such as SDMT. If you go to the path to the right of Cinderella Castle per the instructions, then cast members rope-walk that group into the park and over to SDMT, where the actual line then forms at the standby queue entrance.

That was not the case when I was there 2 weeks ago.

 

[Angel Ariel]

What you said was...



In general, they should be able to enter any line at any time, but when they are not, they are not having their rights infringed upon. All one has with a ticket is the promise of entry into the park. CM's are well within their rights to directs crowds and that may well include being denied entering a line at a specific moment in time.

I'm aware of what I said, which is why I was confused as to the comment regarding perks of pre park adrs. I have said multiple times in this thread that pre park adrs only guarantee you the meal you paid for. Park admission is something else entirely.

As for the crowd control viewpoint - given that this has seemed to be a very unusual occurrence, it does not seem likely to be a crowd control issue since this event (pre park adr) happens rather often, if not daily at points during the year). If safety issues were the foremost concern in this regard I have the utmost faith in Disney that they would be consistent in their handling of the problem as they have always been.

others feel differently, that's fine. We are not likely to ever know the reasoning one way or the other.

 

[Mome Rath]

I think it comes down to this:

If you believe that the official line for 7D is always at the ride, and that's immutable, and that the RD crowd is just a random group of people who happen to be heading that way, you'll believe that Disney has no right or rationale to stop people at BOG from heading directly to 7D as soon as the rope drops.

If you believe that Disney can say that prior to RD, the line for 7D forms at the rope at the main gate, and that's the official line for the ride, and at RD, a CM will relocate the line to the ride, then you'll believe that it's reasonable for Disney to say that if you want to ride 7D at opening, you need to be at the main gate before RD to join the official, movable line.

Some people disagree with Disney choosing to take the second approach, and that's fine - people have a right to various opinions. Some people simply don't understand how the second approach could possibly be valid, but I don't know what else can be said on that. Some people think they have some sort of inherent right, regardless of any crazy line organization Disney might choose, but no, in the absence of any clearly false advertising, it's Disney's parks, Disney's rules.

That's some postmodernist points right there.

Of course the line is at the ride, and Disney has not chosen to take the second approach with rides (there are clear "stand by" entrances marked on all rides, and none of them are out in front of the park, and with Dwarves they have castmembers with a movable sign to show the actual start of the line, again not in front of the park). The right of the ticketholder comes in with a contractual agreement when the ticket is purchased and valid entry is gained into the parks.

 

[Overexcited]

I think the overall frustrating thing is the inconsistency. We had a ADR for Tusker House before RD once, the CM was so rude and refused to let us in before RD. Drop was 9am and we had a 8:50 ADR. I had to go to customer service and ask them to call the restaurant. The original CM was angry and followed us to the podium to check in for the ADR. Next day at MK, we walked in without a problem.
I have never considered a early spot on a ride, but early ADR give the advantage of great pictures in a empty park. This is why we do them.

 

[GaryDis]

I think it constitutes A line but not THE line for 7DMT. THE line for any ride is at the actual ride.

Of course the line is at the ride, and Disney has not chosen to take the second approach with rides (there are clear "stand by" entrances marked on all rides, and none of them are out in front of the park, and with Dwarves they have castmembers with a movable sign to show the actual start of the line, again not in front of the park).

You're both imposing architectural constraints on a policy decision. Let's suppose, regardless of whether it's a good, bad, fair, unfair policy, that Disney decides they want to have the 7D line start be at the RD location every day at 9AM, at which point they'll move it. What do they need to do? Cover up the signs at the 7D ride? Physically detach the "official" sign and move it to the RD? Just create a handheld sign for the CM to use? Publish the policy on the web site page for the ride?

I don't think it's a valid complaint. If indeed it's their intent to create an official line at the RD location (and remember, I'm just extrapolating from my DL experience), they might be doing a poor job of communicating that intent, but I don't think you can say that it's physically impossible for them to implement such a policy because you've decided that the one and only official line is the one at the ride. How is that different from saying that Disney can't have the Wishes FP+ area because it's part of the park, and the rest of the day a park ticket allows you to be on those spots (other than signage)?

BTW, my recollection from my DL IJ experience is that the CM leading the line carried a sign, but I honestly don't remember whether the sign was a small portrait of Indiana Jones, or a Chip and Dale or some other generic Disney-related sign. Nevertheless, we were told that that sign, and that CM, was the front of the IJ line (whether not they used the actual word "line").

 

[JoshuaShaw]

You're both imposing architectural constraints on a policy decision. Let's suppose, regardless of whether it's a good, bad, fair, unfair policy, that Disney decides they want to have the 7D line start be at the RD location every day at 9AM, at which point they'll move it. What do they need to do? Cover up the signs at the 7D ride? Physically detach the "official" sign and move it to the RD? Just create a handheld sign for the CM to use? Publish the policy on the web site page for the ride?

I don't think it's a valid complaint. If indeed it's their intent to create an official line at the RD location (and remember, I'm just extrapolating from my DL experience), they might be doing a poor job of communicating that intent, but I don't think you can say that it's physically impossible for them to implement such a policy because you've decided that the one and only official line is the one at the ride. How is that different from saying that Disney can't have the Wishes FP+ area because it's part of the park, and the rest of the day a park ticket allows you to be on those spots (other than signage)?

BTW, my recollection from my DL IJ experience is that the CM leading the line carried a sign, but I honestly don't remember whether the sign was a small portrait of Indiana Jones, or a Chip and Dale or some other generic Disney-related sign. Nevertheless, we were told that that sign, and that CM, was the front of the IJ line (whether not they used the actual word "line").

You're right, they can do that. The point is that they haven't.

 

[Mome Rath]

You're right, they can do that. The point is that they haven't.

Precisely. And if they do that, then indeed the rules change for all ticket holders during regular park hours, not just some.

 

[Carrie in AZ]

but early ADR give the advantage of great pictures in a empty park. This is why we do them.

Me too. My favorite thing ever!