The New Windows 10 - Anyone install it yesterday? Thoughts?

[rucifee]

But you're not sharing your password...

a few important things in the FAQ about Wi-Fi Sense:



http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/wi-fi-sense-faq

Yes, you share a two way (reversible) encrypted copy of your WIFI passphrase which gets stored on Microsoft's servers. It won't take long before someone figures out how it's salted and is able to decrypt them. Just because Microsoft says nothing can go wrong, that doesn't mean nothing can go wrong. Microsoft isn't well known for security excellence.

 

[SkaGoat]

Yes, you share a two way (reversible) encrypted copy of your WIFI passphrase which gets stored on Microsoft's servers. It won't take long before someone figures out how it's salted and is able to decrypt them. Just because Microsoft says nothing can go wrong, that doesn't mean nothing can go wrong. Microsoft isn't well known for security excellence.

I beg to differ, sure there have been issues, but those are usually programming errors. Their strategy, methodology and implementation has usually been sound.

Microsoft's track record for security is pretty good when you consider they are the largest target for such attacks.

Even if someone were to discover the hash, once it's public knowledge, you simply change your password.... Crisis averted.

We don't know exactly how it works, my guess is it's a form of public/private key encryption. I would doubt they salt the hash the same way with every user.


Again FUD, people who are afraid of change. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's bad.

I primarily am a Mac user and I think this is a great feature.

 

[rucifee]

I beg to differ, sure there have been issues, but those are usually programming errors. Their strategy, methodology and implementation has usually been sound.

Microsoft's track record for security is pretty good when you consider they are the largest target for such attacks.

Even if someone were to discover the hash, once it's public knowledge, you simply change your password.... Crisis averted.

We don't know exactly how it works, my guess is it's a form of public/private key encryption. I would doubt they salt the hash the same way with every user.


Again FUD, people who are afraid of change. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's bad.

I primarily am a Mac user and I think this is a great feature.

Their strategy was to ignore it and it would go away, until Bill Gates publicly announced they would improve. That led to XP SP3. Their implementation leaves much to be desired, but their security was so good that their source code was stolen.

Once it's public knowledge, you simply change your password? Microsoft has a history of working with the NSA, and they've been compromised before. How long between compromise and public knowledge are you comfortable with? Crisis averted? Yeah, umm, ok.

Microsoft described exactly how it works, and there is only one way to authenticate to a WIFI, you have to pass the key during the handshake and in order to do that Windows has to decrypt the key. You're right, they wouldn't salt the hash the same way for every user but it has to be salted in a way that anyone who it's shared with can decrypt it meaning it's not a unique salt.

It's not FUD, just because you don't personally understand the ramifications of it, that doesn't mean other people don't.

"Mac user", like that's at all relevant. So am I, and I'm also a Windows user, and a I'm a developer too. Whooptee doo.

 

[Carrie_Cat]

I've rolled back to my windows 7 and I'm staying like that atm

 

[SkaGoat]

Their strategy was to ignore it and it would go away, until Bill Gates publicly announced they would improve. That led to XP SP3. Their implementation leaves much to be desired, but their security was so good that their source code was stolen.

Once it's public knowledge, you simply change your password? Microsoft has a history of working with the NSA, and they've been compromised before. How long between compromise and public knowledge are you comfortable with? Crisis averted? Yeah, umm, ok.

"Mac user", like that's at all relevant. So am I, and I'm also a Windows user, and a I'm a developer too. Whooptee doo.

XP SP3 was 7 years ago. Microsoft is a completely different company than they were then. There have been almost no huge security vulnerabilities since Vista. All the bug fixes, and exploits are usually because of Java or Flash.

Since it's my Wi-Fi password.... I wouldn't be super panicked about it. A few months with someone knowing how to decrypt it would be ok with me.

I only mentioned that I'm primarily a Mac user so you didn't think I was some Microsoft fanboy.

Not upgrading to Windows 10 because of Wi-Fi Sense is silly, if you don't want the feature, just turn it off.

 

[rucifee]

XP SP3 was 7 years ago. Microsoft is a completely different company than they were then. There have been almost no huge security vulnerabilities since Vista. All the bug fixes, and exploits are usually because of Java or Flash.

Since it's my Wi-Fi password.... I wouldn't be super panicked about it. A few months with someone knowing how to decrypt it would be ok with me.

I only mentioned that I'm primarily a Mac user so you didn't think I was some Microsoft fanboy.

Not upgrading to Windows 10 because of Wi-Fi Sense is silly, if you don't want the feature, just turn it off.

If it was opt-in that would be one thing, and make the whole thing a non-issue. Sadly, it's opt out and to turn it off you have to change your WIFI settings on your router.

 

[SkaGoat]

If it was opt-in that would be one thing, and make the whole thing a non-issue. Sadly, it's opt out and to turn it off you have to change your WIFI settings on your router.

No you don't....

Go into "Manage Wi-Fi Settings" and uncheck all the boxes under "For networks I select, share them with my"

Also, the Check box under where you type in your password (share network with my contacts) when first connecting to your hotspot is NOT checked by default.

The last thing, is one setting in your Wi-Fi router, if you really feel you need to, you can add "_optout" to your SSID, and Wi-Fi Sense won't work with that hotspot.

ie. if you SSID was "JoesWIFI" you just have to make it "JoesWIFI_optout"

 

[Domo]

Stuff Windows. Everyone install Linux!

 

[rucifee]

No you don't....

Go into "Manage Wi-Fi Settings" and uncheck all the boxes under "For networks I select, share them with my"

Also, the Check box under where you type in your password (share network with my contacts) when first connecting to your hotspot is NOT checked by default.

The last thing, is one setting in your Wi-Fi router, if you really feel you need to, you can add "_optout" to your SSID, and Wi-Fi Sense won't work with that hotspot.

ie. if you SSID was "JoesWIFI" you just have to make it "JoesWIFI_optout"

Are you going to manage the wifi settings on every single computer that ever connects to your wireless network? Right...you have to change your ssid to add _optout to opt out properly. What was it I said? Oh yeah that's right, I said you have to change settings on your wifi. Thanks for confirming what I just said for me.

 

[rucifee]

Stuff Windows. Everyone install Linux!

Yes, then your wireless won't even work, problem solved!

 

[SkaGoat]

Are you going to manage the wifi settings on every single computer that ever connects to your wireless network? Right...you have to change your ssid to add _optout to opt out properly. What was it I said? Oh yeah that's right, I said you have to change settings on your wifi. Thanks for confirming what I just said for me.

Whoa! you are will to give your Wi-Fi password, the actual password, to just anyone that wants to use it?? That is far more insecure than using Wi-Fi Sense.

You said settings.... it's one setting, the SSID for the hotspot.

 

[cybrkitn]

Stuff Windows. Everyone install Linux!

Just shared your comment with DH, who works in IT. He got a good chuckle out of it

Sorry I haven't been that active in this thread that I started. My family was just hit with the death of two friends from our church recently. We just went to a wake today and after coming home, found out that another member of our church just passed away this afternoon

 

[Domo]

Sorry I haven't been that active in this thread that I started. My family was just hit with the death of two friends from our church recently. We just went to a wake today and after coming home, found out that another member of our church just passed away this afternoon

Oh dear, I'm so sorry

 

[Ceila]

If I understand Wifi Sense correctly, anyone who has ever typed in our wifi password could "share" that with their contacts if they upgrade to 10 and activate it. We've been very selective as to who we have allowed to use our wifi, but that doesn't mean I know their contacts. While the possibility of one of those individuals being able to connect to us is small, it is still possible.

To completely prevent that, then, the only thing I can do is to add _optout to our wifi name. I assume that means we need to adjust the name on every device our family uses?

 

[rucifee]

If I understand Wifi Sense correctly, anyone who has ever typed in our wifi password could "share" that with their contacts if they upgrade to 10 and activate it. We've been very selective as to who we have allowed to use our wifi, but that doesn't mean I know their contacts. While the possibility of one of those individuals being able to connect to us is small, it is still possible.

To completely prevent that, then, the only thing I can do is to add _optout to our wifi name. I assume that means we need to adjust the name on every device our family uses?

That's absolutely right, anyone who you share your WIFI password with (normally people you trust) could unintentionally share it with all of their contacts in Skype and Outlook.com, and if they opt-in on Facebook too. You're also right that you would have to re-connect all of your devices to the WIFI under the new name which most often requires re-entering the passphrase on every device that needs to be re-connected.

I only share my personal WIFI network with people I absolutely trust, but rather than look over their shoulders to make sure they uncheck the box or turn all the WIFI SENSE stuff off, I'll just opt out. I have a guest network for normal guests, but even then I don't want to be forced to use part of my bandwidth as a member of some big mesh network unless I choose to be. I still have a few devices left to set back up. It's a real pain to have to go through all of this as many homes have 40+ WIFI devices. Tablets, Phones, Computers, TVs, BluRay players, Printers, Time Capsules, etc.

 

[Ceila]

That's absolutely right, anyone who you share your WIFI password with (normally people you trust) could unintentionally share it with all of their contacts in Skype and Outlook.com, and if they opt-in on Facebook too. You're also right that you would have to re-connect all of your devices to the WIFI under the new name which most often requires re-entering the passphrase on every device that needs to be re-connected.

I only share my personal WIFI network with people I absolutely trust, but rather than look over their shoulders to make sure they uncheck the box or turn all the WIFI SENSE stuff off, I'll just opt out. I have a guest network for normal guests, but even then I don't want to be forced to use part of my bandwidth as a member of some big mesh network unless I choose to be. I still have a few devices left to set back up. It's a real pain to have to go through all of this as many homes have 40+ WIFI devices. Tablets, Phones, Computers, TVs, BluRay players, Printers, Time Capsules, etc.

Thanks for confirming. I'm not an IT person; I know just enough to be dangerous, lol.

I feel like it's pretty unethical of Microsoft to impose this on people. Even if I never choose to upgrade, I still have to reset things.

 

[erin1715]

I've rolled back to my windows 7 and I'm staying like that atm

You can roll back?? I need to do that!

 

[rucifee]

You can roll back?? I need to do that!

Yes you can, it's in settings under recovery. I've seen reports that rolling back fails about 40% of the time, take a backup first.

 

[BrianL]

I bit the bullet last night and went to 10. The upgrade was super easy and fast, with no issues. I'm not sure I love it however. I was one of those who actually liked Windows 8.1 quite a lot, and this new version doesn't really seem any better (and I miss a few interface things). I assume most of the changes are "under the hood" and I'll never really notice them. Oh well, at least the little icon will stop bugging me about it!

 

[Ceila]

I saw this on Imgur...just posting the link because the language isn't Dis-friendly. Several defaults that users may want to change if they upgrade:

http://imgur.com/gallery/I8u2G