LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Hokie2000]

I take about 4-5 trips a year. I have enough personal data points to have a very good idea of pre and post FP+ implementation has affected my vacation. I have one more planned for April and then I'm letting my AP expire. How many times since FP+ have you gone?

I'm not sure why you think it is somehow wrong to want to ride both Soarin' and TT without waiting twice in one day. We used to do each TWICE on Epcot day now we are down to one or the other once. A whopping total of 4 rides isn't much to ask for the amount of money I spend. There were days when it was arrive at RD do two things and leave. So what? I also watch Impression's De France at LEAST twice during our Epcot afternoons, usually solo as my family won't sit through it more than once in one trip but I adore it. What is so wrong about that? Why shouldn't I ride or watch what I want? If you wanted to ride small world 2-3 times in one day good for you. It's your vacation. Now if someone were complaining about not riding Space Mountain 10 times in a row it would be one thing but going from 2 rides on 2 attractions in one day to one OR the other that is a reduction of 75%.

I'm wondering how WDW is going to fare at getting the first time visitor or occasional visitor to flip to a frequent visitor and fan. Preventing them from doing what they want doesn't sound like sound strategy. Taking the theme park out of our theme park vacation isn't drawing us there. It will be interesting to see how their attendance figures fare going forward.

I bolded the key phrase. Do first-time visitors expect to ride rides without waiting? It would surprise me if they did. Maybe now with the marketing of FP+ they will expect 3 rides without waiting but that's what they're getting.

There's a reason we drive 12 hours to stay at WDW for a week every year. It's certainly not just for the rides - my favorite roller coasters are only 2 hours away.

 

[Laketravis]

I would be willing to bet in the time it took you to go look up and quote that thread, close to a thousand guests entered a Disney park. And almost all of them will not come out to these boards. They will never post. Yet they will spend their day making memories and having a wonderful time.....

I pretty much stopped reading after you assumed that almost all of them will be having a wonderful time.


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[grimley1968]

Is it? Here's yet another thread started just an hour ago by someone who just got back and isn't satisfied: http://www.disboards.com/threads/just-home-my-thoughts.3386052/ ...

Just read that thread. It is indeed sad, and I'm afraid my next planned visit in October would be similar. I have several months yet to cancel if we decide to, but threads like that and some not-so-great word of mouth stories I've been hearing about Disney lately in the FP+ present make my "Cancel Finger" itch. The idea that I, who have been going to Disneyworld since spring 1972 with all the nostalgia that indicates, would consider cancelling a planned WDW vacation is breathtaking to me, and saddening.

I posted something similar to this in that thread, and it might be met with a "that leaves more for me" sort of response. This isn't "voting with my wallet" if I do cancel, because I don't expect Disney to change back to what I remember about them. But it may be necessary to salvage a family vacation where I don't feel like I'm wasting thousands of dollars.

 

[Hokie2000]

The closed building is still sitting there, getting harder to see with the bushes and trees growing around it:

View attachment 80580

There are some very valid opinions that Shanghai Disney is going to be a challenge. For one, the chinese culture isn't very familiar with Disney. Frozen, for example, grossed relatively little in that part of the world where 20% of the planet's population live.

I wonder why Wonders of Life was built on the "angular" side of FW, it doesn't seem to fit. I remember when Body Wars first opened - the line was incredibly long. This was "back in the day" (which was a Wednesday, btw ) so we were accustomed to waiting in line but that one stood out.

Interesting about Shanghai - only time will tell...

 

[JimmyV]

I bolded the key phrase. Do first-time visitors expect to ride rides without waiting? It would surprise me if they did.

New FP+ marketing tagline...

"Fast Pass Plus--First Timers Don't Know Any Better!"

 

[Laketravis]

New FP+ marketing tagline...

"Fast Pass Plus--First Timers Don't Know Any Better!"

Oh, so now you're calling first timers stupid, huh?


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[Hokie2000]

New FP+ marketing tagline...

"Fast Pass Plus--First Timers Don't Know Any Better!"

You know what I mean - is it a reasonable expectation to not wait in line at a theme park, especially for popular rides? I would say no. When I go to Busch Gardens I hope that it won't be crowded, but it almost always is. I could buy their front of the line pass but I'm too cheap! So we wait in line and we skip some things, but we always go back...

 

[Hokie2000]

Oh, so now you're calling first timers stupid, huh?

Obvs. That was my take-away from the post

 

[Laketravis]

You know what I mean - is it a reasonable expectation to not wait in line at a theme park, especially for popular rides? I would say no. When I go to Busch Gardens I hope that it won't be crowded, but it almost always is. I could buy their front of the line pass but I'm too cheap! So we wait in line and we skip some things, but we always go back...

I would say no as well, but I also think it goes a bit deeper than that. For instance, I hate waiting for anything. I was probably ADHD in school before anybody even knew what that was. But I didn't mind standing in line for 45-60 minutes for Forbidden Journey or Escape from Gringotts because the experience was so worth it. And of an acceptable duration. And the queue was awesome.

100 minutes for 7DMT that for many seems like a gentle little ride that's over right after it started? Not the same.


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[Hokie2000]

I would say no as well, but I also think it goes a bit deeper than that. For instance, I hate waiting for anything. I was probably ADHD in school before anybody even knew what that was. But I didn't mind standing in line for 45-60 minutes for Forbidden Journey or Escape from Gringotts because the experience was so worth it. And of an acceptable duration. And the queue was awesome.

100 minutes for 7DMT that for many seems like a gentle little ride that's over right after it started? Not the same.

I agree re: 7DMT - I enjoyed it but would not wait more than 30 minutes.

 

[Laketravis]

I agree re: 7DMT - I enjoyed it but would not wait more than 30 minutes.

That would be a stretch for me as well. And right now the wait is 70 minutes, almost two and a half times as long as either of us would be willing to wait.

I think that's where the expectations are skewed.


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[JimmyV]

is it a reasonable expectation to not wait in line at a theme park, especially for popular rides?

Perhaps not. But Disney developed a system that allowed MaryKate'sMom to:

• Pull FP at Soarin' at 9:05 with a return time of 10:00
• Get in line at Soarin' at 9:07 and ride after a 10 minute wait.
• Get in line at Test Track at 9:35 and ride after a 20 minute wait.
• Exit Test Track with FP window open again at 10:10. Get FP for TT with 12:15 return time.

She then had ridden each ride once and has a FP for each for a second ride. Total wait time for 4 headliners is 30 minutes. Was it reasonable for her to do that? Well, to the extent that Disney created the system that allowed it, and to the extent that 5,000 other people each day did exactly the same thing, then the answer is a definite "maybe". Now, had she been "cheating" or skirting the rules, or hacking the system to be able to do this, then no one could complain when Disney pulled the plug. But she was doing everything according to Hoyle and Disney pulled the plug. Her disappointment is understandable since her day, at best, would look like this:

• Get in line at Soarin' at 9:05 and ride after a 20 minute wait because FP people will have priority over her.
• Get in line at Test Track at 9:45 and ride after a 45-70 minute wait.
• Use her one FP for one of these two rides.

Total wait time for 3 headliners is 65-90 minutes. Maybe this is more "reasonable". But it is nothing less than a downgrade over her prior experiences. And she pays more for the privilege. But the good news is, Impressions de France is still a walk-on!

 

[Laketravis]

Right, so if Avatar is the end of new ride construction for awhile then I agree with your premise.....

I was just reading in another thread how Avatar was originally slated to have 3 attractions and a budget of ~$700M but that got cut to 2 attractions and ~$400M-$500M.

Apparently even Avatar wasn't immune.

I do wonder how Disney manages to spend so much money on these sorts of things. I know, I know - they aren't just building steel coasters and ferris wheels. But I just saw a new 10 mile toll road built, 6 tolled lanes and 6 service road lanes with overpasses and interchanges and toll collectors and right-of-way and what amounted to a three year construction project with thousands of workers yet it cost less than what Disney spends on a couple of attractions and a restaurant.

And I've heard unofficial reports that USO spent less than $200M on all of the HP additions.


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[flicx]

So there ya go. Your opinion is that it's not meeting customer satisfaction. But you haven't been in a few years, and I've been 3 times in the last 5. We've had a blast every time. I'd be willing to bet, 16,000,000 other guests will still go. And the year after, even more. Data suggests you're in the minority here. No -- "just wait" right? Attendance is going to go down?



Hah thought the question was rhetorical. No not a Disney exec. Simple Disney fan, thrill seeker, parent, and kid at heart. We go about once every 1-2 years. How about you? What brings you out to these boards if you haven't been in quite a few years and you're not planning to go back? If you haven't even been in the FP+ era why take such offense to it based on experiences of others? Mine being good and Jimmy's being bad seems maybe you should just decide to go and have fun.

To answer your first question. I would bet Disney World has a lot of return visitors. I honestly don't believe that half of there customers are first timers. Thus they have a past experience to rely on. When you basically stop building and keep upcharging and customer service really falls off in addition to this new fast pass plus system it spells a recipe for disaster for returning disers in the long run. The second part is a simple one. I have gone numerous times over a three decade plus time period. I have no expiration tickets I paid dearly for years ago. Now I sit here and listen to what other disers say and what kind of new attractions are being built and taken away and evaluate is it worth returning to yet. I find it very valuable. I honestly chuckle at the premise that I can't understand what is going on with fast pass plus by reading. We used to go every year in the late 80's and through most of the 90's. It was far far more affordable for my family then. Quite frankly I will continue to monitor the situation and if I feel some of the value has come back, then I may return. However until that point I will continue to monitor and wait!

 

[wdhinn89]

AK and HS visits are always half day for us. After the park we go back to the room to relax and head to either MK or EP for the next half of the day. When we go to EP we will just stay in FW. This is a popular way of touring and FP+ is great for this sort of scenario. I also never start my day at RD other than AK, we refuse to, we are on vacation and I don't want to need a vacation from my vacation. We are happy with what rides we get to go on but I can see that FP+ will benefit us. I am still not happy about the reports of longer SB rides but I will see how it is when we visit in May and judge for myself.

 

[Mikie]

Wow after reading through some of these posts I am worried. We have our first FP+ trip coming up in July. We too feel like we had a really good FP- system mapped out and didn't really wait in many lines much on our trips. I am really sad to hear that lines are longer now. Why is that? Because more people are using FP? We take short trips (2 days) due to cost and we will be quite disappointed if we can't do all of the things we used to do. Spreading things out through more days really isn't a financial option for so many people...I am sure there are many, like us, that maximize every day of park tickets we have by being in the park.

Anyway, I still have more research to do to get the best plan but I am now concerned. I would think that making FP+ for mid afternoon, when crowds seem to be highest, makes the most sense, but it sounds like our old strategy of being there at rope drop and enjoying low lines for the first 1.5 hours is not possible any more.

After DAYS I'm nearly at the end of this thread (not quite there yet). . . .but THIS is why I sometimes post on these endless FP+ stinks/is awesome posts. I was afraid before my trip and hate that others may be too. It's easier said than done to shut out negativity while still accessing the vast amount of extremely helpful DIS info.

I wish I could change the minds of the FP detractors, or at least soften the sometimes vehement opposition because the anticipation of a trip should be part of the FUN and it bums me out that a small number of FP+ detractors posting very frequently makes it appear that a larger number are all in agreement that vacations are ruined or severely reduced now. This is especially frustrating when I realized that some of the posters I put a lot of weight on turned out to have never even used the new system! before I started trying to pay attention to "who", I was trying to focus on their information only. Some people with tons of posts and long-ago join dates gave me info I considered heavily until I realized I was counted the same opinion repeated 10 times as 10 different opinions.

People on both sides have legitimate experiences to share, but for *me* the cost of being negatively influenced by detractors explaining that WDW kind of sucks now outweighed the benefit of their experience, so I try to pop in to say:

I was scared off before I went. I used but didn't "power use" the old system. The planning with FP+ was a bit intimidating and/or felt like "work" sometimes. However- once in the parks, I experienced higher crowds than past trips and was VERY GLAD to have put in the planning. My trip went great! My wait times were acceptable to good for my family. FP+ enhanced our vacation and I like it now.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I bolded the key phrase. Do first-time visitors expect to ride rides without waiting? It would surprise me if they did. Maybe now with the marketing of FP+ they will expect 3 rides without waiting but that's what they're getting.

There's a reason we drive 12 hours to stay at WDW for a week every year. It's certainly not just for the rides - my favorite roller coasters are only 2 hours away.

You know what I mean - is it a reasonable expectation to not wait in line at a theme park, especially for popular rides? I would say no. When I go to Busch Gardens I hope that it won't be crowded, but it almost always is. I could buy their front of the line pass but I'm too cheap! So we wait in line and we skip some things, but we always go back...

We live about 2 hours from Hershey and we do buy their tour guy for the day. We also stay at Portofino Bay so we get their FOTL passes. But what can you do or buy to get more FP's? And WDW is way more expensive than the others and although the properties are nice not a reason to spend all that money.

 

[MrInfinity]

100 minutes for 7DMT that for many seems like a gentle little ride that's over right after it started? Not the same.

Yep. Yet... you have a trip to WDW planned... in which on your arrival day you have time to do one ride... at one park, having an AP to both Universal and Disney. And which ride is that you choose? Hint... no... it's not Gringotts. It's SDMT. You even went out of your way to get Fast Passes to it in advance.

 

[Luckybee]

"

After DAYS I'm nearly at the end of this thread (not quite there yet). . . .but THIS is why I sometimes post on these endless FP+ stinks/is awesome posts. I was afraid before my trip and hate that others may be too. It's easier said than done to shut out negativity while still accessing the vast amount of extremely helpful DIS info.

I wish I could change the minds of the FP detractors, or at least soften the sometimes vehement opposition because the anticipation of a trip should be part of the FUN and it bums me out that a small number of FP+ detractors posting very frequently makes it appear that a larger number are all in agreement that vacations are ruined or severely reduced now. This is especially frustrating when I realized that some of the posters I put a lot of weight on turned out to have never even used the new system! before I started trying to pay attention to "who", I was trying to focus on their information only. Some people with tons of posts and long-ago join dates gave me info I considered heavily until I realized I was counted the same opinion repeated 10 times as 10 different opinions.

People on both sides have legitimate experiences to share, but for *me* the cost of being negatively influenced by detractors explaining that WDW kind of sucks now outweighed the benefit of their experience, so I try to pop in to say:

I was scared off before I went. I used but didn't "power use" the old system. The planning with FP+ was a bit intimidating and/or felt like "work" sometimes. However- once in the parks, I experienced higher crowds than past trips and was VERY GLAD to have put in the planning. My trip went great! My wait times were acceptable to good for my family. FP+ enhanced our vacation and I like it now.

Might it be that there are a large number who dont like fp+. Honestly I don't think there are just a "small number of fp+ detractors" . I think there are a small number of outspoken ones (just like the small number of outspoken pro fp+ people). Having said that I began to reread the boards in anticipation of our trip last Sept/Oct I do believe that there are a lot more detractors than there are pro fp+ overall. That doesn't mean the the Dis is representative of the gen'l population(or that it isn't) . All I do know is that there have been a lot of people very unhappy with fp+ and imho fewer who were happy. But lets assume it is 50% on ea side. That means that at least 50% will like it or tolerate it, and so they will all be happy. Then out of those who don't like it there will be a % for whom it still wont have any significant impact on their holiday. Then there will be those for whom it just doesn't work and they will be much less likely to come back or will drastically change their style of wdw holidays. (we fit in that category).

Some people know before going that they will hate it/love it. Some will not know how they feel before they experience the changes. Im glad we did a usual trip with fp+ I didn't know how we'd feel about it. I know now we cant do our usual Disney trips any longer. We still had a good time but that was in spite of fp+ (and Universal...a park we didn't like before) not because of fp+. We did decide for ourselves that it didn't work for us, and we were not by any means power users under fp-

You say you wish to soften or chg the minds of detractors ...why?.......I know fp+ didnt work for me. I experienced it, and Im entitled to say it didn't work for me. Im not suggesting that you shouldn't like it so why do you feel the need to "change my mind". I don't like it. Period. I also don't like Mexican food...do you want to talk me into a Mexican restaurant as well. Everyone is entitled to their own likes and dislikes which is something too many on these boards seem to forget !

Im guessing that you only want to see pretty clouds, and sparkles. That isnt going to happen unless you want people to stop being honest. Barely a day goes by when someone doesn't start a post giving their review on how the system works for them. I for one think that people should see the truth, whether that is geez I love fp+, geez I hate it, or somewhere in between. Then they can judge for themselves as to whether they wish to go/not go, decide for themselves, or not bother. What Im not going to do is suggest that only people who don't like fp+ should post on return from there trip so that people can only see the negative posts. Which is what you're doing. In the opposite of course.

 

[Mikie]

"
You say you wish to soften or chg the minds of detractors ...why?.......I know fp+ didnt work for me. I experienced it, and Im entitled to say it didn't work for me. Im not suggesting that you shouldn't like it so why do you feel the need to "change my mind". I don't like it. Period. I also don't like Mexican food...do you want to talk me into a Mexican restaurant as well. Everyone is entitled to their own likes and dislikes which is something too many on these boards seem to forget !

Im guessing that you only want to see pretty clouds, and sparkles. That isnt going to happen unless you want people to stop being honest. Barely a day goes by when someone doesn't start a post giving their review on how the system works for them. I for one think that people should see the truth, whether that is geez I love fp+, geez I hate it, or somewhere in between. Then they can judge for themselves as to whether they wish to go/not go, decide for themselves, or not bother. What Im not going to do is suggest that only people who don't like fp+ should post on return from there trip so that people can only see the negative posts. Which is what you're doing. In the opposite of course.

My comment is in response to criticisms directed at vocal FP+ supporters who sometimes get asked "Why do you insist on trying to change my mind?" And I'm kind of admitting I would like to change their minds a little. One, it's the system we've got and if you could learn to like it, your enjoyment of Disney wouldn't be damaged. Two, strictly in the sense of how it makes *me* feel (I recognize no one can MAKE anyone feel anything; my feelings are mine to own) when I was planning a first FP+ trip, I saw the negative reviews as largely:

visitors CAN'T have the same experience any more
it's simply a FACT that you CAN'T get as much done
you get 3 good rides and the rest of your day is extremely long lines
you'll be tied to a schedule you can't change
park hopping is no longer viable (this one seems to have changed over the months to swing in favor of FP+)

I am fairly confident that these things were often actually said, but I will concede that it's possible it's just how I took the comments (not interested in searching out months old quotes)

I assure you, I'm not trying to suggest AT ALL that detractors not post. . . I can learn a lot from other people's negative experiences and I'm even entertained by these debate threads. I don't want anyone to stop posting their negative views - I'm hoping that some of those negative views can be turned into positive ones! (See More for Less. . . ) But within these threads, many people ask why we bother to continue the debate and keep repeating similar arguments. I'm saying the reason I bother to post is because I hope that other people will not be pre-emptively dreading their trip; I hope that no one else gets the impression that I got that the negatives of FP+ were indisputable facts; I hope to be encouraging to people who are here looking for tips; I hope that the recent reader who hasn't been following all this for months will still hear both sides of the story.

I assure you, I'm not insisting on only pretty clouds and sparkles and I wish you wouldn't use phrasing like that to try to belittle people who have a different view than yours. My desire to express a positive doesn't mean I'm asking anyone to stop expressing their honest opinion. I'm not asking anyone to NOT post their view - I'm stating my positive view and simultaneously explaining why I personally, bother to beat this particular dead horse.