LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Hokie2000]

More or less ridiculous than the 58 page thread here?

Definitely less . But it's a very high bar!

 

[Luckybee]

Just out of curiosity - are some of the FP supporters only interested in defending FP when it's debated in a particular forum?



Not that I miss them or anything............

.

Interesting isn't it....lol

 

[Planogirl]

I wonder about the comments saying that FP- was so horrible too. Maybe those who really like FP+ had no idea that things could be so good?

In theory I have nothing against FP+. It is simply a way to pull fastpasses in advance rather than on the day of visit. I dislike having to micro-plan so much but I can understand that others actually enjoy it.

However I also dislike tiering and limits of three. I don't buy this notion that we are so limited because Disney wants to be fair to everyone. Maybe they want to give that perception however this system isn't "fair" but is a way to more vigorously market their onsite resorts. Plus I think that there will be more to come.

I know, Disney is a business that wants to make money, yadda yadda. I just thought that I would get that out of the way.

 

[MrInfinity]

You have spent 100 pages telling us that these goals are great and that they do enhance the guest experience. And now you tell us that this was not the goal, and even if it was, it was not met?

FP- is gone, isn't it? So irrelevant of whether you think it met its goals or not, I'm guessing it did not, else -- it would be there still.

• Before--Pulled FP at Soarin' and got a return time of 10:15
• Now--Use computer and get a return time of 10:15

How do the mechanics of the two systems differ such that FP+ has now gotten me on Soarin' faster and kept me out of lines more?

I don't care if it gets you on rides more. I care if it gets most guests on rides more (thus Disney is profitable, and continues to evolve its parks) and if it gets me wonderful vacations. I've found, that by doing things differently, I have as good -- or even better time than before. Things are a little different, yeah, but I'm a pretty tech-forward guy, I'll deal w it. I actually like the change from the competition being a foot-race in the park to being one on a computer where I have an edge.

For whom? As our friend from Virginia Tech points out, people weren't complaining about it. It certainly worked for me. And all of the other voices here who miss it.

All changes do not derive from complaints. Does every improvement have to start with dissatisfaction? Can something not be "great" and make it "better"? Even tho several guests might not think FP+ is great because it's no longer something they can capitalize on as easily, if it makes more money for Disney and gets most guests on more rides and gets me a great vacation then I think it's great. Doesn't matter that most guests weren't complaining. Disney World wasn't broke before, and it's not now. But it is... better. For a LOT of people other than you.

Really this is kind of why I haven't been posting recently. It's just been more "FP+ is worse for me, so it's a bad system" arguments with nothing new.

 

[Laketravis]

I don't buy this notion that we are so limited because Disney wants to be fair to everyone....

I don't buy that either. If it were truly the case, then they could match the number of people they admit into each park to attraction capacity and stop when that capacity is reached.

If TSMM can only accommodate 15,000 guests during operating hours today, then only let 15,000 guests in who want to ride it. Wouldn't that be "fair" ???

Of course you'd have to be given a specific time to ride so that nobody waits in line. That would be "fair" as well.

Or, they could build more attraction capacity. That would also be "fair".


.

 

[wisblue]

Yes. We've covered this. FP+ wins here. But while entering Epcot at 4:00 to go to Future World is certainly a possibility, it is quite likely a minority way to tour. Impossible to prove, but I would guess that the vast majority of guests who go to Future World each day arrive in the morning, and the majority of guests who enter Epcot at 4:00 are headed for World Showcase. So again, FP+ solved a problem that either didn't exist, or, existed for a small sliver of the park population. Of course, we will hear: "I go to Epcot in the afternoons, and under the old system I couldn't get a FP." But there was a workaround that was within the self-control of every such guest. Go earlier. The first time that I went to DHS after TSMM opened, I did not go at RD. I got a FP, but just barely. The second time I went, it was with some friends who didn't care about that ride whatsoever, and we arrived after RD and the FPs were gone by the time we arrived. Instead of whining about how getting to the park at 10:00 cut me off from getting a FP, I took the bull by the horns and arrived at RD the next time that I went with my family. I solved my own problem. I didn't need a FP allocation system to solve it for me.

I don't know either how common it is for people to be entering Epcot at 4 PM or later but, based on the number of people going through the turnstiles at that time, and people on these boards who talk about going to Epcot for dinner after spending the morning in another park, it isn't that uncommon either.

People arriving after 4 may be a minority, but I would bet big money that it is a much larger minority than the people who typically got 2 FPs a day for each of TT and Soarin, and that seems to be the minority you represent.

Now that's it's been more than a year since paper FP has been gone, I think it would be a good idea to take your own advice and take the bull by the horns and figure out how to deal with it. It really isn't hard to ride both of those rides once in a day if that's what you want to do.

 

[Laketravis]

It really isn't hard to ride both of those rides once in a day if that's what you want to do.

Even if you get there after 4?


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[MrInfinity]

I wonder about the comments saying that FP- was so horrible too. Maybe those who really like FP+ had no idea that things could be so good?

Plano, you know just like Hokie said, that those who like FP+ were not in any way saying FP- was horrible. I have repeatedly stated that I loved loved loved FP-. It was awesome. I could pull tickets, I never waited in line, etc. I knew things could be so good. You here imply that to like FP+, one must not have known how good it was. Back to the "less-educated" thing that you brought up before, and was met w a lot of resistance (because it is so rude to imply that if you like FP+ you didn't know things could be so good, or that you knew things could be so good, but others don't, so they like FP+). I knew FP-. I've been going to WDW/DL for almost 40 years. I used FP- as well as any.

But when it comes down to it, my experience with FP+ was really... not any worse. For all the hype. Users read these boards and think it's awful. But then I go... and I go on ride... after ride... after ride. All with short waits. No longer standby lines. No 90 min wait for everything. No hour for Figment. None of that. Headliners multiple times, secondary rides countless times, tons of dining, fixed ticket events, etc.

Really, what I conclude is that... FP+ has not significantly changed squat.
It's still Disney World, we still have a great time, we still ride about the same number of things.

* It moved the race from morning-of to 60-days out (which I like)
* It saves me time pulling tickets in park, or crossing from Soarin to TT to pull a ticket to come back later (which I like)
* It gets me access to the most desirable attractions because I stay onsite (which I like)
* It lets me plan days that were never before possible, like getting FP's to A&E and SDMT in one day penciled in around breakfast and BBB (which I like)
* I spent more time w my family (which I like)
* Upon completion of one ride, we did not feel like we had to hi-tail it to the next to grab that next ticket (which I like)
* This made for more relaxed feel, for we had all our valuable tickets pulled in advance (which I like)
* It made the rest of our days more spontaneous, because it got us on certain must-do's w/o effort. (which I like)
* I can change my day on my phone (which I like)

Do you not get that FP+ is really good in a LOT of ways -- for some people who are very experienced theme park guests? So many ways that the negatives of not getting TT and Soarin are FAR overshadowed by the benefits.

Now you can reply to every one of those bullets and say "nope, doesn't matter to me. Nope. Nope. Not this one either." But it doesn't matter. The reasons, either all, or in part, are why FP+ is being accepted in general.

The constant negativity seems way out of place. Especially given that you, Jimmy, Lake, and others are still going anyways. If it's a dealbreaker for you, don't go. Otherwise, strategize w me about how to use FP+ even better, given we will be using it, like it or not.

 

[wisblue]

Even if you get there after 4?

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Maybe, if you got a FP for one and tried the other as the park was closing or with single rider at TT.

But that wasn't my point. I was addressing Jimmy's comment about taking the bull by the horns and doing something about it instead of whining. If my goal is to ride both TT and Soarin (which it usually is) I would get to the park at opening and ride one, and maybe both, with short waits. But, I would have a FP for the second one (probably on a different day on which we were going to spend the evening at Epcot) as a safety valve or for a second ride on that one.

 

[grimley1968]

No longer standby lines.

I just checked the MDE app for wait times, and Spaceship Earth is shown with a 35 minute standby wait time at 11:40 AM on Tuesday, March 3. In my experience going to EPCOT since the year it opened, I have NEVER waited more than 5 minutes to ride this, no matter what time of day or time of year. Seems like a pretty significant change to me, and not for the better. Having to get a FP for Spaceship Earth to avoid a long line is beyond ridiculous, IMHO.

 

[wisblue]

I just checked the MDE app for wait times, and Spaceship Earth is shown with a 35 minute standby wait time at 11:40 AM on Tuesday, March 3. In my experience going to EPCOT since the year it opened, I have NEVER waited more than 5 minutes to ride this, no matter what time of day or time of year. Seems like a pretty significant change to me, and not for the better. Having to get a FP for Spaceship Earth to avoid a long line is beyond ridiculous, IMHO.

You DON'T have to get a FP for SSE to avoid a long line. You can EITHER get a FP OR ride it at one of the many times when the line is shorter. That time around noon has always been a peak time for lines at SSE (and they weren't always 5 minutes) so the simple advice is to not try to ride it then.

To me that's another example of taking the bull by the horns and doing something about a situation.

 

[grimley1968]

You DON'T have to get a FP for SSE to avoid a long line. You can EITHER get a FP OR ride it at one of the many times when the line is shorter. That time around noon has always been a peak time for lines at SSE (and they weren't always 5 minutes) so the simple advice is to not try to ride it then.

To me that's another example of taking the bull by the horns and doing something about a situation.

I've been on SE many times in the past around lunchtime (pre FP- and during FP-), and never waited more than 5 minutes.

 

[JimmyV]

Who is to blame for stripping away your ability to get TT and Soarin FPs?

Disney! They decided that they needed to cater more to the 100 people who enter Epcot for the first time at 4:00 p.m. and head to Future World than they need to cater to the thousands who arrived at 9:00 a.m. and invested their whole day there. They decided that each subset of guests were worthy of only one FP for their two headline attractions.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I miss that old group. I often wonder what became of so many of them.

Indeed. What would Landbaron think of FP+?!?!? I still keep in touch with some of that crew, been doing fantasy sports leagues with a bunch of them since back in the day.

 

[JimmyV]

...based on the number of people going through the turnstiles at that time, and people on these boards who talk about going to Epcot for dinner after spending the morning in another park, it isn't that uncommon either.

I accounted for that in my post. I said that most people who arrive at Epcot at 4:00 (or later) are heading for WS. The number of people entering at 4:00 who head toward FW is much smaller. But that is the group that Disney must cater to. An odd conclusion, to be sure.

As for getting to the park when it opens, that brings us full circle. FP+ is great because it opens up a whole host of new opportunities and touring strategies....except for people who actually want to ride the popular rides. They are left with one and only one strategy at tiered parks. Rope Drop. Great. That's what I call a billion dollar improvement.

 

[wisblue]

I've been on SE many times in the past around lunchtime (pre FP- and during FP-), and never waited more than 5 minutes.

I don't doubt that, but I have also seen long lines there many times too. As always, it depends on time of day and overall crowd level.

If I want to ride SSE I'll find a way to do it without waiting in a line that I find unacceptable.

 

[Jennytoon]

Yes. We've covered this. FP+ wins here. But while entering Epcot at 4:00 to go to Future World is certainly a possibility, it is quite likely a minority way to tour. Impossible to prove, but I would guess that the vast majority of guests who go to Future World each day arrive in the morning, and the majority of guests who enter Epcot at 4:00 are headed for World Showcase. So again, FP+ solved a problem that either didn't exist, or, existed for a small sliver of the park population. Of course, we will hear: "I go to Epcot in the afternoons, and under the old system I couldn't get a FP." But there was a workaround that was within the self-control of every such guest. Go earlier. The first time that I went to DHS after TSMM opened, I did not go at RD. I got a FP, but just barely. The second time I went, it was with some friends who didn't care about that ride whatsoever, and we arrived after RD and the FPs were gone by the time we arrived. Instead of whining about how getting to the park at 10:00 cut me off from getting a FP, I took the bull by the horns and arrived at RD the next time that I went with my family. I solved my own problem. I didn't need a FP allocation system to solve it for me.

I wonder about the comments saying that FP- was so horrible too. Maybe those who really like FP+ had no idea that things could be so good?

JimmyV, I agree with the vast majority of things that you write, but I think you have committed a logical fallacy here, which Planogirl has alluded to on albeit in a slightly different context.

I would agree with your statement that the problem solved by FP+ either didn't exist or was only for a small sliver of the population if it was the case that people's decision on when to visit the parks was independent of the ability to get FP-. If it is the case that people's decision to come at RD was affected by the ability to utilize FP- more effectively, then that argument doesn't apply. I can only speak for myself, but

1) We always went at RD, because we had kids who could only manage a half-day in the parks and we go in August -- with only 4-5 hours in the parks, we needed to be there early to manage headliners. Of course we got some benefit from general low crowds then, but a big part was we needed to ensure that FP- return times would occur while we were still in the park. As you note we didn't whine, we just did it, because there weren't other options -- we did what we needed to so that the system worked for us, and we were grateful that it made things easier than having no FP- at all. To PG's point, I would *never* have said FP- was bad if you asked me four years ago. NEVER.

2) All that said, in the absence of that constraint on FP- return times, on some days we would have chosen to arrive later at FW, do some stuff there, and have dinner in WS.

Since #2 was not an option for us before if we wanted to hit headliners, anyone observing our behavior would have concluded that we liked to go to the parks early, similar to your conclusion about entering at 4 being a minority way to tour. It is, of course, true that we still could have done option #2 and given up on riding headliners, and occasionally we did. But the point I'm trying to make here is that families make decisions on factors that are important to them -- lack of crowds, priority of being able to hit the headliners, family constraints, weather, etc. Once people have a significant potential to adjust behavior to accommodate FP- based on those priorities, you can't then say that that outlier behavior can be discarded when considering the problems that a FP type system must solve.

Am I in the minority? Maybe. But I read in lots of places about strategies for traveling with younger kids. It's a common recommendation to do only a half day in the parks. It's a common recommendation to take a morning off after an evening where you've caught fireworks or SpectroMagic. So maybe ... and maybe not.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I've been on SE many times in the past around lunchtime (pre FP- and during FP-), and never waited more than 5 minutes.

Since the start of FP+ for SE the line for FP+ has been as long or longer than the SB line ever was. Now instead of going whenever I want I have to schedule it in using a FP+

 

[wisblue]

Disney! They decided that they needed to cater more to the 100 people who enter Epcot for the first time at 4:00 p.m. and head to Future World than they need to cater to the thousands who arrived at 9:00 a.m. and invested their whole day there. They decided that each subset of guests were worthy of only one FP for their two headline attractions.

I would say that Disney is trying to accommodate the thousands who want to ride TT and/or Soarin once and not the small minority like you who are looking not just to ride each of them multiple times each, but to get 2 FPs for each of them.

Regardless, I am not chasing you around on this anymore. I am more interested in providing information that will help people plan their trips and sometimes that requires responding to statements that I think are false, or at best misleading. Like when you say that if someone wants to ride both TT and Soarin they have to wait in a line of over an hour for one of them. Have you ever had to do that? If not, why would you tell people that it's necessary?

If you and others want to commiserate about how terrible and unfair FP+ is and how Disney doesn't care about its customers, knock yourselves out. But, I may choose not to participate unless I see something useful.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I accounted for that in my post. I said that most people who arrive at Epcot at 4:00 (or later) are heading for WS. The number of people entering at 4:00 who head toward FW is much smaller. But that is the group that Disney must cater to. An odd conclusion, to be sure.

As for getting to the park when it opens, that brings us full circle. FP+ is great because it opens up a whole host of new opportunities and touring strategies....except for people who actually want to ride the popular rides. They are left with one and only one strategy at tiered parks. Rope Drop. Great. That's what I call a billion dollar improvement.

And RD isn't what it used to be either. I've been standing in the TSMM SB line right at opening while all the FP+ holders march past. Never happened prior to FP+. We always kept walking right up to loading. When we came to a stand still I thought the ride went down.