More Rules=My Broken Disney Heart

[tinkerone]

I know this isn't the popular response but I for one am happy about the changes to the dining. its often very hard to get a reservation. we are going in a few weeks and the two reservations I really wanted are not available for the whole time we are there. I know there are reservations out there that are just 'holders' and they will be no shows. It prevents me from getting one.
before you go on about how this will not change anything, people will still do it and cancel later, well you could be right but i'm betting it will be a lot easier for some to get what they want, that there will not be as many adr's made just on the off chance that someone will not remember to cancel and it will cost them $$.

I have heard of people making lots for about the same times for different parks because they are unsure of where they will be. it will be a pain in the *** to be canceling them at the last minute.

opp, I understand what your saying but it really comes down to do you want the reservation or not. I could make the argument that my dm is elderly and i'm not sure she will be able to make it through the day so we may have to change our plans last minute. your reason is your child, someone else's could be car problems. not trying to be cruel but there is always some reason for everyone as to why it could be difficult to do. maybe walk up is the way to go. that's what i'm going to have to do this trip if I have any hope in getting what I really want. maybe going forward that will change.

 

[troll buster]

Those of you who share one mug between 2 kids, your whole family, whatever the case...do you also go into your local sit-down restaurants and order one drink for 2 people or everyone to share? I highly doubt it...nor would they allow it. So why should Disney?

Rules are rules. It is what it is. If the mugs don't work for your family...buy bottles of soda/water/tea.

But the mugs do work for our family! They work great for sharing!

 

[BigAlsGal]

But the mugs do work for our family! They work great for sharing!

Which is why disney has changed the whole system.

 

[troll buster]

Which is why disney has changed the whole system.

I doubt it.

 

[MIGrandma]

I don't have a problem with the new mug system. DD and I were there for a week, we paid $17.99 each for the mugs and I know we got more than our money's worth for the week as we filled them with coffee a couple of times each morning, then soda/lemonade 2-4 times in the afternoon/evenings when we were at our resort. When a glass of soda/tea costs $2.39 in a restaurant, like I said...I'm sure we got our money's worth.

Yes, sometimes trying to get ice was a little s-l-o-w but we did have one ice dispenser that filled pretty fast so we tried to use that one most of the time.

And I never noticed that only one mug could be filled at a time...I'm sure I was filling mine at one end of a drink dispenser and someone else was filling theirs at the other end though. Or do you mean only one mug per family could be filled at one time?

As far as reservations at restaurants, I wish they would leave some of their tables open for walk-ups, maybe 20% of them. DD and I wanted to try Mama Melrose's, but "reservation only" was what we were told at the podium. Disappointing. I'm not one to make a reservation 6 months in advance. We have no idea what park we're going to be at on any given day and I don't want to waste time having to leave a park to go to another just because we have a dinner reservation. And I don't blame them for charging for no-shows, that will help put a stop to people making multiple reservations for the same day/time.

 

[fla4fun]

The ADR cancellation policy isn't a big deal unless you plan on simply no-showing. If you call to cancel with a LEGITIMATE reason (sick kid etc) they'll make concessions for you. They always have. Of course there is no way to stop people from cancelling and simply lying about why they are cancelling.

People will always find a way to game the system.

Hmmmm . . . .this got me thinking . . . . .

Maybe Disney has already considered people will be "gaming the system" and their whole issue isn't the $10 pp so much as it is getting people to call and cancel so they can maximize their walk in business. They may have calculated from the beginning that X number of people make a reservation, Y number of people will call and cancel by deadline, Z number of people will call between deadline and dining time (fee at restaurant's discretion), and Q people will not show at all and be willing to pay the fee as a result.

It's obvious that with a midnight cancellation policy, it's not really about staffing or purchasing inventory. If it was about that, you'd probably have to cancel a week out. I think they just want to fill every seat.

 

[MartDM]

I agree, it will not stop this. The only way to stop it, and they won't do it, is require a deposit of $10 that will be applied to your final bill or credited if you are on the Dining Plan. No one wants to shell out hundred of dollars before a trip on the chance they might use the reservation. They will book only what they fully intend to use.

Excellent point! I would happily give a $10 deposit per ADR to eliminate the hoarding problems, but I suspect I'd be in the minimum on that.

I think all the rationalizations given here by people regarding the mugs is a great illustration of why we are seeing all procedures tightened up more. I constantly read posts on this board that complain about a new process, yet several posters in the thread will make a case for why their abuse of the system should be overlooked because of their special circumstances (whether it be a sick family member not making an ADR, two family members sharing a refillable mug that is clearly meant for individual use, a special needs child or adult in the family, or anything else). When a majority feels entitled to break the rules to suit their own purposes and feel that it's justified because they shouldn't be inconvenienced in any way, the abuse becomes detrimental to WDW and they, of course, are going to put extra rules in place to try to stop it.

It's not just WDW, but society as a whole, that has fostered these generations with huge entitlement complexes while focus on good manners and simply doing what is right is no longer expected. Too many people have an "every man for themselves" mentality.

 

[FreeTime]

I think it is a good change to require the cc to hold the reservation.
I think it is a great change to have the chip in the refillable mug. It would frustrate me to no end to see old mugs being refilled or families using 1 or 2 mugs for all of them. Why should my family be following the rules and theirs not? If you don't budget for a mug for all, then don't buy one to share.

 

[luvthemouse71]

It may be annoying, but the rules are the rules. The rules were one mug per person and a new mug each stay (unless you had luck getting a lifetime use mug refilled). People didn't feel the need to follow this rule, so Disney cracked down.

I've been thinking about this for a few days and am trying to phrase this carefully, so no one gets offended. Boards like this one specialize in helping people get the most out of their Disney trips. Sometimes, it's with great planning tips, ideas about how to manage the park with disabilities, how big the hotel rooms are and where you can get good coffee. Sometimes that advice is how to "game" the system and get more for your money or something for free. For instance, Joe Smith realizes that Disney only changes refillable mug designs every four years. He buys a mug during his 2005 trip and proceeds to use it, without paying again, until 2009. In addition, Joe realizes that no one checks to see if Joe is the only one using the mug. Prior to "tip" boards, Joe and handful of other people, would figure out that they could buy one mug every four or five years and just keep using it with no additional cost. With only a few people doing this, the cost of changing the system isn't supported and Disney "deals" with the people who are gaming the system.

But, let's say Joe goes to a tip board and tells everyone that their mugs are still good and no one will check them. Now, thousands of people are privy to Joe's tip and now it's costing Disney money. A lot of money? I don't know. But, while Disney was willing to overlook losing an occasional mug fee when people reused mugs or shared, they won't continue to take the losses when thousands of people realize they can do this. It doesn't work. The same without double/triple booking dining or pool hopping. A few people working outside the system aren't a big deal, but when dozens or hundreds of extra reservations are made every day by people never intending to use them, it creates a problem for Disney. Not only are they losing money with unfilled seats, but they're turning guests away which causes them to lose revenue as well.

This is an excellent post. You can't break rules and then be upset when they crack down. If you don't like the new rules, don't go. Disney is a business, if people are cutting into profits by skirting the rules, they have every right to ensure that they make money.

I know the temptation is to think that Disney is all about fluffy kitties, pixie dust and hugs, but they are in this at the end of the day to turn a profit.

 

[3Gsandme]

Hmmmm . . . .this got me thinking . . . . . Maybe Disney has already considered people will be "gaming the system" and their whole issue isn't the $10 pp so much as it is getting people to call and cancel so they can maximize their walk in business. They may have calculated from the beginning that X number of people make a reservation, Y number of people will call and cancel by deadline, Z number of people will call between deadline and dining time (fee at restaurant's discretion), and Q people will not show at all and be willing to pay the fee as a result. It's obvious that with a midnight cancellation policy, it's not really about staffing or purchasing inventory. If it was about that, you'd probably have to cancel a week out. I think they just want to fill every seat.

If airlines can do this, you bet your sweet bippy Disney is. Disney seems to LOVE to collect data, so while I don't know that they double book, they absolutely know their no show factor.

When I was working, a lot of Libraries began to charge nominal fees for programs. It wasn't about the money, but paying even a dollar or two encouraged people to show up for events they'd signed up for. It's very frustrating tincture away patrons from "sold out" events, only to have a large no show factor. I'm sure this is similar. It isn't about Disney taking your $10/per person but knowing that most people are going to be more responsible about their reservation if they think they have money at stake.

I suspect, strongly, that if you call Disney with a sick child or exhausted aged parent, you won't be charged in most circumstances. But, like an airline or a library, Disney benefits from a full capacity.

 

[kanadar]

I have 0 problems with the cancellation policy or the mugs (although it is still not clear how they are dealing with lifetime mugs which we DO have and have been told before they are lifetime from CM's). With the cancellation policy, I don't see it as bad unless you are someone who books multiple places in the day and don't decide until 10 minutes before to cancel. Do you REALLY think those CM's have time to be checking every 5 minutes if someone has cancelled so they do in fact have a walk up table available? NO! Especially not at busy times when they are trying to get those WITH ADR's to their table. So cancelling the day before, the CM's can look at the ADR list and determine how many walk up tables will be available at given times. If they have 50 ADR's for betweek 6:30 and 6:45 and 5 of those cancelled 5 minutes before, do you think they would be able to quickly tell without causing you to wait for them to look at the computer system and figure it out (all this without you complaining about them not knowing ahead of time)? My family has never missed an ADR or cancelled before, we are in the minority here and I know that. But I agree with the person who said you can't acknowledge that you abused the system then complain when they change it to stop the abuse.

 

[glimmerman76]

so disney pours only coke right? So what do you think disney is paying per refill on that cup at cost? 16oz cup is probably costing them 4 cents at most with ice. It was not about the cost it was about making more money. at 17.95 you would have to drink a whole 5 gallon bag in the box for them to lose money.

 

[freshmanjs]

so disney pours only coke right? So what do you think disney is paying per refill on that cup at cost? 16oz cup is probably costing them 4 cents at most with ice. It was not about the cost it was about making more money. at 17.95 you would have to drink a whole 5 gallon bag in the box for them to lose money.

lost potential revenue is cost (opportunity cost). also, who cares what they paid for the drink? pricing is, in many cases, not based on the cost of input materials.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

so disney pours only coke right? So what do you think disney is paying per refill on that cup at cost? 16oz cup is probably costing them 4 cents at most with ice. It was not about the cost it was about making more money. at 17.95 you would have to drink a whole 5 gallon bag in the box for them to lose money.

And you don't whine when Mickey D's charges you $2 for the same amount of coke.

Why is it "disney should give me free coke" Why shouldn't every place be held to the same standard? (My University football team charges $7 for a big glass of coke.. by comparison Disney is cheap! LOL!)

 

[3Gsandme]

so disney pours only coke right? So what do you think disney is paying per refill on that cup at cost? 16oz cup is probably costing them 4 cents at most with ice. It was not about the cost it was about making more money. at 17.95 you would have to drink a whole 5 gallon bag in the box for them to lose money.

But that's not how costs are structured.

Maybe the Coke only costs .04/16 oz (I have no idea what the actual costs are), but the money from the mug program isn't just going to fund the purchase of the Coke. It goes to purchase the mugs (I agree, still cheap), the beverage stations, the people who clean and maintain the beverage stations, the ice machines, the people who clean and maintain the ice machines, waste, garbage removal and other costs including development and research into better functioning equipment and procedures. The cost of the mug isn't reflective of the price of the coke, it reflects everything Disney puts into delivering the coke to you. You're paying for the convenience of Disney storing, chilling and dispensing your coke and then cleaning up after you.

I also do believe that when people think things are "free" they tend to not be as conservative with what they take or what they use. How many people us their "free" refills and effectively dump nearly the entire mug? I'd bet a lot. Because it's "free" people don't care if they take more than they have any intention of using and waste is built into that cost structure too. If I'm paying for each refill OOP, I probably only care about drinking one glass of pop with my meal and won't get seconds even if I might like a couple of sips more. But, if I'm getting refill, I'm fine with a server bringing a new glass of whatever I'm drinking even if I only plan on having a sip or two from it.

 

[AmyB2006]

But the mugs do work for our family! They work great for sharing!

They're not meant to be shared.

Which is why disney has changed the whole system.

I doubt it.

Keep telling yourself that.

They figured out that families are trying to "skirt" the system by sharing the mugs. Along with a lot of other problems probably.

 

[williamscm3]

Excellent point! I would happily give a $10 deposit per ADR to eliminate the hoarding problems, but I suspect I'd be in the minimum on that.

I think all the rationalizations given here by people regarding the mugs is a great illustration of why we are seeing all procedures tightened up more. I constantly read posts on this board that complain about a new process, yet several posters in the thread will make a case for why their abuse of the system should be overlooked because of their special circumstances (whether it be a sick family member not making an ADR, two family members sharing a refillable mug that is clearly meant for individual use, a special needs child or adult in the family, or anything else). When a majority feels entitled to break the rules to suit their own purposes and feel that it's justified because they shouldn't be inconvenienced in any way, the abuse becomes detrimental to WDW and they, of course, are going to put extra rules in place to try to stop it.

It's not just WDW, but society as a whole, that has fostered these generations with huge entitlement complexes while focus on good manners and simply doing what is right is no longer expected. Too many people have an "every man for themselves" mentality.

You took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[DJFan88]

But that's not how costs are structured.


I also do believe that when people think things are "free" they tend to not be as conservative with what they take or what they use. How many people us their "free" refills and effectively dump nearly the entire mug? I'd bet a lot. Because it's "free" people don't care if they take more than they have any intention of using and waste is built into that cost structure too. If I'm paying for each refill OOP, I probably only care about drinking one glass of pop with my meal and won't get seconds even if I might like a couple of sips more. But, if I'm getting refill, I'm fine with a server bringing a new glass of whatever I'm drinking even if I only plan on having a sip or two from it.

This is true but will still happen with the RIFD.

1) I think the RIFD mugs are a great idea. Albeit, I haven't actually tried them yet. We always get the mugs and use them plenty. Plus, I think I read that now these are able to be used at any resort for the length of your stay. (We often try a QS at another resort if we want to check it out for a future trip or if there is food we want to try, and if we are using our car, I might remember to bring them).

2) I don't really care about the ADR thing, I've only ever made the resses I've wanted and then we just go eat there, but I can sympathize with others. My advice is to only make the one's you're sure of, and if you think there may be an issue the day before, cancel ahead of time, and come up with Plan B. Hopefully as others have said there will be more availability for places. If it's one you have your heart set on then try and make that ADR at a time you feel works best for you.

3) I do get a little nervous about this new fastpass thing. I've always liked to just be able to at least not have to plan rides, geesh. Maybe it won't be too bad, but if I had to plan everything..... Just doesn't feel like an amusement park should have to be like that.

Disney of the future..... Plan it all from home, strap on special shoes when you get there, and Disney magically transfers your every minute to what you should be doing.....

4) There are other parks, it's true. More so now than ever. Our family hasn't even scratched the surface with Universal and Sea World, since we only have so much time. So, I'm sure others will start to gravitate that way, esp. if they don't adopt all of the same procedures and continue to offer more and more.

 

[PatMcDuck]

Just to say we used our Art of A mugs, at both Pop and Beach Club 2 weeks ago. They are good at any resort, which is pretty good.

Especially good for walking over from Art of A to Pop, and Vice Versa. We got tired of eating at Art of A, it was a short lovely walk across the bridge for some variety.

 

[JoshuaShaw]

I'm not trying to be overly dramatic, but seriously I could cry. I know there are many people who are happy about the changes in cancellation policy and the refillable mugs etc. but these changes are really effecting me and my family and how I feel about Disney.

With the new cancellation policy: I agree that there probably are some who "abuse the system" so to speak and double book etc, but I believe most people don't do this and are honest and try to cancel ahead etc etc. My DD6 has special needs and we make our ADR's ONLY at restaurants that did not have a cancellation fee. If she is having a hard day I will log on to MDE and cancel and either eat in the room or book somewhere at our resort etc.

Why do people assume that people have such selfish or malicious motives? Just because a policy doesn't effect you personally, doesn't mean it is a good idea.

The Refillable Mugs: The latest podcast demonstrated some of the downsides to this system (i.e. only one person can use machine at a time, problems when using ice etc.). But bottom line I just feel financially squeezed. It would cost my family about $100.00 just in soda for a trip!!

These changes would bother me less if park passes were not so extraordinary (it cost us over $2000.00), food quality wasn't mediocre while prices were rising, and as DVC our free valet was revoked, and our pool hopping has been more restricted etc etc etc.

We've been coming regularly since 1999 and have spent thousands and thousand and thousands on hotels and food and tickets and shows and merchandise etc. Why is Disney trying to squeeze more from us and take the spontaneity out of our experience? I am totally bummed.

I can sympathize with your concerns about the new ADR policy and hope that Disney can accommodate people with special circumstances. That said, I don't feel the same way about your complaint with the refillable mugs. If it's too expensive, you have the option not to get it. There is no shortage of places that offer free ice water.