Carsland, Star Wars Land, Avatarland - What is Disney capable of doing?

[DanBoris]

Surely you don't believe that the entire 73% is due to the placement of Easter on the calendar, do you?

No, but a good portion of it could be. The 1st quarter income for Parks and Resorts was up only 4%.

 

[johnGorski]

I think there is incentive for Disney to make the investment in new lands. For starters, Universal is making huge capital investments in their parks.

You are wrong if you think HP didn't hurt Disney World. It did. And yes, they are having a better year this year because of New Fantasyland, but what happens when Diagon Alley opens next summer? Do you really think vacationers are going to go to Disney with 1 new coaster or Universal with a whole new land and expanded Simpson land? It is going to take another major land expansion or two to get people back to Disney, so I do think the 2015/2016 time frame is realistic.

Also, Disney is now looking for the almighty land where guests will spend added $ for experiences and merchandise. The profit/guest that enters the WWHP is much higher than what Disney is seeing. I believe Disney is looking for a land that will give them that kind of payback.

Is Star Wars, Avatar, or Cars it? I don't know, and I think Disney doesn't either, but they are willing to give it a try and find out.

Further, AK has the lowest admissions of the Disney World parks and in need of an additional land or something to get get those turnstiles moving.

It will be interesting to see. I hope we hear something official soon. D23 Expo, maybe???

If I were going to pick one that I think is the furthest off or the least likely of the 3, it would be Star Wars. And not because I dislike Star Wars. I would love to see a land. But big decisions take time to make, and they only purchased the franchise this year. They might want to see how fans react to the first Disney Star Wars film before they move forward with a concrete investment.

We shall see.

Good perspective with what universal is doing, if universal would annouce another project such as the rumoured Lord of the rings Disney would have to respond in a big way. My thoughts still are sticking with star wars land at DHS and Marvel land at DCA opening in 2020

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

The very history of Disney should alleviate any concerns about them not expanding, and building new attractions. Can you honestly think of any time where they have not been building something new? Disney will continue to push DVC, yes, but that's completely separate from new attractions.

~Yes, after Expedition Everest -- just before Fantasyland or should I say Harry Potter, lol.

Not sure where the 73% numbers comes from. Based on the TEA numbers (since Disney doesn't release individual park or resort numbers), WDW attendance is up 3% between 2008 and 2012. By contract Universal Orlando is up 23% over the same period.

~Yes, a 23% increase in attendance demonstrates substantial growth. But, in contrast you would almost have to triple this to match MK's numbers. Also, DCA saw a 23% increase as well, and I didn't think the "Cars" IP could compete on the same level as Harry Potter. This just goes on to prove that when it's all said and done, people just want good attractions.

I think there is incentive for Disney to make the investment in new lands. For starters, Universal is making huge capital investments in their parks.

You are wrong if you think HP didn't hurt Disney World. It did. And yes, they are having a better year this year because of New Fantasyland, but what happens when Diagon Alley opens next summer? Do you really think vacationers are going to go to Disney with 1 new coaster or Universal with a whole new land and expanded Simpson land? It is going to take another major land expansion or two to get people back to Disney, so I do think the 2015/2016 time frame is realistic.

Also, Disney is now looking for the almighty land where guests will spend added $ for experiences and merchandise. The profit/guest that enters the WWHP is much higher than what Disney is seeing. I believe Disney is looking for a land that will give them that kind of payback.

Is Star Wars, Avatar, or Cars it? I don't know, and I think Disney doesn't either, but they are willing to give it a try and find out.

Further, AK has the lowest admissions of the Disney World parks and in need of an additional land or something to get get those turnstiles moving.

It will be interesting to see. I hope we hear something official soon. D23 Expo, maybe???

If I were going to pick one that I think is the furthest off or the least likely of the 3, it would be Star Wars. And not because I dislike Star Wars. I would love to see a land. But big decisions take time to make, and they only purchased the franchise this year. They might want to see how fans react to the first Disney Star Wars film before they move forward with a concrete investment.

We shall see.

~Hi kaykool, great post. I might need to revisit this post because I think we agree on some points, but I just don't have the time right now. Anyway, I acknowledge what Universal is doing, and it blows me away, while Disney rests on its laurels with their promotion(s) of dining plans, free food and DVC. How long can it last???

~Also, you are incorrect about AK having the lowest attendance, Hollywood Studios has endured a decline in attendance for a few years now. With that said, I am still not convinced that Disney has to "answer" when they've had record breaking profits and attendance.

~How was Disney "hurt" by Universal? I hope Disney feels the impact from Universal's growth but the numbers don't seem to reflect that. Of course, this info predates Harry Potter 2, I'm hoping it's a another huge success for Universal and maybe that will light a fire under Disney. We'll see.

 

[Godot]

~How was Disney "hurt" by Universal? I hope Disney feels the impact from Universal's growth but the numbers don't seem to reflect that. Of course, this info predates Harry Potter 2, I'm hoping it's a another huge success for Universal and maybe that will light a fire under Disney. We'll see.

Well, technically Universal owns all the rights to Marvel attractions within some sort of radius of their parks, so in that way you can say Disney is hurt by Universal. Wouldn't stop Disneyland from making any Marvel attractions, though!

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Well, technically Universal owns all the rights to Marvel attractions within some sort of radius of their parks, so in that way you can say Disney is hurt by Universal. Wouldn't stop Disneyland from making any Marvel attractions, though!

~Hi Godot! Nice angle, you're a thinker! This is close but not quite -- Disney entered into this agreement with full disclosure and understanding of the limitation(s) involved pertaining to use of the Marvel IP and still moved forward in spite of it. So, I have to assume that the pros far outweigh the cons. The Avengers, Iron Man, Thor and Captain America have all been successful for Disney, not to mention the merchandising associated with the Marvel brand.

~Also, I am not convinced that if Disney had acquired the entire IP free and clear of all stipulations, that they would be looking to invest in the parks. Like I've said before, I don't see much incentive for Disney to invest in WDW parks.

~Harry Potter Starts to Wear Off~

The spell that Harry Potter cast on Universal Orlando has begun to wear off after two years of spectacular growth in attendance.

The stratospheric jumps in attendance triggered in 2010 and 2011 by the Wizarding World of Harry Potter in Universal's Islands of Adventure theme park eased last year, according to a closely watched industry report on annual park attendance worldwide.

Attendance at Islands of Adventure which added the $265 million Wizarding World in 2010 grew 4 percent in 2012 to nearly 8 million visitors, compared with gains of 30.2 percent in 2010 and 29 percent in 2011.

Last year's growth, while much reduced, was still enough to make Islands the fastest-growing major theme park in Central Florida.

And Universal Orlando has already announced its follow-up act: Next year, the company intends to open a London-themed expansion of Wizarding World, called Diagon Alley, in its Universal Studios theme park next door to Islands.

The growth leader last year among North American theme parks, according to the industry study, was Disneyland's California Adventure, where attendance jumped an estimated 22.6 percent to 7.8 million people.

The Walt Disney Co. recently spent $1.2 billion on renovations there, including the addition of a 12-acre "land" based on the company's "Cars" movie franchise.

Disney's Magic Kingdom remains the most-popular theme park in the world, with an estimated 17.5 million visitors in 2012, up 2.3 percent from a year earlier. Disney's three other Orlando parks each boosted attendance by 2.2 percent, for the following totals: Epcot, 11.1 million people; Disney's Animal Kingdom, 10 million; and Disney's Hollywood Studios, 9.9 million.

The attendance estimates are compiled each year by the Themed Entertainment Association, an industry trade group, and the economics practice of AECOM Technology Corp., a Los Angeles-based conglomerate. Although the estimates are unofficial none of the major theme-park operators publicly discloses annual attendance figures they are widely referenced throughout the business.

The report's authors attributed the North American attendance gains to new spending by theme-park companies.

"It is our view that, given the economic conditions, theme parks have done a good job this year in maintaining single-digit [percentage] growth in major markets," the report concluded. "The market in North America was, this year as last year, driven by major reinvestment at major operators' parks.

"Last year, Orlando led the way with the Wizarding World of Harry Potter at Universal Studios Florida. This year, it was Southern California, with substantial increases at Disney California Adventure (where additions included Cars Land) as well as Universal Studios Hollywood (which added Transformers: the ride 3-D)."

Universal, Disney and SeaWorld Orlando would not comment on the attendance report.

Orlando's other theme parks also had improved attendance last year compared with 2011, according to the report: Universal Studios attendance grew 2.5 percent, to 6.2 million guests; and SeaWorld Orlando attracted an estimated 5.4 million people, up 3 percent.

The only theme park among the top 10 in North America with an estimated decline in attendance: Disneyland, in Anaheim, Calif., where attendance fell 1.1 percent to a little fewer than 16 million people.

Some of Orlando's major theme parks have raised their prices in recent weeks. Universal Orlando increased the cost of its single-day ticket to $92, while Walt Disney World increased the cost of a single day in the Magic Kingdom park to $95 and in its other parks to $90.

~I believe this is *exactly* what Disney was hoping for, but Harry Potter 2, Despicable Me, Simpsons land, Transformers, Jurassic Park Expansion (go Universal!), and new Deluxe Pop Century style resort is making it incredibly difficult for Disney to ignore. So, here's hoping for the best!!!

 

[EpicKevin]

If I were Disney (hehe) I'd be looking at doing Star Wars Land first. If not simultaneously with Avatar Land.

As we know, Avatar was a massive film and there are two more planned.

But Star Wars is almost certainly the biggest movie franchise in history!! Think of how much WWoHP did for IoA... now imagine how many more Star Wars nuts there are compared to Potter Heads!!

That's my opinion. (Sorry if someone else said it - I only read the original post).

 

[scrappinannie]

I think what Cars Land and Star Wars would do is open up WDW more to the Boys age 6 to 16 demographic (and their dads). Which is an area Disney seems to be missing on. I could totally see, if a Cars land and Star Wars Land come to HS, me taking DS to HS while DW and DD hit MK for an extra day.

I would love to see maybe at least a ride or attraction or 2 from some of the more masculine Disney themes, or at least something more gender neutral. I have a 3 1/2 yr old ds who will be almost 4 when we go this October & we're still pretty heavy on the princess stuff (have a 6 year old DD, as well). I think Star Wars, Cars (not really represented at all in Florida), Spiderman, Monsters Inc, or even Toy Story could all provide some really awesome ideas for rides. A Monsters Coaster could be pretty cool, as would some sort of themed character meal featuring heroes and villians. You can build an attraction or 2 and not build a whole land and certainly there's room for that at DHS.

 

[sbhammonds]

I would much rather see a Carsland than StarWars...

 

[brertoad]

I would much rather see a Carsland than StarWars...

If Disney has to choose from making Cars Land OR Star Wars Land in Florida, I believe their best best is to go with Star Wars. They have Cars Land in California.

By building a Star Wars addition at WDW, they would be able to attract audiences to both theme parks with something unique in each.

We have seen in many ways that they do want to have unique experiences at DL and WDW, while much overlaps, it would be good to change it up a bit.
Just one example, they do the Nightmare Before Christmas makeover at the Haunted Mansion at DL, they don't do it at WDW. So, if any of us Floridians want to ever see that, we have to go to DL during the right season.

I do think Disney has to do something to complete with Universal (Harry Potter Expansion).

 

[Rumors Rocks]

If Disney has to choose from making Cars Land OR Star Wars Land in Florida, I believe their best best is to go with Star Wars. They have Cars Land in California.

By building a Star Wars addition at WDW, they would be able to attract audiences to both theme parks with something unique in each.

We have seen in many ways that they do want to have unique experiences at DL and WDW, while much overlaps, it would be good to change it up a bit.
Just one example, they do the Nightmare Before Christmas makeover at the Haunted Mansion at DL, they don't do it at WDW. So, if any of us Floridians want to ever see that, we have to go to DL during the right season.

I do think Disney has to do something to complete with Universal (Harry Potter Expansion).

http://news.moviefone.com/2013/11/09/disney-star-wars-expansion-in-theme-parks/

Posted November 9th, 2013 3:00PMby Drew Taylor

Disney Chairman and CEO Bob Iger has been cagey about what, exactly, the theme parks' plans are for the recently acquired "Star Wars" properties. Even at this summer's D23, in the Imagineering pavilion, things were only hinted at without ever being specifically addressed. Rumors persist, however, that both Disneyland in California and Disney's Hollywood Studios in Florida will get major "Star Wars"-themed overhauls, with the Orlando plan going into effect long before the "Avatar"-themed land opens at Disney's Animal Kingdom.

In an interview with Bloomberg Media, Iger at the very least confirms that expansion plans are underway. The use of the word "expansion" is telling, because that implies that the rumors of a "Star Wars" overlay for Disneyland's ailing Tomorrowland section of the park are indeed true, as are the plans to devote a large section of Disney's Hollywood Studios to all things "Star Wars." (If the latter is true, it would handily trump Universal Orlando's Harry Potter stuff.)

"The only thing I can share, which actually I don't think we've talked about much, is there is a fair amount of development going on at Disney Imagineering right now to expand the 'Star Wars' presence in California and in Orlando and eventually in other parks around the world," Iger explained, in his patented political way. He then said that the "Star Wars" theme park plans won't be confined to the continental United States. "We do have 'Star Wars' in other theme parks... I think it's likely that Star Wars will be in more than just our two domestic parks."

So, yes, "Star Wars" will have a much bigger presence in both theme parks, probably bigger in the Orlando park because they have the space (basically the current plans are to have this section wrap around the left side of the park, staring at the giant Sorcerer Mickey's hat and encompassing the area between the '50s Prime Time Café and where Star Tours is now). They also need to woo people away from Harry Potter at Universal. But the "Star Wars" overlay of Tomorrowland will be just as ambitious and ballsy, a way to keep the theme of tomorrow alive by visiting a galaxy long ago and far, far away.

While Iger reiterates that the "Star Wars: Episode VII" shift from the summer of 2015 to Christmas 2015 was to accommodate the changing writers' line-up and give the creative team more time to make the best possible movie, it's not hard to wonder how many attractions and rides could be developed and implemented with that additional time...

 

[DWJoshua]

The very history of Disney should alleviate any concerns about them not expanding, and building new attractions. Can you honestly think of any time where they have not been building something new? Disney will continue to push DVC, yes, but that's completely separate from new attractions.

Sorry I'm jumping in a little late on this conversation, but I had to respond to this comment. Recent history is not very reassuring in this area....with four theme parks in Orlando, opening one truly new attraction every few years is not enough. 7DMT and the Little Mermaid ride are the only new attractions they have opened since TSMM opened in '08. That's a LONG time between attractions.

Looking forward, once 7DMT opens, we're looking at 3-4 years before anything else opens.

With Universal dumping boatloads of money into their parks, I just don't see how Disney can be so complacent.

 

[tjkraz]

...with four theme parks in Orlando, opening one truly new attraction every few years is not enough. 7DMT and the Little Mermaid ride are the only new attractions they have opened since TSMM opened in '08. That's a LONG time between attractions.

I think most WDW fans would agree with that the entire Fantasyland project was a bit...misguided...in its conception. They spent $700M (or whatever the figure ended up being) for what amounts to 3 new attractions: Mine train, Mermaid and Belle story time. It's high on flash and low on substance. Once that project somehow squeaked through Imagineering, the die was cast for several years to come. Disney was never going to break the bank and pour even more dollars into the parks despite an ill-conceived Fantasyland.

That said, the last few years have brought a few new experiences. Star Tours and Test Track received major modifications--so much so that they are practically new experiences. The interactive games at Magic Kingdom, Epcot and Animal Kingdom debuted. There have been some other modest additions like Sum of All Thrills, American Idol and the Jack Sparrow experience at DHS.

At this point, I believe the next 5 years will bring more to the parks than the last 5 did, but those attractions aren't going to materialize overnight.

Looking forward, once 7DMT opens, we're looking at 3-4 years before anything else opens.

Maybe...maybe not. Really depends on how quickly they move on Star Wars at DHS. Some of the rumored plans have involved repurposing / retheming the Backlot Express restaurant and Sounds Dangerous. But those would be modest additions while something more expansive is still in the works.

We probably are 3-4 years away from anything worthy of "E" ticket status.

With Universal dumping boatloads of money into their parks, I just don't see how Disney can be so complacent.

Here's the rub...it doesn't appear that anything Universal has done has hurt Disney. Last week Disney reported its financials for the 2013 fiscal year (ended 9/30) and they reported all-time record attendance at WDW.

We look at the money Universal has spent and their attendance increases and the knee-jerk reaction is to think that Disney is hurting. But they really aren't.

You'll hear many WDW fans say "I visited Universal for the first time ever, so Disney lost some of my money due to their lack of investment." But there are also people coming to Central Florida specifically to visit WWoHP who will also spend a couple days at WDW since they are in town.

Investment is always risk/reward for Disney. If they spend $250 million to build new attractions, and annual attendance only goes up 250-500k, it's gonna take a long time to recoup the investment. (Don't forget that after construction there are still significant operating costs associated with every attraction.)

For the moment, Disney attendance is purring right along without the heavy investment on new attractions.

 

[DWJoshua]

@tjkraz - I totally agree with most of what you say above. I know that there are rumblings about some big announcements coming soon (e.g. the title of this thread). My question is whether Disney can take those announcements and turn them into reality in a reasonable amount of time. NFL is taking forever to complete and other than the mine coaster, I'd say it's pretty mediocre. The theming and atmosphere they have created is some of the best in any of the parks, but the substance is severely lacking.

I'm actually not a huge fan of only expanding with E-tickets, which many on these boards seem to be looking for. I just think that Disney has some catching up to do with investment in DHS, Epcot, and DAK. All three parks need work and not just through adding an e-ticket or two.

And finally, I think there's a big difference in the type of expansion and investment that Disney does in comparison to what we're currently seeing at Universal. Disney tends to invest for long-term gains. I doubt that there is much Universal could do to truly hurt Disney's numbers in the short term. Long term, however, they could do damage if Disney becomes complacent in its past success and reputation.

Just my thoughts!

 

[StarWarsJez]

Sorry I'm jumping in a little late on this conversation, but I had to respond to this comment. Recent history is not very reassuring in this area....with four theme parks in Orlando, opening one truly new attraction every few years is not enough. 7DMT and the Little Mermaid ride are the only new attractions they have opened since TSMM opened in '08. That's a LONG time between attractions.

Looking forward, once 7DMT opens, we're looking at 3-4 years before anything else opens.

With Universal dumping boatloads of money into their parks, I just don't see how Disney can be so complacent.

I agree with you completely. Disney is more focused on the China market since that's where they're seeing the real growth opportunities.

As far as the US is concerned they'll continue to tinker with WDW, concentrating more on maximising revenue from what they already have (e.g. Magicband), rather than investing in premium new rides/themes.

I'm sure New Fantasyland was seen by most repeat visitors as a huge disappointment, completely underdelivering on the marketing promise. The opposite is the case with Universal which continues to expand with excellent new theming and rides and will further demonstrate this with HP phase 2.

Sure Disney will introduce new theming but it will be at a snails pace, say starting off with some Avatar or Star Wars themed rest rooms, restaurants, gift shops and a couple of walk through 'attractions'. Given their recent performance It'll be 2020 before we see anything particularely different.

Yes I hope Universal gives Disney a bloody nose, but unfortunatey Disney has already demonstrated that it CAN do very little, yet still get solid attendance figures.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

7DMT and the Little Mermaid ride are the only new attractions they have opened since TSMM opened in '08. That's a LONG time between attractions.

Looking forward, once 7DMT opens, we're looking at 3-4 years before anything else opens.

With Universal dumping boatloads of money into their parks, I just don't see how Disney can be so complacent.

First... I agree
With you...

Second...as far as how they can be so complacent?
Because we continue to line there pockets...

Attendance is flat and profits are expanding at an almost Enron type rate...
They are also getting to the point where they can almost reduce staff and operating hours and still probably increase profits...

They increase all prices by 5-15% each year without exception, apology, or explanation.

And nobody stays away.

That's why I say the place is starting to suck for those of us that are longtime/ repeat offenders or bother to read the history and do the math...

But Iger will have enough stock equity to buy willow a new pair of shoes every second till 2055...no doubt.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think most WDW fans would agree with that the entire Fantasyland project was a bit...misguided...in its conception. They spent $700M (or whatever the figure ended up being) for what amounts to 3 new attractions.

The sentinel had two really scary numbers buried in one of their "unpublicized" articles a week or two ago...it was either the profit disclosure or the magic band rollout follow up

The often try to slip the facts by to "not upset dad"

Fantasyland was $425 million...

Art of animation was $350 (site prep and alot of groundwork done in 2002)


That is scary... That much for rooms and that little for parks.

My bad...it was Orlando business journal...not the sentinel

 

[johnGorski]

First... I agree
With you...

Second...as far as how they can be so complacent?
Because we continue to line there pockets...

Attendance is flat and profits are expanding at an almost Enron type rate...
They are also getting to the point where they can almost reduce staff and operating hours and still probably increase profits...

They increase all prices by 5-15% each year without exception, apology, or explanation.

And nobody stays away.

That's why I say the place is starting to suck for those of us that are longtime/ repeat offenders or bother to read the history and do the math...

But Iger will have enough stock equity to buy willow a new pair of shoes every second till 2055...no doubt.

Very good point! Soon as folks stop going dumping records amount of cash into Disney, them more aggressive expansion. Look how slow FLE and avatar is from announcement to opening. I was actually thinking Avatar would be tossed out all together.

 

[DPCummerbund]

First... I agree
With you...

Second...as far as how they can be so complacent?
Because we continue to line there pockets...

Attendance is flat and profits are expanding at an almost Enron type rate...
They are also getting to the point where they can almost reduce staff and operating hours and still probably increase profits...

They increase all prices by 5-15% each year without exception, apology, or explanation.

And nobody stays away.

That's why I say the place is starting to suck for those of us that are longtime/ repeat offenders or bother to read the history and do the math...

I really don't think of it as "lining their pockets" as much as "people deciding to go on vacation somewhere they enjoy". As long as people continue to find WDW to be fun, it really doesn't matter whether Disney expands or not. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Personally, I'm looking forward to any expansions - especially Star Wars or Marvel (at DL/DCA). However, my favorite rides are generally all the old ones. I don't think I'm alone - MK has almost twice the attendance of the other parks, and its rides (or their technologies) are generally the oldest at WDW.

I think this is partly because the older rides (at least in my opinion) rely more on immersion, audioanimatronics, and theming, and less on "flash" and special effects.

I've heard that J.J. Abrams is making the new Star Wars movies along similar lines. One of the biggest complaints he has heard about the prequel trilogy is that it relied to heavily on digital effects, and didn't have the authentic, hand-made feel of the original. I hope Disney keeps that in mind when designing any Star Wars attractions. Sometimes, the old stuff just works.

 

[Nakkira]

I think Star Wars land seems to be more for sure than a Carsland would be. Avatar I think will be amazing once it gets done but the question is when will it get done. Disney makes a ton of money through parks, movies, books, etc. and after the purchase of Lucas films they need to make these expansions in order to make more money. So you need to spend money in order to make money and disney is definitely not in need of huge amounts of money. Disney can do all of these things and more. Also don't forget they are also building disney springs which will cost a ton as well but help make more money in the future because its all shopping and restaurants so its going to be a goldmine for disney.

disney lover at heart

I can honestly say I would be first in line for Star Wars Land

 

[TI Park]

Is there any truth with the Lord of the Rings rumor? because LOTR is awesome but doesn't seem like a fit at any of the parks except for HS which could be getting an expansion with cars or star wars.