The DIS: no negative posts please

[doconeill]

Actually - it's even funnier when you think that you can stay in a room on DVC points for about $200 a night rather than pay the $400 a night the general public pays.

Some of the savings on that does come out on getting "DVC room servicing" vs. "Hotel room servicing" - not that I can see that accounting for half the cost. But the rules of supply/demand also apply here. Points are renting for $10-14/point as that's what the demand will pay for the points being offered (the higher end is generally through brokers who provide guarantees vs. private transactions).

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Actually - it's even funnier when you think that you can stay in a room on DVC points for about $200 a night rather than pay the $400 a night the general public pays.



No correct when you add in you have the buy into the DVC, which is expensive and pay yearly dues.

AKK

 

[doconeill]

No correct when you add in you have the buy into the DVC, which is expensive and pay yearly dues.

AKK

You can rent points from a DVC member/through a broker.

 

[skier_pete]

No correct when you add in you have the buy into the DVC, which is expensive and pay yearly dues.

AKK

I was talking about renting points. We rented points and stayed at AKL back in 2010 and it cost us on average $179 a night.

Doconeill is right, the room service isn't the same certainly (you only get your room cleaned every 4th day) but overall for the price difference - the same room would've run us $300 a night for the same time period - I think I can handle less maid service.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I was talking about renting points. We rented points and stayed at AKL back in 2010 and it cost us on average $179 a night.

My error!. sorry, but my point stands, in that whether after the fact you can rent points at a big discount, the DVC owner still payed the costs upfront!


AKK

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Tonka, I see I am not one of your favorites. Sorry.

Peter I have no problem with your opinions or feelings about Disney, good or bad........Honestly!

It fact you would be surprised that I agree with you sometimes!

What I find upsetting is the idea that so folks dismiss and mock the opinions/ideas of people in favor of some Disney issues as apologists and therefore their opinions are bias, unfair and dismissed!

I have no problem standing my ground!

AKK

No biggie here. I was simply stating that your opinions on this thread would leave one (me) to believe I am not your favorite poster. It wasn't really a serious comment either, btw.

Regarding the mocking and dismissal I admit I am totally guilty but it is out of frustration. When people, not you, argue without offering any form of material it just become "huh uh, ya ha, huh uh, ya ha" ... Eeekk! That is not your posting style but it seems you may be choosing to defend those posters in the name of courtesy and decorum. You get points for that.

Any way, it's just a Disney forum so it's all done in the spiritof fun even if it sometimes goes to far,, right?

 

[Lewisc]

Actually - it's even funnier when you think that you can stay in a room on DVC points for about $200 a night rather than pay the $400 a night the general public pays.

Booking DVC through Disney vs renting points gives you completely different houskeeping experience, a completely different reservation policy, a completely different payment policy and a completely different cancellation policy.

Check ebay. You can get similar savings renting timeshare through owners (ebay) vs booking on the managing companies website for many other places.

I can't really tell you if the Grand Floridian is as nice as the Plaza or a comparable 5-star hotel. I can't afford 5-star hotels ANYWHERE.

The GF is not rated as a 5* hotel. Disney is about theming and pretend. The AKL is themed to resemble an African Safari resort. The GF is themed to resemble a 5* hotel. Disney found they could charge close to 5* prices without having to spend the money to offer a 5* experience.

 

[Stinkerbell1973]

It's become extremely disheartening to see what's going on here anymore. I don't feel like anyone can have an opinion without being attacked. It's ok to disagree, but the level of personal attacks and/or intolerance for someone else's opinion has reached critical mass. This is just my opinion...I'm an HR professional so trust me, I have no issues with conflict, but there's a way to express yourself or challenge someone and do it respectfully. I have to mitigate these scenarios on a daily basis.
I don't think Disney is perfect. No one person, corporation or business is. I'm not taking sides or making apologies for anything or anyone. However, I'd simply like to be able to express my opinion on any given topic without being called names, being told my OPINION is wrong or someone implying that I mean one thing when I clearly do not. Guess there is so much that can be inferred by written communication.
That's why I steer clear of the topics on issues/problems and only post on the cheery, light ones on this board. Anywhere else, it's fair game!
Just my humble opinion.

 

[DCTooTall]

It's become extremely disheartening to see what's going on here anymore. I don't feel like anyone can have an opinion without being attacked. It's ok to disagree, but the level of personal attacks and/or intolerance for someone else's opinion has reached critical mass. This is just my opinion...I'm an HR professional so trust me, I have no issues with conflict, but there's a way to express yourself or challenge someone and do it respectfully. I have to mitigate these scenarios on a daily basis.
I don't think Disney is perfect. No one person, corporation or business is. I'm not taking sides or making apologies for anything or anyone. However, I'd simply like to be able to express my opinion on any given topic without being called names, being told my OPINION is wrong or someone implying that I mean one thing when I clearly do not. Guess there is so much that can be inferred by written communication.
That's why I steer clear of the topics on issues/problems and only post on the cheery, light ones on this board. Anywhere else, it's fair game!
Just my humble opinion.

I'm thinking that Critical Mass issue you mention is not something that's unique to this board. True, since we deal with rumors and news we are dealing with a lost more fuzzy ideas, interpretations, and opinions, instead of hard, concrete, and plainly obvious facts... But I'm thinking the general ability to have a thoughtful intelligent debate, or even to agree to disagree, is something that has slowly been on the decline in society in general, with the anonymity of an internet forum (as well as the lack of voice inflection, body language, and other non-verbal clues of intention or meaning) just makes it much more obvious and prevalent in a forum such as this.


That being said.... I also can't deny that there have been more people around lately than what I remember even a year ago, Who will pick a side of an issue and defend it to the death, even if their argument falls completely apart and they resort to attacks on the person presenting the idea instead of attacks on the idea itself. There's also been, for some of us "old timers", a lot of hashed topics what honestly we may have gotten tired of responding too...... and I wouldn't put it past any of us to sometimes come across badly when responding to that topic for the 100th time. (It's QUITE easy to come across in a medium such as this as being dismissive of the person presenting an idea, instead of just being dismissive of the idea itself because it's old news for some of us. Even as one of the "nice guys" who try to always be helpful or provide facts or just a sound logic behind my opinion, I'd be surprised if I didn't inadvertently hurt someone's feelings once or twice because of a misunderstand of my meaning or my simply being tired of repeating myself in yet another thread.)

 

[Stinkerbell1973]

I'm thinking that Critical Mass issue you mention is not something that's unique to this board. True, since we deal with rumors and news we are dealing with a lost more fuzzy ideas, interpretations, and opinions, instead of hard, concrete, and plainly obvious facts... But I'm thinking the general ability to have a thoughtful intelligent debate, or even to agree to disagree, is something that has slowly been on the decline in society in general, with the anonymity of an internet forum (as well as the lack of voice inflection, body language, and other non-verbal clues of intention or meaning) just makes it much more obvious and prevalent in a forum such as this.


That being said.... I also can't deny that there have been more people around lately than what I remember even a year ago, Who will pick a side of an issue and defend it to the death, even if their argument falls completely apart and they resort to attacks on the person presenting the idea instead of attacks on the idea itself. There's also been, for some of us "old timers", a lot of hashed topics what honestly we may have gotten tired of responding too...... and I wouldn't put it past any of us to sometimes come across badly when responding to that topic for the 100th time. (It's QUITE easy to come across in a medium such as this as being dismissive of the person presenting an idea, instead of just being dismissive of the idea itself because it's old news for some of us. Even as one of the "nice guys" who try to always be helpful or provide facts or just a sound logic behind my opinion, I'd be surprised if I didn't inadvertently hurt someone's feelings once or twice because of a misunderstand of my meaning or my simply being tired of repeating myself in yet another thread.)

I like how you said that - all of it! I think to some degree, technology has made us a little desensitized and a little less compassionate. It's so easy to just type a quick response - and what I intend as a quick response leaves someone else perceiving me as short, snippy, etc.
As I also said, it's hard to tell someone's true intentions or thoughts in a typed statement.
But - I contend that anyone taking the opportunity to call someone ignorant, stupid, senseless, or anything else just because they have expressed their opinion is not the purpose that these boards are intended to serve. At least I hope that's not the purpose.
I joined back in 2008. I lurk more than I post. I just hit my 500th post today. Mostly due to time constraints, but also due to some of the stuff I see on here.
And yes, there are SOOOO many topics that get rehashed, questions that are asked repetitively, and topics that get beat to death.
I come here to learn things, possibly help others learn things, and to get a "release" from the reality of my day job, not to fight with others or to have anyone fight with me (I get that enough for 10+ hours a day, every day). That's why I leave those topics alone.

 

[beer dave]

QUOTE=Tonka's Skipper;48469231]

I was talking about renting points. We rented points and stayed at AKL back in 2010 and it cost us on average $179 a night.

My error!. sorry, but my point stands, in that whether after the fact you can rent points at a big discount, the DVC owner still payed the costs upfront!


AKK

hey T! Not to turn this into a DVC discussion, but I have calculated my overall cost of DVC to the best of my abilities, including purchase price from Disney and maintenance, and it comes to about $ 8 a point over lifetime.

 

[skier_pete]

QUOTE=Tonka's Skipper;48469231]

hey T! Not to turn this into a DVC discussion, but I have calculated my overall cost of DVC to the best of my abilities, including purchase price from Disney and maintenance, and it comes to about $ 8 a point over lifetime.

I did a calculation awhile back - and asssuming reasonable levels of inflation I figured that it would take 21 years to "break even" on a comparison of buying DVC versus renting points. Now, that doesn't take into account the ability of a DVC member to pre-book at 11 months at his home resort, nor the discounts a DVC member gets. But I still couldn't see justifying buying DVC, as we are perfectly happy at moderates and getting free dining most trips weighs the equation heavily in favor of not buying. However, to each his own, I can't say it is a "bad deal" certainly, but not for me. Maybe in 20 years I will regret that.

 

[beer dave]

I did a calculation awhile back - and asssuming reasonable levels of inflation I figured that it would take 21 years to "break even" on a comparison of buying DVC versus renting points. Now, that doesn't take into account the ability of a DVC member to pre-book at 11 months at his home resort, nor the discounts a DVC member gets. But I still couldn't see justifying buying DVC, as we are perfectly happy at moderates and getting free dining most trips weighs the equation heavily in favor of not buying. However, to each his own, I can't say it is a "bad deal" certainly, but not for me. Maybe in 20 years I will regret that.

This sounds about right-- I bought the first contracts with 30 years left on them-- BC and BW, and if my cost is 8 and yours averages to 12, I pay 2/3 of what you pay, and at 20 years they even out. My last 10 years are free! I hope I am still happy about that in another 12 years.

 

[Tramp68]

But if you consider renting excess points at $4pp you can bring that time to break even down even further. Buying double your needed points means you can bring your actual cost down to half.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This sounds about right-- I bought the first contracts with 30 years left on them-- BC and BW, and if my cost is 8 and yours averages to 12, I pay 2/3 of what you pay, and at 20 years they even out. My last 10 years are free! I hope I am still happy about that in another 12 years.

With all due respect to you two...I don't know why you bother doing that particular mathematical comparison.

The comparison to be made, and the only one that's realistic, is the comparison of what the DVC nights are costing you against the equivalent rack rates...and that yields huge, disgusting savings very quickly in the contract and will likely only increase:

Renting DVC points is a nice tool... But it's not a set in stone arrangement that is always necessarily going to be there...and if the "rental" market rises significantly - which it very well could at some point - then the comparison is blown.

And the argument is "well what about the dues...they are a fortune?"
My argument there is that dues really are just a drop in the bucket. In my case it works out to be a little less than a thousand for what gives us 3 weeks in WDW. That combined with the upfront purchase price (which admittedly is not such a great deal anymore as they have in unrealistically jacked up the point costs) makes it a hugely lucrative buy.

I had worked it out that the first
Night we stayed on DVC (a studio at beach club) was somewhere around $175 for the night....rack rate at beach was $309 at the time.

Now there is a lot of doom and gloom about dues going up...and they will. But lucky there is more than likely a cap on the market with that. At least a "soft, unofficial" cap. DVC has to have a relatively low maintenance cost for the initial sales upfront or the monster will turn on them and bite. If they try to sell $30 a point in dues...it will gut their membership and kill their sales.
"Minimum purchase is 200 points at $42,500 plus $7,000 in annual dues for 50 years at the Villas at Disney's All Star Music"

Nobody likes Disney that much

I see what you're saying...but I wouldn't base it on the DVC rental market. Remember: we are all ultimately renters from Disney and if they sense a distinct pattern of circumventing the purchase of new contracts by frequent, consistent renting...they'll blow it up in a Wall Street minute.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

And the argument is "well what about the dues...they are a fortune?"
My argument there is that dues really are just a drop in the bucket. In my case it works out to be a little less than a thousand for what gives us 3 weeks in WDW.


This is about my figures as well.


AKK

 

[beer dave]

With all due respect to you two...I don't know why you bother doing that particular mathematical comparison.



It's something to do.


I see what you're saying...but I wouldn't base it on the DVC rental market. Remember: we are all ultimately renters from Disney and if they sense a distinct pattern of circumventing the purchase of new contracts by frequent, consistent renting...they'll blow it up in a Wall Street minute.

Yup. I thought I remembered more limiting on the rentals when we first bought.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yup. I thought I remembered more limiting on the rentals when we first bought.

There's actually is...it is just seldom invoked.

While Florida considers DVC a real estate transaction... The contracts are written up basically as elaborate rental agreements.

They can't tell you to not use your "interest" how you want or deny you the privilege to book for who you want...

But they can suspend your usage at any moment if they think you are renting it and turning one cent in profit...it in the contract.

So DVC rentals are actually somewhere between 100% legitimate and 100% illegal...depending on who's looking at it and how ticked off they are that day.

It's kinda like a college apartment...while most have language that allows subletting...you can't rent them out nightly or on the weekends for party houses/ shag palaces...

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

~I took a nice long sabbatical, I missed posting on Rumors so much. I noticed that a problematic poster wasn't posting here at all after I left, just as expected -- I was so thrilled. Predictably, it hasn't even been 24 hours since I started posting here again and now the problem is suddenly back, but at least everyone knows the real deal now. Ugh...

~Anyway, I miss my mean pirate.

 

[Rumors Rocks]

~I took a nice long sabbatical, I missed posting on Rumors so much. I noticed that a problematic poster wasn't posting here at all after I left, just as expected -- I was so thrilled. Predictably, it hasn't even been 24 hours since I started posting here again and now the problem is suddenly back, but at least everyone knows the real deal now. Ugh...

~Anyway, I miss my mean pirate.

Sadly, I noticed this, too. It's best to just ignore it.

I was just going to start a few new threads and post some Disney news but decided against it. I will hold off for now.