Orlando Sentinel story about "inappropriate fondling" on the Dream

[Moxin]

I don't agree there was a coverup, but if so, then local authorities allowed it to remain hidden from the public for over 9 months as well when they knew about the assault the day after it occurred.

What is their responsibility to report to the media? The suspect was gone, the family didn't press charges...

 

[Rogillio]

You don't know anyone who actually works in PR, at least for a reputable company, do you? The job of a REAL PR professional (in terms of negative issues) is to take the mistake/misunderstanding...whatever and get ahead of it. Tell the company's consumers (us) that a mistake happened, that they understand that, they are sorry and they have made changes to policy/process...whatever to ensure that such an incident doesn't (or is unlikely) to ever occur again. The job of a PR team isn't to hide or cover-up, it is to restore/maintain the faith and trust of the consumer/public.

You have been the 1st to get defensive at posts you feel are inappropriate throughout this thread. I am personally offended by your bashing of an important and legitimate profession in order to minimize and deflect from the weakness of your argument. You know who leads the effort for companies & communities to rally around those in need? Who works with employers to better themselves and their products for consumers? To create synergy between sponsor companies and efforts like Race for the Cure or blood drives? PR Professionals. Thank you very much!

I actually know serveral people that work in PR for Fortune 500 Companiues.

I got defensive of rude/snarky comments directy at people like the one I bolded above. My comments were not directed at anyone. I stated my opinion about one of the funtions of public relations being to put the best spin on bad press. I stand by this opinion. I belive Disney does a good job of keeping a lid on negative news.

I'm sorry you took offence on behalf of the entire PR profession. Maybe the PR profession has a public relations issue with how people view thier profession. Just a thought.

 

[jcemom]

A sexual assault is reported, and DCL did nothing...they looked the other way, debarked, and then got the suspect off of the ship, got him home, and out of harms way.

Maybe it's not on the same scale as Penn State, but the actions are equivalent.

It isn't anywhere near the same scale as Penn State. We're talking a mountain vs. a molehill when it comes to the difference in scale. IMO, they aren't comparable...unless we find out that this has happened hundreds of times over the past ten years, and that DCL knew about it the entire time.

ETA: I just wanted to add that I don't want it to sound as if I am condoning DCL's actions (or inaction, as the case may be). I don't think they handled this situation very well. However, as far as we know, it's one isolated incident. I sure as heck have no plans to cancel my upcoming WDW or DCL vacations based on one poorly handled incident where even the family involved did not press charges. If and when I hear that there were more such incidents, I may reconsider my opinion.

 

[Rogillio]

Ummm, when you get rid of someone suspected of sexual assault and return them to their home country AFTER getting them off US soil...that's a cover up.

No it's not. DCL turned him over to the authorities in the Bahama. The grandparents opted to not press charges. What exactly did the "cover up"? You may not like the outcome but there was no cover up. If they wanted to cover it up they would not have reported it to the Bahamian athorities and the US athorities the next day. A cover up would be to simply send the guy home and not tell athorities about the incident.

 

[Moxin]

No it's not. DCL turned him over to the authorities in the Bahama. The grandparents opted to not press charges. What exactly did the "cover up"? You may not like the outcome but there was no cover up. If they wanted to cover it up they would not have reported it to the Bahamian athorities and the US athorities the next day. A cover up would be to simply send the guy home and not tell athorities about the incident.

So a crime is committed on US soil, it's reported while the ship is on US soil...local authorities are NOT alerted to the crime. DCL knows, leaves port, and turns him over to Bahamian authorities who can do nothing because there is no warrant for him, and no crime has been committed on their soil.

And you think DCL didn't protect him and cover this up?

 

[Rogillio]

Ummm, when you get rid of someone suspected of sexual assault and return them to their home country AFTER getting them off US soil...that's a cover up.

Read the entire thead - he was not on American soil. He was on Bahamian soil docked at an American port. He was turned over to the Bahamian authories and the grandparents decided not to presss charges. That is not Disney's fault. That is the fault of the grandparents for refusing to press charges and/or the Bahamiam government. Now, if it can be shown that DCL knew the grandparents did not want to press charges before the left PC and they knew the Bahamiams were not going to press charges on him despite the grandparents refusal to press charges, then you might could make a case....but this is all conjectur and speculation and there is zero evidence to indicate this was the case. It is also not clear to that the US authories would have indicted him. Without the testimony of the child, the have a nebulus video tape and hearsay. I just have a hard time the US Attorney's office would indict a foreiner given the lack of proof. Had he been arrested in the US he would have been Marandized and given a lawyer and likely not confessed. So then you have his word vs the child's word...but you don't have the child to testify so you have only the written word of her complaint.

 

[DMMarla07860]

I don't agree there was a coverup, but if so, then local authorities allowed it to remain hidden from the public for over 9 months as well when they knew about the assault the day after it occurred.

you make a good point. Did it mention that local authorities knew about it back after that cruise? Or did they also just find out this week?

Cover up by DCL and Authorities, if Authorities knew of it before this week, I'm joking. But did they know about it back in August, because if so I gotta blame them too

 

[honeymo78]

you make a good point. Did it mention that local authorities knew about it back after that cruise? Or did they also just find out this week?

Cover up by DCL and Authorities, if Authorities knew of it before this week, I'm joking. But did they know about it back in August, because if so I gotta blame them too

According to the news report, DCL told Florida authorities in Aug, the day after the incident. The chief said he was planning on sending someone to meet the ship when it returned but didn't investigate after learning the man had been sent back to India.

If DCL had done something illegal, local authorities should have reported it/acted on it. The fact that nothing happened and DCL was not questioned about the event (at least no public record of it) upon returning, leads me to believe that DCL did nothing illegal or procedurally wrong.

 

[rhorsley]

I actually know serveral people that work in PR for Fortune 500 Companiues.

I got defensive of rude/snarky comments directy at people like the one I bolded above. My comments were not directed at anyone. I stated my opinion about one of the funtions of public relations being to put the best spin on bad press. I stand by this opinion. I belive Disney does a good job of keeping a lid on negative news.

I'm sorry you took offence on behalf of the entire PR profession. Maybe the PR profession has a public relations issue with how people view thier profession. Just a thought.

Maybe you read into things as being snarky or are perhaps overly defensive? I don't know...I was asking a serious question since the view given is so out of sync with the day-to-day reality of the job. I take offense as a PR professional, not on behalf of the entire profession. My job is not to cover-up but to help. It is to help companies identify what they need to fix (probably that bad press) and then aid in communicating that to the public, not hide problems.

If Disney does a good job of "keeping the lid" on bad news, I can assure you that is NOT a function of a PR professional. We are communicators, not concealers. We do Damage Control - not Damage Concealment.

As for your thoughts about the PR profession having a public relations issue with how people view their profession...I counter, that we apparently have problem with a certain number of people not understanding what the profession really entails. I can almost guarantee that when decisions were made on that boat or after when it was decided to file that report away, no PR folks were consulted.

A cynic might suggest that if this is what Disney does, that those are lawyers or leadership making such dictims...however, since I am not a lawyer or an employee of Disney Corp, I cannot say. I can say however, that it appears clear that mistakes were made which need to be honestly addressed (not ignored) by the company and then communicated by a competent PR team in order to maintain the trust and faith of the public and their consumers.

I have reached out to DCL as a consumer and have asked for their comments on the matter. I will let you know, what (if anything) I hear back.

 

[TwinPrincessMermaids]

They need a PR rep at THIS point though...

Thanks for reaching out to them! I'm sure many will be so they will need to come out and officially do some "damage control"...

 

[rhorsley]

Since it seems many did not go to the link I posted like 10 pages ago, I'll include excerpts:

"In fact, your legal rights depend on whether the vessel is in port or within a country's territorial waters, where local law may apply, or on the high seas, where maritime law is in force. Few passengers are aware that the rules effectively change during their cruise, and when they find out what their rights are — and aren't — they are often surprised....According to the Bureau of Justice, 1 in every 1,000 people is raped or sexually assaulted on land each year; on cruise ships, there is only one alleged incident of sexual assault for every 100,000 passengers.

While legal experts don't necessarily dispute these statistics, they say that a closer look at the numbers suggests a deeper problem. For example, if a serious crime is committed at sea against an American citizen, the ship's security staff is supposed to report it to the F.B.I. But there are at least two exemptions: crimes against noncitizens are not included, and it is largely left up to the ship's security officers as to what constitutes a "serious" crime. Similarly, the statistics on assault and rape may be artificially low, according to legal experts. Many passengers are unwilling to report an assault because of the humiliating nature of the crime, and because they are uncertain of their legal status at sea.

The way in which the crimes are prosecuted can be different, too. "Crimes at sea are controlled by admiralty law," said Jeffrey Miller, a lawyer specializing in travel with the Columbia, Md., law firm of Lipshultz & Miller. "If the crime is committed in the territorial waters of a country or at port, then that country's laws and criminal justice system are in control," he said. "Thus a crime while in port in Cozumel or in Mexican waters would lead to Mexican justice — or lack thereof."

While this may seem confusing in principle, it isn't in practice, according to the cruise lines. "In port, a crime is reported to local law enforcement," explained Tim Gallagher, a spokesman for Carnival Cruise Lines. At sea, the ship's security officer is notified of a crime. "The security officer would meet with the victim or the person reporting the crime, and take statements. It's our policy to report any crime that occurs where an American citizen is involved to the F.B.I.," he said.

If someone is believed to have committed a crime on the high seas, the captain can decide whether to incarcerate a suspect until the ship reaches home port or to remove that person at the next port of call — even if it is in another country.

Mr. Gallagher said Carnival's standard operating procedure is to detain a suspect in a "serious" crime and hand the passenger over to the F.B.I. in the next port. Typically, he added, the kinds of passengers who are removed from the ship early are those who have engaged in unruly behavior.

 

[mrsklamc]

Read the entire thead - he was not on American soil. He was on Bahamian soil docked at an American port. .

In port they are subject to FL law.

 

[Moxin]

Read the entire thead - he was not on American soil. He was on Bahamian soil docked at an American port.

That is incorrect.

 

[SapphireMind]

Since it seems many did not go to the link I posted like 10 pages ago, I'll include excerpts:

"In fact, your legal rights depend on whether the vessel is in port or within a country's territorial waters, where local law may apply, or on the high seas, where maritime law is in force. Few passengers are aware that the rules effectively change during their cruise, and when they find out what their rights are — and aren't — they are often surprised....According to the Bureau of Justice, 1 in every 1,000 people is raped or sexually assaulted on land each year; on cruise ships, there is only one alleged incident of sexual assault for every 100,000 passengers.

You can't extrapolate those statistics. You're comparing the population at large to a self-selected population that is largely limited to higher socio-economic classes during a special event, frequently traveled in by groups, instead of a lone man or woman. Completely different.

While legal experts don't necessarily dispute these statistics, they say that a closer look at the numbers suggests a deeper problem. For example, if a serious crime is committed at sea against an American citizen, the ship's security staff is supposed to report it to the F.B.I. But there are at least two exemptions: crimes against noncitizens are not included, and it is largely left up to the ship's security officers as to what constitutes a "serious" crime.

From my understanding, the victim was a brazilian citizen, not an american citizen, therefore it does not apply legally. Brazilian authorities have as much, if not more jurisdiction as american authorities.

Similarly, the statistics on assault and rape may be artificially low, according to legal experts. Many passengers are unwilling to report an assault because of the humiliating nature of the crime, and because they are uncertain of their legal status at sea.

There is no reason to think that people on a cruise would be any more unlikely to report. They could be considered more likely to report because on average (because of socioeconomic factors) they have a better education and do know their rights.

If someone is believed to have committed a crime on the high seas, the captain can decide whether to incarcerate a suspect until the ship reaches home port or to remove that person at the next port of call — even if it is in another country.

Mr. Gallagher said Carnival's standard operating procedure is to detain a suspect in a "serious" crime and hand the passenger over to the F.B.I. in the next port. Typically, he added, the kinds of passengers who are removed from the ship early are those who have engaged in unruly behavior.

It would be difficult to justify the FBI, as the victim was not an american citizen, the boat wasn't american and the criminal wasn't american. And again, the grandparents elected to not press charges. In the US, do you know what they would have done? Sent him back to India on the taxpayer's dime as a deportation.

I don't think things should be covered up (and I agree it is insane to compare this to Penn State) but let's get some realism here too.

 

[susans]

I am shocked and disappointed that Disney did not tell the local authorities about the incident until after the ship left port.

Just because the grandparents didn't choose to prosecute doesn't mean the state wouldn't do so. And just because Disney hasn't been charged with a crime doesn't mean they aren't guilty. Criminal actions are not always prosecuted.

If the facts are correct in the article, I would say obstruction of justice definitely occured. What if everybody just decided to report a crime when it became convenient?

 

[rhorsley]

You can't extrapolate those statistics. You're comparing the population at large to a self-selected population that is largely limited to higher socio-economic classes during a special event, frequently traveled in by groups, instead of a lone man or woman. Completely different.



From my understanding, the victim was a brazilian citizen, not an american citizen, therefore it does not apply legally. Brazilian authorities have as much, if not more jurisdiction as american authorities.


There is no reason to think that people on a cruise would be any more unlikely to report. They could be considered more likely to report because on average (because of socioeconomic factors) they have a better education and do know their rights.



It would be difficult to justify the FBI, as the victim was not an american citizen, the boat wasn't american and the criminal wasn't american. And again, the grandparents elected to not press charges. In the US, do you know what they would have done? Sent him back to India on the taxpayer's dime as a deportation.

I don't think things should be covered up (and I agree it is insane to compare this to Penn State) but let's get some realism here too.

OK... You have obviously missed the point of me posting excerpts from this article...

1. I don't care about the statistics - I was copying excerpts from an article in the NY times. I probably should have deleted that part. Important stuff is bold.

2. If you read the excerpts - if it was reported when it happened, as it should have been - it would have been per FL/US law. In which case her nationality is irrelevant. However, by waiting til they were out at sea, they nullified any legal obligation to the girl as a non-citizen (hence the emboldened "crimes committed at sea.") Given the way Disney reported it at sea - unless the victim was American no one other than Disney had the right to investigate/prosecute.

3. Again, not bold, not really relevant to any of the points being made here - just another part of the article. Sorry I didn't delete - a lot of the article was about how under reported Cruise crimes are. But you make a strange point - because you can take a cruise you are smart? That doesn't square with a lot of folks I meet on cruises. One lady at our table on a Celebrity cruise asked one night if Quail was a sort of fish.

4. You are wrong - plain wrong. Even for non-citizens, when abuse of a child is reported in the US the FBI is obligated to investigate. Regardless of nationality of the victim or victim's families desire to pursue the case. There have been numerous links throughout this thread to that effect.

Also, it shows that the decision to remove the suspect from the ship in the Bahamas vs returning to port with him rests with the Captain.

 

[Rogillio]

1 in every 1,000 people is raped or sexually assaulted on land each year; on cruise ships, there is only one alleged incident of sexual assault for every 100,000 passengers.

These numbers do not suprise me at all. What makes a cruise unique is everyone is 'captive'. If a molestation occurs on a ship, you know the suspect is on the ship. Would be asailants know this. They know there is no way to 'escape' or get away or hide.

And this is what bugs me about the DCL incident. Surely all Disney CMs know there are cameras all over the ship. This guy had to of know he was being video taped. Was he that stupid to think he could do this and not get caught?! Maybe he was on drugs or something.

Another thing that bothers me is the tape is edited and I don't know why. There is a discontinuity and they change speeds when he bends over so you don't really have a sense of time for the alledged kiss.

All the 'data' comes from a single news source. I would really like to see some independant investigative jouralism. But so far, no one has picked up the story except to republish from the same source.

 

[gunka]

I hardly think it's a "cover up". "Cover Ups" take days/hours to happen, this crime occurred as the ship was preparing to depart port. The ship reported the crime to the authorities in both ports.

It amazes me that this one crime, which has to represent less than .01% of the normal cruise experience, can be blown up the way it is being on this thread.

 

[Rogillio]

In port they are subject to FL law.

And if they broke the law the FL State Attorney should filed charges. But it's not clear by any stretch of the imagination that any laws were broken.

If the law says they are required to notify local authorities they did that. Does the law specifically say you have 12 minutes to report the incident? Or within one hour? 2 hours? Call 911 upon hearing a complaint? I doubt it.

 

[justmestace]

This comes down to decision made by one or two people so lets not indict the entire company based on one incident.



Can't believe the over reaction of some people. Life happens. No company is perfect....because they are run by PEOPLE! Fallable people!

YAY!!! We finally agree on something!!!


This is exactly what I said when the Captain of the Concordia rammed the ship into the rocks. Everyone on the DIS was slamming Carnival, saying how terrible they are, blah blah blah.....but, as you're saying, it's wasn't Carnival's fault...it was just a bad decision made by one person!
(And in fact, in that case, that one person did the same thing many, many other Captains had done in the past, without incident....he just "miscalculated", right?)