Another possible drowning - Disney Fantasy ******UPDATE

[Mkrop]

I like that the pools are pretty much open 24 hours per day, and would never expect Disney to have lifeguards on duty and for them to close their pools early. People need to take personal responsibility.

Note: This is not being non-empathetic, just reality that we all are responsible for our own actions and we should not hold anyone else responsible for them.

I dont think the pools need to be closed, I just think that lifeguards need to be in place.

I think responsibility can be placed in the parent's hands as well as Disney.

I am totally for personal responsibility and think parents need to watch their children but I also think that Disney needs responsibilty for those guests in the pool

 

[Bluestars]

I don't think it's too much to ask to have a life guard on duty during the daytime hours on a cruise ship where children are all over the place. I also think anyone under 12 should not be able to swim without an adult present. Maybe kids under five who can't swim should be offered life vests. I think they do that at the Disney hotels.

This won't prevent all drownings, but I think it will help.

Since this child was only four, it seems most likely that he probably just got away from his parents and they were looking for him when they were told about his near-drowning. I can't see any parents allowing a 4 year old to swim without constant supervision. Kids can dart off quickly. Maybe if the young kids who can't swim put on life vests as soon as their family enters the pool area, it would help.

Accidents happen and luckily this little boy seems like he will be ok. It must have been a horrible experience for everyone involved.

 

[JakeJenna]

I've never been on a Disney cruise but not offering life vest for small children is crazy. I have never been to a waterpark that didn't offer life vest for kids, all of them much smaller than Disney. It sounds to me Disney could do a lot more than the zero they do now.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

I dont think the pools need to be closed, I just think that lifeguards need to be in place.

I think responsibility can be placed in the parent's hands as well as Disney.

I am totally for personal responsibility and think parents need to watch their children but I also think that Disney needs responsibilty for those guests in the pool

Disagree...I wouldn't want to see dues at DVC resorts jump to add enough life guards to all the pools to allow for extended pool hours and wouldn't want pools closed for extended hours.

Disney provides life guards during busy times, however, they are a safety net, not an absolute prevention.

 

[Colleen27]

I dont think the pools need to be closed, I just think that lifeguards need to be in place.

Disney is not going to incur that expense. Lifeguards work in pairs/teams and don't work full 8 hour shifts. At bare minimum you're looking at 9 and preferably 12+ guards to cover 24 hours at a single pool, and a rough tally gives me a total of 56 resort pools on property. They are not going to go to the expense of 500+ new employees to keep all those pools guarded around the clock.

If Disney determines that lifeguards need to be in place any time people are swimming, it will mean the closure of pools at night and probably the elimination of many/most quiet pools as well.

 

[dakcp2001]

I think it is unreasonable for Disney to put lifeguards 24 hours. It would really drive up costs. So that leaves 2 alternatives

1. pools close when life guards are off duty - what time should life guards go off duty, that is a gray area

2. pools stay open but people need to watch their kids

I think the answer is pretty clear cut. Disney should not be responsible to watch all the children in the pool 24 hours a day. I think parents need to be at the pool with their children. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation. If your kid "gets away from you" as other people have suggested, then you can't blame Disney when an accident occurs. Swimming is dangerous even with lifeguards and parents watching and an accident can happen in a few seconds. People need to be careful.

 

[Gabe1]

Disney is not going to incur that expense. Lifeguards work in pairs/teams and don't work full 8 hour shifts. At bare minimum you're looking at 9 and preferably 12+ guards to cover 24 hours at a single pool, and a rough tally gives me a total of 56 resort pools on property. They are not going to go to the expense of 500+ new employees to keep all those pools guarded around the clock.

If Disney determines that lifeguards need to be in place any time people are swimming, it will mean the closure of pools at night and probably the elimination of many/most quiet pools as well.

My DS first job was a lifeguard for Disney on WDW property. He worked 40 hours a week minimum and an 8 hour day. They are never a lone lifeguard. From my understanding of the story this was an extended family trip and relatives were in the pool with the boy and when the kid went under it was the cousin that pulled him up and the dad of the boy began the CPR.

My kids were competition swimmers and I'm all for parents keeping an eye on their kids as lifeguards are for emergencies however I cannot wrap my brain around Disney deciding not to have lifeguards posted during busy times at the family pool on the cruise ship. I realize it is posted but I can't agree that it is a grand idea. Lifeguards do so much more than watch for drowning guests, they maintain order, watch for stupid diving guests, guests tossing each other in the pool, standing on each others shoulders, you name it or it is a freak'n free for all in a main pool. Quiet pools, well that is a different debate.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

Maybe there is a compromise of lifeguards on duty a few hours longer till 11pm, then they close the pools. Swim in the quiet pool, swim at your own risk during the same hours.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

There are 3 pools on the Fantasy. Let's take a PP's estimate of 12 full time employees to cover each pool. I like that, it's 2 people per shift, plus a third to give them breaks, plus an extra shift to give people days off. So 36 people.

Now, let's assume they're paying minimum wage plus benefits. That brings us to about $10/hour, and let's double that to cover the room. So 36 people x $800 for a week's cruise. That's $28,800 for a week, or about $7 a passenger.

I would happily pay $14 more for my family of 2 to cruise knowing that there was an extra set of eyes on my kid in the pool, and that someone else would be enforcing rules about jumping and roughhousing, not for my kid, but for all the obnoxious people who seem to think the pool is just for them.

 

[dakcp2001]

My DS first job was a lifeguard for Disney on WDW property. He worked 40 hours a week minimum and an 8 hour day. They are never a lone lifeguard. From my understanding of the story this was an extended family trip and relatives were in the pool with the boy and when the kid went under it was the cousin that pulled him up and the dad of the boy began the CPR.

My kids were competition swimmers and I'm all for parents keeping an eye on their kids as lifeguards are for emergencies however I cannot wrap my brain around Disney deciding not to have lifeguards posted during busy times at the family pool on the cruise ship. I realize it is posted but I can't agree that it is a grand idea. Lifeguards do so much more than watch for drowning guests, they maintain order, watch for stupid diving guests, guests tossing each other in the pool, standing on each others shoulders, you name it or it is a freak'n free for all in a main pool. Quiet pools, well that is a different debate.

Where did you get the info? I have not seen it anywhere. I imagine the guilt the poor cousins and extended family will feel. Survivor guilt is an odd thing, even when it is not their fault. I am still haunted by the article about the boy who drowned at the Disney resort pool and the quote from his little brother.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

Where did you get the info? I have not seen it anywhere. I imagine the guilt the poor cousins and extended family will feel. Survivor guilt is an odd thing, even when it is not their fault. I am still haunted by the article about the boy who drowned at the Disney resort pool and the quote from his little brother.

The pp's story is from the drowning at POP, not this case. Also, it turned out not to be the father that did CPR, not sure where that information came from.

 

[maxiesmom]

Exactly. When something horrible like this happens, people try and think of ways to prevent it from happening again. Truth is, you can't prevent every accident from happening, no matter what steps you take to stop them. You could have 30 lifeguards at every pool and still have an accident.

At some point people need to stop thinking accidents can be prevented, and realize when a sign says Swim At Your Own Risk there really is a little risk involved. There is always risk when you are flinging yourself around in a body of water.

 

[goofy4tink]

I dont think the pools need to be closed, I just think that lifeguards need to be in place.

I think responsibility can be placed in the parent's hands as well as Disney.

I am totally for personal responsibility and think parents need to watch their children but I also think that Disney needs responsibilty for those guests in the pool

There is signage, at every pool, that states that there is no lifeguard on duty at specific times. We don't need to have lifeguards in the pools at 10pm!! If you choose to swim at that time, then you need to take even more responsibility for your kids. You know there are no lifeguards, you take the chance. It's really simple. If Disney has a sign at every pool, saying that there are no lifeguards on duty, and a parent chooses to go in anyway??? I suppose we could have locks on the pools. But I have to tell you....if I want to take a nice, quick, quiet dip in the pool, before bed at midnight, I don't want to be denied entry into the pool area because parents couldn't make good choices.

 

[sam_gordon]

Exactly. When something horrible like this happens, people try and think of ways to prevent it from happening again. Truth is, you can't prevent every accident from happening, no matter what steps you take to stop them. You could have 30 lifeguards at every pool and still have an accident.

At some point people need to stop thinking accidents can be prevented, and realize when a sign says Swim At Your Own Risk there really is a little risk involved. There is always risk when you are flinging yourself around in a body of water.

 

[Mkrop]

Disagree...I wouldn't want to see dues at DVC resorts jump to add enough life guards to all the pools to allow for extended pool hours and wouldn't want pools closed for extended hours.

Disney provides life guards during busy times, however, they are a safety net, not an absolute prevention.

Disney is not going to incur that expense. Lifeguards work in pairs/teams and don't work full 8 hour shifts. At bare minimum you're looking at 9 and preferably 12+ guards to cover 24 hours at a single pool, and a rough tally gives me a total of 56 resort pools on property. They are not going to go to the expense of 500+ new employees to keep all those pools guarded around the clock.

If Disney determines that lifeguards need to be in place any time people are swimming, it will mean the closure of pools at night and probably the elimination of many/most quiet pools as well.

I think it is unreasonable for Disney to put lifeguards 24 hours. It would really drive up costs. So that leaves 2 alternatives

1. pools close when life guards are off duty - what time should life guards go off duty, that is a gray area

2. pools stay open but people need to watch their kids

I think the answer is pretty clear cut. Disney should not be responsible to watch all the children in the pool 24 hours a day. I think parents need to be at the pool with their children. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation. If your kid "gets away from you" as other people have suggested, then you can't blame Disney when an accident occurs. Swimming is dangerous even with lifeguards and parents watching and an accident can happen in a few seconds. People need to be careful.

There is signage, at every pool, that states that there is no lifeguard on duty at specific times. We don't need to have lifeguards in the pools at 10pm!! If you choose to swim at that time, then you need to take even more responsibility for your kids. You know there are no lifeguards, you take the chance. It's really simple. If Disney has a sign at every pool, saying that there are no lifeguards on duty, and a parent chooses to go in anyway??? I suppose we could have locks on the pools. But I have to tell you....if I want to take a nice, quick, quiet dip in the pool, before bed at midnight, I don't want to be denied entry into the pool area because parents couldn't make good choices.

Then we will need to agree to disagree. I dont think the pools should be unattended EVER. This is my personal opinion.

And as far as I am aware parents WERE there when the boy at Pop drowned, who knows if having lifeguards could have prevented such a tradgedy. We will never know.

 

[crashbb]

Then we will need to agree to disagree. I dont think the pools should be unattended EVER. This is my personal opinion.

So, you are suggesting life guards 24 hours a day at all pools? Including the quiet pools (which currently have no life guards at all)? Are all the pools even lit for night swimming (if not, having a life guard isn't going to be much help, since they won't be able to properly see - even if someone did decide to swim in the dark).

 

[Mkrop]

So, you are suggesting life guards 24 hours a day at all pools? Including the quiet pools (which currently have no life guards at all)? Are all the pools even lit for night swimming (if not, having a life guard isn't going to be much help, since they won't be able to properly see - even if someone did decide to swim in the dark).

Yes either lifeguards on duty or the pool is closed. And certainly if they are not lit for night swimming they should be closed.

Once again this is my personal opinion. I dont think WDW is going to change how they are doing things bc of my opinion but I can still have one. I am a big proponent of personal responsibility but to me the risk is way to dangerous and people do not for one minute take those signs seriously enough.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes either lifeguards on duty or the pool is closed. And certainly if they are not lit for night swimming they should be closed.

Once again this is my personal opinion. I dont think WDW is going to change how they are doing things bc of my opinion but I can still have one. I am a big proponent of personal responsibility but to me the risk is way to dangerous and people do not for one minute take those signs seriously enough.

You are entitled to your opinions, but I think we are also allowed to question those opinions. Do you think hotel (non-Disney) pools should provide life guards also? If not, why do they get a pass?

 

[maxiesmom]

Once again this is my personal opinion. I dont think WDW is going to change how they are doing things bc of my opinion but I can still have one. I am a big proponent of personal responsibility but to me the risk is way to dangerous and people do not for one minute take those signs seriously enough.

How could Disney close them, and be 100% sure no one would swim? Because it seems that is what you would like to have happen. Even with a closed sign, or with fences built all around the pools, someone would sneak in.

Personal responsibility is a great thing. If someone doesn't take the signs seriously now, what makes you think they would take a Pool Closed, No Swimming sign seriously? You can't prevent people from making bad choices, and assuming risk if they choose to.

 

[crashbb]

Yes either lifeguards on duty or the pool is closed. And certainly if they are not lit for night swimming they should be closed.

Once again this is my personal opinion. I dont think WDW is going to change how they are doing things bc of my opinion but I can still have one. I am a big proponent of personal responsibility but to me the risk is way to dangerous and people do not for one minute take those signs seriously enough.

I'm not trying to change your opinion - just trying to work out what, exactly, your opinion is. You said "I dont think the pools should be unattended EVER", I wasn't sure if you really meant was literally written (24-hour life guards) or if you meant that they should be closed when there are no life guards.