Fast Pass Plus Episode...Are they kidding?

[Hunclemarco]

Just posted on the DIS in the updates section: http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2013/02/17/disney-patent-hints-at-future-plans-for-mymagic/

Guess this only adds to more speculation

 

[JimmyV]

So because my family chooses to rent a 3-bedroom house in Kissimmee rather than cram ourselves into a 400 sq. ft. room at Grand Floridian (for 4 or 5 times the cost), we are not going to have the same access to rides in the parks. I'm not okay with that.

Of course you are not OK with that. But Disney is, and should be. Disney has to look at this as rewarding people who funnel their money to it instead of redirecting that money elsewhere. Not that this necessarily describes you, but a person who rents a property with a kitchen off-site, who eats breakfast at the condo, packs a picnic lunch, eats dinner back at the condo and buys their ticket from UT gives Disney nothing but the cost that UT paid for the park ticket, plus perhaps a parking fee. Basically $300 per person for a week. $1,200 for a family of four. A similar family who stays 7 nights at a Deluxe, buys their ticket from Disney, and eats most of their meals on property will spend upwards of $7,000 for their vacation. In the eyes of the corporation that is trying to realize as much profit as possible from each visiting family, is it wrong to offer an extra perk to the family spending that much? It isn't as if the off-site guest is having anything taken away. They just aren't getting the bonus. The bonus is an incentive for you to stay on site and spend more money. That's good business.

On an airplane, you could have no fewer than four types of passengers.

• The person who never flies on that airline, but got a great deal on a heavily discounted seat.
• The person who flies on that airline very often and spends thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars on tickets each year, but who also bought a heavily discounted ticket.
• The person who paid full fare for their ticket.
• The person who bought a first class ticket.

Each of these people is entitled to board the plane and each is entitled to arrive at the same final destination. But each of these people is going to have a different experience in terms of seat selection, free drinks, a meal, free luggage allowances, etc. To think otherwise is silly. And the person who stays off-site is entitled to gain admission to the park and is entitled to ride TSM, just as the Deluxe guest is. But there is little reason why their experience should be identical. The same logic would hold true for Deluxe vs. Value resorts, except the Value guest should still stand in better shoes than the off-site guest for the reasons stated. The Dining Plan has worked like this for years. During free dining, Deluxe guests get a bigger benefit than the Value guests, and this is indeed a benefit that transfers with the guest even as they move away from the resort. It carries with them to the parks. The big difference is that with the Dining Plan, Value guests have the option of paying to upgrade the experience, which is an option that I would love to see if indeed the FP+ system evolves in a way so as to allow Deluxe guests to have more passes. Everyone who stays on-site should be permitted to pay out of pocket to achieve that same result.

 

[ChrisFL]

Just posted on the DIS in the updates section: http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2013/02/17/disney-patent-hints-at-future-plans-for-mymagic/

Guess this only adds to more speculation

My head hurts already and I've only read half of it.

I realize that a lot of this is proprietary calculation information from guest activities, etc. etc., but good luck to the CM's whose job it is to explain this stuff!!

 

[pdarrah]

It isn't as if the off-site guest is having anything taken away. They just aren't getting the bonus. The bonus is an incentive for you to stay on site and spend more money. That's good business.

This is where we disagree. There is a very definite finite limit on the number of fastpasses available. If Deluxe guests get more, then there are fewer available for everyone else. ALL guests are paying the same admission to the park (well with some variation on 1-day vs multi-day costs per day) - if you want to go to the airplane analogy, if every single person on the plane is paying the same fare - is it OK for some guests to get drinks, but others don't get anything?

We don't know yet how they will implement FP+, but there does have to be a limit on the number available for a single ride, just as there is for regular FP now. Very popular rides like TSM or Soaring run out of FP very early in the day, however ANY guest has a chance at getting those FP. If Deluxe guests get extra FP+ that is a LOT of them - think how many rooms there are - and odds are most will go ahead and sign up for their full allotment even if they aren't sure they will use them "just in case" they do want to ride. That will be a LOT of FP for popular rides that are not available to anyone else. The more that are pre-assigned, the fewer that will be available for any kind of "day of" systems (either regular FP or some new version of FP+ that you can get in the park at a kiosk or something)

So, YES, the off-site, value or moderate guest would having something taken away - they would have a much lesser chance of getting that FP that they used to be able to get.

Dining is quite different - off site guests can still make a reservation and eat in a restaurant without a dining plan. As you said, during "free dining" a Value guest can choose to pay more and upgrade the plan. Those of us who dislike the dining plan are free to make reservations and dine in any restaurant we want.

 

[JimmyV]

There is a very definite finite limit on the number of fastpasses available. If Deluxe guests get more, then there are fewer available for everyone else.

Not necessarily. Most people who have thought this through are concluding that the new allotment of 3 FP+ per day would be fewer FPs than they are used to, especially if one or more are for lower-tier attractions or events such as parades. If that turns out to be the case, then Disney has a lot of extra FP+s to play with, either through dissemination of same-day passes, or as incentives to specific customers. In other words, if on a typical day, guests use 10,000 FPs, but the new system doles out only 7,000 in advance, then giving Deluxe guests the other 3,000 doesn't result in fewer being availabe for non-Deluxe guests. We just have to wait and see how this plays out.

ALL guests are paying the same admission to the park (well with some variation on 1-day vs multi-day costs per day) - if you want to go to the airplane analogy, if every single person on the plane is paying the same fare - is it OK for some guests to get drinks, but others don't get anything?

But from the corporation's standpoint, is park admission price the primary factor to look at, or is it total income derived from the complete vacation package? Back to the airplane analogy. In a vacuum, if every passenger paid the same price for that specific flight, you would think that they should all be treated equally. But if you broaden your view, and see that 10 passengers, while having paid the same fare as you on that flight, also generated $10,000 of additional income from flights earlier in the year, shouldn't they be rewarded? Does that extra revenue count for nothing? In the narrow view, a particular individual could take 200 flights a year and aways pay the lowest fare, but the cumulative effect of all of those flights counts for nothing since that person is always paying the same as everyone else on each particular flight. Rewarding expenditure does not work that way. Perhaps Deluxe resort status should only count as one factor in deciding how to reward loyalty. Maybe total times visited and total dollars spent over that time should count as well. I'd love to see a system where a family that has spent $10,000 over years and years of "Value" visits rewarded over a Deluxe guest who is there for the first time. But in the end, dollars spent will and should matter to the corporation.

We don't know yet how they will implement FP+...

On this, we agree!

 

[dwaters]

This is enough to make anyone's head spin!

We'll just have to wait and see how it all works.


Count me in as being against making more Fastpasses available to those in deluxes. Keep the perks at the resorts themselves.

 

[rluey29]

One of my biggest worries with FP+ (and then the eventual phasing out of regular FP)

I presume standby lines for e-tickets will actually be longer because people wont have the option to get multiple fp's in one day for whatever ride they want.

So, the only way to have any chance to ride e-tickets more than once on a trip would be to make it to rope drop. With that said, I could actually see rd getting busier.

This is what I have thought all along. More people will be running to get in the standby lines so they can ride their favorites more than once. I am very worried that our favorite place will not be the great place it was.

 

[OklahomaTourist]

Even as someone who's been able to stay at Saratoga Springs, I can't say I'm crazy about special/additional FP+'s being available just for Deluxes. But I can't say I'm surprised. I must admit I pay extra for SSR because I like (well, in my family's case, I need) the bigger-than-hotel-room facility it offers. Aside from transportation to the parks, I don't expect *in park* treatment different from anyone else staying on any Disney property. The defacto "caste system" has been on-property versus off-property. That makes sense. You create incentives for people to stay on-property. But punishing the folks who stay at an on-site All Star rather than the Grand Floridian? Man, that just doesn't feel right. Mind you, its Disneys parks, and they can do what they want. But somehow that idea just doesn't pass the sniff test. Work that hard to create an even more fine-grained distinction between guests staying on property really sets off alarm bells in the back of my head.

WDW, over the last several years, has tried to extend the "virtual perimeter" of the parks *out*, such that it's less about MK, Epcot, Hollywood Studios, etc. as it is the broader "WDW Resort" experience. To an extent, I think Disney has been laying the groundwork for making the parks almost ancillary in the "Resort" experience by virtue of the "resort" moniker being plastered everywhere. That is, the "resort" stay starts when you check in to the hotel, not when you enter a park. Not saying I agree with it from a virtue or moral perspective. If you view it from that vein, then the idea of increasing the perks as you increase the "value" of the hotel, it suddenly makes more sense.

But here's a broader problem that may play out. Lots of folks are meticulous planners. But lots of folks aren't. If it truly becomes the norm that folks not merely need to reserve restaurants months in advance, but individual rides,, I can't help but think that's just going to turn at least some folks completely off. As in, "good grief, its a vacation, not a programmed sprint." And this whole extended patent notion Disney is fostering sounds like *precisely* that. Plan your day from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep.

Yuck.

At some point, folks are going to start asking "Yeah, its Disney, but is the hassle factor *really* worth it?" Could just spend some days on the beach at Clearwater....

I think we're going to see EMH go away, and FP+ added as the "perk" for staying on property, with the option to purchase "additional" FP+ passes.

Yuck.

If Disney gives priority ordering and organization to FP+ for all its "e-ticket" rides, at some point the notion of a stand-by line will become a joke - you could be ten people from the ride for two hours while endless trains of FP+ holders are constantly running in front of you. And those could be folks staying on-property. It may be a way to maximize profits, but man, I sure don't think Walt would like it. I don't think he'd be keen on the notion of paying for the privilege of not standing in line. I don't think he intended to create a caste system within his own parks. I could be wrong, but it doesn't *seem* very, well, Disneyesque.

What's a frustrating short-term concern for me is our plan for a return visit this summer - mid June - and I have no idea if or how I should strategize FP+ (if at all) when my 60-day window hits. Is this supposed to be completely deployed by then? If I'm not at DHS by rope-drop, can I just kiss the idea of TSM, Soarin', or TestTrack goodbye for the week I'm there? Good grief, those rides are part of why I'm going. Heck, I don't know what rides are FP+ and which ones aren't, which ones are hooked up, which ones aren't, or even which resorts are converted (room locks, etc) and which ones aren't.

I realize change is inevitable, and maximizing profit is what Disney is all about, but somehow all this just percolates bad vibes all the way around. Maybe things will all settle out, but right now the negative instincts are outweighing the good.

Guess we'll see. If someone can address my concerns I mentioned above, I'd appreciate it.

 

[pittsburghmarc]

I love this community and the friendships, knowledge and debate is spurs, but I have to say IMHO there is a lot of overreaction here. We all know Disney does two things very well, maximize profits and foster a great guest experience.

First, the easy one...maximizing profit - less waiting in line means more purchases of food and merch. We all know that. But sorry to say, most likely this will mean pay more for your room, get more FASTPASSes.

And then, a great guest experience - guest satisfaction, guest retention, repeat visits. That is the business of Disney theme parks. It is forefront in every decision that is made operationally. Every business person who provides a service or product understands retaining a guest/customer is far less expensive than attracting a new guest/customer.

Sorry to pull the Walt card, but he knew it from the very beginning.."We’ve always got to give ‘em a little more. It’ll be worth the investment. If they ever stop coming, it’ll cost 10 times that much to get ‘em back."

Disney isn't going to do anything to jeopardize the guest experience by making it difficult to ride your favorite attraction. And they don't want us to wait any longer in queue than we will tolerate.

Less waiting in line and more attractions rode per day or visit equals a great guest experience.

As far as the first time, non-planner...Disney already mails a beautiful, full color, 6 page brochure to explain the dining plan and a 12 page packet explaining Magical Express to their future guests, so they'll have no problem including a letter explaining FASTPASS+.

So relax, opt out if you wish, continue to soak up the atmosphere and theming. It will all be OK.

Just be ready to shoot yourself after watching Stacey explaining FASTPASS+ on your resort room TV ad nauseum.

 

[pdarrah]

As far as the first time, non-planner...Disney already mails a beautiful, full color, 6 page brochure to explain the dining plan and a 12 page packet explaining Magical Express to their future guests, so they'll have no problem including a letter explaining FASTPASS+.

I guess they only send this to first time guests (or maybe only people on packages and not room-only reservations)? I have been visiting 1-3 times per year for 20 years and have NEVER received anything like this. Unless they send out the info explaining FP+ to ALL guests, it isn't really going to do the job - the first timers may end up knowing more than the long time repeat guests! LOL

The only thing I occasionally receive in the mail pre-trip is a "welcome" flyer from the resort we will be staying at (and not always, just for some resorts). It is usually just a folded cardstock flyer with info about the resort, maybe some "suggestions" of things to do based on the ages in our party, sometimes info about something relatively new at the parks. Definitely no info about Magical Express or the Dining Plans.

 

[bcrook]

I love this community and the friendships, knowledge and debate is spurs, but I have to say IMHO there is a lot of overreaction here. We all know Disney does two things very well, maximize profits and foster a great guest experience.

First, the easy one...maximizing profit - less waiting in line means more purchases of food and merch. We all know that. But sorry to say, most likely this will mean pay more for your room, get more FASTPASSes.

And then, a great guest experience - guest satisfaction, guest retention, repeat visits. That is the business of Disney theme parks. It is forefront in every decision that is made operationally. Every business person who provides a service or product understands retaining a guest/customer is far less expensive than attracting a new guest/customer.

Sorry to pull the Walt card, but he knew it from the very beginning.."We’ve always got to give ‘em a little more. It’ll be worth the investment. If they ever stop coming, it’ll cost 10 times that much to get ‘em back."

Disney isn't going to do anything to jeopardize the guest experience by making it difficult to ride your favorite attraction. And they don't want us to wait any longer in queue than we will tolerate.

Less waiting in line and more attractions rode per day or visit equals a great guest experience.

As far as the first time, non-planner...Disney already mails a beautiful, full color, 6 page brochure to explain the dining plan and a 12 page packet explaining Magical Express to their future guests, so they'll have no problem including a letter explaining FASTPASS+.

So relax, opt out if you wish, continue to soak up the atmosphere and theming. It will all be OK.

Just be ready to shoot yourself after watching Stacey explaining FASTPASS+ on your resort room TV ad nauseum.

I think that might be a misconception. Opt out of what? The only opt out choice might be to stay home.

After everyone is on the magicband bracelet, there really won't be another system for FP. So would people just opt out of riding rides? Only use stand by? If you are staying on site, I think Disney will want everyone to at least use the magicband to get into their rooms and the park.

I know there is a button on the My Disney Experience to de-activate "special offers" so that would be easy to opt out (but then that person would lose all the bonus FP for the day).

So, I guess I could spend $450 per person and just walk around the park and enjoy the theming and ride the minor rides. It seems like a lot of money to just get in the parks. If that is the option, then the original plan of paying to get into the Magic Kingdom and paying for rides separately would make more sense.

 

[pittsburghmarc]

I guess they only send this to first time guests (or maybe only people on packages and not room-only reservations)?

You may be right. My family has only done packages with dining...free or not.

I think that might be a misconception. Opt out of what? The only opt out choice might be to stay home.

Do not take part in My Disney Experience. Simply go to the parks and tour/dine/shop as usual.

My guess is that the minority of guests will take part in My Disney Experience.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

My guess is that the minority of guests will take part in My Disney Experience.

Well, I don't know if that's true. I initially thought the entire idea was awful, but I'm coming around to the idea that we're going to have to do it if we don't want to ride everything standby and wait 2 hours for Soarin'. The real "losers" here are the locals, IMHO.

 

[scribega]

Since a lot of this is speculation I will add some as well...

If I regularly stay at a deluxe (which I don't) and Disney decides to give deluxe guests extra perks such as more fast passes, I am not sure I would want that. Why? Because my guess is that these perks will cost me. My already expensive $400 a night room will jump to $440 (or so) since now I am getting extra stuff. Disney will not say you are paying extra for that stuff but you are. They know the demand might be there then they will increase those room rates.

Value gets 3 fast passes, moderate gets 4 and deluxe gets 5. Lets see if we can nudge people up a level by dangling this perk in front of them. If they can increase their capacity at the deluxe and moderate resorts then their investment starts paying off.

 

[doconeill]

Since a lot of this is speculation I will add some as well...

If I regularly stay at a deluxe (which I don't) and Disney decides to give deluxe guests extra perks such as more fast passes, I am not sure I would want that. Why? Because my guess is that these perks will cost me. My already expensive $400 a night room will jump to $440 (or so) since now I am getting extra stuff. Disney will not say you are paying extra for that stuff but you are. They know the demand might be there then they will increase those room rates.

I don't think Disney would raise prices for this - at least not right away. If they do this, this is to entice people to book Deluxe rooms for people who don't currently - which means there is an excess of available rooms they want to fill right now.

If it succeeds, however, and the rooms are full, then I could see them raising the prices on the rooms.

 

[bcrook]

I don't think Disney would raise prices for this - at least not right away. If they do this, this is to entice people to book Deluxe rooms for people who don't currently - which means there is an excess of available rooms they want to fill right now.

If it succeeds, however, and the rooms are full, then I could see them raising the prices on the rooms.

And there is no additional cost for giving out FP+ it is like fake money (well no cost if one ignores the billion plus dollars to kick it off, but let's assume they recoup that through other ways).