Triumph Problems...cancellations/ pricing

[kcashner]

I was on the Magic when she lost one of her 5 engines. We were kept informed of the situation and made an early port departure as our speed back to Port Canaveral was slightly slowed. They explained that they had tried to do the repairs at the port of call, but this was not successful and the full repair would wait till the ship was at Port Canaveral.

I do realize that loss of a single engine is completely different from loss of all power. My point is that stuff happens on DCL ships as well, and they deal with each circumstance as best they can.

We've been told during a galley tour that the Magic always goes out with 10 days worth of food and supplies (at that time she did 7 night cruises). Again, that's great...but if they can't cook the food, having it on board doesn't help.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I was on the Magic when she lost one of her 5 engines. We were kept informed of the situation and made an early port departure as our speed back to Port Canaveral was slightly slowed. They explained that they had tried to do the repairs at the port of call, but this was not successful and the full repair would wait till the ship was at Port Canaveral.

I do realize that loss of a single engine is completely different from loss of all power. My point is that stuff happens on DCL ships as well, and they deal with each circumstance as best they can.

We've been told during a galley tour that the Magic always goes out with 10 days worth of food and supplies (at that time she did 7 night cruises). Again, that's great...but if they can't cook the food, having it on board doesn't help.

If the Truimph fire spotlighted anything, the food issue was a a big one!.

I am willing to bet every Line, if they didnt already have them, has arranged to have generators and/or cooking eqiupment available to drop to the ships if needed.

AKK

 

[Chee Chick]

Do you, FOR A FACT, know that DCL's safety standards are any higher than Carnival's? No, you don't. You are assuming. CCL operates 23 ships, Carnival Corporation operates 100. DCL operates 4 and until recently, only 2. When and if DCL has sailed the high seas for as many days as CCL and has done so without major incident, only then can you say for sure that it was anything other than the basic law of percentages that caused this.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion but assuming this couldn't happen on DCL is naive. Just as naive as any Carnival cheerleader saying right now that it isn't Carnival's fault. We don't know that, it might be.

I never expressed an opinion that I thought DCL has higher safety standard that other cruise lines. I never even mentioned DCL in my post. You are the one making assumptions here.

Maybe I should have stated to answer the OP's question that I don't think prices will go down based on this incident. People are still booking cruises (like my parents did yesterday). It is still a good value mostly and people have short term memory when it comes to these things.

 

[Tiger926]

Article in our paper today said the opposite about cancelled cruises. Multiple travel agents quoted who said they didn't get any calls to cancel this week, and in fact, booked cruises as normal.

This event is a rare occurrence, but Carnival Corp unfortunately doesn't have a good track record with this and the Costa disaster, so they may feel it a bit. Then again, some Carnival cruises are pretty darn cheap, so how much lower can they go?

Tiger

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

If this turns out to be just an accident, which could happen on ANY cruise ship anywhere, is she (and are we) still crazy? Exactly who does she think is going to be expertly "scrutinizing" their entire fleet? The USCG only has authority to routinely examine ships if they home port here and then only to verify compliance with international safety standards set by the IMO. Which are, by the way, not so great especially in regards to shipboard fire squad training.

A ship's flag nation is responsible for certifying the ship's compliance with safety standards. Where are your DCL ships flagged? Probably the Bahamas, same as Carnival Triumph.
Do you, FOR A FACT, know that DCL's safety standards are any higher than Carnival's? No, you don't. You are assuming. CCL operates 23 ships, Carnival Corporation operates 100. DCL operates 4 and until recently, only 2. When and if DCL has sailed the high seas for as many days as CCL and has done so without major incident, only then can you say for sure that it was anything other than the basic law of percentages that caused this.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion but assuming this couldn't happen on DCL is naive. Just as naive as any Carnival cheerleader saying right now that it isn't Carnival's fault. We don't know that, it might be.

The DCL vessels are indeed flagged in the Bahamas, but the truth be known, the Flags of Convience are more for tax purposes then anything else. All countries just sign off on the IMO and solas standards. Now if the lines just follow them or do better is up to them.

The USCG does have alot of responsiblity in US port and coastal waters to inspect vessels, they can actually tie a vessel to a dock with an email or phone call, but that is something that would not be done lightly. However if reqiured they can and have done it, passingers onboard and waiting!

The real inspections are done by Class and the P and I (protection and endemity insurance ) surveyors. They peroidodicaly (I never can spell!) do details inspections of vessel eqiupment, records, drills etc.


As to DCL vs Carnival...I just leave it with we disagree.

AKK

 

[disneyholic family]

After seeing the pictures and hearing the passingers accounts (not the medias), to continue and use the terms *so people were uncomfortable * to discribe the horrid conditions onboard the Triumph is the same as sticking your head in the sand......

Since the vessel was having contiunued problems that ended in a major fire, *relatively Safe* is not a term that can be responsibily used to discribe the trumphs condition at that time!

Please come into reality!

AKK

if the ship doesn't sink and no one dies, then it's really no big deal...
yes, people were uncomfortable...lifes a challenge...
they got their money back, and they can go on another 7 day cruise for free if they like....
i've heard many people who were on it, who are going to take carnival up on the free cruise.....

it's not the end of the world...the ship didn't sink....they weren't injured...
all's well that ends well...

big deal...

planes crash....do you fly?
planes crash because of negligent maintenance, bad pilot training, drunk pilots, bad pilots, bad equipment, old equipment, negligent air traffic controllers, and on and on and on and on and on...
do you still fly?

big deal...

people will continue to cruise despite this incident...

 

[ilovetexas]

The DCL vessels are indeed flagged in the Bahamas, but the truth be known, the Flags of Convience are more for tax purposes then anything else. All countries just sign off on the IMO and solas standards. Now if the lines just follow them or do better is up to them.

The USCG does have alot of responsiblity in US port and coastal waters to inspect vessels, they can actually tie a vessel to a dock with an email or phone call, but that is something that would not be done lightly. However if reqiured they can and have done it, passingers onboard and waiting!

The real inspections are done by Class and the P and I (protection and endemity insurance ) surveyors. They peroidodicaly (I never can spell!) do details inspections of vessel eqiupment, records, drills etc.


As to DCL vs Carnival...I just leave it with we disagree.

AKK

Yeah, too bad so many companies have to dodge our taxes they are so bad....but that's another subject altogether.

I've been reading more re: USCG, IMO, SOLAS, etc. Even if the USCG is finding problems, it sounds a lot like the CIA/FBI/alphabet soup problems with the 911 terrorists; people knew, they just didn't tell each other or anybody that could or would do anything about it. If that makes sense.

I like insurance companies about as much as I like lawyers but I think they (and the cruising public) will have the most impact on this. It hits their pockets when they have to pay out claims.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Yeah, too bad so many companies have to dodge our taxes they are so bad....but that's another subject altogether.

I've been reading more re: USCG, IMO, SOLAS, etc. Even if the USCG is finding problems, it sounds a lot like the CIA/FBI/alphabet soup problems with the 911 terrorists; people knew, they just didn't tell each other or anybody that could or would do anything about it. If that makes sense.

I like insurance companies about as much as I like lawyers but I think they (and the cruising public) will have the most impact on this. It hits their pockets when they have to pay out claims.

Problems with the IMO and solas is a old story, they are part of the United nations and can you think of a more political group? The maritime industry, all types of ships honestly just don't want more and expensive regulations.

To be honest, I really don't now if this will have long term effect or not, a PP noted and I agree, it's the 1st time cruisers who will most likely be the ones not return to Carnival or cruising in general.

However that said, the trials and reports on the Concordia will be in the news this summer and fall and add the newness of the Trumph issue.....it may have longer legs then some people think.


AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

if the ship doesn't sink and no one dies, then it's really no big deal...
yes, people were uncomfortable...lifes a challenge...
they got their money back, and they can go on another 7 day cruise for free if they like....
i've heard many people who were on it, who are going to take carnival up on the free cruise.....

it's not the end of the world...the ship didn't sink....they weren't injured...
all's well that ends well...

big deal...

planes crash....do you fly?
planes crash because of negligent maintenance, bad pilot training, drunk pilots, bad pilots, bad equipment, old equipment, negligent air traffic controllers, and on and on and on and on and on...
do you still fly?

big deal...

people will continue to cruise despite this incident...

I am sorry.......you really are living in your own little fantasy world, not whether they will cruise or not, but that you can actually type out *its no big deal*......you never have been at sea , not under command for 5 days in sewage......no heat, AC or hot food, sleeping on the deck. Not knowing when you will be in port and safe, feeling a ship sloppy rolling, wondering if that will effect it capizing.etc.etv,,,,and you think its not a big deal?????????

I can only pray your never in that position with your family and scared to death.....

AKK

PS and alot of people don't fly after major accidents.

 

[disneyholic family]

I am sorry.......you really are living in a fantasy world.......AKK

which fantasy world would that be?

the world where i had to fly out of houston in the midst of a hurricane and the regional airline i was on actually took off, when the major airline pilot at the gate next to ours refused to fly.

and why did that happen?

because on that major airline, the pilot is allowed to decide not to fly and his pay isn't docked..
while on the regional airline i was on (associated with that same major airline), the pilot will not be paid if he doesn't fly (assuming the airport is still open).
So guess what? He took off in the hurricane.
and we, his passengers, took off with him (as did a few of the other pilot's passengers, who managed to snag the last few seats on our flight).

pretty dangerous policies running that particular regional airline...
and until there's a fatal crash, it will continue that way...
so as long as their luck holds out, no one will be the wiser....
(since people assume the lack of an accident means that the skies are safe...but they're not)..

do you fly?

 

[disneyholic family]

I am sorry.......you really are living in your own little fantasy world, not whether they will cruise or not, but that you can actually type out *its no big deal*......you never have been at sea , not under command for 5 days in sewage......no heat, AC or hot food, sleeping on the deck. Not knowing when you will be in port and safe, feeling a ship sloppy rolling, wondering if that will effect it capizing.etc.etv,,,,and you think its not a big deal?????????

I can only pray your never in that position with your family and scared to death.....

AKK

PS and alot of people don't fly after major accidents.

you updated your post while i was responding to your original

as i said, all's well that ends well...

i live in a very dangerous world....big deal....

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

you updated your post while i was responding to your original

as i said, all's well that ends well...

i live in a very dangerous world....big deal....

I did indeed add to it. my pardon.


Who siad its over?


how many are going to be sick?.....

How many are going to take along time to emotionally work though the exprience.

how many kids are going to have nightmares?

yes we live in a dangerous world and yes I fly ........less then years ago (work change)

Just becuase we live in a dangerous world does not mean what those folks went though is *no big deal*


As I said before, I hope you never go though that with your kids.............the exprience maybe a bit more intense/severe then when your sitting at a computer.


AKK

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Time will tell. But remember, the Magic and Wonder were built in the same shipyard as the Triumph and both are older. So if there is a design flaw, it is with the maker of the ship, not the cruise line that owns it.
As I have posted in other threads, I don' think any other cruise line could have handled this any differently as far as getting the ship back to shore. Now, you certainly could argue that the support families back on land got form Carnival during the ordeal might have been handled different.

I don't even think of these issues as design flaws. If that were the case it would be happening to every CL that has had a ship built at that ship yard. Also these are not even fairly new ships so if it were a design flaw it would have appeared sooner in the life of the ship; a "recall" so to speak, using a new car analogy.
I think of it directly as lack of maintenance that is causing so many problems for Carnival. With any company I deal with, I don't just look that a problem happens, but also look at how they handle it.
In this case, it was not handled well.

I think Concordia affected DCL also. In 13 Disney cruises, April 2012 was our 1st and only upgrade. This should have been a packed sailing since kids were off from school that week. We flew to MCO on Easter Sunday and sailed that Tuesday, & disembarked Sunday. We were given the upgrade even before our PIF date. I was shocked.

 

[truck1]

Makes sense. So, a "propulsion problem" isn't necessarily synonymous with poor maintenance. Spare parts for cruise ships aren't just lying around; I'd imagine once a problem is discovered, they may have to have parts (or total systems) manufactured and/or flown in. I don't think people realize how often this happens, either. I know Crystal recently had a software glitch that caused a propulsion problem; they had to fly someone in to fix it.

I'm not saying that this wasn't part of the current problem, I'm just saying that the media is making unfounded accusations. Correlation doesn't prove causation. The USCG report on the Splendor fire was released within a couple of months of the fire; I wish everyone would just hold their horses and see what's what. I assure you that if this is stupid human error again, I won't set foot on another CCL ship until Gerry Cahill is fired.

Correct propulsion problems could be anything from a damaged blade to a loss of an engine to bad fuel to computer issues. Typically though if it was poor maint you would a pattern of mechanical issue on the same ship for more then a year with the ship idled. I think what got Triumph was bad luck or a electrical issue that got more then 1 system such as an electrical spike that did underlying damage that is was not readily apparent until now.

 

[truck1]

The design issue of the Triumph is that all "eggs"/generators were located in one "basket"/room. One fire wiped out all power.

A better design would be to put "eggs"/generators in seperate fire-proof areas of the ship.

Do Disney ships follow the same design as the Triumph?

-Paul

Nope. She has 2 separate engine rooms. Forward and aft. Or 1 and 2 depends on who you ask. What its looking like is that there was only 1 power distribution panel and that was somehow affected. If it wasn't fried a lot could be as a precaution. On the assumption that there is only 1 panel and not 2 it would explain a lot.

 

[truck1]

This is just me but the news is going to sensatiinalize anything to make things look worse then what they are. There going to find the to'ed passengers and not the ones that said we had 5 meals a day and slept with the balcony doors open. They are just interested in getting you to watch and there for make themselves look better. Ever notice most disasters you see on affect alot of people and not a bldg inspector that found a flaw before a bldg came down?

 

[jilljill]

Moving this to the community boards where the rest of the Triumph threads are now located.

 

[mdsoccermom]

Except that DCL has custom designed all 4 of their vessels. That is one reason the Magic was delayed so long.

The system in question designed my the yard is the main electrical platforms, and the back up or lack of back up safety engine room panels which were used on the trumph class vessels and was beefed up to be used on the QMII and the Spendour class. As to who owns the problem the lines do!....Since there seems to be repat probems, the line was the responsiblity to correc the probelm or lay the ships up as unsafe.

It is my undersatanding that the QMll has the first fire where the issue was found and the correction in design made. The Spendour fire was also related, but the correction had not been made to the Splendour. The prelimonary USCG report I was told (I did not see the actual report), was questionoing this.

Right now we have NO idea what the cause of the fire was..........only that the Triumphand the Destney has had mechcanical/propulsion problems since January. We really have to wait to find the cause before we point fingers.

AKK

The Destiny? The Destiny is not even in service now. It's undergoing a massive refit and will reemerge this spring as the Carnival Sunshine.

 

[hereyago]

Only 20 percent of people have cruised. However,those are many repeat cruisers. As for the Triumph,even though they have hsd to cancel due to her having now to be repaired,there are people early booking to cruise on her when repaired because they think the service will be higher(even though the stranded cruisers commended the staff) people think Carnival will give them more bang for their buck according to the news the other night.i doubt that DCL will lower their price. This was not a cae if it sinking or terrorist attack.

 

[RRB]

I found this information on a couple of different websites.....

Disney Magic –
Number of Main Engine(s): 5
Main Engine builder: Sultzer
Model: Z40


Carnival Triumph -
Number Main of engines: 6
Main Engine builder; Sultzer
Model Z40 (2 different sizes)

Interesting if it is correct.