Triumph Problems...cancellations/ pricing

[truck1]

Well, I am a little amused at the idea that Magic and Wonder were made at the same shipyard as the Triumph and therefore one might have to worry about the Magic and the Wonder having the same issue.

Carnival kept Triumph sailing even after mechanical problems in the weeks prior to this sailing. Triumph was clearly not well maintained.

Suppose we each buy a Chrysler built the same day in the same factory. Now suppose that you maintain your car with oil changes, tire rotations and replacements, replace worn belts and hoses, replace the engine's air filter. Meanwhile, I never do a thing to my car except add gas as needed. When my car fails, you don't have to worry that your car is going to fail too.

Triumph was built in Monfalcone Italy. The Magic and Wonder were built in Marghera. Same builder 2 different yards.Triumph was launched in between the Magic and Wonders Maiden.

 

[ilovetexas]

Well, I am a little amused at the idea that Magic and Wonder were made at the same shipyard as the Triumph and therefore one might have to worry about the Magic and the Wonder having the same issue.

Carnival kept Triumph sailing even after mechanical problems in the weeks prior to this sailing. Triumph was clearly not well maintained.

Suppose we each buy a Chrysler built the same day in the same factory. Now suppose that you maintain your car with oil changes, tire rotations and replacements, replace worn belts and hoses, replace the engine's air filter. Meanwhile, I never do a thing to my car except add gas as needed. When my car fails, you don't have to worry that your car is going to fail too.

Not sure that is accurate. From what I've seen, the mechanical problems on the Triumph were propulsion issues. There are brand new ships that have those problems, the Celebrity Reflection comes to mind. Celebrity has plans to fix the issue, but sails in the mean time and just plans to get into some ports later, as travel takes longer. A LOT of ships experience these problems and I don't think there is a sense of urgency to fix them until they impact actually being able to get from port to port.

Now, this is where Tonka's Skipper may have to help us out, as I don't know the difference between propulsion systems vs engines, etc. I assumed they were the same thing. Regardless, if Celebrity has ongoing propulsion issues and isn't hiding them and is planning on fixing them, I wouldn't imagine they are a concern for a FIRE. Just slower travel. Kinda like the difference between driving a Toyota Corolla and a Ford Mustang. Both good cars but 0-60 mph and top end speeds are VERY different.

 

[kcashner]

If DCL has trouble filling cruises for specific dates, specials and or price reductions will be available. If prices are reduced before the penalty period starts, you'll be given the better rate UPON REQUEST (not automatically). In this case, it helps to have a TA that tracks all rates on their bookings. Specials may be available to new bookings only.

There will not be a way to track whether decreased demand for DCL cruises night have been due to the Triumph issue, dates, ports, or whatever. Whenever a cruise isn't filling, it can be a good time to take advantage of specials.

Upgrades...the pixie dust lands where it will. Obviously. there are more upgrades available (free or for a price) when the ship isn't nearly full. Again, there are many reasons why a given date may not fill.

 

[disneyholic family]

the concordia sank, the triumph didn't...
so people were uncomfortable, but the ship didn't sink despite an engine fire..
if anything, it showed that ships are relatively safe - certainly vs airplanes....
i'd love to float around in an airplane without any engines...not....

i doubt the triumph will have any impact at all other than a short term impact on carnival itself..

 

[truck1]

Not sure that is accurate. From what I've seen, the mechanical problems on the Triumph were propulsion issues. There are brand new ships that have those problems, the Celebrity Reflection comes to mind. Celebrity has plans to fix the issue, but sails in the mean time and just plans to get into some ports later, as travel takes longer. A LOT of ships experience these problems and I don't think there is a sense of urgency to fix them until they impact actually being able to get from port to port.

Now, this is where Tonka's Skipper may have to help us out, as I don't know the difference between propulsion systems vs engines, etc. I assumed they were the same thing. Regardless, if Celebrity has ongoing propulsion issues and isn't hiding them and is planning on fixing them, I wouldn't imagine they are a concern for a FIRE. Just slower travel. Kinda like the difference between driving a Toyota Corolla and a Ford Mustang. Both good cars but 0-60 mph and top end speeds are VERY different.

Hers basically how it works. A given ship has several diesel engines that are connected to generators/alternators. They are linked to a panel that distributes the power throughout the ship. How many and how big are based on ship size and electrical load. A given ship uses about 80% power to the electric engines(azipods or shaft driven. In either case the drive motors are separate and different from the ships main engines/generators) that actually move the ship. If say 1 engine blows a generator for example the ship loses that power amount. So instead of the ship generating say 10mw of power its may now only have say 8. If the ships total power usage is say 9mw the ship will brown out certain things and won't have the power available to reach normal cruising speed and still provide power for the hotel portion.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

the concordia sank, the triumph didn't...
so people were uncomfortable, but the ship didn't sink despite an engine fire..
if anything, it showed that ships are relatively safe - certainly vs airplanes....
i'd love to float around in an airplane without any engines...not....

i doubt the triumph will have any impact at all other than a short term impact on carnival itself..

After seeing the pictures and hearing the passingers accounts (not the medias), to continue and use the terms *so people were uncomfortable * to discribe the horrid conditions onboard the Triumph is the same as sticking your head in the sand......

Since the vessel was having contiunued problems that ended in a major fire, *relatively Safe* is not a term that can be responsibily used to discribe the trumphs condition at that time!

Please come into reality!

AKK

 

[lbgraves]

I don't know if they had anything to do with Concordia, but I know I went on the first Eastern on the Fantasy and from what I heard ship was not really full, but I don't think it had to do with Concordia, maybe some, but not all of it

I was on the fifth Fantasy sailing and it wasn't full, either. We were bumped to a higher category than we booked. I don't think it had ANYTHING to do with Concordia.

^^^^ ITA with this! The MV wasn't full either. The first few cruises on the Fantasy were not booked to capacity so they could get the crew up to par with the larger guest numbers. It had nothing to do with the Concordia. I don't remember prices for future cruises on DCL dropping at all at that time. The only thing I remember being affected was the announcement for the next round of cruises being released. The Triumph was no where near the severity of the Concordia so I wouldn't expect it to affect DCL's prices at all.

 

[keri125]

Ok, I have always gone through life thinking that I have no real phobias. I'm not scared of flying, bugs/spiders don't bother me, I love my son's snake as much as he does, etc etc. However, over the course of the past few years I have discovered that I really am afraid of LARGE ships. Not boats - we live next to a large lake and I love going out on the boats, but the large ships like the cruise ships. Now, I have never been on a large ship (single parent on a social worker's salary! LOL) so maybe if it did happen I would find that it's not so bad. All these pictures and descriptions, however, make me shiver to my bones!! I honestly think I would rather go and do anything else for a vacation than take a cruise. So I am doing my part to lower prices for those of you that love to cruise. You're welcome!! ROTFL

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Not sure that is accurate. From what I've seen, the mechanical problems on the Triumph were propulsion issues. There are brand new ships that have those problems, the Celebrity Reflection comes to mind. Celebrity has plans to fix the issue, but sails in the mean time and just plans to get into some ports later, as travel takes longer. A LOT of ships experience these problems and I don't think there is a sense of urgency to fix them until they impact actually being able to get from port to port.

Now, this is where Tonka's Skipper may have to help us out, as I don't know the difference between propulsion systems vs engines, etc. I assumed they were the same thing. Regardless, if Celebrity has ongoing propulsion issues and isn't hiding them and is planning on fixing them, I wouldn't imagine they are a concern for a FIRE. Just slower travel. Kinda like the difference between driving a Toyota Corolla and a Ford Mustang. Both good cars but 0-60 mph and top end speeds are VERY different.

OK....remember I am a deckie, not a engineer.........and Truck1, I welcome your help here.

Most of the cruise ships today are *Diesel Electric* systems. In short you have massive diesel engines, turning large generators. Some of these generators feed electrical power to the vessel for operation and hotel services. Most of them power large electric motors that turn the shafts and porpellars or the Pods which turn the propellars.

So you can see everything is tied together. You can have a problem with 1 area and not effect others or effect the whole system.


You are correct not all problems reqiure repairs right away. The system may work safely at a slower speed. Other parts may have a problem, and you try to keep going, hoping for no major issues.

There are some problems you just handle onboard. There are other problems that reqiure you advise port authorties, the USCG (in US waters) and your Class, the class being the company who inspects and over sees your vessel to ensure it is being maintained and repaired properly.

This all comes back to the fact we don't yet have any real details on just what happened on the Trumph.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Hers basically how it works. A given ship has several diesel engines that are connected to generators/alternators. They are linked to a panel that distributes the power throughout the ship. How many and how big are based on ship size and electrical load. A given ship uses about 80% power to the electric engines(azipods or shaft driven. In either case the drive motors are separate and different from the ships main engines/generators) that actually move the ship. If say 1 engine blows a generator for example the ship loses that power amount. So instead of the ship generating say 10mw of power its may now only have say 8. If the ships total power usage is say 9mw the ship will brown out certain things and won't have the power available to reach normal cruising speed and still provide power for the hotel portion.

Missed this........

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Well here is the first hint:


As reported by CBS News, Coast Guard Marine Investigator Patrick Cuty said the investigation has already revealed the ship's engine is intact and "probably operable." Therefore, he surmised, the fire did not originate with the engine itself. Investigators will continue to work to determine where the fire started.


AKK

 

[Rogillio]

Back to the OP question...I don't anyone knows yet. One thing for sure,if someone was 'on the fence' being leery of cruise ships, I'm pretty sure the are no longer on the fence. Some folks will believe this is a CCL systemic problem and avoid CCL. But i think for most of us, we will realize this is a very rare experience and it won't effect their cruising plans.

I think time will tell if this effects pricing. I read an article yesterday about the impact of social media will have as people start posting pix from the cruise. I saw a pix yesterday of buckets in the bathroom with plastic bags.

 

[ilovetexas]

Hers basically how it works. A given ship has several diesel engines that are connected to generators/alternators. They are linked to a panel that distributes the power throughout the ship. How many and how big are based on ship size and electrical load. A given ship uses about 80% power to the electric engines(azipods or shaft driven. In either case the drive motors are separate and different from the ships main engines/generators) that actually move the ship. If say 1 engine blows a generator for example the ship loses that power amount. So instead of the ship generating say 10mw of power its may now only have say 8. If the ships total power usage is say 9mw the ship will brown out certain things and won't have the power available to reach normal cruising speed and still provide power for the hotel portion.

Makes sense. So, a "propulsion problem" isn't necessarily synonymous with poor maintenance. Spare parts for cruise ships aren't just lying around; I'd imagine once a problem is discovered, they may have to have parts (or total systems) manufactured and/or flown in. I don't think people realize how often this happens, either. I know Crystal recently had a software glitch that caused a propulsion problem; they had to fly someone in to fix it.

I'm not saying that this wasn't part of the current problem, I'm just saying that the media is making unfounded accusations. Correlation doesn't prove causation. The USCG report on the Splendor fire was released within a couple of months of the fire; I wish everyone would just hold their horses and see what's what. I assure you that if this is stupid human error again, I won't set foot on another CCL ship until Gerry Cahill is fired.

 

[pjacobi]

Most of the cruise ships today are *Diesel Electric* systems. In short you have massive diesel engines, turning large generators. Some of these generators feed electrical power to the vessel for operation and hotel services. Most of them power large electric motors that turn the shafts and porpellars or the Pods which turn the propellars.

The design issue of the Triumph is that all "eggs"/generators were located in one "basket"/room. One fire wiped out all power.

A better design would be to put "eggs"/generators in seperate fire-proof areas of the ship.

Do Disney ships follow the same design as the Triumph?


-Paul

 

[ilovetexas]

Back to the OP question...I don't anyone knows yet. One thing for sure,if someone was 'on the fence' being leery of cruise ships, I'm pretty sure the are no longer on the fence. Some folks will believe this is a CCL systemic problem and avoid CCL. But i think for most of us, we will realize this is a very rare experience and it won't effect their cruising plans.

I think time will tell if this effects pricing. I read an article yesterday about the impact of social media will have as people start posting pix from the cruise. I saw a pix yesterday of buckets in the bathroom with plastic bags.

I've actually been trying to take the OP's question more seriously and since I like to argue with you about economics , I've been trying to determine what the impact would be of a shift in the demand curve (to the left). There are too many variables to decide. Would people just be upset with/afraid of CCL? Carnival Corp? All cruise lines? If it's just new cruisers, that's going to have the biggest impact on CCL. Also, it's not like the industry can (in the short run), reduce output to avoid lowering prices.

All facts considered, due to no loss of life, I don't think this has any lasting impact. Cruise fares have been going up for years as people have discovered cruising and I don't think that's going to change. Then again, I hated my economics classes so chances are I missed an important lecture that would have answered that question.

 

[hgon76]

I was on the fifth Fantasy sailing and it wasn't full, either. We were bumped to a higher category than we booked. I don't think it had ANYTHING to do with Concordia. The Fantasy launched a few weeks before school let out, we booked it then on purpose. Even parents who will take their kids out of school for a cruise (myself included when mine were younger) won't do it at certain times of year; the first couple of weeks and the last couple of weeks of school are usually off limits.

Those last weeks in April and first few in May are full of field days, parties, testing, etc. On other lines, it's a great time to cruise sans kids. Most people wait until school is out, which is why I love to cruise in early/mid May. I'm cruising during spring break this year because I'll be in Cuba in May.

It was school spring break vacation for us & most of the East Coast the week we went. Airfare was @ a premium. And it was the most expensive week for April when we booked it.

 

[Rogillio]

I've actually been trying to take the OP's question more seriously and since I like to argue with you about economics , I've been trying to determine what the impact would be of a shift in the demand curve (to the left). There are too many variables to decide. Would people just be upset with/afraid of CCL? Carnival Corp? All cruise lines? If it's just new cruisers, that's going to have the biggest impact on CCL. Also, it's not like the industry can (in the short run), reduce output to avoid lowering prices.

All facts considered, due to no loss of life, I don't think this has any lasting impact. Cruise fares have been going up for years as people have discovered cruising and I don't think that's going to change. Then again, I hated my economics classes so chances are I missed an important lecture that would have answered that question.

Well I'm an electrical engineer not an economist so I'm opining based on gut feel.....and probably wrong.

 

[FJS961]

We had little (to no) interest in a Carnival cruise as it was ... now, ... fuggedaboutit!!

 

[Chee Chick]

My parents booked a Carnival cruise out of New Orleans just yesterday. I told my mom that she was crazy. Her response was that she thinks this is probably the best time to go since there will be a lot more scrutiny of their entire fleet. I hope she is right. I have a feeling many others feel the same way. Especially the die hard Carnival fans.

 

[ilovetexas]

My parents booked a Carnival cruise out of New Orleans just yesterday. I told my mom that she was crazy. Her response was that she thinks this is probably the best time to go since there will be a lot more scrutiny of their entire fleet. I hope she is right. I have a feeling many others feel the same way. Especially the die hard Carnival fans.

If this turns out to be just an accident, which could happen on ANY cruise ship anywhere, is she (and are we) still crazy? Exactly who does she think is going to be expertly "scrutinizing" their entire fleet? The USCG only has authority to routinely examine ships if they home port here and then only to verify compliance with international safety standards set by the IMO. Which are, by the way, not so great especially in regards to shipboard fire squad training.

A ship's flag nation is responsible for certifying the ship's compliance with safety standards. Where are your DCL ships flagged? Probably the Bahamas, same as Carnival Triumph.

Do you, FOR A FACT, know that DCL's safety standards are any higher than Carnival's? No, you don't. You are assuming. CCL operates 23 ships, Carnival Corporation operates 100. DCL operates 4 and until recently, only 2. When and if DCL has sailed the high seas for as many days as CCL and has done so without major incident, only then can you say for sure that it was anything other than the basic law of percentages that caused this.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion but assuming this couldn't happen on DCL is naive. Just as naive as any Carnival cheerleader saying right now that it isn't Carnival's fault. We don't know that, it might be.