I think my friend is raising her own special snowflake

[Baliezer]

Never did I say anything about neglecting my kids, or not feeding them so they wasted away and failed to thrive! My goodness people can make such stretches. I said that I taught them to put themselves to sleep from the time they were born. Did they cry before they fell asleep, yes in the beginning. Did I hug and rock and cuddle them all throughout the day, yes. Did I feed them well on a schedule, yes. They both learned to put themselves to sleep and back to sleep if the awoke by 1-2 months of age. It was wonderful for both of us, everyone was well rested, well fed, and able to enjoy our time together during the day. Some parents just seem to think that they have to go running every time they hear the baby fuss. It makes for tired cranky parents and babies.

I hope I am misunderstanding your post. Are you saying you let your newborn cry itself to sleep?

 

[Granny square]

Making a newborn CIO is neglect. I wouldn't make a newborn kitten go the night without food and comfort let alone an infant. I have has people referred for just such behavior by cps. It isn't. Parenting choice.

Allowing an older baby to CIO is a different animal. I am not saying that is neglect. Read carefully next time.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Never did I say anything about neglecting my kids, or not feeding them so they wasted away and failed to thrive! My goodness people can make such stretches. I said that I taught them to put themselves to sleep from the time they were born. Did they cry before they fell asleep, yes in the beginning. Did I hug and rock and cuddle them all throughout the day, yes. Did I feed them well on a schedule, yes. They both learned to put themselves to sleep and back to sleep if the awoke by 1-2 months of age. It was wonderful for both of us, everyone was well rested, well fed, and able to enjoy our time together during the day. Some parents just seem to think that they have to go running every time they hear the baby fuss. It makes for tired cranky parents and babies.

Okay--so at what age did you place a child in a crib at a set time, having fed that child at a set time, and not return to the child if s/he cried then (or later upon waking) until the next, set by you, feeding or waking time?

 

[ilovefh]

For being pregnant and frustarted you are very gracious! I am a mother of 2 and raise other peoples children for a living (I own a daycare and work daily with infants-preschool). I can understand your frustration!

I've read the whole thread and wanted to comment on this quote in particular.

My son is at an in home daycare from 7:30-4:30. He wakes up at the earliest 15 mins before we leave for daycare and goes to bed at 8. So that means I spend around 4 hours a day with him 5 days per week while she has him 9 hours a day. Then he's awake around 12 hours each weekend day.. So she sees him 45 hours per week and I see him 44 or so hours per week.

While I am his mother and ultimately responsible for raising him, I appreciate that she is helping me raise him. I'd much rather someone who is like that than someone who thought they were just "watching" him.

I'm not sure why people get all upset by this comment. The fact is I'd hope anyone who is in contact with my kid for that long knows they are effecting his outcome and saw it like they were raising their own.

It's not a bash on working parents. Some of us have to work, it's just a fact of life. I, thankfully, have just accepted the fact that my daycare provider has a HUGE influence on my child and I'm not offended by it. We tried working our finances and insurance every which way for one of us to stay home and it just doesn't work. And that's okay!

 

[Granny square]

If it wasn't meant as a cut to parents it wouldn't be a "private joke."

I worked summers in daycares and preschools for several years. Most of the people working adored the kids and realized that our job was to set goals and work towards them, and to support the family's raising of a child. There were some who felt that they were a greater or better "proxy parent" than the parent and made it clear by those types of comments. These weren't bad parents or the parents I speak of in my posts re neglect and such. This was pre career.

This poster may not be anything like that but it is the kind of dig that brings defensive reactions.

 

[jodifla]

Making a newborn CIO is neglect. I wouldn't make a newborn kitten go the night without food and comfort let alone an infant. I have has people referred for just such behavior by cps. It isn't. Parenting choice.

Allowing an older baby to CIO is a different animal. I am not saying that is neglect. Read carefully next time.

Actually, helping a newborn to figure out sleep cycles and the ability to put themselves back to sleep is just good parenting.

Everybody in my household was getting a good nights sleep at two months.

This is different than true CIO. My son had reflux and had to be held upright for 20 minutes after he ate. He often fell asleep then, and when I put him back to bed, would wake. But instead of walking around with him all night, I just patted him and hung out with him a bit, and let him get back to sleep on his own. Yes, he cried a bit. But he wasn't remotely "neglected." What a word to throw around.

We were well on our way to long stretches of sleep with this method when my husband went out of town, and I simply didn't wake up when he cried. This sort of sealed the deal, and he learned to sleep through the night after that.

I've read that single parents often have better sleepers because they can't afford to run at every single cry.

Oh, and if your child gets enough food during the day, they don't need to eat all night long.

 

[Acklander]

Actually, helping a newborn to figure out sleep cycles and the ability to put themselves back to sleep is just good parenting.

Everybody in my household was getting a good nights sleep at two months.

This is different than true CIO. My son had reflux and had to be held upright for 20 minutes after he ate. He often fell asleep then, and when I put him back to bed, would wake. But instead of walking around with him all night, I just patted him and hung out with him a bit, and let him get back to sleep on his own. Yes, he cried a bit. But he wasn't remotely "neglected." What a word to throw around.

We were well on our way to long stretches of sleep with this method when my husband went out of town, and I simply didn't wake up when he cried. This sort of sealed the deal, and he learned to sleep through the night after that.

I've read that single parents often have better sleepers because they can't afford to run at every single cry.

Oh, and if your child gets enough food during the day, they don't need to eat all night long.

Infants need to eat more often, especially if breast feeding. Personally, we chose to co-sleep. When he woke at night, he would just latch on to nurse and we'd both doze off together so I didn't miss out on much sleep.

 

[luvsJack]

Making a newborn CIO is neglect. I wouldn't make a newborn kitten go the night without food and comfort let alone an infant. I have has people referred for just such behavior by cps. It isn't. Parenting choice.

Allowing an older baby to CIO is a different animal. I am not saying that is neglect. Read carefully next time.

I can't imagine CPS getting involved in true CIO. If the child is happy, nourished and thriving--its NOT neglect. True neglect can take a horrible toll on a child.

If it wasn't meant as a cut to parents it wouldn't be a "private joke."

I worked summers in daycares and preschools for several years. Most of the people working adored the kids and realized that our job was to set goals and work towards them, and to support the family's raising of a child. There were some who felt that they were a greater or better "proxy parent" than the parent and made it clear by those types of comments. These weren't bad parents or the parents I speak of in my posts re neglect and such. This was pre career.

This poster may not be anything like that but it is the kind of dig that brings defensive reactions.

Private jokes are not always meant to cut anyone. We had similar private jokes when I was in child care because so many "holier than thou" folks accused our parents of letting us raise their children. We also had inside jokes about driving a Mercedes because too many people seem to think we were getting rich from working in child care.

It wasn't meant to cut anyone, but its kept as a private joke because others (OBVIOUSLY) may take offense.

 

[nchulka]

Maybe those who think I was neglecting my babies have a different idea of what CIO means. CIO did not mean that I put them to bed at night and didn't feed them all night long. I guess if parents are trying CIO with an older child, closer to a year, that would be what it would mean, letting them cry themselves back to sleep when they wake up. I don't know I never dealt with a child older than 6 weeks waking up at night. That is NOT what I did with a newborn. What I did was have the baby fall back asleep on their own. Of course I fed them them in the middle of the night. After feeding and burping and changing I would lay them back down. Sometimes they fell right asleep, sometimes they cried for a few minutes and then fell asleep, sometimes they would cry longer (15-20 minutes) then I would stand next to them and rub their tummy or their forehead. If they continued to cry and cry, I would pick them up and settle them down with rocking or walking, but still I would lay them back down before they were asleep. By almost 4 weeks DD was no longer waking up for an overnight feeding, DS took a little longer and was 5 1/2 weeks. During the day I worked hard from the beginning to establish a routine of eat, play, sleep. This is very different from most mothers who feed their child to sleep thus establishing a cycle of feed, sleep, play. By doing it this way they got a full feeding no falling asleep while eating. We would then cuddle, play, etc. and then I would lay them down for a nap, making sure they were changed first. I have 2 VERY different children, they don't look alike or act alike in any way, they are complete opposites of each other. This method worked great for both of them. Instead of being a frazzled, overwhelmed, sleep-deprived mom, they had a nice relaxed, well-rested mom who had plenty of time to cuddle and play

 

[clutter]

Maybe those who think I was neglecting my babies have a different idea of what CIO means. CIO did not mean that I put them to bed at night and didn't feed them all night long. I guess if parents are trying CIO with an older child, closer to a year, that would be what it would mean, letting them cry themselves back to sleep when they wake up. I don't know I never dealt with a child older than 6 weeks waking up at night. That is NOT what I did with a newborn. What I did was have the baby fall back asleep on their own. Of course I fed them them in the middle of the night. After feeding and burping and changing I would lay them back down. Sometimes they fell right asleep, sometimes they cried for a few minutes and then fell asleep, sometimes they would cry longer (15-20 minutes) then I would stand next to them and rub their tummy or their forehead. If they continued to cry and cry, I would pick them up and settle them down with rocking or walking, but still I would lay them back down before they were asleep. By almost 4 weeks DD was no longer waking up for an overnight feeding, DS took a little longer and was 5 1/2 weeks.

Ok, but that's not CIO. I think you say you did this to project the tough, no-nonsense parent. My dd was sleeping thru the night (10pm to 5am) by 5 or 6 weeks. She was, still is, a good sleeper. As long as she'd had enough to eat during the day, she'd sleep for a good 7 hour stretch, and only woke during the night if she was sick. I had absolutely nothing to do with it. (Except maybe genetically, lol.)

 

[scoutie]

I'm not sure why people get all upset by this comment. The fact is I'd hope anyone who is in contact with my kid for that long knows they are effecting his outcome and saw it like they were raising their own.

You're right in that we all want our daycare providers to care for our children as though they were there own. Maybe it's a semantics thing. WOHM hear, "Don't you want to stay home and raise your own kids?" When the poster had giggled about "raising" working mother's children, it insinuated that the daycare is taking over instilling values and beliefs, and the parent was hands off.

Of course WOHMs want our daycare providers to have a positive influence on our children. Just as the teachers that teach my children during the day aren't raising them....my daycare providers aren't raising my kids. They are loving them, teaching them and caring for them, but not raising.

That's why I got upset over the flippant "ha ha....isn't this a funny private joke as we roll our eyes at these poor WOHMs" comment.

Again....maybe it's just a semantics thing, but the comment that was made was made to be flippant. It wasn't made in a kind "we are working as as team to partner in raising your child" way, and that's why so many of us got upset.

The comment implies that parenting starts at 7:30 and ends at 3:30. I parent all day (and night) long. Raising doesn't happen between the hours that a mother works.

 

[hsmamato2]

My son is at an in home daycare from 7:30-4:30. He wakes up at the earliest 15 mins before we leave for daycare and goes to bed at 8. So that means I spend around 4 hours a day with him 5 days per week while she has him 9 hours a day. Then he's awake around 12 hours each weekend day.. So she sees him 45 hours per week and I see him 44 or so hours per week.

While I am his mother and ultimately responsible for raising him, I appreciate that she is helping me raise him. I'd much rather someone who is like that than someone who thought they were just "watching" him.

I'm not sure why people get all upset by this comment. The fact is I'd hope anyone who is in contact with my kid for that long knows they are effecting his outcome and saw it like they were raising their own.
!

Now this sounds like one balanced Mama

 

[DisneyATlast]

Not rushing to pick up a crying baby that is well fed, warm, dry, not ill, etc. is considered neglect? No wonder the term "snowflake" was born here as the OP mentioned. The word "sheltered" comes to mind also.

 

[scoutie]

Not rushing to pick up a crying baby that is well fed, warm, dry, not ill, etc. is considered neglect?

This isn't what CIO traditionally means at all. CIO in two of the most popular pro-CIO books means that you leave the baby in a dark room to cry (even if he throws up) until they put themself back to sleep.

Sometimes even if a baby's physical needs are met, they still need emotional comfort.


This is why I (and many others) asked for clarification.


As an aside, moms who don't let their kids CIO, aren't raising sheltered children. I never let my kids CIO and they are independent, well-traveled, well-adjusted, non-entitled children. They look out for others, and are well-rounded as well as kind.

Nobody would call them sheltered.

These boards have made me feel really on edge and sad the last couple of days (my fault...just a sensitive person, I guess). I spent a lot of time last night worrying about newborns crying for their moms. I see that it's not what was meant by CIO, but it cost me a night of sleep. I had to get out of the social work field for the same reason. Maybe my life is a happy little bubble with like-minded friends, coworkers, family, and internet friends I've made on other boards, but I don't think this forum is for me. It's been a time suck and a negative force. I'm going to take my leave! i'm not saying this to "make a grand exit"...just explaining why I'm not back to debate. I wish everyone the best.

 

[nchulka]

Scottie, I'm very sorry if I cost you a nights sleep. I guess I never looked into what CIO actually meant since my kids both slept through the night so early. I always assumed it meant what I did, lay them down awake and let them fall asleep themselves, instead of rocking them to sleep. Of course it would be very wrong to let a newborn go all night without food or comfort. I'm sorry if I was not clear yesterday.

 

[DisneyATlast]

Nobody would call them sheltered.

I actually had the parents in mind, not the children.

I've seen neglected children. Anyone who thinks a baby who is allowed to cry vs being held at every whimper is "neglected" probably hasn't experienced a neglected child.

 

[Granny square]

Not rushing to pick up a crying baby that is well fed, warm, dry, not ill, etc. is considered neglect? No wonder the term "snowflake" was born here as the OP mentioned. The word "sheltered" comes to mind also.

I believe people have specified newborns? And ignoring their cries during the night. You believe that is ok? We aren't meant to be able to shut out their cries. It isn't normal.

An older baby who had a wee bit of understanding about day and night, wet and dry and hungry or not is a whole other issue. Mine all slept through the night by 6 months or so. At 9 months or so we let our oldest cry it out after a time if illness that whacked out his sleep.

My kids have traveled the world with and without me. I'd say well adjusted...not sheltered. It is attitudes like yours however that feed the mommy wars. I bet you have a lot of little snide "private jokes" about your clients.

 

[mjkacmom]

This isn't what CIO traditionally means at all. CIO in two of the most popular pro-CIO books means that you leave the baby in a dark room to cry (even if he throws up) until they put themself back to sleep. ETA - if the child vomits, the parent comes in, cleans up baby and crib, pats the back, and starts again.

Obviously, you've never read these books. The longest the child is ever left to CIO is 15 minutes. And even that is gradual! Personally, I think that if a child hasn't developed these skills naturally over a certain period of time, their sleep cycles will be off, resulting in being overtired (many cases of ADD are just sleep deprived kids). If I'm sleep deprived, I'm sure the poor baby is, too. A couple of nights of CIO usually results in a well rested, happier baby, who can FINALLY get a solid night's sleep!

I sincerely doubt my kids will need therapy due to a couple of nights where I didn't rush in and stick a bottle in their mouths every time they whimpered. And thank goodness they were all able to learn to self-sooth as babies - turns out they tend to need more sleep than the average kid - especially the ones that needed to CIO (only 2 of them). Poor ds14 was a miserable baby until I CIO'd when he was 6 months old - the change was HUGE!

Now, if some parents want their kids waking up several times a night, and not be able to fall right back to sleep like most people, good for you. My kids and I love our sleep way to much for that nonsense.

 

[DisneyATlast]

I believe people have specified newborns? And ignoring their cries during the night. You believe that is ok? We aren't meant to be able to shut out their cries. It isn't normal.

An older baby who had a wee bit of understanding about day and night, wet and dry and hungry or not is a whole other issue. Mine all slept through the night by 6 months or so. At 9 months or so we let our oldest cry it out after a time if illness that whacked out his sleep.

My kids have traveled the world with and without me. I'd say well adjusted...not sheltered. It is attitudes like yours however that feed the mommy wars. I bet you have a lot of little snide "private jokes" about your clients.

Once again, I was referring to sheltered parents, not children. I already said that.

It's funny that you keep making the "attitude" comment when you have a horrible attitude (which has been pointed out) toward everyone, including the OP. What's up with that?

I haven't participated in any discussion about "private jokes" so I'm not sure why you're implying that I make any "snide private jokes" about my "clients."

What on Earth are you even talking about?

 

[mjkacmom]

I believe people have specified newborns? And ignoring their cries during the night. You believe that is ok? We aren't meant to be able to shut out their cries. It isn't normal.
.

Where has anyone stated that a newborn should CIO? Of course newborns shouldn't be ignored. However, babies who are old enough to sleep through the night, who don't have diaper issues, who shouldn't be hungry (but yet are waking for a bottle out of habit), are able to learn to wake during the normal sleep cycle, and fall back to sleep, without ever realizing they were awake in the first place (like people do every single night).