RFID Possible Major Issue

[lockedoutlogic]

Depends a little on their lost property laws. The tech is there. Some states will not allow you to "re-load" a gift card, only issue a new ones (banking regulation hurdle, but most states are coming around on this issue). Honestly, that would be a feature I'd be worried the most about skimmers. If the state does not allow re-loading, you'd either have to issue a new bracelet, or you could conceivably add a removable "charm" for the bracelet with gift card functionality(using mag stripe tech or rfid). Allowing children to be able to freely charge to a room can be an adventure for the parents and the CM helping them decipher. If they allow a credit card backing, and you choose a debit card, you really are asking for some pain if you allow your child to charge to it. Of course that is a parenting issue, rather than a tech issue.

The Walt Disney company will fight any movement by the states of Florida and California to not allow reloading of giftcards until the cows come home.

I don't know about Cali...but Florida would crumble like a house of cards under their lobbying pressure.

 

[sachilles]

My point is if I can place independent limits on the child charges (like my $20+overage idea), then it shouldn't be an adventure. Especially if they give me the itemized list by name.

In theory yes. In practice its hard. I administer such a program. Siblings share. Somebody bought a snack that should have been a snack credit etc. There is a learning curve with little ones and their parents at times.
It CAN be done, it just has the potential to be one of those times where you might be inclined to pull your hair out.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

Hmm...that brings up another thought. But the way these threads have gone lately, a disclaimer:

I HAVE NO INFORMATION THAT THIS IS THE CASE, OR THAT DISNEY HAS EVEN THOUGHT OF THIS

Now that that is out of the way...

What about a "loadable" feature on the bands? Rather than using a gift card, you could have the ability to load $20 or whatever onto the band to use much like a gift card.

Speaking of which, what I'd REALLY like is some sort of gift card-like feature for my kids, where I can do something like put $20 on the card but have a "leeway" for a bit more, so that they don't have a problem when they are a couple dollars short...but I'd want to be able to "unload" the remainder.

Or, for that matter, (RFID/PIN code issues aside) give them a room charge privilege with a similar limit.

Oh I'm sure they have thought about it. That would be the last thing they want to do though as it would create a hard stop that would get you thinking about spending more money.

As for this problem being easy to fix, in most organizations it would be but with the size and scope of this project, the outsourced IT and the multiple layers it would have to go through, I suspect the simplest changes are major projects. I suspect whoever is "In charge" of this project (and IT at wdw in general) has very little authority

 

[*NikkiBell*]

I would suggest that you never use a debit card at WDW...there are too many false charges and mistakes there on any given day to not make it worthwhile...

I must be lucky then as I have used my debit card there almost daily since I was in college and had no issues out of 20+ trips.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I must be lucky then as I have used my debit card there almost daily since I was in college and had no issues out of 20+ trips.

you are lucky...not advisable.

while technically you can tap into the protection features that the visa shield provides (or whatever network it may be)...the funds tied up in debit transactions can create nightmares for the cardholders.

its always best to use "traditional" credit cards while traveling.

many moons ago...i spent alot of my days correcting the very discrepancies i'm warning against at WDW in a particular spot...just as an FYI

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I must be lucky then as I have used my debit card there almost daily since I was in college and had no issues out of 20+ trips.

20 trips? Hardly a significant sample but if that's ok with you...

 

[Mike2023]

We know this will be fixed at some point so I'm not that worried about it.

Here is a tip for now.

Just charge everything back to your room. Each night check your folio for errors. The transactions don't charge to your card until you reach your limit or the night before checkout.

 

[faindrops27]

So, I have a question. Does every resort guest have to opt for this rfid bracelet I am going back in September, and would rather just have the old resort card? Rusty do you know if this is possible?

 

[hamm1207]

I was there on the 8th. Went to the land with my mother. Bought food down in the seasons food court, came to like $18. Tapped my card on the little mickey...this is cool....please enter your pin...I didnt get a pin at check in...very nice cast member who english is a second language is confused. Calls over a manager. He's also confused. Long story short I used my credit card. We stayed at Art of Animation and didnt get a pin when we checked in. Im not mad at Disney at all and sent them a very nice comment about what happened so its fixed in the future. All cast members involved were awesome and I said as such, with their names, in the email.

Clint (Hamm's Husband...yay for a work trip to Orlando in january where my mom can come up from south florida to spend a day at Epcot while its -11 back in Anchorage... )

 

[doconeill]

So, I have a question. Does every resort guest have to opt for this rfid bracelet I am going back in September, and would rather just have the old resort card? Rusty do you know if this is possible?

No, you are not required to get the MagicBand. The other option will be an RFID-enabled card similar to the current KTTW card. However, certain features that are only available to MagicBand users will not be available. What those are is not 100% certain yet.

But you won't be able to escape RFID, at least if staying on-site, and it seems that eventually all tickets will be RFID as well. Of course, you don't have to use it for anything other than getting in to your room/park.

There are other threads on the topic of the MagicBands.

 

[loveshak22]

Am at WDW now and am checking in from my phone for this post and haven't gone back through all the posts again so hopefully I'm not repeating any information!

Here's our experience - when I checked in online I had to set a PIN for myself and my DH (we had the option to use the same PIN). When we checked in we were asked if we set a PIN and were given our KTTW cards. Since then we have been using our card as I'm assuming the RFID bracelet will be used - room key, the gate entrance at the new tap machines, and on the tap machines that read 'RFID' on the screen.

I've noticed that all the tap machines say 'not active' until the CM rings up the purchase. I'm assuming that's so it doesn't pick up inadvertent scans? We've had to enter our PIN for every purchase except at sit down restaurants. I thought I had read a post that only purchases over $50 would require a PIN but I even had a $1.00 purchase that required a PiN. Once I finished my purchase I always looked back at the tap machine and it said inactive again so I'm guessing the people's charges behind me didn't get charged to me.

We've bought items from our hotel CS restaurant, gift shops, snack carts, and kiosks and had the same experience at all.

I added some gift cards to our room the other day and checked my bill and so far everything has been correct.

I wish we had the RFID bracelets to avoid digging in my purse or DH's wallet - I think it will be cool!!

 

[doconeill]

We've had to enter our PIN for every purchase except at sit down restaurants. I thought I had read a post that only purchases over $50 would require a PIN but I even had a $1.00 purchase that required a PiN.

It was reported early on in this thread I believe that after testing they changed it to require a PIN on all purchases, although this is the first time I've heard of it not being required at TS locations (it makes sense though)

Once I finished my purchase I always looked back at the tap machine and it said inactive again so I'm guessing the people's charges behind me didn't get charged to me.

I believe that just means the sensor is deactivated (like you said, possibly to reduce stray scans, and also to save power), but doesn't mean the folio is properly closed. Haven't heard if they've addressed that issue yet.

 

[iheartjuppy]

Thanks for the update! I am hoping the bracelets roll out by May in time for our trip, but that is probably overly optimistic!

 

[TheRustyScupper]

So, I have a question. Does every resort guest have to opt for this rfid bracelet I am going back in September, and would rather just have the old resort card? Rusty do you know if this is possible?

1) The WRIST BRACELET is, indeed, an option.
2) But, what people fail to recognize is that
. . . the normal tickets will be RFID, even if staying off-site
. . . the KTTW resort cards will be RFID
3) Disney already previewed this new ticket on January 7, 2013.
. . . it was shown to the Press
. . . Disney is very proud of it and the $1-billion price tag of new systems
. . . the purpose was even stated as targeting and marketing
4) So, bracelet or not, you WILL be tracked.

NOTE: You are not going to be able to stop the tracking, but can
fail the system by placing foil around the tickets. The way to stop all
the crooks is to not tie the tickets/KTTW to room charging. Remember,
for purchases under $50, it is "Tap and Go" - only over $50 do you need
a pin code at the register.

 

[doconeill]

1) The WRIST BRACELET is, indeed, an option.
2) But, what people fail to recognize is that
. . . the normal tickets will be RFID, even if staying off-site
. . . the KTTW resort cards will be RFID
3) Disney already previewed this new ticket on January 7, 2013.
. . . it was shown to the Press
. . . Disney is very proud of it and the $1-billion price tag of new systems
. . . the purpose was even stated as targeting and marketing
4) So, bracelet or not, you WILL be tracked.

As mentioned earlier, the cards will lack the transmitter the bracelets will have to trigger longer-range sensors. So there is less tracking of them. But you aren't going to get away from RFID entirely. You can limit it to only your admission if you don't make purchases and don't use FP+.

NOTE: You are not going to be able to stop the tracking, but can
fail the system by placing foil around the tickets. The way to stop all
the crooks is to not tie the tickets/KTTW to room charging. Remember,
for purchases under $50, it is "Tap and Go" - only over $50 do you need
a pin code at the register.

I thought they decided to go with PIN for everything? Are they changing it again?!?

 

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . But you aren't going to get away from RFID entirely . . .

. . . correct
. . . this isn't Burger King
. . . you can't have it your way *
. . . you have to have it Disney's way *

I thought they decided to go with PIN for everything? Are they changing it again?!?

. . . yes
. . . they are pitching the "tap and go" for purchases as a guest benefit *
. . . of course, it takes a lot less manpower for Disney *
. . . and, makes transactions quicker, so they can get more sales *

* This comes from our mandatory Group Meeting.

 

[doconeill]

. . . they are pitching the "tap and go" for purchases as a guest benefit *
. . . of course, it takes a lot less manpower for Disney *
. . . and, makes transactions quicker, so they can get more sales *

* This comes from our mandatory Group Meeting.

They pitched it before they changed it too

At the very least, they could at least make it guest-selectable on how much to require the PIN. But they don't want that, because they want it as easy as possible for guests to spend without thinking.

 

[raidermatt]

With regard to "tap n go", Disney is trying the same tactic the credit card companies tried when they introduced RFID many years ago. It didn't work for the cc companies and it won't work for Disney.

The reality is that "tap n go" is of no more practical benefit to the customer than "swipe n go", which has been around for a long time. CC companies thought they could get customers to beg for RFID but it didn't happen. Yes, cc companies are using it more and more, but not because of customer demand, it's because it benefits them.

Allowing $50 and under without a pin is the same as allowing it with a swipe and no ID or signature in the old environment. All a guest has to do is buy something for $49 and then claim they lost their card and Disney will be on the hook. Not to mention all of the legit lost cards that are used by the less than honest. I'd be surprised if Disney stuck with the no pin policy, at least with charges that large.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . At the very least, they could at least make it guest-selectable on how much to require the PIN . . .

1) Great idea, but watch out.
2) You are now thinking logically.
3) If it makes sense, Disney IT-Dept would probably ignore it.

 

[doconeill]

With regard to "tap n go", Disney is trying the same tactic the credit card companies tried when they introduced RFID many years ago. It didn't work for the cc companies and it won't work for Disney.

The reality is that "tap n go" is of no more practical benefit to the customer than "swipe n go", which has been around for a long time. CC companies thought they could get customers to beg for RFID but it didn't happen. Yes, cc companies are using it more and more, but not because of customer demand, it's because it benefits them.

Allowing $50 and under without a pin is the same as allowing it with a swipe and no ID or signature in the old environment. All a guest has to do is buy something for $49 and then claim they lost their card and Disney will be on the hook. Not to mention all of the legit lost cards that are used by the less than honest. I'd be surprised if Disney stuck with the no pin policy, at least with charges that large.

It may have been American Express that led the charge, although their first pass was actually not with RFID but a contact chip. I think they were planning to instill a demand in their users for cheap chip-readers at home for use with online purchases. When that went nowhere, the next version of the card had an RFID chip and they touted tap-and-go instead.

The swipe-and-no-signature isn't actually the old environment - it's the current environment. But each vendor is different and can place different limits (up to whatever the CC processors require - $50 I think is the max but $20 is common), or require it every time. Depends on how much loss they might want to absorb. Disney may be willing to accept greater losses - but again, its on the guest to look for those charges they didn't make and dispute them.

As for guests purchasing and then claiming they didn't make it...I'm sure Disney can check out the video recordings and place you at the POS at the time of purchase if they needed to...and I bet if it comes up a lot on a particular profile they will...

And I've heard some anecdotes from some security experts that those special pouches, foil, etc. are of limited protection. It will probably stop some of the more "casual" issues, but a determined skimmer with a powerful reader can probably still get it. I haven't seen proof of it myself.