FP + What we know and what we want to know

[DougEMG]

Staggs said that the goal is to keep Disney guests on site and not take trips over to Universal or other parks.

How is any of this going to get people to stay on site?

- EMH hours have been cut - huge perk lost
- Rumors of FD changing to none for Value and QSDP for moderate and deluxe
- Discounts lowered for rooms
- FP usage limited to Three and EVERYONE on site or off site can get that.
- Hopping value is diminished (for me at least and a lot of other regulars).

How is this going to lure people to stay on-site and not leave?

The big thing that has been promised that I will be able to spend 15-20% more in the park because of the bracelet. That is not the kind of perk I like, and you don't have to stay on site to get that. I do think you get a complimentary bracelet though if you stay on site, I would have to purchase one if I stay offsite.
The perks being offered are less than before, and combine this with other cutbacks - it doesn't make sense. There has to be more coming.

We'll all be onsite stuck in the standby line cause we only had 3 FP+ for the entire day.

I'm having a hard time seeing how this is going to benefit me.

 

[Planogirl]

We often stay at Universal and visit WDW while there. Sometimes we split our stay and we stayed at WDW the whole time during our last trip but left to go to the Universal parks for a few days. I don't see any reason to rush to the Disney parks when we can only get 3 fastpasses per day whether we stay onsite or off.

We'll just have to wait and see if this is really it.

 

[mummabear]

The big thing that has been promised that I will be able to spend 15-20% more in the park because of the bracelet. QUOTE]

This is a stat from the braclets being introduced to a waterpark, while they will have some effect on peoples spending at Disney because it doesnt feel like you are spending money if you arent acgtually handing it over I dont expect it would have the same effect as at a waterpark where without the braclet you arent carrying around cash/cc so it is a hassle to go get some money to buy something and therefore putting the purchase in the too hard basket

 

[Kaylasmomma]

I honestly didnt read all the replies here but I catch the gist of this

Where is it mentioned that the EMH are being done away with. They are still listed for many months on the Disney park calenders

I tried to download this app but it appears to be something that can only work while inside the park..unless that changes with the roll out

we are going march 1st does anyone think this will be on by then.

I am with the other poster who said all this stuff is starting to turn what I thought was going to be a some what nice less cluster of vacation into a cluster

 

[Sammie]

Staggs said that the goal is to keep Disney guests on site and not take trips over to Universal or other parks.

How is any of this going to get people to stay on site?

- EMH hours have been cut - huge perk lost
- Rumors of FD changing to none for Value and QSDP for moderate and deluxe
- Discounts lowered for rooms
- FP usage limited to Three and EVERYONE on site or off site can get that.
- Hopping value is diminished (for me at least and a lot of other regulars).

How is this going to lure people to stay on-site and not leave?

The big thing that has been promised that I will be able to spend 15-20% more in the park because of the bracelet. That is not the kind of perk I like, and you don't have to stay on site to get that. I do think you get a complimentary bracelet though if you stay on site, I would have to purchase one if I stay offsite.
The perks being offered are less than before, and combine this with other cutbacks - it doesn't make sense. There has to be more coming.

I saw no where Staggs say that, where did you read he did?

 

[Kaylasmomma]

I saw no where Staggs say that, where did you read he did?

In this post here that you quoted was one of them that mentions they have been cut

but if i go right now to "my itinerary" on the official Disney site and scroll to my dates it still has EMH listed for EVERY park, for the WHOLE week we are there
so......

 

[Sammie]

In this post here that you quoted was one of them that mentions they have been cut

but if i go right now to "my itinerary" on the official Disney site and scroll to my dates it still has EMH listed for EVERY park, for the WHOLE week we are there
so......

I asked where did Staggs say Fastpass+ was meant to keep guests on site and away from Universal. I have read all the releases and did not see him state that.

 

[Kaylasmomma]

Sorry I am half asleep LOL I thought your post was for me carry on lol

 

[TotalDreamer]

I asked where did Staggs say Fastpass+ was meant to keep guests on site and away from Universal. I have read all the releases and did not see him state that.

Staggs didn't say it, the LA Times writer did.

 

[Greaser69]

As a Visitor from Germany (we come every year in October to visit WDW for many years now, really a Disney Veteran for 20 years now) and staying Off-Site (we have expensive flights already, so we can save some money when renting a Condo or a House), I have BIG concerns about the FP+
First it is not a good thing for me to plan in advance what I want ride on a certain day 3 month before I visit a Park. well, you said we be free to expierience the park then without ridereservations still. What means 2 Hours wait at Soarin’ or Toy Story Mania… Great thing…(Well I know now why Disney invest so much money the last years to make Interactive line changes. OMG, that is what I really want, standing 2 Hours in Line and playing silly games over and over again). Even if they are still the normal Fastpasses available (what I doubt, as it looks like that they will going forever), there will be no Passes available anymore for these rides as they are all pre booked by FP+.
Park Hopping? Well, enough people here already wrote, that it will makes no sense anymore then. As I often do Park Hopping another thing that changes bad for me and my family.
Wristbands? Great thing also. Wearing 2 weeks a Wristband is a great thing. Ask the people in the All-Included Resorts all over the World how great it is to wear them all the time…
And as an Off Site Guest I will even have to pay for them to be part of the experience and not a second-class guest.
Well, all this doesn’t make me look fwd. to my trip this October…

 

[Squidgyness]

As a Visitor from Germany (we come every year in October to visit WDW for many years now, really a Disney Veteran for 20 years now) and staying Off-Site (we have expensive flights already, so we can save some money when renting a Condo or a House), I have BIG concerns about the FP+
First it is not a good thing for me to plan in advance what I want ride on a certain day 3 month before I visit a Park. well, you said we be free to expierience the park then without ridereservations still. What means 2 Hours wait at Soarin or Toy Story Mania& Great thing&(Well I know now why Disney invest so much money the last years to make Interactive line changes. OMG, that is what I really want, standing 2 Hours in Line and playing silly games over and over again). Even if they are still the normal Fastpasses available (what I doubt, as it looks like that they will going forever), there will be no Passes available anymore for these rides as they are all pre booked by FP+.
Park Hopping? Well, enough people here already wrote, that it will makes no sense anymore then. As I often do Park Hopping another thing that changes bad for me and my family.
Wristbands? Great thing also. Wearing 2 weeks a Wristband is a great thing. Ask the people in the All-Included Resorts all over the World how great it is to wear them all the time&
And as an Off Site Guest I will even have to pay for them to be part of the experience and not a second-class guest.
Well, all this doesnt make me look fwd. to my trip this October&

Yeah I know, at least they gave us access to the basic ticket version of Fastpass+ if we want... I was fearing we'd be excluded for a while. I don't think you get many more things with the bracelet, and I can't imagine it costing much anyway tbh. Seems Disney remembered how significant international guests can be after all.

I actually don't think this is about getting people to stay onsite at hotels per se, but stay onsite in the parks and giftshops for more of the day, advertising stuff to EVERYONE they can get (offsite, onsite, AP and DVC, the whole lot) and controlling crowd flow, not to mention the data they'll be getting.

I've seen some mentions of getting people to stay at a Disney resort, but it just doesnt seem to me to be as important to them as reaching everyone they can and sell, sell, sell. It's a trade-off, they lose some opportunity to convince people to stay onsite but can still sell it to onsite guests as a perk with the bracelet etc, and in return they gain influence with offsite and local guests to try to get them to spend more too.

It was probably either strongly sell this idea as a resort perk only or sell it to everyone (= more audience for adverts, = even more chance of increasing spending in park by both onsite and offsite etc) and Disney chose the latter from the sounds of it.

Don't forget, you don't neccesarily need to offer even more perks/discounts to get people to stay onsite, pure advertising can also work well for them, if not for you. Not everyone, only a minority even, will notice that you aren't getting any more perks for onsite stay than before (save a bracelet with a few benefits), since apparently there are so many first time guests, and of the rest some may not be too aware anyway.

 

[bcrook]

I asked where did Staggs say Fastpass+ was meant to keep guests on site and away from Universal. I have read all the releases and did not see him state that.

Here is the NYtimes article based on a series of quotes from Staggs. You are correct, Staggs was not quoted saying FP+ is designed to keep customers on site. It was implied from article. There are Staggs quotes before and after. I think it is safe to assume that would be a byproduct of the FP+ system. But it isn't explicitly stated, sorry about that:

Mr. Staggs said Disneys board decided to move ahead with the technology upgrades in February 2011 only after identifying multiple ways in which the initiative could expand profits. If Disney can drive more value from existing infrastructure by layering on technology, that is extremely powerful, said Mr. Brown of Lo-Q. They cant just compete by building new rides; its already a theme-park arms race out there.

Disney expects MagicBands to turn into a big business in and of themselves; the company plans to introduce collectible sets of MagicBand accessories and charms.

Prodding guests to do more advance planning, combined with the tracking of guests as they roam the parks, will help Disney manage its work force more efficiently. More advance planning will also help lock visitors into Disney once they arrive in Orlando, discouraging people, for instance, from making impromptu visits to Universals Wizarding World of Harry Potter.

Some cosmetic changes to the parks are included in the initiatives cost. For instance, eventually guests will no longer enter the parks through turnstiles. Instead, they will tap their MagicBand on a post. Mr. Staggs explained that research indicated that guests  particularly mothers with strollers  viewed the turnstiles as an unpleasant barrier. Small, subtle things can make a big difference, Mr. Staggs said.

 

[bcrook]

Yeah I know, at least they gave us access to the basic ticket version of Fastpass+ if we want... I was fearing we'd be excluded for a while. I don't think you get many more things with the bracelet, and I can't imagine it costing much anyway tbh. Seems Disney remembered how significant international guests can be after all.

I actually don't think this is about getting people to stay onsite at hotels per se, but stay onsite in the parks and giftshops for more of the day, advertising stuff to EVERYONE they can get (offsite, onsite, AP and DVC, the whole lot) and controlling crowd flow, not to mention the data they'll be getting.

I've seen some mentions of getting people to stay at a Disney resort, but it just doesnt seem to me to be as important to them as reaching everyone they can and sell, sell, sell. It's a trade-off, they lose some opportunity to convince people to stay onsite but can still sell it to onsite guests as a perk with the bracelet etc, and in return they gain influence with offsite and local guests to try to get them to spend more too.

It was probably either strongly sell this idea as a resort perk only or sell it to everyone (= more audience for adverts, = even more chance of increasing spending in park by both onsite and offsite etc) and Disney chose the latter from the sounds of it.

Don't forget, you don't neccesarily need to offer even more perks/discounts to get people to stay onsite, pure advertising can also work well for them, if not for you. Not everyone, only a minority even, will notice that you aren't getting any more perks for onsite stay than before (save a bracelet with a few benefits), since apparently there are so many first time guests, and of the rest some may not be too aware anyway.

Do you think Disney will get advertising money from sponsors? If they do, the more people on "the feed" from the bracelet will allow them charge higher prices for each slot. 17 million guests at MK a year is a large audience.

 

[Mkrop]

..if you arrive at DHS at 9am. What about people with flights that arrive early morning who will only have 1 park day? From like 11 to close? Do they not deserve to ride Toy Story Mania with a FP...?

What about those with odd sleep schedules? What about if I just don't like breakfast? What if I have to work in the morning or take an important phone call? What if I oversleep?

I said they had the SAME opportunity as everyone who arrived at the same time they did! If they arrived at 11am, then they had the same chance as everyone else arriving then, same with 9am, or 3pm.

I thought FP+ would exist alongside FP. Or I am hoping that the leave some same FP+ so that people who decide at the last minute to attend a certain park, for whatever reason can change things.

I am not anitFP+ but it is rolling out differently than I expected and I have more questions than answers. Such as park hopping etc.

No matter what happens, I am not spending one friggin' cent more on my Disney vacations than we currently do. I will not pay to upgrade to a "fancy band"...I will not pay extra for more FP. I will take whatever comes with our room/tix/pkg but I flat out refuse to spend anything else on upgrades. They get enough of my money for a room, park tix, food and the occasional trading pin. They can "target market" me till the cows come home but I'm not buying.

We are so very near the cusp of being priced out of a Disney vacation as it is. I love Disney so much it hurts. But I can't afford more than we spend right now.

I am really worried that the whole FP+ thing is going to blow up in Disney's face and they're going to look foolish when it is a raging failure...like the whole New Coke debacle. I hope I'm wrong...i really do.

I dont know if it will be a debacle but like I said above it is not being presented in a way that works for my family's touring style right now.

But I too am at my limit of how much we are giving back to WDW, we invessted a lot in DVC so they got me and my love of WDW, but I am not a big spender there and I plan on continuing that.

 

[Waddler]

They have also increased the number of FP's allowed at attractions from the previously set ratios. It used to be set to a near walk-on at all times.. it's now an anticipated and "acceptable" 5-10min wait, with 15mins not be unheard of on a normal day.

Can anyone explain to me why increasing the FP/standby ratio necessitates a constant 10 minute FP wait all day? I must be missing something, because this doesn't make sense to me.

If you know you'll load a total number of x FP/FP+ guests, at a rate of Q guests per hour, why not distribute the fastpasses at rate Q? Match fastpass distribution to the number you can actually load. Voila! Little to no FP/FP+ wait, on average. They could even increase FP distribution at the end of the day if they want to increase FP/FP+ capacity and slow down the standby line. Why make every FP/FP+ user queue up longer than they have to?

 

[bcrook]

..if you arrive at DHS at 9am. What about people with flights that arrive early morning who will only have 1 park day? From like 11 to close? Do they not deserve to ride Toy Story Mania with a FP...?

What about those with odd sleep schedules? What about if I just don't like breakfast? What if I have to work in the morning or take an important phone call? What if I oversleep?

TSMM is definitely the most unique of all the rides in regards to obtaining a FP. For most other rides, you don't have to go to RD to ensure getting a FP. Maybe during the madness of high peak times, but not mid summer or other "regular" peak times.

 

[doconeill]

I honestly didnt read all the replies here but I catch the gist of this

Where is it mentioned that the EMH are being done away with. They are still listed for many months on the Disney park calenders

Disney has NOT stated that they are doing away with EMH. That is speculation on the part of people here, based on the fact that they cut evening EMH already by an hour to save on personnel and other costs, and there are rumblings of even more such cuts.

 

[Boski]

Can anyone explain to me why increasing the FP/standby ratio necessitates a constant 10 minute FP wait all day? I must be missing something, because this doesn't make sense to me.

X number of FP per hour = little to no wait
increase X number of FP per hour by 10% = increased wait by 10%

If you know you'll load a total number of x FP/FP+ guests, at a rate of Q guests per hour, why not distribute the fastpasses at rate Q? Match fastpass distribution to the number you can actually load. Voila! Little to no FP/FP+ wait, on average. They could even increase FP distribution at the end of the day if they want to increase FP/FP+ capacity and slow down the standby line. Why make every FP/FP+ user queue up longer than they have to?

Control

 

[seashoreCM]

Can anyone explain to me why increasing the FP/standby ratio necessitates a constant 10 minute FP wait all day? I must be missing something, because this doesn't make sense to me. o?

It won't be a constant 10 minute wait all day but, the more fastpasses are issued to mature during a given 1 hour window, all other things such as number of ride vehicles being equal, the greater the probability that large enough numbers of fastpass riders return at once every now and then to result in a longer wait in the fastpass queueing area.

If you know you'll load a total number of x FP/FP+ guests, at a rate of Q guests per hour, why not distribute the fastpasses at rate Q? Match fastpass distribution to the number you can actually load. Voila! Little to no FP/FP+ wait, on average. They could even increase FP distribution at the end of the day if they want to increase FP/FP+ capacity and slow down the standby line. Why make every FP/FP+ user queue up longer than they have to?

As was mentioned before, larger numbers of FPs are being issued nowadays so that there can be a reasonable number of advance Fastpass Plus reservations and also a reasonable number of same day Fastpasses either via kiosks or via Fastpass Plus. In other words they have to deliberately issue fastpasses at a rate much greater than Q.

Now I take it that the FP issuance rate does not actually exceed the ride load rate when averaged over an entire hour, barring ride breakdown. If it did then the queue would keep on growing. This is referred to in traffic engineering as a failed condition; the rate of arrivals exceeds the rate of "servicings."

 

[bigAWL]

X number of FP per hour = little to no wait
increase X number of FP per hour by 10% = increased wait by 10%

10% increase on a one-minute wait is... 6 seconds.