How do you know for sure what youre buying?

[ban26ana]

Dh and I did the dvc open house today, just to see the models. We aren't ready to buy right now, but probably will be ready sometime this year. We will probably do a resale.

Now, obviously the dvc guide is looking out for the best interests of dvc and its direct sales. But I asked what the benefits are by buying direct vs buying a resale.

She said that we don't know exactly what we're buying. That dvc member services will only talk to the member himself, so we could buy something that says it has 200 points left for the year, but really they were all used.

So this is honestly our biggest concern with buying resale. How do we know what we're getting? Obviously we would go with a resale broker that has good recommendations, but who's to say the seller isn't lying to them too? Is there a guarantee from one of these resale companies that says we are covered if it turns out those points aren't actually there?

 

[undchefreak]

I know nothing about the vetting process for listings, but if that was the only drawback, would you consider the loss of a year's points worth $60/point? If you do, great argument by the guide. If not, I say the risk is worth it.

In my (very limited) legal view, you should have very obvios grounds for compensation if what's promised isn't true. It's part of the legal agreement, and may force the contract to be void before closing. Stinks for the timeline, but the buyer should be protected.

 

[chalee94]

it is NOT a valid concern. at all.

DVC salespeople are getting more dishonest by the day. (calling themselves "guides" is just becoming another whopper.)

it's a real estate contract, not a pig in a poke. there are applicable laws to the process, it's hardly the wild west.

i bought resale through the timeshare store and yes, DVC has to confirm the points available in the resale contract before the contract changes hands. yes, you can get out if the points in the contract were misrepresented. at worst, you'd have wasted a little time and have to start looking for a different contract...but that is extremely rare.

it's getting to the point if i bought direct, i'd feel like i needed to take a shower afterwards. (and i do know that there are still honest DVC salespeople...but the stinkers are getting more and more common.)

 

[MickeyFan612]

I recently had an AKV contract pass ROFR that I had also already sent in final payment for closing, when I was notified that the seller owed more on the contract than she had sold it for! Since she did not have enough funds to pay the remainder at closing the broker let her cancel the listing even though she had a signed contract to sell at the agreed upon price. I'm not sure what legal rights I had in pursuing the signed contract if I had wanted to! I didn't want to force someone who could not afford to sell to sell, so I let it go. Point is if you agree to something and it doesn't work out or you end up with missing points, in my experience they will fix it for you! Almost forgot I once had some of my points not show up in my account and my broker called Disney and had it straightened out by that evening Don't be afraid to buy resale!

FYI I was refunded the entire amount for the the AKV contract within 5 business days!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I agree it's not a very valid concern. The brokers verify with Disney the points on the contract and an escrow service is used so your funds are protected thru that process if anything pops up that is not as was represented by the seller. I have had a point variation in a contract I was trying to purchase, learned of it within a day and cancelled the contract within 2 days of the offer. I also had a contract I was selling that I had a pending vacation that I was going to cancel if the contract sold. When the broker checked with Disney that showed up and I got a call right away about the point discrepancy so I cancelled the trip and then the points were fine.

The guide was being a timeshare salesperson and looking out for their own interests.

 

[rmcildw2m]

ALL of your resale companys are suppose to check out and validate the sellers claim of extra points in a resale contract . If the claims are false you can walk away with no penlity

 

[crisi]

The bigger concern, no matter who you buy from, is that you understand what you are getting for the term of the contract. That you understand that perks can come and go, what can change (and what can't) and how a timeshare works. More people are disappointed to discover that there is little availability of rooms a few months out or that rooms are sold to CRO to pay for trade and not available for points then find themselves with troublesome resale.

Which isn't to say that resales are easy. Sometimes people back out. Sometimes finding the right contract for you is time consuming. Sometimes the whole process takes a long time. It can be a long wait. Sometimes you get closed and then that extra bit while you get in the system seems to last forever. But that is just being patient.

 

[chalee94]

The bigger concern, no matter who you buy from, is that you understand what you are getting for the term of the contract. That you understand that perks can come and go, what can change (and what can't) and how a timeshare works. More people are disappointed to discover that there is little availability of rooms a few months out or that rooms are sold to CRO to pay for trade and not available for points then find themselves with troublesome resale.

i'd agree with this.

the biggest question, whether you buy direct or resale, is "do you know for sure what you are buying (and what you aren't)?" there are a lot of assumptions that can turn into disappointment...

and sorry if i ranted a little last night. i was tired. but it seems like every other day now there is a thread about "my guide told me resales can't trade out through RCI" or "my guide told me resales will be restricted to booking only at the home resort." seems like it used to be just a little shading of the truth: "500 vacation options" or "sure you can buy SSR pts to book ANYWHERE - no problem..."

 

[bighoo93]

Dh and I did the dvc open house today, just to see the models. We aren't ready to buy right now, but probably will be ready sometime this year. We will probably do a resale.

Now, obviously the dvc guide is looking out for the best interests of dvc and its direct sales. But I asked what the benefits are by buying direct vs buying a resale.

She said that we don't know exactly what we're buying. That dvc member services will only talk to the member himself, so we could buy something that says it has 200 points left for the year, but really they were all used.

It is interesting how different the guides are. Our guide was the one that brought up resale, others say that the guides try to avoid it. Ours was straight up and said we could save a few thousand dollars, but working with Disney might be easier, a company you know and trust, and a little more flexibility. In other words, pretty much the straight honest truth. I actually left thinking more highly of DVC and guides than when we came, and if I were in a situation where I wanted to buy direct (e.g., small contract, specific use year, GF villas, etc.) I would go back to this particular guide for my purchase, and if I knew others who wanted to purchase direct, I would recommend they go to him as well.

 

[JimMIA]

ALL of your resale companys are suppose to check out and validate the sellers claim of extra points in a resale contract . If the claims are false you can walk away with no penlity

Yes, but some companies do a MUCH better job of due diligence than others. MUCH better, as you will see from many threads here on the DIS.

There have been situations like the one described above, where the seller needed to pay IN to close and couldn't. There have been situations where the contract was tied up in a divorce or probate problem. There have been cases where sellers have made reservations which used some of the points they said were there. There have been situations where one spouse was trying to sell without the other spouse's knowledge.

IF a broker asks the right questions and does proper due diligence, most problems can be avoided. Not ALL brokers do, and not all do it on every contract.

But there is always the possibility that the seller will be either clueless or unethical and both the broker and buyer will find out very late in the game. In that case, you simply walk away and look for another contract.

 

[DannysMom]

Just wanted to agree with all the smart folks on here, if you stick with one of the big resale brokers your risk is really minimal. Some of the DVC salesmen are getting really shady IMO.

I bought a resale contract this past summer through Fidelity and had a great experience. The Timeshare Store (a forum sponsor) also gets lots & lots of good reviews.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos or autocorrects!

 

[jimim]

it is NOT a valid concern. at all.

DVC salespeople are getting more dishonest by the day. (calling themselves "guides" is just becoming another whopper.)

it's a real estate contract, not a pig in a poke. there are applicable laws to the process, it's hardly the wild west.

i bought resale through the timeshare store and yes, DVC has to confirm the points available in the resale contract before the contract changes hands. yes, you can get out if the points in the contract were misrepresented. at worst, you'd have wasted a little time and have to start looking for a different contract...but that is extremely rare.

it's getting to the point if i bought direct, i'd feel like i needed to take a shower afterwards. (and i do know that there are still honest DVC salespeople...but the stinkers are getting more and more common.)

Yea to this on all counts. Great post. U r entering a contract. Our broker said if they fond out down the road something was not what was advertised we could walk away with no penalty. It is a legal bonding contract u r entering so u r protected. We never did the whole tour thing cause all our friends have dvc, we r the last to join, and we knew and experienced it. So we went right to resale and haven't looked back. Sucks how more of these negative stories are surfacing cause it kinda tarnishes disney's rep.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[ELMC]

It is interesting how different the guides are. Our guide was the one that brought up resale, others say that the guides try to avoid it. Ours was straight up and said we could save a few thousand dollars, but working with Disney might be easier, a company you know and trust, and a little more flexibility. In other words, pretty much the straight honest truth. I actually left thinking more highly of DVC and guides than when we came, and if I were in a situation where I wanted to buy direct (e.g., small contract, specific use year, GF villas, etc.) I would go back to this particular guide for my purchase, and if I knew others who wanted to purchase direct, I would recommend they go to him as well.

Not to split hairs, but I'm not so sure I agree with your assessment that your "guide" (read: salesperson) gave you the "straight honest truth". Assuming you were looking at a standard 160 point AKV contract priced at $125 per point, the potential savings by buying resale could very well have been $8,000+ (assuming resale at $70 per point). That certainly sounds like more than "a few thousand dollars" to me. To me it sounds like he raised the objection before you could and then glanced over it in order to minimize the impact of the difference.

 

[Dean]

Dh and I did the dvc open house today, just to see the models. We aren't ready to buy right now, but probably will be ready sometime this year. We will probably do a resale.

Now, obviously the dvc guide is looking out for the best interests of dvc and its direct sales. But I asked what the benefits are by buying direct vs buying a resale.

She said that we don't know exactly what we're buying. That dvc member services will only talk to the member himself, so we could buy something that says it has 200 points left for the year, but really they were all used.

So this is honestly our biggest concern with buying resale. How do we know what we're getting? Obviously we would go with a resale broker that has good recommendations, but who's to say the seller isn't lying to them too? Is there a guarantee from one of these resale companies that says we are covered if it turns out those points aren't actually there?

This is a pretty good example of a half truth (at best). While technically there is a risk that things won't be as portrayed or that points will be used/committed prior to closing, it's a very low risk situation.

It is interesting how different the guides are. Our guide was the one that brought up resale, others say that the guides try to avoid it. Ours was straight up and said we could save a few thousand dollars, but working with Disney might be easier, a company you know and trust, and a little more flexibility. In other words, pretty much the straight honest truth. I actually left thinking more highly of DVC and guides than when we came, and if I were in a situation where I wanted to buy direct (e.g., small contract, specific use year, GF villas, etc.) I would go back to this particular guide for my purchase, and if I knew others who wanted to purchase direct, I would recommend they go to him as well.

That's about as straight as you can expect out of a salesperson trying to make a sale but it was still a sales technique apparently from a pretty honest guide. I would agree that this is a person I'd want to do business with if the rest of the interactions went as well and buying retail made sense (almost never does nowadays).

 

[bumbershoot]

She said that we don't know exactly what we're buying. That dvc member services will only talk to the member himself, so we could buy something that says it has 200 points left for the year, but really they were all used.

So this is honestly our biggest concern with buying resale. How do we know what we're getting? Obviously we would go with a resale broker that has good recommendations, but who's to say the seller isn't lying to them too? Is there a guarantee from one of these resale companies that says we are covered if it turns out those points aren't actually there?

Like the poster that responded to you, if the seller has been lying the whole time, at *some* point in the process they will be found out, and you will be released from the contract with no penalty. Time will have gone by and you will be disappointed, but you won't be out *money*.

It's REALLY too bad that the guide said all that to you. I know that if a guide said that to me, I would find a new guide so that they didn't get credit for any *future* direct purchases I might make.

Not to split hairs, but I'm not so sure I agree with your assessment that your "guide" (read: salesperson) gave you the "straight honest truth". Assuming you were looking at a standard 160 point AKV contract priced at $125 per point, the potential savings by buying resale could very well have been $8,000+ (assuming resale at $70 per point). That certainly sounds like more than "a few thousand dollars" to me. To me it sounds like he raised the objection before you could and then glanced over it in order to minimize the impact of the difference.

We don't know how long ago the poster you quoted was looking. Might not have been quite the difference it is now.

And since the poster said "I were in a situation where I wanted to buy direct ", I'm not sure the poster actually bought from Disney. So if the guide was trying to minimize it to sell Disney, it backfired.

 

[ELMC]

We don't know how long ago the poster you quoted was looking. Might not have been quite the difference it is now.

I thought about that, which is why I quoted direct prices lower than what they are now and resale prices higher than what they are now. The gap in today's figures is even larger.

 

[Caren90]

I believe that the more information that can be found on the internet pertaining to direct vs. resale, the more difficult it is for a "guide" to make a sale stick to the end.

I would be interested to see how many people sign on the dotted line with pixie dust in their eyes, only to come home and do some internet research and then cancel their direct purchase. My guess would be that there may be more of this happening over the past 5-10 years than previously.

That is the problem with so many resorts and points floating around in the marketplace. Too many points (resale) available plus fewer direct buyers mean more aggressive and dishonest sales tactics.

Stephen

 

[disbound09]

IMHO the cost vs value is with resales. With that said changes that can be made by disney as was with 2011 changes are there. If they make too many changes they will face a backlash by DVC owners

 

[Missyrose]

I believe that the more information that can be found on the internet pertaining to direct vs. resale, the more difficult it is for a "guide" to make a sale stick to the end.

I would be interested to see how many people sign on the dotted line with pixie dust in their eyes, only to come home and do some internet research and then cancel their direct purchase. My guess would be that there may be more of this happening over the past 5-10 years than previously.

That is the problem with so many resorts and points floating around in the marketplace. Too many points (resale) available plus fewer direct buyers mean more aggressive and dishonest sales tactics.

Stephen

The problem for the salespeople is the ever-growing gap between direct and resale prices. I could understand people paying 10 or 20 percent more for direct contracts. But Disney keeps raising the price of their points and the cost of resale keeps falling, so it becomes difficult to justify paying twice as much for a direct contract than you would pay for resale.

 

[bighoo93]

Not to split hairs, but I'm not so sure I agree with your assessment that your "guide" (read: salesperson) gave you the "straight honest truth". Assuming you were looking at a standard 160 point AKV contract priced at $125 per point, the potential savings by buying resale could very well have been $8,000+ (assuming resale at $70 per point). That certainly sounds like more than "a few thousand dollars" to me. To me it sounds like he raised the objection before you could and then glanced over it in order to minimize the impact of the difference.

No problem, I understand splitting hairs is part of internet message boards. It was not an AKV contract, that wasn't the price, that wasn't the number of points, it wasn't raised before I could object and it wasn't glanced over. You weren't there and I didn't provide a complete transcript of the conversation, so I don't expect you to know how it went down. I'm just saying it was an honest presentation without resorting to scare tactics that I have seen quite a few people report. You don't have to believe me.