Rumor on Restaurant board: ADR priority for DVC members?

[Cyndibear]

When I saw this thread, it all made so much sense. I just thought it had something to do with being in Concierge. I guess not. I couldn't believe the responses I received. I just emailed Concierge to see about our ADR's and if we can use TIW discount. I'll post the response.

For future ADR's I will not mention the TIW card either.

Cyndi

 

[JimMIA]

When I saw this thread, it all made so much sense. I just thought it had something to do with being in Concierge. I guess not. I couldn't believe the responses I received. I just emailed Concierge to see about our ADR's and if we can use TIW discount. I'll post the response.

For future ADR's I will not mention the TIW card either.

Cyndi

If all this proves to be true...what is the point of staying in Concierge? Seems to me like a waste of points if the benefits are withdrawn the minute they find out you have a TiW card.

I know there are other benefits of concierge, but I think they're pretty trivial compared to the presumed ADR benefit of staying in Concierge.

 

[JimMIA]

You know...

if you go back and read the original CM posts, and then compare that to Cyndibear's emails...there might be a totally different interpretation.

With the exception of concierge (which appears to mean nothing), all of the inputs the system is requesting are for various groups who get DISCOUNTS -- DVC, AP, TIW, CM, etc.

Because DVC and concierge are mentioned in the same breath, we all assume that means DVC members get preference. But if you stop and think about it, it makes no sense that DVC would get preference and a cash guest at Poly would not.

What if...?

What if this system was not a system with some preferences and some penalties...but a system totally designed to limit reservations which might generate discounted checks? In other words, not in FAVOR of DVC members, but against DVC members because of the 10% discount we get at some restaurants.

I'd hate to think we would be discriminated against because of our DVC membership. But if you read the CM's posts, Cyndibear's emails, and Brian Noble's logic...hmmm!

 

[Brian Noble]

Jim, I think you might be on the right track. And, as I said before, it doesn't suprirse me one bit. After all, Disney is masterful at extracting as much revenue from the Resort's assets as possible.

Operationally, I don't think it will matter for the DVC and AP discounts. Those are designed to put fannies in seats that aren't otherwise occupied---they generally only apply to under-utilized restaurants/times, or to generate business for a new location, etc. By definition, those places aren't full.

The real question is: what do they do with DDP? On the one hand, DDP is immensely valuable to the Resort, because it helps tie up a family as a captive audience. On the other hand, some places are positively pillaged by the DDP reimbursement rate.

 

[deej696]

Very interesting points Jim. I've never once used the DVC dining discount, as I've always had TIW where the discount is greater. I think you are definitely on to something....

Perhaps instead of a tiered system for reservation availability, its a tiered system for discount availability....

 

[Brian Noble]

You might want to write to guest communications and ask them about it.

FYI: this is Cast Member code for "You really ought to complain about this."

 

[Mich Mouse]

You know...

if you go back and read the original CM posts, and then compare that to Cyndibear's emails...there might be a totally different interpretation.

With the exception of concierge (which appears to mean nothing), all of the inputs the system is requesting are for various groups who get DISCOUNTS -- DVC, AP, TIW, CM, etc.

Because DVC and concierge are mentioned in the same breath, we all assume that means DVC members get preference. But if you stop and think about it, it makes no sense that DVC would get preference and a cash guest at Poly would not.

What if...?

What if this system was not a system with some preferences and some penalties...but a system totally designed to limit reservations which might generate discounted checks? In other words, not in FAVOR of DVC members, but against DVC members because of the 10% discount we get at some restaurants.

I'd hate to think we would be discriminated against because of our DVC membership. But if you read the CM's posts, Cyndibear's emails, and Brian Noble's logic...hmmm!

That is really the most believable scenario thus far.

Though I have called three times in the last two weeks to add ressies and have not been asked if I am TIW...but that could be because they already know I am DVC!

I wonder if we will every really know the truth??

 

[deej696]

One thing I find odd is that the TIW identifier was removed from the TA system. I remember when it first was released, there was a check box for TIW, DVC, and AP. Given the fact that TIW applies basically everywhere, and has a bigger discount than the others, one would think they'd want to limit this one the most. Not sure how this fits into the theory, but FWIW....

Of course, that goes back to what I was saying earlier but now its that I dont understand why Disney would have a tiered system for discounts on the CM system, and a non-tiered system for those who book ADRs online....

 

[ead79]

This explains the strange questions we were getting from the Concierge Staff at AK -Jambo House. We have a Sept 5-14 stay planned at AK-Jambo Concierge. When asking them to arrange our ADR's I was asked if we would be on a dining plan. I said no, that we were going to obtain the TIW card when we go in May. They asked me to let them know if we do obtain it and asked for the numbers on the card. I thought that was very strange because I was never asked that when I booked ADR's myself.

I did email them the TIW card number this is the response I received:

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:38:43 -0700 (PDT), Animal Kingdom Lodge
Itinerary
Planning <animal.kingdom.lodge.itinerary.planning@disneyworld.com>
wrote:
Dumela! Cyndi,

Thank you for sending in the Tables in Wonderland information. If for some reason there is availability without the discount but not with
the discount do you want us to book anyway? We are finding in the new booking system that some restaurants limit the number of tables
offered with the Tables in Wonderland discount.


I questioned this as this was new to me and I could not believe that Disney would do this considering I was PAYING EXTRA for TIW. I received this response:

On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 16:25:42 -0700 (PDT), Animal Kingdom Lodge Itinerary
Planning <animal.kingdom.lodge.itinerary.planning@disneyworld.com>
wrote:
Dumela! Cyndi,

In the new booking system we have noticed that when we code
membership for Tables in Wonderland sometimes we do not get offers for restaurants when we can get them without the membership. This indicates to us that they are only offering limited numbers of tables available for discount bookings. We think it is similar to room bookings where the number of discount tables is controlled. We have been told that discounts have to be coded at the time of booking. As far as we know this affect
discounts at all restaurnts.

You might want to write to guest communications and ask them about it.

The address is wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com . They may be able to get an official answer. All we know is how the new booking system is behaving and the notice we got that discounts have to be coded at time of booking.


When I booked our ADR's for our May trip I did not mention the TIW card and we did receive the discount at our TS meals.

I have received a tentative itinerary with our ADR's listed and everything I wanted was there. I didn't need much, just Jiko, LeCellier Lunch, and a Cinderella's breakfast. I will email them now to see if the ADR's are final and if I can use my TIW card.

Cyndi

Wow, this email really changes my opinion of this rumor. To me it really substantiates it. The concierge has no reason to tell folks this unless they had really seen the TIW discount affect availability.

All I can say is that if Disney does continue this, they will be getting some strongly worded letters from me. I am livid at the very idea of this! I had to PAY for the TIW card in the first place. We typically eat 2 table service meals per day, so even with a 20% discount, we're still making Disney more money than a guest on the dining plan. If this is confirmed by Guest Relations, then I'm sending a letter. This infuriates me! What really blows my mind is all the lengths that Disney seems to be willing to go to in order to make dining more profitable. If offering the DDP at the current price isn't profitable enough, then increase the price for it. Don't take it out on folks that aren't using the DDP!

Until this is hopefully straightened out, I won't offer up info about my TIW membership. I'll have DH call to make our ADRs since he doesn't have a TIW card.

 

[Mich Mouse]

This information is appalling!

As I posted before when making multiple ressies over the last few weeks I have not been asked about any discounts...

Is that not the common experience here??

 

[Tara]

You know...

if you go back and read the original CM posts, and then compare that to Cyndibear's emails...there might be a totally different interpretation.

With the exception of concierge (which appears to mean nothing), all of the inputs the system is requesting are for various groups who get DISCOUNTS -- DVC, AP, TIW, CM, etc.

Because DVC and concierge are mentioned in the same breath, we all assume that means DVC members get preference. But if you stop and think about it, it makes no sense that DVC would get preference and a cash guest at Poly would not.

What if...?

What if this system was not a system with some preferences and some penalties...but a system totally designed to limit reservations which might generate discounted checks? In other words, not in FAVOR of DVC members, but against DVC members because of the 10% discount we get at some restaurants.

I'd hate to think we would be discriminated against because of our DVC membership. But if you read the CM's posts, Cyndibear's emails, and Brian Noble's logic...hmmm!

This makes tons of sense to me and goes back to my belief that if Disney were going to offer some kind of preference, it wouldn't be to DVC members! I do believe that there could be an effort to limit discount bookings - first they increased the TIW price, now they're (possibly) limiting bookings.

But when I read it, I think "wait...DVC, AP, CM, TIW - those are all discount possibilities. So where does concierge fit into the mix?" My hunch is that the former group narrows the field of choice somewhat, and the latter gives some amount of override or "reserve tables," thereby widening the field.

 

[JimMIA]

Until this is hopefully straightened out, I won't offer up info about my TIW membership. I'll have DH call to make our ADRs since he doesn't have a TIW card.

Our last two trips have included good friends joining us on the last 3 days of the trip. They don't stay with us; we just do the parks and stuff together. They're not DVC, not TiW, not AP, etc. As a matter of fact, last time they stayed offsite.

We haven't been eating much onsite since Disney Dining scuttled the DDP a couple of years ago, but we normally do a character meal with that other family. We'll see how this pans out, but I think next time, we'll have them make the ADR!

 

[JimMIA]

So where does concierge fit into the mix?" My hunch is that the former group narrows the field of choice somewhat, and the latter gives some amount of override or "reserve tables," thereby widening the field.

Cyndibear's emails tend to lead to an opposite conclusion -- that Concierge means something unless you are DVC, TiW, AP etc.

They're certainly not telling her they can make ADRs happen anyway, despite the fact she has an TiW card! I agree with Brian that what they're really telling her is that she needs to complain.

 

[Tara]

Cyndibear's emails tend to lead to an opposite conclusion -- that Concierge means something unless you are DVC, TiW, AP etc.

They're certainly not telling her they can make ADRs happen anyway, despite the fact she has an TiW card! I agree with Brian that what they're really telling her is that she needs to complain.

I think we're actually saying the same thing. I meant that concierge is one of the factors taken into account by the new system (presumably), but it has the opposite effect that the other factors have. It could very well be that it's a "one choice only" menu and if they choose TIW, they don't find tables, but if they choose concierge (or choose nothing), they do find availability.

This would also lead me to believe that if you are DVC, you will have much better luck getting the restaurants with no DVC discount. And that if I call and use 90+10 and don't get availability on the 91, 92, 93 etc day out ADRs when mentioning one of the 4 discounts, I can call back at 90 days out for that particular day (just as any offsite guest with no reservation number could) and have possibly just as good a chance at booking what I wanted without mentioning any discount. My thinking here is that if you are mentioning a reservation number and you're DVC, they'll automatically know that and your choice will be limited.

And yes, I agree that the signal to complain is pretty clear.

 

[sgtdisney]

I don't know, I would still see this as a way to keep customers at Disney and also in the parks. DVC members enjoy the luxury of knowing that they can (and do) go back every year. I can honestly say, as a member who has going for 17 years now, if I can't get an ADR it isn't a big deal. I will skip eating in a TS restaurant, and many times just leave the property. "We'll just go there next year" is what comes to mind.

However for people on the DDP and more specifically, the free dining plan, they aren't going ANYWHERE. They are a captive audience, if they can't get into Restaurant A, they will have to go to Restaurant B and if that doesn't work, well then they'll have to settle for a less popular Restaurant C. They aren't going to leave the property if their favorites aren't available. I think Disney may be using this new tier process as a way to fill some of the restaurants that don't normally get filled. Really, people are on free dining are getting free meals, I can see Disney giving them a lower priority than others at the resort. They have to eat at Disney regardless of where they get ADRs.

For all we know, the restaurants that offer discounts to DVC members may not be coded to give DVC members a priority, whereas restaurants where DVC members don't get a discunt may. The system could be coded to be specific to dining establishment as what priority is given to whom. I agree seeing how things have gone over the years, it seems strange to give DVC members a benefit, but if they are filling popular restaurants with cash diners, that is a benefit to Disney as well.

Not quite sure how TIW fits in here. I thought that discount program originally was created to be sold to Florida residents to fill the nicer restaurants, particularly in times where attendance is lower. Then they added the ability for AP holders to purchase it. Is this the case? I can see them trying to, as with the dining plan, get people using this type of discount into less popular restaurants. Not saying this is right, but in one way it makes sense fiscally. However Disney allowing this information to get out, specifically for the TIW reservations, is not good for Public Relations.

It should be interesting. Like I mentioned earlier, I called after the 90 day mark to get reservations for early August (not during free dining) but a prime time none the less. I gave them my DVC reservation number and got into places like Chef Mickey's and a couple of Epcot restaurants that I used to have trouble getting into in the past, especially considering i was reserving a table for 6. I got an ADR time at or within 15 mins or my requested time in each case.

 

[Cyndibear]

Here is my response to my email about if ADR's were made and about using the TIW discount:

Dumela! Cyndi,

I was able to book everything but had to book Le Cellier without the
Tables in Wonderland attached to it. It applied to the other two
bookings and Cinderella's was booked with the discount.

I am still going to try to use the TIW discount, if not, since it is a lunch reservation, I will use the DVC discount.

Cyndi

 

[allshookup]

It does appear to make sense that they had my res # & they knew I was DVC so they didn't bother asking me if I was TIW & maybe that's why I couldn't get Le Cellier, Mama Melrose, etc. 90+ days for dinner. Still amazes me that Disney would go through all this trouble, but yet the system still shows restaurants booked when they sometimes end up half empty. I would think they would fix that problem before they start eliminating diners with a discount.

 

[bjakmom]

Here's what I experienced back in March when making my June ADRs, but thought the CM comment was just 'a crazy CM comment' - now it makes sense (at least a bit).
Here's the way it happened. Gave my ADRs to CL - Called the next AM to check and somehow I fell through the cracks, they did not call on my 90+ day, so called right then (one day late). They were unable to book any lunch time on my first day at Chefs de France (they thought that was very unusual, too). The only time avail the next night for Teppan Edo was 4:50 (I wanted around 7).
So of course I start calling each day myself. Within a few days I am able to get 8:10 for TepE (and a few days later I got my 6:50). On that call the CM still has no times for CdeF for lunch and he makes the comment "perhaps there are no times left for TIW tables" I say "Whaaaat!!!? does that mean?" and he tells me that there are only a certain # of tables available for TIW card holders at any given time - like I said, I immediately write him off as a crazy, doesn't know what he's talking about CM (sorry, I really do love CMs), but this is just a completely foreign language he is talking to me - I mean I PAID for this card, get free valet parking, frequent the $$ restaurants with it, and usually get great tables and service, etc - I always thought that WDW LOVED the TIW people
Anyway, within a few days (don't remember exactly), I call again about CdeF and don't mention TIW (just in case), but mention instead that we are staying DVC CL, that they were unable to book my ADR, and I get the noon ADR I was hoping for.
Crazy stuff, but remember, the CL staff could not get this ADR at first either, so who knows! Still doesn't make sense that CL was not able to get the ADRs either, though- this was back when the system was a bit crazy. I, for one, will not be mentioning my TIW card again!!

This is what I posted back in post 33 - in light of Cyndibear's email from AKL concierge (where I'm staying also) things now make even more sense to me. When they were making my ADRs they also asked me if I was on DP and I told them TIW (I always offer this info, thinking it's a 'good' thing) - don't remember giving them the card # though. The system was new at my 90 days in March, so that explains why even CL seemed so confused as to why they couldn't get me those 2 ADRs. Seems to me that yes, they are using a tiered system for ADRs, and that TIW may trump both CL and DVC in limiting availability. I will not mention TiW until I'm having dessert - there is no rule that states TIW must be booked with the card - at least not yet!

 

[gkrykewy]

This is all very interesting/troubling... FWIW, when I called at 90+10 a few weeks ago, I did get all of my requested reservations at the times I wanted (including Cali Grill, 2x dinner at Le Cellier), and I did mention to the CM that it was a DVC reservation, and that we have DDE/TIW (the latter was an offhand comment, when she suggested that if we were dining TS every night, maybe we should consider the DDP).

So DVC/TIW obviously didn't hurt my availability.

It could very well be that it's a "one choice only" menu and if they choose TIW, they don't find tables, but if they choose concierge (or choose nothing), they do find availability.

Except for the "or choose nothing" presumption (and we don't know if these AKV concierge staff were choosing concierge as their non-TIW default choice), this would actually be consistent with the initial reports of more favorable treatment for DVC, concierge, etc.

This is becoming a big enough deal that Disney may actually have to say something about it. I haven't fully caught up on my podcasts - have Pete and the podcast crew said anything on this yet?

 

[JimMIA]

It does appear to make sense that they had my res # & they knew I was DVC so they didn't bother asking me if I was TIW & maybe that's why I couldn't get Le Cellier, Mama Melrose, etc. 90+ days for dinner. Still amazes me that Disney would go through all this trouble, but yet the system still shows restaurants booked when they sometimes end up half empty. I would think they would fix that problem before they start eliminating diners with a discount.

If you were in your +10 period, it's not surprising that you didn't get the ADRs. They have never made all tables available during the +10 period, only a portion of them.

If that's the case, call back -- you may have luck within the regular 90 days.