Rumor on Restaurant board: ADR priority for DVC members?

[brookelizabeth]

Any relatively simple front end, SQL backend, or Oracle back end could handle this type of thing with no problem and any programmer with limited skills could design and code it.

GEEK ALERT!



But you know I am one too! Geeks unite!

Disney should hire YOU to do their stuff, maybe then it would make sense!



I am pretty about this. I DO think we DVCers should get some extra bonus for dining, espeically during peak times. We are loyal customers. We also have an easier ability to cook right in our room, so a nice discount + an easy time making ADRs would make it even more likely for me to go into the restaurants on our trips. An earlier window would be very easy.

Cyndi's emails are kinda shocking that even CL at a Deluxe doesn't know what the stink is going on. What poor communication within the company.

Has anyone emailed on it yet to get the scoop? I'm going to.

This is becoming a big enough deal that Disney may actually have to say something about it. I haven't fully caught up on my podcasts - have Pete and the podcast crew said anything on this yet?

I just listened to the most recent and they haven't said anything yet - I think this "news" just started this week, so possibly on next weeks show. There is a thread going on the PodCast boards about this too.

 

[brookelizabeth]

I just emailed them. I started out nice, but got a little firery at the end!

Hello,
I frequent a message board on the topic of Walt Disney World and have recently been alerted of a change in your Dining Reservations system.

It seems no one is quite clear on how it works; however, a fellow member of the message board who is staying at Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge, Concierge Level, was recently told by Concierge that they could not book a certain sought-after dinner reservation with her Tables in Wonderland discount card, but they could without the card.

This tells us that because this person chose to spend money on a discount card, she is now going to be limited on what Dining Reservations she is able to make and receive the discount with. This discount card, that she paid for, also requires that an 18% gratuity be added despite what the service she actually receives deserves.

Being that I am a Tables in Wonderland carrier as well, and I am visiting Walt Disney World during Premier Week (December 26-January 1) I am becoming very concerned of making Dining Reservations. Thankfully we are also Disney Vacation Club members and have a kitchen - so I'll just save my money and not bother with eating on property if this is the case!!

If you cannot tell, this supposed news is quite upsetting. You have many, many, many loyal customers. People that purchase the Tables in Wonderland card are Annual Passholders. LOYAL customers that return and spend money in your parks and at your restaurants. Many of these people are also Vacation Club Members (like myself), again, LOYAL customers. We come back year after year (sometimes more often!), spend money in your stores and do enjoy eating in the restaurants. If this new system is in fact true, why are we being penalized? Ask any other company-they reward their loyal customers.

I do appreciate your time and I hope my email is completely false.

I look forward to your reply,
-Brook *******

 

[Brian Noble]

DO think we DVCers should get some extra bonus for dining, espeically during peak times. We are loyal customers.

Discounts do not reward loyalty. Discounts are given only because they are expected to lead to more business, not less. DVC members do get a discount for dining---but generally at the less-popular restaurants and at the less-popular times. AP discounts are similar. In effect, the "loyal customers" are being used to soak up excess capacity that the casual visitors don't utilize. When business drops, loyalty discounts go up (to soak up the excess capacity). When business is booming, loyalty discounts drop.

It's pretty simple really.

Remember: at the end of the day, despite all the Welcome Homes, DVC is just another cog in the Parks & Resorts money-printing machine.

 

[gkrykewy]

I just emailed them. I started out nice, but got a little firery at the end!

Well done.

 

[Mich Mouse]

Does anyone have the e-address to send a question/complaint to?

 

[PrincessV]

HOLY COW!!!

Few changes that net WDW more money surprise me, but this one's pretty shocking, if true. I read through the first few pages yesterday and just saw Cyndi's concierge post. It sure sounds like something's happening.

I was wondering what they would do if you don't mention your TIW, but then present it at the meal. Surely they won't deny you the discount-at least I hope not.

This was my first thought, too. (Okay, my first thought was really "Oh no they di'nt?!" ) I've never, ever offered up the fact that I have TIW while making ADRs or sitting to eat. No one's ever known I have it until I put in the folder with the receipt and my credit card to pay. Will a new system based on availability-with-discounts keep me from using it if they weren't informed ahead of time?

Not quite sure how TIW fits in here. I thought that discount program originally was created to be sold to Florida residents to fill the nicer restaurants, particularly in times where attendance is lower. Then they added the ability for AP holders to purchase it. Is this the case? I can see them trying to, as with the dining plan, get people using this type of discount into less popular restaurants. Not saying this is right, but in one way it makes sense fiscally. However Disney allowing this information to get out, specifically for the TIW reservations, is not good for Public Relations.

Hi, Florida resident and semi-local here. Yes, the DDE/TIW was initially a FL thing, designed to get us locals into the restaurants. And, in my unscientific survey of friends down here, it worked quite well. Most folks I know in the area who frequent WDW have the TIW card and use it often. You're right-on about PR. We're already pretty ticked down here about non-discounted weekends when FL/AP rates have come out, and we'll be most unhappy if our restaurant choices are limited based on TIW membership.

But maybe WDW just doesn't need us anymore. Maybe they're making more money off non-residents and non-DVC guests and we're just costing them money with our discounts.

As for me, if this is true, and if it begins affecting where I can dine... well, it'll be the end of my dining on-site for table service. Frankly, I can make better at home and cook it in a studio microwave, and for a lot less money!

 

[Brian Noble]

Given the way Disney works, I would expect the TIW discount to be honored if you possess a card in your name, even if it wasn't coded in the reservation. The first rule in the Disney Guest Services Playbook is "Thou shalt not say no to a Guest unless you absolutely have to." After all, this is the same organization that will allow adults to order off kids menus, etc.

 

[crisi]

...

Being that I am a Tables in Wonderland carrier as well, and I am visiting Walt Disney World during Premier Week (December 26-January 1) I am becoming very concerned of making Dining Reservations. Thankfully we are also Disney Vacation Club members and have a kitchen - so I'll just save my money and not bother with eating on property if this is the case!!
[/B]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if what Jim and Brian are supposing is true, threating to not eat in their restaurants is exactly what they want to hear. They are filling tables (particularly at that time of year) and would rather fill tables with high margin customers who don't use discounts.

I suspect this may be a sign that discounting has gotten out of hand for Disney - that there are few people paying the prices listed on the menus - and that the people they most want in their restaurants - the clueless first timer staying at a Deluxe with no Dining Plan lots of cash to spend and no ADRs - isn't able to spend their money.

Not that they don't like us TiW holders, or the DDPers, or the AP passholders. But if you can get someone willing to pay you $30 for the steak, or someone who is only paying $40 for the whole meal PLUS a counterservice meal, or someone who is only paying $24 for the steak - as a business - who's backend do you want in that seat? Frankly, your loyalty isn't worth much if I'm not making margin on you today - and for DVCers that's doubly true - all their margin on us for our hotel room was made when we purchased - our DVC stays are doing very little for Disney's profit today. They get out souvienier dollars (but after ten Disney trips in three years, how many ballcaps do you need?), our park admission (often at a very low per day rate for DVCers with an annual pass) and our restaurant dollars (which with a TiW card, is less profitable for them than filling an in demand seat with someone willing to pay full price).

 

[Brian Noble]

Exactly.

My only twist is that the clueless first-timer is, I suspect, more likely to be on DDP (or even DxDP), becuase they are pushed very hard by travel agents and WDTC at booking time. The agents push it becuase if they pre-sell it, they get a higher commission on the higher package price. It is also important to Disney, because it is another leg on the three-legged Destination Disney table (DDP, MYW, and ME) that helps guarantee that every minute and dollar of your vacation is spent with Mickey.

So, from a "first principles" point of view, I'm not entirely sure how DDP plays into this.

 

[crisi]

Exactly.

My only twist is that the clueless first-timer is, I suspect, more likely to be on DDP (or even DxDP), becuase they are pushed very hard by travel agents and WDTC at booking time. The agents push it becuase if they pre-sell it, they get a higher commission on the higher package price. It is also important to Disney, because it is another leg on the three-legged Destination Disney table (DDP, MYW, and ME) that helps guarantee that every minute and dollar of your vacation is spent with Mickey.

So, from a "first principles" point of view, I'm not entirely sure how DDP plays into this.

Yeah, they are probably pushed hard, but honestly, Disney WANTS that full fare paying guest.

I had an accounting prof once say "the customer you want is the stupid rich guy - unfortunately, its a small market, but if you corner it, you'll make money hand over fist."

 

[ford91exploder]

I've noticed being a DVC'er and usually adding the Deluxe Dining Plan I can usually get what I want up to and including CRT, IF I am willing to be flexible about times. DW and I usually give MS a 2 hour window centered around when we want to eat if we want to eat at 7 we say we prefer 7 but anytime between 6 and 8 PM is ok.

But it certainly makes sense that Disney would prioritize those PAYING for dining over those who were granted Dining as an incentive and especially those paying for a premium dining tier albeit the lowest level of premium dining.

 

[brookelizabeth]

Well done.

Does anyone have the e-address to send a question/complaint to?

Thank you-I hope others are saying something too. I don't expect we'll get any changes out of it all, but maybe some clear answers.

The address was in Cyndi's email, but here it is again: wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if what Jim and Brian are supposing is true, threating to not eat in their restaurants is exactly what they want to hear. They are filling tables (particularly at that time of year) and would rather fill tables with high margin customers who don't use discounts.

I suspect this may be a sign that discounting has gotten out of hand for Disney - that there are few people paying the prices listed on the menus - and that the people they most want in their restaurants - the clueless first timer staying at a Deluxe with no Dining Plan lots of cash to spend and no ADRs - isn't able to spend their money.

Not that they don't like us TiW holders, or the DDPers, or the AP passholders. But if you can get someone willing to pay you $30 for the steak, or someone who is only paying $40 for the whole meal PLUS a counterservice meal, or someone who is only paying $24 for the steak - as a business - who's backend do you want in that seat? Frankly, your loyalty isn't worth much if I'm not making margin on you today - and for DVCers that's doubly true - all their margin on us for our hotel room was made when we purchased - our DVC stays are doing very little for Disney's profit today. They get out souvienier dollars (but after ten Disney trips in three years, how many ballcaps do you need?), our park admission (often at a very low per day rate for DVCers with an annual pass) and our restaurant dollars (which with a TiW card, is less profitable for them than filling an in demand seat with someone willing to pay full price).

Good point-and you are most likely right!! I am sure during our week they would rather have the full priced person in the seat than the one with the discount card....and during my week, it's gonna fill regardless.

I agree with you that we do have discounted rooms with DVC, and they might not make as much off us in souviner dollars, or even ticket dollars-but they obviously do make more money off us than it costs - otherwise they wouldn't be advertising DVC all over, and it truly would be "the best kept secret".

 

[Starr W.]

Exactly.

My only twist is that the clueless first-timer is, I suspect, more likely to be on DDP (or even DxDP), becuase they are pushed very hard by travel agents and WDTC at booking time. The agents push it becuase if they pre-sell it, they get a higher commission on the higher package price. It is also important to Disney, because it is another leg on the three-legged Destination Disney table (DDP, MYW, and ME) that helps guarantee that every minute and dollar of your vacation is spent with Mickey.

So, from a "first principles" point of view, I'm not entirely sure how DDP plays into this.

Yep, those TA's really push the DDP. Was talking to one about a cruise and we got on to Disney. Telling me what a great deal Free Dining was!

And the kicker, it's really easy to get ADR's for that period. , but she'll do the booking for you, while you sit there.

 

[DVC Mike]

I never mention I have the Tables in Wonderland (TIW nee DDE) card when I check in at a restaurant, and I'm sure not going to mention it when I make a reservation.

I'll just hand it to them along with my credit card when I pay the bill.

 

[Starr W.]

I never mention I have the Tables in Wonderland (TIW nee DDE) card when I check in at a restaurant, and I'm sure not going to mention it when I make a reservation.

I'll just hand it to them along with my credit card when I pay the bill.

Me either, I just hand it to them with my credit card.

 

[Sammie]

Ok, I have not had time to read all the posts, but this is the situation in a nut shell.

Many diners have complained about the effects free dining has had on the upper scale restaurants of being crowded, the menus being changed to reflect lower cost offerings, etc. you have all read the complaints.

Also Disney right now as are many companies are doing everything they can to be cost effective.

So basically dining availiblity will be limited at certain restaurants for users of any discounts, be it TIW, DVC, or free dining. It will be irrelvant where you are staying or which discount you wish to use, using any discount will result in limited seating at certain restaurants. The individual restuarants are being allowed to determine how many tables will be allowed booking with a discount, and this can change seasonally and I do not know which restuarants they are. But I would guess the higher price ones.

If you are asked if you have any dining discount and you do not disclose the info at the time of the booking very likely you will not be able to use the discount at the time of paying. This would completely defeat the purpose of the change and as with all Disney programs it might take a while to tweak it but they will work it out to prevent this.

Basically certain restaurants are limiting, the number of tables to be booked and use a discount.

It has nothing to do with where you are staying but more about do you wish to use a discount at this particular restaurant.

This way for example LeCellier will not be completely booked during free dining with free dining guests.

 

[Greysword]

Good letter, Brooke.

I agree with your thoughts. It would be kind of silly from a monetary standpoint to keep DVC from getting ADRs, since we have an alternative, which guarentees Disney gets $0...the Kitchen!

If DVCers DO get the DDP, they are paying for it outright. In addition, it seems Disney would prefer to entice DVC members out of their homes and into the restaurants for most meals, which on't happen if we can't get the ressies (especially during Free Dining). On last thought, if many people are on a free dining plan, then any discounted $$$ Disney receives from DVC, AP, TIW, etc is more than that division is receiving from free diners at other resorts. I don't think limiting DVC is a good business decision.

Oh...one last thought on this, better ADRs would be a marketing point for selling DVC, but worse ADRs could hinder future buyers.

 

[Tara]

I never mention I have the Tables in Wonderland (TIW nee DDE) card when I check in at a restaurant, and I'm sure not going to mention it when I make a reservation.

I'll just hand it to them along with my credit card when I pay the bill.

The problem might be that they won't honor the discount at time of service. (I hope not, but it could turn out to be the case.) I equate it with AP room discounts - you have to book the room from the pool of limited availability. You can't just show up, show your AP and expect the discounted rate to be honored.

Believe me, I REALLY hope this isn't true!

 

[Sammie]

The problem might be that they won't honor the discount at time of service. (I hope not, but it could turn out to be the case.) I equate it with AP room discounts - you have to book the room from the pool of limited availability. You can't just show up, show your AP and expect the discounted rate to be honored.

Believe me, I REALLY hope this isn't true!

It is true, see my post above.

 

[JimC]

The problem might be that they won't honor the discount at time of service. (I hope not, but it could turn out to be the case.) I equate it with AP room discounts - you have to book the room from the pool of limited availability. You can't just show up, show your AP and expect the discounted rate to be honored.

Believe me, I REALLY hope this isn't true!

I wonder how they could refuse it. The only restrictions mentioned as part of the sale of TIW are eight holidays, Fantasmic dinner packages, Food & Wine dinners and Candlelight Packages. Refusing to honor it, unless the restaurant drops the program entirely, would appear to be inconsistent with what was sold. Changes in participating restaurants are to be announced in TIW newsletters.