Wow. I didn't know people actually did this!!

[Dean]

I have never been on a timeshare tour. Are you saying that each couple (or individual) who attends has someone one on one as their saleperson? I always had the picture in my mind of a roomful of folks being shown a presentation by one or two salespersons. If indeed it is a one on one thing I can see how it wouldn't be particularly nice to take up that person's time. But if it's a group lecture I don't see how it really hurts any one salesman. Perhaps you can clear this up for me?

Exactly. Think of it like a car dealership but you make an appointment and have a specified minimum time commitment. I say minimum because it usually goes over the generally stated 90 minute tour by about 30-60 minutes, more in some cases. Though I did get one recently where the stated commitment was 60 minutes. You are there one on one for the entire time other than the additional "supervisors" and closers they send your way. It reminds me of a Toyota dealership where I was in the midst of calling the police to say I was being help hostage (similar to the story above), or at least my car (potential trade in) was. I know of a number of ugly tours out of the country where they bus you to an unknown location and refuse to transport you back or even to give your kids back in a couple of cases. And I know of a couple of instances of locked doors and 6 hours and at least one where physical harm was promised if they didn't buy.

You don't think one in five would buy if they did it as a big group, do you? Its really comes down to some very skilled manipulators reading your personal cues and playing you like a fiddle. As a rule, they require both spouses to attend to get the perks. And in many cases they won't tour singles, esp females (not being sexist, just honest).

 

[DisFlan]

Thank you, Dean. I stand corrected.

DisFlan

 

[CarolA]

Got an "Invitation" from Fairfield today for a 3 night stay in Daytona Beach for $99. Lots of other stuff all in BIG print. WAY down at the bottom in teeny tiny print (which now that I am past 40 is very hard to read) was the part about taking a tour. I figure if you want to "hide" the truth on the ad, folks are entitled to take advantage of it. LOL!

 

[NJOYURLIFE]

but I felt that I had to respond one last time. Again, DISFLAN, I did take your comments and posts as a personal attack especially since they were in regards to my posts. Again, everyone has reasons for what they did, and unlike Dean who posted the different scenarios for some of the tours he did, I did not feel the need and still do not feel the need to explain.

Dean, I have always respected you, both your posts here and on TUG (my tug ID is SOS8260456). I feel that we are both on the same levels and knowledge in regards to timesharing, but as I have noticed you have posted on both boards much more than me, so I do think you may have just a bit more experience. You have gone on more than one timeshare presentation for whatever reasons through your years of timesharing, so do you consider yourself tacky?

DISFLAN commented about people being desparate for $100. We personally are not desparate for the money and have other reasons for why we go on the tours, but to call people who may only be able to go on vacation by taking the great timeshare accomadations, tickets, or cash desperate is very tacky in my humble opinion.

Then again, on the lighter side, today we went to check in at Split Rock Lodge for the week (they frequently send postcards for free DVC players and $30 gas for the tour-the poster who said they got a postcard, it is probably for here). Anyway, we forgot to hit the MAC machine before we got up there (we only live 30 minutes away), and we had to borrow the quarter toll to get into the place from my 11 year old, so maybe we are desperate people-lol.

Again, our reasons for what we do our ours and I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions however judgemental they may be.

I also thank those who emailed me personally for their comments and support.

I do need to get a tougher DIS board skin.

 

[Dean]

Dean, I have always respected you, both your posts here and on TUG (my tug ID is SOS8260456). I feel that we are both on the same levels and knowledge in regards to timesharing, but as I have noticed you have posted on both boards much more than me, so I do think you may have just a bit more experience. You have gone on more than one timeshare presentation for whatever reasons through your years of timesharing, so do you consider yourself tacky?

No, as I said, IMO it boils down to intent. If the intent is simply for the perks on a repeated basis, I do feel that is tacky. Others may feel differently and it is certainly not a black and white issue. As I acknowledged, the developers do set the rules. BTW, Fern said exactly the same thing on TUG at one point far more strongly than has been said in this thread. My guess is that you do it for other reasons and the perks are simply a side benefit. BTW, I have refused the perks on many of my tours, other than the marriott points. I've probably done 9 all together not counting the impromptu and open house type settings. My remarks were never directed at you or anyone specific, just a general discussion of the issues.

 

[tjkraz]

NJOYURLIFE:

For whatever it's worth, I think you're taking it a little too personally.

I do understand your motivation for responding, but consider the fact that the OP did not mention you by name, quote the post being referenced or go to any other length to draw attention to you "personally." In lieu of such actions, I think it's hard to call it a PERSONAL attack.

And while the post did include somewhat inflammatory words like "dishonest" and "desperate", I think the true intent of the post was to spark discussion and obtain feedback from others. And that's exactly what has happened.

In the end, you'll get a dozen different points-of-view...none more correct than another. Don't sweat it.

Be well.

 

[OneMoreTry]

I went on one timeshare sales tour. It was at Heavenly Valley in North Tahoe. DW and I had absolutely no intent to buy. We went for the $50 in casino tokens. After the 90 minute presentation we actually thought of buying for a few minutes. They were GOOD at selling. (We both love to ski.) Tahoe is a loooong way from home. We usually ski in CO or Utah.

The point is that we got the prize offered -- and they got someone to consider a sale. I wouldn't feel the least bit guilty for doing the same tour again and again. I wouldn't though because it would be too boring.

We ran the $50 through the slots and left with $35 in pocket.

 

[DisFlan]

NO, they come out of developer advertising budget and it's usually about 50% of the sale price of a new timeshare, give or take a little.

Is this what the "developers points" are that DVC uses as incentives? The veil begins to lift.

DisFlan

 

[idratherbeinwdw]

Thanks for taking the time to explain how Timeshare Promotions work Dean, it was enlightening.

Still, I have to say, that as long as the Promoters keep advertising the way they do (making it seem like it's a free trip in which you just happen to have to listen to a sales pitch), I see no reason for anyone to feel guilty taking them up on their offer.

Surely the salespeople are well aware a certain percentage of clients have no intention at all of buying. Every sales job has folks that are "just looking", and those who take a job selling had better have a thick skin or find another job. IMO, there is no excuse to treat anyone with contempt or as if they have "wasted your time". You (or your company) invited them, they showed up having made no promise of anything other than to listen to your sales spiel. No one did anything illegal or immoral, they just responded to an offer made by the timeshare company. Is it frustrating and annoying to the salesperson? Probably, but it's still part of their job.

And I will say it once more--and others in this thread have said it too--If it's a choice of not being able to afford WDW or doing all you can to stretch your dollars to visit, I see nothing wrong with taking a tour you have been invited to attend. I don't see how it's unethical, as those who go to the presentations have made no false promises and are attending, for the most part, by invitation.

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

Well put, Idratherbeinwdw!

Taking this another step toward theatre of the absurd:

Would it be better if we didn't take advantage of the Chase Disney Visa rewards, cause it might be coming out of Chase bank customer's checking accounts?

Or should I eschew the National car rental $20 off coupon, because the cost might be passed on to other customers.

Should I not enter a contest because I might hurt someone elses chance of winning?

To be fair, when I was in RealEstate, I would have open houses where I would pay for food and drink. I'd place an ad and have a sign out front. I knew that the chances of the eventual buyer of the property walking in the door were slim, and that most of the people were lookyloos, but that is the nature of the business. Being informative and friendly was my goal. As long as the lookys were respectful of the property and friendly, I had no complaints.

DVC proves that timeshares can be sold without high pressure tactics. Unfortunately, most other developers don't seem able to shift their perceptions. Until they do, getting as many people through the door with as many 'free gifts' as they can, and then trying as many psychological approaches to SELLING as they can and hoping for a sale will continue.
If I were a developer, I'd cut my cost to buy by the bulk of the ad budget.
I'd advertise that you didn't get any free gifts to come to the presentation, but you did get a product that was MORE than the competitions and for LESS money. THe sad thing is that it still wouldn't work because of the competition's resale market from people who bought at outrageous prices and now just want to get out from the debt of the ever increasing maintenance costs. Orlando's market is saturated. We are lucky that Disney is 'something else' and that our investment is still protected. WHew!!!!

 

[Dean]

Is this what the "developers points" are that DVC uses as incentives? The veil begins to lift.

DisFlan

To a degree I'm sure. Since they own a the unsold portion at SSR and a small portion of the other resorts, they can use that as collateral for the points given out. It really costs them nothing unless the resort would have been near capacity with cash rentals anyway.

hanks for taking the time to explain how Timeshare Promotions work Dean, it was enlightening.

Still, I have to say, that as long as the Promoters keep advertising the way they do (making it seem like it's a free trip in which you just happen to have to listen to a sales pitch), I see no reason for anyone to feel guilty taking them up on their offer.

Not a problem. Remember the point of discussion is about people who do it repeatedly and simply for the perks. We're not talking unsuspecting people who fall for the spiel but seasoned veterans some of whom essentially do this as a hobby. But I can see both sides and I'll say again, the company does set the rules and I can see points of view that they get what they ask for. The worst thing is that I want to see the resorts and find out about them. I'd do one a day if they'd let me, my wife would consent and it wasn't for the fact I'd be taking a spot for someone who might truly be willing to buy. Funny that I did finally buy my first developer purchase on my last tour, but it was a special case.

 

[Judique]

Quote[And in many cases they won't tour singles, esp females (not being sexist, just honest).[/QUOTE]

Ummm.......I am single and before I bought DVC I toured a number of places as a single female. I realize you said 'many', not 'all', but from my experience I think you are incorrect in 'many' cases. Just meet the income guidelines and they want you, single or couple.

And, I will say that in touring, one offer I took advantage of was from Sheraton's Vistana Villages. I was in Boston staying at the Boston Sheraton in Copley. Day after day the lady at the timeshare desk would speak to me, and try to get me to sit down and talk. One afternoon, I had a bit of extra time so I sat down. I was offerred 4 nights/5 days at Vistana Villages for 199$ and a 90 minute tour. I said no thanks. She sweetened the offer, with 8000 starpoints. I took it, after she called and got me a reservation in a one bedroom unit(the 800 plus sf one) over the Easter break. I did not own a timeshare at the time. We arrived in Orlando, checked in on a Sunday, and I took the tour Monday morning at 7:30am. There was a continental breakfast and then I went one on one with the salesman. He was not in my opinion overly high pressure. By 9am I was on my way back to my unit. I did not buy, but I was interested in their system. I was not bothered (contacted) again while I was there. All told, it was a good experience. Great place, beautiful unit - but I'm happier with DVC.

Another tour I've taken is Fairfield. Horrible. Now that I've experienced DVC and Sheraton, I would never consider them.

And, Marriott I have never toured, but they keep calling. The lastest offer was for a few days in Hilton Head. Tempting, but - I've already bought DVC, and I tell them that each time they call. Perhaps they figure that since I've bitten once, maybe I'll bite again.

 

[Dean]

Ummm.......I am single and before I bought DVC I toured a number of places as a single female. I realize you said 'many', not 'all', but from my experience I think you are incorrect in 'many' cases. Just meet the income guidelines and they want you, single or couple.

Trust me, many will not. And very few will do it as a single if you're married no matter what you tell them. And the ones that do will almost never give you tour perks. I do suspect it's easier to get a single tour if you sign up for a package as once you get there they are stuck.

 

[tjkraz]

Trust me, many will not. And very few will do it as a single if you're married no matter what you tell them. And the ones that do will almost never give you tour perks. I do suspect it's easier to get a single tour if you sign up for a package as once you get there they are stuck.

I'm with Dean on this one. My wife works part time I'll often ask her to take the first pass at getting quotes from a contractor whenever we want to have some work done on the house. She's had everyone from window installers to roofers flat-out refuse to come to the house unless both of us would be present.

 

[lllovell]

I'm with Dean on this one. My wife works part time I'll often ask her to take the first pass at getting quotes from a contractor whenever we want to have some work done on the house. She's had everyone from window installers to roofers flat-out refuse to come to the house unless both of us would be present.

To me this works in my favor. If you won't talk to me alone, the you are a high pressure sales company that is going to come and set up camp in my house and not leave until I have to get rude and kick you out. I have better things to do with my time, I can find a better company to deal with, and 100% of the time, I can get a better deal. Won't talk to me alone? (btw - I am the main money spending decision maker in my house) Ok by me. Thanks for telling me I didn't want to use your company up front!

 

[Dean]

Actually Judique, I could have said most and be just as correct looking outside the US as well. But Marriott and DVC would tend to be different. All of those special deals I've looked at require both spouses to attend or they charge you more money AND you don't get the prizes.

 

[drakethib]

What I find more dishonest is the sales tour yourself. They say 90 minutes.... I have heard LOTS of stories of 4 hours and being abused by salesperson. (One salesman told a friend of mine that if she would get off her fat behind, not the word he used, and get a job her DH could afford the timeshare!)

Had someone spoke to my wife in such a manner,the less he would have gotten a foot in his fat behind, more then likely a great deal more.

 

[drakethib]

A thread on the Budget board just absolutely floored me. "Timeshare tours for cash".

People do tours for $70 or $100 or gifts and free meals, etc., and they may do them numerous times each trip and plan the ones they'll do next time. Just for the money or goodies. Some of them even complained about the quality of the free meals.

I know tours can be a PITA and sales people can be pretty scuzzy, but does anyone but me think this is just flat out dishonest??

Maybe I've just never been desperate enough for a $100 and a mediocre meal while I'm on vacation. But I could sure think of better ways to help pay for my trip.

DisFlan

Personally I wouldn't do this unless I wanted to possibly buy a unit or wanted to see what the place looked like.

But by all means, I don't think it is tacky or whatever for people to do this.

These "gifts" are a sales tactic to get you there much like Casino in Las Vegas who offer free buffets or comped meals.

When they get you there, they have a shot at your money. It is up to you to decide if you are going to give it to them or not.

If I were to commit to a presentation, I would definetly not tolerate high pressure sales tatics if I decided against it. I hear stories of sales people crying and such if they did not make the sale stating they would get fired.

Why would a person tolerate such BS?

 

[gopherit]

The one time my DH and I were asked to do one of those type high-pressure sales things, we asked too many questions. It was a group-type pitch, and our questions I guess started making others ask questions they wouldn't have, otherwise.

We were never asked back again.

To me, time is money, and I need to place a value on my time. How much is three hours of my time worth right now, this very minute? Not too much, given that my kids are asleep, DH is watching a movie, there's nothing I really have to do -- it's my time to kick back, so what the hey. But how much is my time worth on vacation, with my family, down in Orlando, for those few days per year?

Priceless.

TO each his own, but not for me, no thanks, sez I.

 

[Beach_Bound9]

Well, some locals just drop in and use the pools like they had a club membership. Takes all kinds.

Had someone spoke to my wife in such a manner,the less he would have gotten a foot in his fat behind, more then likely a great deal more.

Uhh... that's assault sir. Are you really planning to assault an individual over inappropriate comments?