I don't think anyone was calling anyone names. Our neighbors, and friends, are off on a DCL cruise this summer. If I only got a week or 2 vacation a year, I might use the money on a Disney cruise. Right now, I get 4 weeks vacation and am looking to spread my vacation allowance as far as I can. I think the reason people like us post is there is so much misinformation out there. People read about other lines giving you a drink package and assume everyone is drunk. Um, no. Maybe on some shorter Caribbean cruises, but when we've sailed Europe (twice) on a ship where lots of people had the drink package we never saw a single person drunk. Honestly, 17 days and not 1 drunk. And the cigarette smoke - I have asthma and can not stand it, but you can avoid it on the other lines. You just have to do a little research first. We think the food we've had on the other lines was better than DCL. No one needs to justify their vacations to anyone else. I just want everyone to realize there are options. We did our first 3 cruises on DCL because we figured we had a kid and we had to. Once we got brave enough to try something new it felt like a whole new world of possibilities opened up. I still check DCL prices all the time. Maybe we'll sail them again someday.
I guess we don't notice the king/2 twin thing anymore. If you go to Europe, that's all there is. It's pretty difficult to find rooms that will even hold more than 2. When you go it's always 2 twins pushed together to make a king.
Two twin beds put together... When each stay on their side, we don't feel the difference.
I booked the Anthem if the Seas once (unfortunately had to cancel). The cabins look very luxurious... Especially the bathroom.
"Each stay on their side"? A lot of people like to cuddle in the middle. But regardless, the bottom line is that you'll enjoy your cruise and I'll enjoy mine. No need for arguing.Two twin beds put together... When each stay on their side, we don't feel the difference.
I booked the Anthem if the Seas once (unfortunately had to cancel). The cabins look very luxurious... Especially the bathroom.
meant...
Norwegian is on my list too. I wish I could try all cruiselines this year but I would need more vacation and more budget."
WOW. lol. I read the first couple of pages when they were posted but got bored and have not been following this thread. But I did just read the last couple of posts and all I can say is wow, very heavy. Don't worry so much about what other people think!I was going to just forget about it and be a casual observer, but the more I've familiarized myself with these boards, the more I felt I had to say a few things.
First, there's this:
I've never sailed on Carnival. But I've read a TON of message board posts, mostly on Cruise Critic but also on here. That has given me enough familiarity to state that, personally, I don't feel Carnival is up to Disney's standards. I don't need to go on a cruise to make that determination, because thousands of other people have had those experiences, and I've used their feedback to shape my opinions. You may feel I've reached a "wrong" conclusion, but that's not really for you to decide. I don't need to experience it myself to shape an opinion; if that were the case, why would anybody read/write reviews or post to message boards?
And before you jump down my throat, I'd invite you to re-visit post #1 on your "Carnival vs. DCL comparison thread". There, you highlight several comments from individuals who have not sailed on DCL but have sailed on Carnival, yet are making declarative statements comparing the two.
So I can't make judgments on Carnival without sailing on them, but others can make judgments on DCL without sailing on a Disney ship? Sounds like a double standard to me.
Another tidbit from that "comparison thread": in post #81, you respond to someone who suggests you would like "RCCL WAY more than Carnival". Your response? Here it is:
"We can't miss what we've never tried.
RCCL is next in line and I definitely want to try it in 2018.
I find this response to be completely reasonable, and I too would like to try all the cruise lines this year. However, you have the gall to say this to me:
My loss? I thought you can't miss what you haven't tried? I guess that only applies to you. Hey look, another double standard.
Considering the size of my family, where we live, what is important to us, etc., we probably only have the ability to take 1 cruise a year. Based on the countless hours (more like days or weeks) I've put into researching cruises after getting off our first one last year, I'm not willing to sacrifice our family's vacation just to try something else. The opportunity cost is simply too great. And you admit as much in your quote above... "I wish I could try all cruiselines this year but I would need more vacation and more budget." Again, a double standard... it's okay that YOU haven't gotten to try all the cruise lines due to financial/opportunity costs, but I'm wrong if I don't want to try other lines due to the same constraints, and instead make decisions based on the experience of others (again, why do these boards exist?).
Finally, to suggest that I should remove 'the mouse' from the equation when considering DCL is absolutely preposterous. It seems you don't understand that "the theming and the mouse" are WHAT MAKES Disney Cruise Line what it is for so many, including my family.
As I've said over and over again in this thread, if YOU want to remove the theming, mouse, etc., you have every right to. And if you do that, I can absolutely see how you might find more value in other lines. No doubt about it. However, to suggest that I should do that is like me suggesting that you should consider the availability of a nursery or the number of beers on tap... those things are likely irrelevant to you, but they're important to me, so therefore YOU should care about them! Instead, I would encourage you to understand why those of us that see the value in DCL do, and engage in conversation accordingly without trying to sell everybody on Carnival 24/7.
__________
I entered this conversation because the OP expressed frustration with pricing on other lines compared to DCL. Like me, she struggled to find these half-price cruises everybody talks about. I told her I agreed with her, and in my experience those half-price deals are usually not 'apples to apples' comparisons. 'Apples to apples' is about a lot more than room size/layout, but that's a great place to start.
- In terms of space, I'm looking for enough room for my family (two children under 5). That means a king/queen bed for my wife and I, and two separate/safe sleeping spaces for our two children (including space for a crib through 2019, probably). The split bath (and presence of a tub) is awfully nice, too, though not a deal-breaker.
Once you get to a room that size, it's usually not "half price", unless you're talking about June/July or late December holiday pricing. At those times, DCL may well be double... but not always. Remove those 2.5 months, and the other 9.5 months are much closer. I you have different needs for your family of 4, and can get by with a different arrangement, I hold nothing against you. I simply ask that you hold nothing against me for stating that the majority of the time my family cannot get the accommodations it desires for 'half the price'.
Aside from the room, I'm looking for the following things:
- Family-friendly entertainment options, especially in the evenings before/after dinner.
- Availability of a nursery for kids under 3 (for the next 2.5 years, at least)
- Great kids club
DCL was built for families, and in my experience (and reading), I don't think anybody else comes close in this regard. The evening shows (my son LOVED the Golden Mickeys, Believe, and Villains Tonight on the Dream... all when he was 3), the characters everywhere, the splash pad, movies, the kids club and nursery... it's just perfect for us, right now. A user over on CC's DCL forum agrees:
"We have been on 30 cruises, six Disney. We sail sometimes three times a year-- this year, four times. If you have children and you can afford it, nobody compares to Disney. As a matter of fact, the others are laughable compared to Disney. Disney can't be topped in entertainment, souvenirs, shops, or food. Their disembarkation is the best as well, in my opinion. Second best-- again, my opinion-- Princess. Royal Caribbean used to be a favorite but not lately."
That's just one review (posted yesterday), but that is pretty consistent with what I've read over the last year. That's from somebody who DOES have the experience (30 cruises, 6 Disney). I've only been on one cruise, but our 4-night cruise on the Disney Dream was literally the best vacation of our lives. With kids the ages that we have, the price would have to be extraordinarily lower to get us to cruise elsewhere, at least for a few years.
You may disagree with my assessment, and that is completely fine. But for my vacation dollars, DCL gets the best return for my money given my current family situation. If your kids are all over 3 years old, or are only a family of 3, or don't like the Disney shows, or don't like Disney's kids club, then I wouldn't expect you to agree with my assessment of value. That doesn't make either of us wrong; it makes us different.
In 5-10 years, this will likely change for us, and we will change our vacation planning accordingly. But for families of 4-5 with kids of a similar age to me that enjoy the 'mouse', and parents that are also huge Disney fans and enjoy all things Disney, DCL provides a whole lot of value that can make up for the higher initial price.
I hope it's clear that I don't assume everybody sees cruising the way I do... heck, as much as my wife and I love Disney, we would not cruise DCL as a couple. That's a totally different situation. Many (most) of the responses have been understanding and respectful of these differences. But there are some that seem to insist there is a "right" way and a "wrong" way, and that DCL is always overpriced.... that's simply wrong.
__________
Somebody else on here decided to really come after me and question just about everything I said for while, including this response:
I subsequently defended myself about 'bashing' other cruise lines (which I never did), and received this response:
Go up and read the entire first quoted response above. How can you honestly say that you weren't referring to me? You're talking about me the entire time. Seriously, you're telling me "if you don't mind paying the premium then own it," but you can't own the fact that you called me out for something I didn't do. Instead, you defer by stating "I was speaking in general terms." This is complete and utter nonsense.
And as far as 'owning' paying the premium, I think I've been quite clear on that. I'm okay paying it because the value I receive back is better than the value I would receive elsewhere, even if I paid less. So there, I owned it.
__________
There are a select few people that poke and prod, typically with a disposition that sounds pretty negative, but then back off when pressed and faced with facts by stating they were 'speaking generally', 'are curious', 'were only joking', or are confronted with proof of a double standard. I don't have the patience for such people, and I don't believe that such actions should be tolerated. That's why I'm calling them out; it's simply disingenuous. I could care less how long they've been on this board or how many posts they have; bad behavior is bad behavior, and I won't stand for it. The DIS Boards are really too valuable a resource to have that kind of stuff going on.
I look forward to continuing to read these boards and participate when I feel it is appropriate. Unless their attitude changes, I will simply ignore posts made by certain individuals who just don't get it. I don't expect any sort of mea culpa or understanding from the 'haters', but as I said at the top, I just had to get this off my chest.
Cheers, happy sailing, all that good stuff...
I was going to just forget about it and be a casual observer, but the more I've familiarized myself with these boards, the more I felt I had to say a few things.
First, there's this:
I've never sailed on Carnival. But I've read a TON of message board posts, mostly on Cruise Critic but also on here. That has given me enough familiarity to state that, personally, I don't feel Carnival is up to Disney's standards. I don't need to go on a cruise to make that determination, because thousands of other people have had those experiences, and I've used their feedback to shape my opinions. You may feel I've reached a "wrong" conclusion, but that's not really for you to decide. I don't need to experience it myself to shape an opinion; if that were the case, why would anybody read/write reviews or post to message boards?
And before you jump down my throat, I'd invite you to re-visit post #1 on your "Carnival vs. DCL comparison thread". There, you highlight several comments from individuals who have not sailed on DCL but have sailed on Carnival, yet are making declarative statements comparing the two.
So I can't make judgments on Carnival without sailing on them, but others can make judgments on DCL without sailing on a Disney ship? Sounds like a double standard to me.
Another tidbit from that "comparison thread": in post #81, you respond to someone who suggests you would like "RCCL WAY more than Carnival". Your response? Here it is:
"We can't miss what we've never tried.
RCCL is next in line and I definitely want to try it in 2018.
I find this response to be completely reasonable, and I too would like to try all the cruise lines this year. However, you have the gall to say this to me:
My loss? I thought you can't miss what you haven't tried? I guess that only applies to you. Hey look, another double standard.
Considering the size of my family, where we live, what is important to us, etc., we probably only have the ability to take 1 cruise a year. Based on the countless hours (more like days or weeks) I've put into researching cruises after getting off our first one last year, I'm not willing to sacrifice our family's vacation just to try something else. The opportunity cost is simply too great. And you admit as much in your quote above... "I wish I could try all cruiselines this year but I would need more vacation and more budget." Again, a double standard... it's okay that YOU haven't gotten to try all the cruise lines due to financial/opportunity costs, but I'm wrong if I don't want to try other lines due to the same constraints, and instead make decisions based on the experience of others (again, why do these boards exist?).
Finally, to suggest that I should remove 'the mouse' from the equation when considering DCL is absolutely preposterous. It seems you don't understand that "the theming and the mouse" are WHAT MAKES Disney Cruise Line what it is for so many, including my family.
As I've said over and over again in this thread, if YOU want to remove the theming, mouse, etc., you have every right to. And if you do that, I can absolutely see how you might find more value in other lines. No doubt about it. However, to suggest that I should do that is like me suggesting that you should consider the availability of a nursery or the number of beers on tap... those things are likely irrelevant to you, but they're important to me, so therefore YOU should care about them! Instead, I would encourage you to understand why those of us that see the value in DCL do, and engage in conversation accordingly without trying to sell everybody on Carnival 24/7.
__________
I entered this conversation because the OP expressed frustration with pricing on other lines compared to DCL. Like me, she struggled to find these half-price cruises everybody talks about. I told her I agreed with her, and in my experience those half-price deals are usually not 'apples to apples' comparisons. 'Apples to apples' is about a lot more than room size/layout, but that's a great place to start.
- In terms of space, I'm looking for enough room for my family (two children under 5). That means a king/queen bed for my wife and I, and two separate/safe sleeping spaces for our two children (including space for a crib through 2019, probably). The split bath (and presence of a tub) is awfully nice, too, though not a deal-breaker.
Once you get to a room that size, it's usually not "half price", unless you're talking about June/July or late December holiday pricing. At those times, DCL may well be double... but not always. Remove those 2.5 months, and the other 9.5 months are much closer. I you have different needs for your family of 4, and can get by with a different arrangement, I hold nothing against you. I simply ask that you hold nothing against me for stating that the majority of the time my family cannot get the accommodations it desires for 'half the price'.
Aside from the room, I'm looking for the following things:
- Family-friendly entertainment options, especially in the evenings before/after dinner.
- Availability of a nursery for kids under 3 (for the next 2.5 years, at least)
- Great kids club
DCL was built for families, and in my experience (and reading), I don't think anybody else comes close in this regard. The evening shows (my son LOVED the Golden Mickeys, Believe, and Villains Tonight on the Dream... all when he was 3), the characters everywhere, the splash pad, movies, the kids club and nursery... it's just perfect for us, right now. A user over on CC's DCL forum agrees:
"We have been on 30 cruises, six Disney. We sail sometimes three times a year-- this year, four times. If you have children and you can afford it, nobody compares to Disney. As a matter of fact, the others are laughable compared to Disney. Disney can't be topped in entertainment, souvenirs, shops, or food. Their disembarkation is the best as well, in my opinion. Second best-- again, my opinion-- Princess. Royal Caribbean used to be a favorite but not lately."
That's just one review (posted yesterday), but that is pretty consistent with what I've read over the last year. That's from somebody who DOES have the experience (30 cruises, 6 Disney). I've only been on one cruise, but our 4-night cruise on the Disney Dream was literally the best vacation of our lives. With kids the ages that we have, the price would have to be extraordinarily lower to get us to cruise elsewhere, at least for a few years.
You may disagree with my assessment, and that is completely fine. But for my vacation dollars, DCL gets the best return for my money given my current family situation. If your kids are all over 3 years old, or are only a family of 3, or don't like the Disney shows, or don't like Disney's kids club, then I wouldn't expect you to agree with my assessment of value. That doesn't make either of us wrong; it makes us different.
In 5-10 years, this will likely change for us, and we will change our vacation planning accordingly. But for families of 4-5 with kids of a similar age to me that enjoy the 'mouse', and parents that are also huge Disney fans and enjoy all things Disney, DCL provides a whole lot of value that can make up for the higher initial price.
I hope it's clear that I don't assume everybody sees cruising the way I do... heck, as much as my wife and I love Disney, we would not cruise DCL as a couple. That's a totally different situation. Many (most) of the responses have been understanding and respectful of these differences. But there are some that seem to insist there is a "right" way and a "wrong" way, and that DCL is always overpriced.... that's simply wrong.
__________
Somebody else on here decided to really come after me and question just about everything I said for while, including this response:
I subsequently defended myself about 'bashing' other cruise lines (which I never did), and received this response:
Go up and read the entire first quoted response above. How can you honestly say that you weren't referring to me? You're talking about me the entire time. Seriously, you're telling me "if you don't mind paying the premium then own it," but you can't own the fact that you called me out for something I didn't do. Instead, you defer by stating "I was speaking in general terms." This is complete and utter nonsense.
And as far as 'owning' paying the premium, I think I've been quite clear on that. I'm okay paying it because the value I receive back is better than the value I would receive elsewhere, even if I paid less. So there, I owned it.
__________
There are a select few people that poke and prod, typically with a disposition that sounds pretty negative, but then back off when pressed and faced with facts by stating they were 'speaking generally', 'are curious', 'were only joking', or are confronted with proof of a double standard. I don't have the patience for such people, and I don't believe that such actions should be tolerated. That's why I'm calling them out; it's simply disingenuous. I could care less how long they've been on this board or how many posts they have; bad behavior is bad behavior, and I won't stand for it. The DIS Boards are really too valuable a resource to have that kind of stuff going on.
I look forward to continuing to read these boards and participate when I feel it is appropriate. Unless their attitude changes, I will simply ignore posts made by certain individuals who just don't get it. I don't expect any sort of mea culpa or understanding from the 'haters', but as I said at the top, I just had to get this off my chest.
Cheers, happy sailing, all that good stuff...
Justifying their own double standards, stating they aren't having fun, and calling others obsessive... again deflecting away from the actual issues, which they bring up but can't follow through on when pressed. More disingenuous nonsense.
Certain comments were directed at you, but believe me you are not the first person to argue square footage. There's been numerous threads on price comparisons. Thisi has actually been one of the more polite ones.I was going to just forget about it and be a casual observer, but the more I've familiarized myself with these boards, the more I felt I had to say a few things.
First, there's this:
I've never sailed on Carnival. But I've read a TON of message board posts, mostly on Cruise Critic but also on here. That has given me enough familiarity to state that, personally, I don't feel Carnival is up to Disney's standards. I don't need to go on a cruise to make that determination, because thousands of other people have had those experiences, and I've used their feedback to shape my opinions. You may feel I've reached a "wrong" conclusion, but that's not really for you to decide. I don't need to experience it myself to shape an opinion; if that were the case, why would anybody read/write reviews or post to message boards?
And before you jump down my throat, I'd invite you to re-visit post #1 on your "Carnival vs. DCL comparison thread". There, you highlight several comments from individuals who have not sailed on DCL but have sailed on Carnival, yet are making declarative statements comparing the two.
So I can't make judgments on Carnival without sailing on them, but others can make judgments on DCL without sailing on a Disney ship? Sounds like a double standard to me.
Another tidbit from that "comparison thread": in post #81, you respond to someone who suggests you would like "RCCL WAY more than Carnival". Your response? Here it is:
"We can't miss what we've never tried.
RCCL is next in line and I definitely want to try it in 2018.
I find this response to be completely reasonable, and I too would like to try all the cruise lines this year. However, you have the gall to say this to me:
My loss? I thought you can't miss what you haven't tried? I guess that only applies to you. Hey look, another double standard.
Considering the size of my family, where we live, what is important to us, etc., we probably only have the ability to take 1 cruise a year. Based on the countless hours (more like days or weeks) I've put into researching cruises after getting off our first one last year, I'm not willing to sacrifice our family's vacation just to try something else. The opportunity cost is simply too great. And you admit as much in your quote above... "I wish I could try all cruiselines this year but I would need more vacation and more budget." Again, a double standard... it's okay that YOU haven't gotten to try all the cruise lines due to financial/opportunity costs, but I'm wrong if I don't want to try other lines due to the same constraints, and instead make decisions based on the experience of others (again, why do these boards exist?).
Finally, to suggest that I should remove 'the mouse' from the equation when considering DCL is absolutely preposterous. It seems you don't understand that "the theming and the mouse" are WHAT MAKES Disney Cruise Line what it is for so many, including my family.
As I've said over and over again in this thread, if YOU want to remove the theming, mouse, etc., you have every right to. And if you do that, I can absolutely see how you might find more value in other lines. No doubt about it. However, to suggest that I should do that is like me suggesting that you should consider the availability of a nursery or the number of beers on tap... those things are likely irrelevant to you, but they're important to me, so therefore YOU should care about them! Instead, I would encourage you to understand why those of us that see the value in DCL do, and engage in conversation accordingly without trying to sell everybody on Carnival 24/7.
__________
I entered this conversation because the OP expressed frustration with pricing on other lines compared to DCL. Like me, she struggled to find these half-price cruises everybody talks about. I told her I agreed with her, and in my experience those half-price deals are usually not 'apples to apples' comparisons. 'Apples to apples' is about a lot more than room size/layout, but that's a great place to start.
- In terms of space, I'm looking for enough room for my family (two children under 5). That means a king/queen bed for my wife and I, and two separate/safe sleeping spaces for our two children (including space for a crib through 2019, probably). The split bath (and presence of a tub) is awfully nice, too, though not a deal-breaker.
Once you get to a room that size, it's usually not "half price", unless you're talking about June/July or late December holiday pricing. At those times, DCL may well be double... but not always. Remove those 2.5 months, and the other 9.5 months are much closer. I you have different needs for your family of 4, and can get by with a different arrangement, I hold nothing against you. I simply ask that you hold nothing against me for stating that the majority of the time my family cannot get the accommodations it desires for 'half the price'.
Aside from the room, I'm looking for the following things:
- Family-friendly entertainment options, especially in the evenings before/after dinner.
- Availability of a nursery for kids under 3 (for the next 2.5 years, at least)
- Great kids club
DCL was built for families, and in my experience (and reading), I don't think anybody else comes close in this regard. The evening shows (my son LOVED the Golden Mickeys, Believe, and Villains Tonight on the Dream... all when he was 3), the characters everywhere, the splash pad, movies, the kids club and nursery... it's just perfect for us, right now. A user over on CC's DCL forum agrees:
"We have been on 30 cruises, six Disney. We sail sometimes three times a year-- this year, four times. If you have children and you can afford it, nobody compares to Disney. As a matter of fact, the others are laughable compared to Disney. Disney can't be topped in entertainment, souvenirs, shops, or food. Their disembarkation is the best as well, in my opinion. Second best-- again, my opinion-- Princess. Royal Caribbean used to be a favorite but not lately."
That's just one review (posted yesterday), but that is pretty consistent with what I've read over the last year. That's from somebody who DOES have the experience (30 cruises, 6 Disney). I've only been on one cruise, but our 4-night cruise on the Disney Dream was literally the best vacation of our lives. With kids the ages that we have, the price would have to be extraordinarily lower to get us to cruise elsewhere, at least for a few years.
You may disagree with my assessment, and that is completely fine. But for my vacation dollars, DCL gets the best return for my money given my current family situation. If your kids are all over 3 years old, or are only a family of 3, or don't like the Disney shows, or don't like Disney's kids club, then I wouldn't expect you to agree with my assessment of value. That doesn't make either of us wrong; it makes us different.
In 5-10 years, this will likely change for us, and we will change our vacation planning accordingly. But for families of 4-5 with kids of a similar age to me that enjoy the 'mouse', and parents that are also huge Disney fans and enjoy all things Disney, DCL provides a whole lot of value that can make up for the higher initial price.
I hope it's clear that I don't assume everybody sees cruising the way I do... heck, as much as my wife and I love Disney, we would not cruise DCL as a couple. That's a totally different situation. Many (most) of the responses have been understanding and respectful of these differences. But there are some that seem to insist there is a "right" way and a "wrong" way, and that DCL is always overpriced.... that's simply wrong.
__________
Somebody else on here decided to really come after me and question just about everything I said for while, including this response:
I subsequently defended myself about 'bashing' other cruise lines (which I never did), and received this response:
Go up and read the entire first quoted response above. How can you honestly say that you weren't referring to me? You're talking about me the entire time. Seriously, you're telling me "if you don't mind paying the premium then own it," but you can't own the fact that you called me out for something I didn't do. Instead, you defer by stating "I was speaking in general terms." This is complete and utter nonsense.
And as far as 'owning' paying the premium, I think I've been quite clear on that. I'm okay paying it because the value I receive back is better than the value I would receive elsewhere, even if I paid less. So there, I owned it.
__________
There are a select few people that poke and prod, typically with a disposition that sounds pretty negative, but then back off when pressed and faced with facts by stating they were 'speaking generally', 'are curious', 'were only joking', or are confronted with proof of a double standard. I don't have the patience for such people, and I don't believe that such actions should be tolerated. That's why I'm calling them out; it's simply disingenuous. I could care less how long they've been on this board or how many posts they have; bad behavior is bad behavior, and I won't stand for it. The DIS Boards are really too valuable a resource to have that kind of stuff going on.
I look forward to continuing to read these boards and participate when I feel it is appropriate. Unless their attitude changes, I will simply ignore posts made by certain individuals who just don't get it. I don't expect any sort of mea culpa or understanding from the 'haters', but as I said at the top, I just had to get this off my chest.
Cheers, happy sailing, all that good stuff...
