Would you consider this cheating??

[MrsPete]

So, if you have 30 homework problems and you leave on blank because you just don't get it, it is a zero.

Well, then any sensible person would just MAKE AN ATTEMPT at the problem. If it's wrong, it's wrong . . . but you still tried, and it isn't a total zero. And my experience has been that VERY, VERY OFTEN when the kid TRIES the problem, he figures out for himself how to do it.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Not cheating. If a kid isn't getting a grade on it how can it be cheating? Isn't the kid just asking a question? Now if the teacher wanted to get upset that your son was being disruptive it might have been an over-reaction but at least it would have made sense to me.

Even so I wouldn't complain about it because she sounds like the sort who is very capable of spite, no good will come of it. If this happened to one of my kids I'd focus on how to deal with different personalities and take the pressure off the child.

 

[Magpie]

Not cheating. If a kid isn't getting a grade on it how can it be cheating? Isn't the kid just asking a question? Now if the teacher wanted to get upset that your son was being disruptive it might have been an over-reaction but at least it would have made sense to me.

Even so I wouldn't complain about it because she sounds like the sort who is very capable of spite, no good will come of it. If this happened to one of my kids I'd focus on how to deal with different personalities and take the pressure off the child.

I believe he is getting graded on it - otherwise a zero couldn't have affected his overall grade.

 

[marcyinPA]

I believe he is getting graded on it - otherwise a zero couldn't have affected his overall grade.

They were being graded on it, but they were also going over it as a class, in class. Unfortunately, he asked the wrong person for help. He should have asked the teacher. Lesson learned.

 

[luvsJack]

So she gave him a 0 for "cheating" on an assignment because he asked a classmate for help on a problem that she was going to give the answers to anyway? I don't understand her reaction to that at all. He could have just waited until they "went over" those problems and wrote the answer in.

It really doesn't make sense why she would react that way nor does it make any sense that he would lie about what he did sense the teacher was giving the answers anyway.

I guess I would chalk it up to lesson leared too, but I would really wonder why it matter if he asked a friend for help. If they had been turning the work in without going over it or if it had been a quiz or a test, sure, but in this particular instance I just don't get why she did what she did.

 

[bumbershoot]

When I went to school, we frequently did this for homework, that was what homework was for. To learn.

Agreed.


The teacher doesn't make sense. If she's going to grade this homework, she should NOT go over it BEFORE it is graded! If she's going to have the students correct the work, then she needs to have the papers switched around between classmates (something I despised as a student) OR have all students put away all pencils and ONLY have red pens out, so that cha!nges being made, notes being made, are obviously NOT part of the work already done, and aren't cheating.

If she's trying to have students be honest with their own papers, with their pencils there, and isn't allowing students to make notes WHILE she's going over the homework while they are expected to be grading them...she's not making sense.

IMO she is in the wrong, and she's not helping her students.

I learned the most when going over things that I didn't understand. Alas, I only realized this in grad school LOL, all those previous years I just ignored the things I didn't know and was embarrassed at wrong answers...but at least I figured it out eventually!

I still don't understand why homework is graded. I thought the purpose was practice and providing feedback about how much you know and how much you didn't pick up yet.

I can't say that that is how it was when I was in school, but it should be!





Cheating is when you have a *test* in front of you, you didn't study, and you have your notes under your test paper and you think you can get away with it b/c you are a good student and you sit all the way in back. When you get caught, you get an F, because it's a *test*. That's cheating. (English, 7th grade, me)

Figuring out how to do a problem while the homework is being gone over in class? Not cheating. The teacher needs to change how she's doing things.

 

[manning]

If it was a test, yes it is cheating. The test is to determine if you know the material. Learning the material comes before the test.

I didn't read all the post. I wish more teachers would do what one of mine did. He would collect the test for later grading. Then he would hand out a new set of the test and go over it. I learned more that way as my mistakes were fresh in my mind.

 

[GJM]

My DS has gone back to school with Math homework and nothing written in. And this is after DH or I have also tried to figure it out - Everyday Math is awful!!

The teacher tells the kids to try their best and if they don't understand we just have to sign the paper or the problems he doesn't understand.

I think the teacher overreacted.

 

[Agri]

What it sounds like to me is that the teacher was going over it and having the students grade their own paper. I've had several teachers who considered any talking to be cheating - no matter what.

If they were about to go over it, he didn't need to talk to his neighbor anyway. He just had to wait until they got to the problems he had trouble with and he would have gotten the help he needed.

It's fine to ask a peer for help, just not when the teacher's rules do not allow for it. I doubt this was the first time the teacher handled the homework this way, either, so its likely not a new scenario for the child to have to cope with.

 

[luvsJack]

What it sounds like to me is that the teacher was going over it and having the students grade their own paper. I've had several teachers who considered any talking to be cheating - no matter what.

If they were about to go over it, he didn't need to talk to his neighbor anyway. He just had to wait until they got to the problems he had trouble with and he would have gotten the help he needed.

It's fine to ask a peer for help, just not when the teacher's rules do not allow for it. I doubt this was the first time the teacher handled the homework this way, either, so its likely not a new scenario for the child to have to cope with.

If she is having them grade their own work, then she should have given them red pencils or pens to grade it with and had them put away their regular pencils.

If you allow students to grade their own papers AND you let them use pencils to do so, then you should expect them to change answers or fill in right answers.



Maybe he was afraid she would call on him for the problems he didn't know how to do and he didn't want to be embarrassed so he asked someone for a little help??

 

[melissapealo]

Thanks for the input. I did hear back from both of his teachers. His math teacher did refer to "the incident" as cheating. She also said she knows it is out of character for him.

My son maintains that he was asking for explanation from his friend on how to do the problem, not copying the answers down. If what he says is true...well....it doesn't matter much, because he should have just asked his teacher. He has learned a lesson.

He didn't tell me about it...and he should have. It happened two days ago. Like I said at the bottom of my post, we've had some junk going on at home, and I think he didn't tell me to spare me. He really is that kind of kid. I've been dealing with my older DS's issues, and younger one doesn't want to add more frustration. BUT, yes, he should have told me about it.

In answer to someone else...I'm worried sick, because I just can't deal with anything else right now. Too much going on. Nobody wants their kid to be known as a cheater. And nobody likes when their A student is bringing home C's and F's. I know it's not the end of the world, but it does affect me and unfortunately, I see it as a reflection on me. It's how I roll.

I actually am feeling better today after the email from the teachers. My DS has asked to change his seat, and has acknowledged that there are a few kids that he just can't sit near (gets a little too silly). He asked for extra credit today, and he apologized to his teachers (unprompted by me).

Thank you all!

Glad to hear that things worked out and that your feeling better about it. Obviously you've done a fine job raising him for him to ask for a seat change, extra credit and apologize. It appears he's owning up to being responsible for what happens in the class. Good luck with your older ds. My oldest ds is 17 so I know it can sure be trying at times.