Would you consider this cheating??

[marcyinPA]

First of all, I have to start by saying that this has been a crappy week as far as school goes for both of my boys.

My youngest (6th grade) brought home his IPR (mid-quarter grades) yesterday. He has a C- in reading. He is an A/B student, so of course, I was concerned. The rest of his grades were pretty good...B- in math...eh. Could be better.

So, I went on to our Parent Portal system, to try to get a better idea of why he's doing do poorly in reading. He got a 10% on one assignment, but he couldn't tell me why! At that point, I decided I was going to email the teacher.

I scrolled down to check the rest of the grades, and I noticed that his math grade dropped to a C-. In one week! One of the homework assignments showed as a 0. I asked my DS if he did his homework. He said yes. Then, he started to cry. Seems that he did his homework, but he didn't understand a couple of the problems so he left them blank. They were going over the problems in class, and he leaned to his neighbor to ask him for help...as in, explain this to me. Teacher looked up from her desk, said "Absolutely not", took DS's paper, and gave him a 0. DS didn't defend himself, he just took the 0.

While I understand that he should have asked his teacher for help, and not his neighbor, I'm really wrestling with the fact that she treated this as cheating and gave him a 0. He does not have a history of cheating. He wasn't copying off his neighbors paper (or so he says...). He was just asking for help.

I'm not really sure what to do. I sent an email asking for more clarity, and asking if he is having any other problems (behavior included) in school. It would be completely out of character for him...he has always been very well behaved, one of those model students that teachers really like. But, we've had some stuff going on at home lately, and maybe the stress of that is catching up with him??

Worried sick over this!

 

[Jennasis]

Well, it's a he said-she said. No way would a kid own up to admitting to cheating. So I would take his version with a grain of salt. And of course, the teacher has to go by what she sees. I would ask the teacher about extra credit assignements to bring the grade up and chalk this up to a lesson learned for your son. I bet that A) if he was cheating, he may be remiss to try it again and B) if he wasn't cheating he will remember in the future to ask the teacher for clarification and not his neighbors.

 

[punkin]

I'm sorry, OP. I would probably not make too much of a fuss about the 0. I would let the teacher know the explanation, but wouldn't make too much noise about the actual grade. Just make sure the teacher knows your son was not actually cheating.

 

[happygirl]

First of all, I have to start by saying that this has been a crappy week as far as school goes for both of my boys.

My youngest (6th grade) brought home his IPR (mid-quarter grades) yesterday. He has a C- in reading. He is an A/B student, so of course, I was concerned. The rest of his grades were pretty good...B- in math...eh. Could be better.

So, I went on to our Parent Portal system, to try to get a better idea of why he's doing do poorly in reading. He got a 10% on one assignment, but he couldn't tell me why! At that point, I decided I was going to email the teacher.

I scrolled down to check the rest of the grades, and I noticed that his math grade dropped to a C-. In one week! One of the homework assignments showed as a 0. I asked my DS if he did his homework. He said yes. Then, he started to cry. Seems that he did his homework, but he didn't understand a couple of the problems so he left them blank. They were going over the problems in class, and he leaned to his neighbor to ask him for help...as in, explain this to me. Teacher looked up from her desk, said "Absolutely not", took DS's paper, and gave him a 0. DS didn't defend himself, he just took the 0.

While I understand that he should have asked his teacher for help, and not his neighbor, I'm really wrestling with the fact that she treated this as cheating and gave him a 0. He does not have a history of cheating. He wasn't copying off his neighbors paper (or so he says...). He was just asking for help.

I'm not really sure what to do. I sent an email asking for more clarity, and asking if he is having any other problems (behavior included) in school. It would be completely out of character for him...he has always been very well behaved, one of those model students that teachers really like. But, we've had some stuff going on at home lately, and maybe the stress of that is catching up with him??

Worried sick over this!

I wouldn't worry about it to much he still has lots of time to make up this grade, encourage him to ask for help from his teacher. I wouldn't have emailed the teacher. JMO

 

[golfgal]

Yes, it is cheating. He was copying from another student. It seems like he was intending to write in the answers as they went over them in class. Sounds like he learned a good lesson. Next time, ask the teacher for help, BEFORE class.

 

[momof5boys]

Marcy, just trying to get to the end of the school year here too! I think you took the right step in emailing the teacher. I have found that just listening to my son's side of the story definately does not give me the whole picture!
That being said I should have known something was up when my son started saying how easy and stupid computer class was(guess which class he failed?!) I would wait until you have the teacher's side and then talk to your son again. I would also call his guidance counselor and let her know what is going on, with school and home. It will take time to get to the bottom of it all. In the meantime make sure to ask his teacher if there is any extra credit he could do to bring up his grade. Good luck.

 

[Rora]

Well, it's a he said-she said. No way would a kid own up to admitting to cheating. So I would take his version with a grain of salt. And of course, the teacher has to go by what she sees. I would ask the teacher about extra credit assignements to bring the grade up and chalk this up to a lesson learned for your son. I bet that A) if he was cheating, he may be remiss to try it again and B) if he wasn't cheating he will remember in the future to ask the teacher for clarification and not his neighbors.

I agree with this.

I'd contact the teacher and see what she has to say. And like Jennasis said, I doubt your son will do this again, whether or not he was cheating.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

First of all, I have to start by saying that this has been a crappy week as far as school goes for both of my boys.

My youngest (6th grade) brought home his IPR (mid-quarter grades) yesterday. He has a C- in reading. He is an A/B student, so of course, I was concerned. The rest of his grades were pretty good...B- in math...eh. Could be better.

So, I went on to our Parent Portal system, to try to get a better idea of why he's doing do poorly in reading. He got a 10% on one assignment, but he couldn't tell me why! At that point, I decided I was going to email the teacher.

I scrolled down to check the rest of the grades, and I noticed that his math grade dropped to a C-. In one week! One of the homework assignments showed as a 0. I asked my DS if he did his homework. He said yes. Then, he started to cry. Seems that he did his homework, but he didn't understand a couple of the problems so he left them blank. They were going over the problems in class, and he leaned to his neighbor to ask him for help...as in, explain this to me. Teacher looked up from her desk, said "Absolutely not", took DS's paper, and gave him a 0. DS didn't defend himself, he just took the 0.

While I understand that he should have asked his teacher for help, and not his neighbor, I'm really wrestling with the fact that she treated this as cheating and gave him a 0. He does not have a history of cheating. He wasn't copying off his neighbors paper (or so he says...). He was just asking for help.

I'm not really sure what to do. I sent an email asking for more clarity, and asking if he is having any other problems (behavior included) in school. It would be completely out of character for him...he has always been very well behaved, one of those model students that teachers really like. But, we've had some stuff going on at home lately, and maybe the stress of that is catching up with him??

Worried sick over this!

First off calm down. I have been through this plenty with my dd and my dd is the "model student of the century" and an A student.

Lying about what is going on is very common when kids are dealing with stuff. Just take that in first. It does not mean it is malicious or deceitful it may mean that your ds is very overwhelmed at the moment and cannot handle stuff & is not thinking clearly and making mistakes to "make up" for his issues. (ETA...To address the cheating part of your question, your DS KNOWS the rules of the class and went against them.)

My suggestion to you is to email EVERY teacher, check his grades daily, help your ds through this jag. DO NOT let your DS say "everything is fine mom". Do not "trust him" at the moment, help him instead even if he does not want you to.

I have done this many times and the sooner you deal with the problem the better, trust me.

My dd has been out with the flu this week, it is the end of the quarter she missed. Now she is pretty good at this point with getting her stuff in however it can get a bit daunting, so I will check up on her to make sure she is "on track".

You know there is an issue, now go and be proactive. It will be OK.

 

[mhsjax]

When I went to school, we frequently did this for homework, that was what homework was for. To learn. It wasn't a test. Math is one of those things that sometimes you just have a problem with certain questions.

My math teachers went over homework everyday and would ask if anyone needed her to do a problem that they didn't understand.

Now all of this is assuming that is what really happened. And I bet if your son usually has good grades, this is the case. If this is the case, I think I would e-mail the teacher and ask her what the policy is.

Could be that you just got stuck with a nasty old worn out teacher.

 

[mhsjax]

Yes, it is cheating. He was copying from another student. It seems like he was intending to write in the answers as they went over them in class. Sounds like he learned a good lesson. Next time, ask the teacher for help, BEFORE class.

If every kid lined up to ask the teacher a question about a certain problem that they had an issue with, the teacher wouldn't be able to teach.

 

[msmayor]

In our district that really wouldn't be considered cheating...but it would indeed be grounds for a zero on the assignment.

Our schools follow a practice whereby homework is graded as either complete or incomplete. Leaving a problem "blank" is just like not doing your homework at all...students are supposed to at least show an attempt at doing the homework, even if it is a poor attempt or one that is completely wrong. For the most part its all or nothing...leave anything blank and the homework is considered incomplete.

 

[mhsjax]

In our district that really wouldn't be considered cheating...but it would indeed be grounds for a zero on the assignment.

Our schools follow a practice whereby homework is graded as either complete or incomplete. Leaving a problem "blank" is just like not doing your homework at all...students are supposed to at least show an attempt at doing the homework, even if it is a poor attempt or one that is completely wrong. For the most part its all or nothing...leave anything blank and the homework is considered incomplete.

So, if you have 30 homework problems and you leave on blank because you just don't get it, it is a zero. Hello. that is crazy. At my youngest sons school, if you didn't understand something, she didn't care, she offered no help and you had to sit alone and try and figure it out during lunch. Last I heard she was on her last leg of employment. Between that and her lousy test grades on FCATS I hope she is long gone before too long. BTW this was 3rd grade.

OUrs still give actual grades for homework in MS. If my DS has a question in his Algebra Honors class , the teacher will help them with it during class and they can write in the answer. She actually teaches, what a concept.

If leaving a couple of problems bank because you don't understand them equals a zero, I would be ticked. This is why some kids get discouraged. There has to be a middle ground. That middle ground thing is so underused these days on everything.

 

[shortbun]

I think the teacher over reacted. This was homework, not a quiz. Kids can help each other on homework easily outside the classroom and should go to each other first. My son was taught that asking another student for help should come prior to asking the teacher-except during tests. Your son could have been saying, 'what did she say?' or "what did she say the value for X was?" I wouldn't rock the boat too much but I would explain to my son how to keep this from happening again. I might also email the teacher as ask her for help for my son, mentioning the incident where he was asking for help-not cheating. It's a math class. Not cheating!!!

 

[msmayor]

So, if you have 30 homework problems and you leave on blank because you just don't get it, it is a zero. Hello. that is crazy. At my youngest sons school, if you didn't understand something, she didn't care, she offered no help and you had to sit alone and try and figure it out during lunch. Last I heard she was on her last leg of employment. Between that and her lousy test grades on FCATS I hope she is long gone before too long. BTW this was 3rd grade.

OUrs still give actual grades for homework in MS. If my DS has a question in his Algebra Honors class , the teacher will help them with it during class and they can write in the answer. She actually teaches, what a concept.

If leaving a couple of problems bank because you don't understand them equals a zero, I would be ticked. This is why some kids get discouraged. There has to be a middle ground.

Discouraged? Maybe. But in the long run I think it actually ENCOURAGES them to just try instead of giving up. Its easy to just say "Meh...I don't understand it so I'm going to skip it." I think its a better life lesson to make them TRY, even though its hard. There is no harm in trying and failing to complete the problem, and that is the lesson. You get credit for trying, no credit for giving up.

 

[mhsjax]

Discouraged? Maybe. But in the long run I think it actually ENCOURAGES them to just try instead of giving up. Its easy to just say "Meh...I don't understand it so I'm going to skip it." I think its a better life lesson to make them TRY, even though its hard. There is no harm in trying and failing to complete the problem, and that is the lesson. You get credit for trying, no credit for giving up.

I agree, that is why I said middle ground. Sometimes there are problems that really you just don't know where to begin. I guess I am also basing what I said on my kid who would kill himself trying to figure it out, he is a perfectionist. Luckily, his math teacher, she is fantastic, asks if anyone had a problem and she will go over it for them and not hold it against them. She is also there in the am the day before the test for extra help. I have said it and I will say it again. I love my school system, most of the teachers, except the one I mentioned, have a brain and actually use it and they did see a middle ground.

 

[FireDancer]

Every time I looked at another kid's sheet for an answer or let a friend look at mine we were "just asking for help" too. It is a good lesson in why you "share" homework answers at home, not in the middle of class.

 

[marmalade]

In our district that really wouldn't be considered cheating...but it would indeed be grounds for a zero on the assignment.

Our schools follow a practice whereby homework is graded as either complete or incomplete. Leaving a problem "blank" is just like not doing your homework at all...students are supposed to at least show an attempt at doing the homework, even if it is a poor attempt or one that is completely wrong. For the most part its all or nothing...leave anything blank and the homework is considered incomplete.

mhsjax I think you missed the point of the bolded part. They student needs to at least make an attempt.

To the OP: I probably would not email the teacher unless it happened again. If you son was trying to get the answer from a friend hopefully this was enough to make him not do it again. However if the teacher gives him another 0 I would want to get to the bottom of what was going on.

 

[mhsjax]

Every time I looked at another kid's sheet for an answer or let a friend look at mine we were "just asking for help" too. It is a good lesson in why you "share" homework answers at home, not in the middle of class.

And there you have the voice of reason. lol Just do your perceived cheating at home. lol

BTW, I think it would be very evident when the testing is done, if the child was really cheating. If he consistently fails but the homework is done, yep cheating. If he passes and yet asks for help on homework, Nope not cheating.

 

[msmayor]

I agree, that is why I said middle ground. Sometimes there are problems that really you just don't know where to begin. I guess I am also basing what I said on my kid who would kill himself trying to figure it out, he is a perfectionist. Luckily, his math teacher, she is fantastic, asks if anyone had a problem and she will go over it for them and not hold it against them. She is also there in the am the day before the test for extra help. I have said it and I will say it again. I love my school system, most of the teachers, except the one I mentioned, have a brain and actually use it and they did see a middle ground.

I agree...but the point I was trying to make was that leaving the problem completely blank doesn't demonstrate that you made any attempt at all to solve it. Working even a small part of the problem, or pulling specific facts out and writing them down at least shows the teacher that you made some effort. Even writing down a few statements like "I read the problem but don't understand how to get started on the solution - I could use some extra help" is enough to demonstrate to the teacher that a student tried.

Its leaving a problem totally blank that is the reason a student gets a zero. A student must demonstrate that they did something - anything - in an effort to solve the problem or answer the question.

That's the middle ground. Its teaching the student that its OK if they don't understand the question, but they have to give a written indication that an effort to do the work was made, not that they just skipped over it and left it blank.

 

[mhsjax]

mhsjax I think you missed the point of the bolded part. They student needs to at least make an attempt.

To the OP: I probably would not email the teacher unless it happened again. If you son was trying to get the answer from a friend hopefully this was enough to make him not do it again. However if the teacher gives him another 0 I would want to get to the bottom of what was going on.

NO I did see that. I really did. But sometimes, they just don't get it enough to make an attempt. With my kids they may have 4 different types of problems and on most they will get it, but maybe on the one or two questions they don't know enough to even start to get it. Sometimes a kid can explain it better than a teacher. I am just saying that a kid who normally has decent grades, shouldn't be getting a zero because he asked to see the homework paper of a friend. I did this frequently for one of my friends until it clicked with her.