Worrying about Flying with a "lap child"

[scrapquitler]

You can bring the carseat with you, and if you are lucky enough to have an empty seat on the plane, you can put the baby in the carseat. If there is no empty seat, they will gatecheck the carseat (they take it at the door of the aircraft, and you get it back at the doorwhen when you get off).

Note that if you buy one of those harness things, they are usually NOT allowed for use during takeoff/landing.

I always figured that the baby is best in the carseat...they are used to being in the carseat for carrides, so they will probably not complain about it if they dont' complain about it in the car.

Personally, I would NOT have my baby on my lap in the plane. We have always purchased a ticket for him when flying.

 

[NotUrsula]

So, I put him in the vest once we got settled in our seat and planned on hooking him to my belt after take off. Well, none of the FA's batted an eye at him having it on so I hooked him to my seatbelt for take off. (Please no FLAMES) I also did it for landing and had the same experience on our flight home.

I'm not flaming you, but the odds on other FA's caring that little about their jobs are pretty slim, so counting on being able to do this isn't a good idea. If an FAA representative had seen and caught that, the airline would have been fined thousands of dollars for it.

 

[MoeFam]

We have flown with both of our kids on our laps- and never had any problems. We tried to time the flights for when we knew they would be tired-that always seems to help!

One thing I did was take my Maya wrap sling and use that on DD while we took off and landed. It added just a little extra security by keeping her close to me, and she was comforted by it too. At that point she was about 21 months. I was not approached by any FA's - so I am assuming it was OK???

 

[firsttimermd]

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=199728 suggests that both the Marathon and the Boulevard should fit.

Good to know they will fit, but I just wanted to mention that on some airlines, specifically Southwest, they have a policy that if the arm rests both can't go down, then you have to buy two seats. This policy specifically relates to the "customer of size", but I'd just be aware that they have that policy along an open seating policy and even if you say, "But I'm travelling with my little one and I'll be right next to him" they may, according to their policy, still charge because the person's space is infringed on and because of "safety and comfort" reasons. And you are not guaranteed to be seated with the child. I think it is absurd to think an airline would split up a young child and their parent, but apparently they have that "right"--my guess is they say that just so they can toss out their policy and charge for 2 seats. I read a story on disboards about a gal who got to the check in counter and the ticketing agent said, "As a customer of size, you need to purchase 2 tickets, but if the plane isn't sold out, you get your money back." From what I understand, it is up to the discretion of the ticketing agent since obviously people can vary wildly in their shapes and sizes.

I'd be shocked if they enforced it, but can you imagine how irritating that would be to be checking in and getting hit with that based on the width of the carseat!

Just FYI.

 

[firsttimermd]

Here is what I found on AirTran's security page regarding liquids:

Security Advisory
Security rules for liquids, aerosols and gels in aircraft cabin.


The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has instituted the following rules for bringing liquids, gels and aerosols onboard an aircraft.


Travelers may carry through security checkpoints travel-size toiletries (3 ounces or less) that fit comfortably in ONE, QUART-SIZE, clear plastic, zip-top bag.
At the checkpoint travelers will be asked to remove the zip-top bag of liquids and place it in a bin or on the conveyor belt. X-raying separately will allow TSA security officers to more easily examine the declared items.
You must declare the following items at the screening checkpoint if they are more than 3 oz not contained in a zip-top plastic bag.

Baby formula/milk (to include breast milk) and baby food in containers if a baby or small child is traveling
Medications (liquid, gels, and/or aerosol)
Liquids (to include juice) or gels for diabetic or other medical needs
After clearing security, travelers can bring beverages and other items purchased in the secure boarding area on-board aircraft.

The security rules ban carry-on of toiletry items toiletry items over 3 oz. Such items may be transported in checked baggage.

Passengers may carry the following items on the aircraft:


Beverages and other items purchased in the secure boarding area on-board aircraft.
Essential other non-prescription medicines not to exceed 4 oz. (120ml) per container, to include saline solution and eye care products such as eye drops and contact lens solution
Solid cosmetics and personal hygiene items such as lipstick in a tube, solid deodorant, lip balm, and similar solids
Laptops and portable electronics are allowed onboard as part of a passenger's carry-on baggage allowance.

I noticed it said nothing about the milk or formula having to be in a bottle vs. sippy cup vs. ziplock container. I had heard it had to be a bottle, but my girl is off the bottle and onto sippy cups. Hope it will be okay!

 

[NemoMOm]

You may want to print that and take it with you. We just flew and there were 3 people that had bought Starbucks at the gate and they were taken away on the flight. I was soo glad that I did not buy one. They were full too. Bye bye 5 bucks!

 

[thepeach80]

Although now I wonder if the car seat will only cause more issues (kicking). I have a Britax Boulevard and its HUGE- perhaps (if we were to get an open seat) the car seat would only cause issues with her "kicking" the back of the seat in front of her, maybe I should just see if I can put in the seat without the carseat. She is about 19lbs and not 30" yet (thats small for a baby her age) so her little legs aren't very long, but who knows.

At that size, she needs to be rfing on the plane just like she should be in the car. I plan on having my 32 mos old rfing for the sheer fact that he won't be kicking anyone then.

I find it odd that some people seem to put more stock in people's experiences on this board than people's experiences elsewhere. It's a known fact that children have gotten seriously hurt in emergency landings and turbulance, but b/c someone here says there child has been fine so far that fact is written off.

 

[jodifla]

At that size, she needs to be rfing on the plane just like she should be in the car. I plan on having my 32 mos old rfing for the sheer fact that he won't be kicking anyone then.

I find it odd that some people seem to put more stock in people's experiences on this board than people's experiences elsewhere. It's a known fact that children have gotten seriously hurt in emergency landings and turbulance, but b/c someone here says there child has been fine so far that fact is written off.

No, it's not a known fact. Three children have died IN CRASHES who were unrestrained in the last 20 years.

See story:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-08-03-childseat-usat_x.htm

 

[firsttimermd]

At that size, she needs to be rfing on the plane just like she should be in the car. I plan on having my 32 mos old rfing for the sheer fact that he won't be kicking anyone then.

I find it odd that some people seem to put more stock in people's experiences on this board than people's experiences elsewhere. It's a known fact that children have gotten seriously hurt in emergency landings and turbulance, but b/c someone here says there child has been fine so far that fact is written off.

It is a also known fact that children have gotten seriously hurt or killed on amusement rides. According to the consumer product safety commision, in 1999 alone 7,260 people were injured on amusement rides vs. 769 people (not all lap held children mind you) during the entire 16 years from 1981-1999 Looks like folks better cancel that Disney trip--quick! I find it odd that some people seem to feel that just because you buy your child a seat and place them in a car seat that it precludes that child from ever needing to be out of the seat. One big argument against lap flying is that turbulence can occur anytime without warning. If that is the case, then are those of you so staunchly against lap flying going to leave your child in the carseat the ENTIRE flight, regardless of issues that might require their getting out such illness or necessary things such as diaper changes? If I buy a seat, do I get some guarantee that turbulence will only occur when my child is safely buckled in? Of course not, so I truly feel that even if you buy a seat, you really are no safer than a lap infant if you have to take your child out of that seat at any time during the flight whatsoever. In this continuing debate, I feel as if folks who oppose lap flying completely refuse to acknowledge the real odds of injury (very, very, very slim), as well as refusing to acknowledge the fact that so many other things are so much more dangerous statistically. I'm going to forego any further debate on the matter because parenting is hard enough--I don't need to be made to feel guilty for the method with which I get my child to Disney World.

Regardless which side you take in this conversation, I do sincerely hope everyone has a safe trip.

 

[NotUrsula]

Good to know they will fit, but I just wanted to mention that on some airlines, specifically Southwest, they have a policy that if the arm rests both can't go down, then you have to buy two seats. This policy specifically relates to the "customer of size", but I'd just be aware that they have that policy along an open seating policy and even if you say, "But I'm travelling with my little one and I'll be right next to him" they may, according to their policy, still charge because the person's space is infringed on and because of "safety and comfort" reasons. And you are not guaranteed to be seated with the child. I think it is absurd to think an airline would split up a young child and their parent, but apparently they have that "right"--my guess is they say that just so they can toss out their policy and charge for 2 seats.

This is completely incorrect where carseats are concerned. Federal law requires that a child who is strapped into a carseat on a commercial aircraft MUST be seated next to someone in the same party who is at least 14 yo and responsible for freeing the child from the seat in the event of an emergency evacuation. (The only exception is that one adult may be responsible for two children in carseats, in which case they are placed [window]CS-CS-Adult). SWA does NOT ever require the purchase of two seats to accomodate a carseat, even if the armrests cannot go down.

FYI, in practice, for safety reasons no FA will allow a child who is 4 years old or younger to be seated away from *one* supervising responsible adult. A healthy child who is school-aged (at least 5) is considered by the FAA to be capable of behaving and following the FA's instructions when seated apart from a parent, so contiguous seating for those children is not required. (BTW, kids this age have been tested in evacuation drills and did just fine. Their parents, however, invariably panicked and disrupted the evacuation process to go and look for the kids -- who had already left the plane b/c they followed instructions.)

 

[firsttimermd]

This is completely incorrect where carseats are concerned. Federal law requires that a child who is strapped into a carseat on a commercial aircraft MUST be seated next to someone in the same party who is at least 14 yo and responsible for freeing the child from the seat in the event of an emergency evacuation. (The only exception is that one adult may be responsible for two children in carseats, in which case they are placed [window]CS-CS-Adult). SWA does NOT ever require the purchase of two seats to accomodate a carseat, even if the armrests cannot go down.

FYI, in practice, for safety reasons no FA will allow a child who is 4 years old or younger to be seated away from *one* supervising responsible adult. A healthy child who is school-aged (at least 5) is considered by the FAA to be capable of behaving and following the FA's instructions when seated apart from a parent, so contiguous seating for those children is not required. (BTW, kids this age have been tested in evacuation drills and did just fine. Their parents, however, invariably panicked and disrupted the evacuation process to go and look for the kids -- who had already left the plane b/c they followed instructions.)

I'm really glad to know they won't apply it to a carseat because that sounded simply absurd to me. And as I recall, the gal I read about had a young child, but perhaps he was 5 or over, thus the reason she was told she had no guarantee to be seated next to her because of their open seating policy. It is still a little spooky to think you might be seated separated from your kids on a flight, but knowing the rules ahead of time allows people to decide which airline they are willing to go with.

And I TOTALLY believe your line about the kids doing great in evacuations while the parents sat around and freaked. One time my daughter fell and cut her lip and you'd have thought I cut off my own foot the way I freaked out. She calmly said, "Mommy, could I have a tissue?" I felt like a total fool and have since learned to stay very calm in emergency situations--so far!!


Thanks for the clarification.

 

[NotUrsula]

I noticed it said nothing about the milk or formula having to be in a bottle vs. sippy cup vs. ziplock container. I had heard it had to be a bottle, but my girl is off the bottle and onto sippy cups. Hope it will be okay!

FYI: What the airlines publish on the topic is irrelevant, the only source for the correct info in the US is TSA. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/children/index.shtm

Note that page is current as of August 14th, 2007. Before that, juice was not included in the permitted list, and you should note that cow's milk still isn't on the permitted list.

Frequent travelers here advised using a baby bottle as opposed to a sippy cup based on observation: because TSO's were never allowed to require a taste test to differentiate human milk or formula from cow's milk, they could not refuse to take the passenger's word for the white contents of a bottle being human milk or formula, so they always let it through. It seemed to be an assumption in their training that a child old enough to be using a sippy would not still be drinking human milk or formula, so more often than not, they interpreted the use of a sippy as evidence that the content probably was NOT human milk or formula, and so they almost always refused to let the content through the checkpoint. Simplistic and illogical, yes, but that seemed to be their rule of thumb.

Training post-August 1, 2007 *should* eliminate the "sippy-cup standard" as a test, but I personally wouldn't bet on it, at leat not for a while. Putting your supply of cow's milk (or soy, or rice milk) in baby bottles is the most expedient thing to do if you MUST bring it from home for some reason.

 

[rrobin3051]

LIke I said in another post the one time I flew I used a bottle but brought a sippy cup. The lady told me sippys were ok too, but that just might be my airport(cleveland). I just recommend buying a cheap bottle or two and filling them and toting along the sippy. You can either throw away the bottle after pouring it in the sippy or rinse it and keep it for the return trip home. I just bought a cheap $1 bottle for this purpose. I did it so there would be no questions.

 

[firsttimermd]

FYI: What the airlines publish on the topic is irrelevant, the only source for the correct info in the US is TSA. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/children/index.shtm

Note that page is current as of August 14th, 2007. Before that, juice was not included in the permitted list, and you should note that cow's milk still isn't on the permitted list.

Frequent travelers here advised using a baby bottle as opposed to a sippy cup based on observation: because TSO's were never allowed to require a taste test to differentiate human milk or formula from cow's milk, they could not refuse to take the passenger's word for the white contents of a bottle being human milk or formula, so they always let it through. It seemed to be an assumption in their training that a child old enough to be using a sippy would not still be drinking human milk or formula, so more often than not, they interpreted the use of a sippy as evidence that the content probably was NOT human milk or formula, and so they almost always refused to let the content through the checkpoint. Simplistic and illogical, yes, but that seemed to be their rule of thumb.

Training post-August 1, 2007 *should* eliminate the "sippy-cup standard" as a test, but I personally wouldn't bet on it, at leat not for a while. Putting your supply of cow's milk (or soy, or rice milk) in baby bottles is the most expedient thing to do if you MUST bring it from home for some reason.

Okay, where were you before!! You certainly are a wealth of information! I'll review the link you provided, but I'll probably just bring my empty sippy and grab something past security for her to sip on during takeoff and landing--seems to be the path of least resistance. My mom flew yesterday and the dear naive thing that she is said, "I'll just hand them my diet coke and have them pass it around to me once I'm through." I told her times have certainly changes since the last time she flew!!

Thanks again!

 

[katerkat]

FYI, in practice, for safety reasons no FA will allow a child who is 4 years old or younger to be seated away from *one* supervising responsible adult.

Hee, I had one checking-in lady tell me my seats had been re-assigned and Russ was now sitting four rows behind me. (He was sitting in his stroller right next to me at the time and I know at least on MY reservation paper, it said I was flying with a child under 2.) I asked if I could be upgraded to first class, seeing as I didn't need to sit by my toddler anymore. (She did fix it, after first not being able to "find" any seats together.)

In my experience, juice/milk in sippies has totally depended on the whims of the people working that day. First time I was in Newark, the TSA guy told me I shouldn't have dumped Russ's sippy. So next time, I didn't. And got in trouble and had to dump it. I've never had anyone make an actual issue of dumping it, though, so I bring it and dump it if the agent asks me to.

Since technically, diaper rash creme is on the banned list, I got his doctor to write a prescription for A&D, and the pharmacy wrapped the prescription label on the box and on the tube (and yes, I paid full price for the tube.) This way I can carry it on as a prescription. Russ always gets a diaper rash from plane travel so we slather his butt up.

 

[talulabelle]

Wow, 9 pages on a simple ? like buying a seat for a baby. Whodathunk it?

I have not read all the responses (I may have insomnia, but not that bad)

But without knowing if this has been said (which after 9 pages, I'm sure it has) I thought I would stick in my 2 cents.

I never bought a seat for kids under 2. I have always flown SW, so this is my only experience, but with a kid under 2, you are preboarding, odds are, there is at least one empty seat on the plane, so I always figure, that empty seat might as well be next to me, so I would preboard, and plunk my baby on the seat next to me. Noone boarding the plane stops to ask you to move your baby or asks if you bought them a seat. (nor do they want to sit next to your baby) If a someone did ask, I would of course say, "oh, no , this seat is open, " and move my kid for them, but it never happened. The plane always loaded, and everyone found a seat, and no one ever asked me to move the baby. Even if you do end up with the baby on your lap the whole time, between 3 people, I think you will be fine, as long as you are sitting together. I'm with your dh on this, why waste hundreds of $$ if you don't have to?

As far as a safety concern, well, I just really never saw a report of "baby survives crash soley because of carseat" has anyone? I mean if a plane endures an incident large enough to rip them from your arms, I'm thinking the kid isn't going to fair much better in a carseat. If I didn't have a seat for my baby, I am small enough that I could have put the baby on my side and belted us both in anyway. What are the statistics of injuries on planes versus cars? I don't have them ,but I know they are so ridiculously unbalanced that it doesn't make sense to buy a seat for a baby, and is also the reason airlines allow you to do it in the first place. Has there ever been a lawsuit against an airline because a lap baby was injured, and if the airline had required carseats, it wouldn't have been injured?

One word of advice, MAKE SURE YOU TAKE YOU CHILDS BIRTH CERTIFICATE or other proof of age. I know for a fact that SW will not let a lap baby on without it.

 

[tjmw2727]

snip -
I never bought a seat for kids under 2. I have always flown SW, so this is my only experience, but with a kid under 2, you are preboarding, odds are, there is at least one empty seat on the plane, so I always figure, that empty seat might as well be next to me, so I would preboard, and plunk my baby on the seat next to me. Noone boarding the plane stops to ask you to move your baby or asks if you bought them a seat. (nor do they want to sit next to your baby) If a someone did ask, I would of course say, "oh, no , this seat is open, " and move my kid for them, but it never happened. The plane always loaded, and everyone found a seat, and no one ever asked me to move the baby.
snip
.

I respectfully ask that folks refrain from this on SWA - here is why. Putting your child in a seat you have not paid for in hopes that it will remain free makes it more difficult for those who have paid for seats to find them together. My last flight solo on SWA parents with lap babies did just as the pp described and this left two sets of kids without seats near a parent. They were over 4 so not able to preboard and in the C group. The FA's announced that there wre 4 lap children and all 4 should immediately be moved back into a parents lap. This freed up the 4 seats needed but then began the juggling to get the kids near a parent.

Also - In my experience unless there are enough empty seats to accomodate all lap babies the FA won't allow you to use an empty seat even for a lap child.

TJ

 

[Nanu57v]

Is the OP still around? I noticed that she asked about lower rates for children. The baby isn't considered a "child," but and "infant." Every flight I've flown on has infant fares, they may not be cheaper than the sale fares, but they exist. Once on US Air I got the infant fare at 50% the adult SALE fare...that was awesome! It was $47 for DD to have a seat. But its an infant fare, not a child's fare.

 

[NotUrsula]

Just FYI: Within the last year or so, nearly every US legacy carrier has done away with the reduced-price "Infant" fare for separate seats on domestic flights. (They do still have the "Infant" fare class for int'l flights, but that one doesn't get baby a seat; it is a charge for putting a lap baby on the flight manifest and paying the immigration fees.)

 

[thepeach80]

Midwest Airlines offers 50%, I thought Southwest did up to 75%, and Delta supposedly does sometimes, but not for us this time.