Winter Heating Bills-Can it be declared as a natural disaster?

[ducklite]

I just wanted to clarify that generators WERE NOT included in the tax free items.


As some others have so elequently stated on other threads today:
1) if you can't afford the household costs of your home, then may be you can't afford your home.
2) If you know winter is coming and there could be some problems, you better prepare yourself and not expect the government to bail you out. You have had fair warning.


Really I feel for those who are going to have to deal with these heating costs this year.

I'm the one who stated that if you can't afford the cost of maintaining your home, then you can't afford to live there. I feel the same principal applies here. If you are a homeowner, you've got assets to draw on to heat your home, even if it means borrowing against your home's value as a last resort. We are not talking about people living in poverty. People knew this was coming, and had ample time to lock in a rate with an oil company or get on a budget plan with the gas company. And what about that rainy day savings account? Or your vacation fund? Or your Friday night babysitter and date night money?

I just have a hard time believing that the majority of people will find themselves getting their heat turned off with no other options. Yes, people will have to make sacrifices, but life isn't always what we wish it could be.

In some cases, people have been struggling along in homes they can't afford to be in to begin with, and probably should have sold and moved on long ago. Yes, winter heating costs might be the straw the breaks the camels back, but if it wasn't that it would eventually be something else, so what's the difference?

And NO WAY the government should be bailing out all but the most severe cases.

Anne

 

[chasbos]

We are in a little different situation as we run a business and our heating costs are HUGE! We spent $37,000 on propane last year and if that goes up 50% - that is a huge deal. We do not get paid anymore for our product so where is the extra money going to come from?

We are as energy efficient as possible but something is going to have to change soon with these fuel prices or the economy is going togo to the pots.

Another big joke here in Canada is that they do give a heating rebate to low income families, but the majority of them live in rented dwellings where the utilities are included! So they are getting a rebate for something they are not even forking the money out for!

I am just hoping for a mild winter and that the prices forecasted are way out of whack.

 

[C.Ann]

With the electric and gas company here they can "adjust" your budget plan up to 4 times a year..

I'm hoping I didn't shoot myself in the foot by signing up for the budget plan here at the lake this past June.. I knew the a/c charges would be high - and the heat (electric) for the fall would be high - so it seemed liked the logical thing to do at the time.. Because I'm not here year-round it worked out to $41 a month.. When I leave for the season tomorrow, I'll throw the main breaker and then until I return next spring the "actual" monthly charge should only be $15 - because there will be NO electricity used - it's just their basic charge for it to remain connected..

But now I'm wondering.. Are they going to "anticipate" or "assume" that I'm going to be here for the next 5 and a half months and increase the budget amount that I'm currently paying? If so, I suppose I'll have to fight them tooth and nail to make them understand that no one is here....

As for preparing and budgeting for the higher heat bills, I don't think anyone could have predicted what may work out to a three-fold increase over last years heating bills.. I don't see that as being unprepared or not being able to afford the home you're living in.. I see that as being blindsided.. Even being on a budget plan may be more than some people can afford once the "adjustments" kick in..

 

[chrissyk]

Is there anyway to figure out what your bill will be BEFORE you get it? This is our first year in our first single family home. The nice lady at the gas company told me when I set up my service what the highest bill for winter was ($200) and what the 12 month average was ($110 or something). But I have no idea what the previous owners had their thermostat set at. For all I know they had it set at 75 degrees 24/7 or 65 degrees for only a few hours a day, then droped it to 60 the rest of the time. Or it could be they set it for about what we have it at. My last gas bill was $36 for the month of September, so I have a feeling I'm using my heat less, but September was a warm month this year and we didn't have the heat turned on yet. I won't get my October bill for another 3 weeks and even then we hardly used our furnace. That means I won't ge my first real "winter' bill until December, just in time for Christmas shopping. I hope it's not too shocking!

In this case, I really don't think that there is a way to figure out what your average gas bill will be this year. It's not so much that you couldn't find out how many therms were used by the previous homeowners in any given period...it's more that you don't know just how high the price per therm will go this winter. I hope that that makes sense.

 

[we3disneygo]

I live in a small ranch style home and my level pay is already 148.00 per month, I too don't know what we'll do if it's double.....we do put plastic over all the windows, don't heat the basement. I kinda see the point of the OP .....no ones gonna help us.....

 

[jonestavern]

I'm the one who stated that if you can't afford the cost of maintaining your home, then you can't afford to live there. I feel the same principal applies here. If you are a homeowner, you've got assets to draw on to heat your home, even if it means borrowing against your home's value as a last resort. We are not talking about people living in poverty. People knew this was coming, and had ample time to lock in a rate with an oil company or get on a budget plan with the gas company. And what about that rainy day savings account? Or your vacation fund? Or your Friday night babysitter and date night money?
I just have a hard time believing that the majority of people will find themselves getting their heat turned off with no other options. Yes, people will have to make sacrifices, but life isn't always what we wish it could be.
In some cases, people have been struggling along in homes they can't afford to be in to begin with, and probably should have sold and moved on long ago. Yes, winter heating costs might be the straw the breaks the camels back, but if it wasn't that it would eventually be something else, so what's the difference?
And NO WAY the government should be bailing out all but the most severe cases.
Anne

personally, I have in mind as a winter disaster a phenomonally bad ice storm or drastically much lower temps than usually experienced. does anyone remember the winter of '78 & the ice storm that preceeded it? Like flooding, where previously unexperienced, it happens.
I don't think anyone--well, most anyone!--expects, or wants a handout, maybe a hand up regarding rebates for energy saving. You're spot on about budgeting for emergencies & unpredicatable weather!
At least here abouts, there is no mass turning off of utilities. In some states there are laws preventing utility companies from shutting off heat in the depth of winter.
Some deaths always occur in cold country from folks, usually elderly, not turning up the thermostat for fear of running up their bills. I'm sure we've all heard of people in similiar circumstances perishing in the heat.
Usually, we can prepay into a heating plan. This involves estimating your usage & money paid up front. A lot of people just don't have the $2,100 (what we paid this June). we always add some padding in our estimate.
there have been rumblings here of some of the oil companies welching on the pre-pays due to the exhorbitant rise in prices they must pay. I haven't heard any more about it, so am keeping my fingers crossed for all of us.
Yes, some companies do let you budget, but you pay more per gallon for the priviledge. Also, if you've moved to a place your previously paid oil company doesn't serve, you are way out of luck! It happened to us! We got our upfront money cheerfully refunded but had to pay the going rate!
Even brand new furnaces malfunction, & if you're lucky you can opt into a service contract--these aren't always available & restricted to the newer furnaces. there are also things they simply don't cover.
We heat with oil, have kerosene portable heaters, & have fireplaces.
the thermostat is at 56 daytime, 50 at night. The top floors are shut off & the 3 of us live in 'cozy' conditions on the 1st floor. Our pipes are wrapped, windows sealed(& that's not real healthy!) we've put in insulation etc. Down comforters, lots of sweaters & wool sox.
Yes, winter should come as no surprise! We most definitely have to realize it's not shorts weather inside the house. for those who are struggling I wish you well & I will be donating, again this year, to a local money for heating fund-

Jean

 

[marlasmom]

Projected bills of $600 a month seem ridiculous to me. Although it has been 3 years since we lived in NH, our house was quite large and very old - built in 1805 so it lacked something in the way of insulation. Most of the windows were original with a few that were replaced in the 1930s. We always kept the house quite warm. Even tripling the cost, it would cost us about $300 a month for heat and hot water. We always bought and paid for our heating oil during the summer and we were able to guage how much we would use. Of course, if this is the first year in your house it is much more difficult, but you can estimate using what the previous owners consumed.

The price of gas is dropping - $2.63.9 at Walmart today so maybe it follows that heating oil will drop too. I think some of you are over-estimating.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

Projected bills of $600 a month seem ridiculous to me. Although it has been 3 years since we lived in NH, our house was quite large and very old - built in 1805 so it lacked something in the way of insulation. Most of the windows were original with a few that were replaced in the 1930s. We always kept the house quite warm. Even tripling the cost, it would cost us about $300 a month for heat and hot water. We always bought and paid for our heating oil during the summer and we were able to guage how much we would use. Of course, if this is the first year in your house it is much more difficult, but you can estimate using what the previous owners consumed.

The price of gas is dropping - $2.63.9 at Walmart today so maybe it follows that heating oil will drop too. I think some of you are over-estimating.

Doesn't seem ridiculous to me at all, unfortunately.

 

[jonestavern]

Projected bills of $600 a month seem ridiculous to me. Although it has been 3 years since we lived in NH, our house was quite large and very old - built in 1805 so it lacked something in the way of insulation. Most of the windows were original with a few that were replaced in the 1930s. We always kept the house quite warm. Even tripling the cost, it would cost us about $300 a month for heat and hot water. We always bought and paid for our heating oil during the summer and we were able to guage how much we would use. Of course, if this is the first year in your house it is much more difficult, but you can estimate using what the previous owners consumed.
The price of gas is dropping - $2.63.9 at Walmart today so maybe it follows that heating oil will drop too. I think some of you are over-estimating.

the $2,100 is for the entire year. And of course there is padding room. when we have guests we do push the thermostat up to 65 or during wicked windy/freezing weather need to push it up to 68 just to get it around 58! this is our 5th winter in the house. we also went with a higher price per gallon because they offer a maintenance contract which includes a yearly free cleaning. they have also been right out to the house when the furnace is out. We have used this company in our previous home, too.
Our house is 1780. we have about 3,000 square feet, only half is heated in the winter. the attached woodshop is heated with a kerosene heater.the windows are mid-19th century (we are replacing with wood repros next spring & when properly crafted & installed, will be energy efficient) we're at 1,500 feet & get constant stiff winds from down Lempster-Unity way--this, of course, is the long side of our house
for all you gardeners out there, that side of the house is a gardening zone 3. the southerly, protected side of the house is an easy zone 5.
You may recognize Washington as one of the spots in NH often experiencing the greatest snowfall. Thank goodness for snow's insulation!
but since we can never depend on a lot of snow cover, another reason for over-estimating
we feel that higher heating costs are just part & parcel of owning & loving an historic house. what makes sense for energy efficiency, often compromises historic value, so we live with it & love it. We make our sacrifices & PTL, we are able to physically & financially afford it.
DH drives a Honda Insight & I drive a Honda Accord. We are looking to replace our truck(which was the small Nissan) with something fuel efficient--we need the truck for short runs & business
BTW, gas is going for $2.35.9 here now--at least in Goffstown tonight

Jean

 

[graygables]

I'm the one who stated that if you can't afford the cost of maintaining your home, then you can't afford to live there. I feel the same principal applies here. If you are a homeowner, you've got assets to draw on to heat your home, even if it means borrowing against your home's value as a last resort. We are not talking about people living in poverty. People knew this was coming, and had ample time to lock in a rate with an oil company or get on a budget plan with the gas company. And what about that rainy day savings account? Or your vacation fund? Or your Friday night babysitter and date night money?

I just have a hard time believing that the majority of people will find themselves getting their heat turned off with no other options. Yes, people will have to make sacrifices, but life isn't always what we wish it could be.

In some cases, people have been struggling along in homes they can't afford to be in to begin with, and probably should have sold and moved on long ago. Yes, winter heating costs might be the straw the breaks the camels back, but if it wasn't that it would eventually be something else, so what's the difference?

And NO WAY the government should be bailing out all but the most severe cases.

Anne

Your one-size-fits-all approach is flawed.

Not everyone has access to their equity, not everyone has the ability to lock in a rate, not everyone has a savings account, or a vacation fund, or Friday night dates. Not everyone "knew this was coming". We are not living in a house above our means by any stretch, but I am very worried about our winter heating bill.

We do not have access to our home equity (although we have equity, we can't get a loan b/c of a difficult pregnancy and child w/ problems born w/ no insurance during which my DH was off work for 4 months...the credit cards got a workout and we had a long time playing catch up) We also do not have a way to "lock in" a rate for natural gas. The best deal I can find is a contract with a "cap" at $1.79 per CCF, not so great, and only IF there is still "availability", otherwise, I'm at the mercy of the gas company.

Furthermore, we pay the bill for not one, but TWO houses, since my in-laws house is connected to ours on the same line (and, no, we can't get a seperate meter/bill b/c of the way the line is set up...tried that already). My FIL refuses to insulate better or lower the thermostat, so we pay the bill. Granted, his share is our "loan payment" to him when he helped us through a rough patch, but that doesn't stop the monthly amount from skyrocketing and impacting my budget.

We do not qualify for energy assistance as we hover just above the cut-off and my in-laws won't even consider applying, too much paperwork and red tape. We are a family that is in that gray area...we make too much to qualify for assistance/insurance/etc, but we don't quite make enough to make the payments for those things, either. There are many families like ours out there and poverty has nothing to do with it. It's called circumstances and, yes, we have to deal with it. It would be helpful, however, if there were some kind of tax breaks or other assistance to those of us who pay a higher percentage of our income for energy costs, insurance, etc.

And, no, we're not moving b/c we couldn't even get a small apartment for what our house payment is now (and will be paid off in 5 yrs)

 

[3DisneyBuggs]

I think many families will fall in that gray area- not poor enough to qualify for help but struggling.I have been on the budget plan for both gas and electric for a few years now. It is nice not to have those big bills in the summer and the winter. I think the government should be doing something about the high oil prices. With 6 billion dollars in profits for the big oil companies, I don't think there was ever an actual shortage. SO I really feel the natural disaster in the high heating and gasoline is thanks to GWB.

 

[Christine]

My mortgage payment is currently 25% of my total income, so I don't think I am in a house that is more than I can afford.

Last year, my heating bills were: Nov: $178, Dec: $185, Jan: $256, Feb: $322, and Mar: $210.

I shudder to think what they will be this year. To think that in February I might be paying around $500 for heat is just awful.

No, I do not think that I will have to have the heat turned off, but I never, ever dreamed that I might have to get a HELOC to pay my gas bill--at 6% interest. Or cut back on my retirement savings just to pay my utilities.

We can also "lock in" here; however, there is a clause that even if you lock in, if the price rises by a certain percentage over the lock--all bets are off.

 

[SonicLogic]

I just wanted to clarify that generators WERE NOT included in the tax free items.


As some others have so elequently stated on other threads today:
1) if you can't afford the household costs of your home, then may be you can't afford your home.
2) If you know winter is coming and there could be some problems, you better prepare yourself and not expect the government to bail you out. You have had fair warning.


Really I feel for those who are going to have to deal with these heating costs this year.

You are wrong to wit:

Under the sales-tax holiday law, portable electrical generators used to preserve food and provide lighting during a weather emergency can be purchased tax-free if they sell for $750 or less. Floridians have responded to this sales-tax holiday so strongly that many retailers report that they are running low on supplies of electrical generators available for immediate delivery.

http://www.myflorida.com/dor/news/news060905.html

I'm not going to comment on the other drivel you posted.

 

[C.Ann]

We can also "lock in" here; however, there is a clause that even if you lock in, if the price rises by a certain percentage over the lock--all bets are off.

----------

If the costs rise as much as projected, I think many people will be greeted with this unpleasant surprise - regardless of whether or not the clause was included in the initial contract.. Of course they can sue the supplier, but it takes time (and money) to get into court and meanwhile you pay the price or go without.. It's happened to people before and it will likely happen again..

Unless we have a mild winter, it's going to be rough on a lot of people - even some of those who thought they were prepared..

Let's just hope it's all hype and Mother Nature is kind to those living in cold climates..

 

[OhMari]

Projected bills of $600 a month seem ridiculous to me. Although it has been 3 years since we lived in NH, our house was quite large and very old - built in 1805 so it lacked something in the way of insulation. Most of the windows were original with a few that were replaced in the 1930s. We always kept the house quite warm. Even tripling the cost, it would cost us about $300 a month for heat and hot water. We always bought and paid for our heating oil during the summer and we were able to guage how much we would use. Of course, if this is the first year in your house it is much more difficult, but you can estimate using what the previous owners consumed.

The price of gas is dropping - $2.63.9 at Walmart today so maybe it follows that heating oil will drop too. I think some of you are over-estimating.

I respect your post, but I think you are a little clueless here. Gas prices have nothing to do with natural gas prices. Natural Gas just topped out at it's highest price as of Friday. Do you realize you also pay the same amount in distribution charge for the gas, as well as the gas you use. This happened around 3 years ago, about the time you left N.H. You should call the people that bought your house and see what the heating bill is. I think you maybe shocked.

 

[chrissyk]

We heat with oil, have kerosene portable heaters, & have fireplaces.
the thermostat is at 56 daytime, 50 at night.

Jean

Is that safe for your pipes? We were told to keep our heat at at least 58 when we lived in MA. Otherwise, we were risking our pipes bursting. This actually happened to my parents (their heat went out unbeknownst to them as they had no low-heat alarm at the time). It was $$$$ to make that repair!

Also, fireplaces=net heat loss. I don't think that a lot of people are aware that fireplaces are essentially heat lost up the chimney. You can get an insert w/a blower that will mitigate this, but it's still not the net heat gain that most people think they're getting from a fireplace. We had a very pretty fireplace in MA that NEVER got used in the winter, since we couldn't afford to have our $$$ gas heat going up the chimney just to have a nice fire.

 

[chrissyk]

Projected bills of $600 a month seem ridiculous to me. Although it has been 3 years since we lived in NH, our house was quite large and very old - built in 1805 so it lacked something in the way of insulation. Most of the windows were original with a few that were replaced in the 1930s. We always kept the house quite warm. Even tripling the cost, it would cost us about $300 a month for heat and hot water. We always bought and paid for our heating oil during the summer and we were able to guage how much we would use. Of course, if this is the first year in your house it is much more difficult, but you can estimate using what the previous owners consumed.

The price of gas is dropping - $2.63.9 at Walmart today so maybe it follows that heating oil will drop too. I think some of you are over-estimating.

You moved out of NH just before the heating prices started to skyrocket. 3 years ago, our natural gas bill wasn't horrid in MA. 2 years ago, it went up to $300-$400/month average for a 1600 sq. ft., relatively new house. I have no idea what the new owners paid last year, and I REALLY don't want to know what they're paying this year. My guess is that $600/month is well within the ballpark, though.

 

[Nancy]

Projected bills of $600 a month seem ridiculous to me. Although it has been 3 years since we lived in NH, our house was quite large and very old - built in 1805 so it lacked something in the way of insulation. Most of the windows were original with a few that were replaced in the 1930s. We always kept the house quite warm. Even tripling the cost, it would cost us about $300 a month for heat and hot water. We always bought and paid for our heating oil during the summer and we were able to guage how much we would use. Of course, if this is the first year in your house it is much more difficult, but you can estimate using what the previous owners consumed.

The price of gas is dropping - $2.63.9 at Walmart today so maybe it follows that heating oil will drop too. I think some of you are over-estimating.

Not ridiculous if you live in the colder states. My highest bill last year was almost 300.00. My house is 2000 square feet, thermostat set at 67, well insulated house with new windows. We have National Fuel for our gas supplier. This year if rates double and the winter is cold we will see 600.00 a month. Can I afford that, yep, if I cut out all extras in our budget...like food! LOL! I just got my gas bill for October on the bottom it says based on last years bills my budget billing would be a little over 200 a month for 12 months...but that could change if they redo it. I really don't want to pay over 200.00 in the summer when my bill is only about 30.00.

 

[graygables]

Also, fireplaces=net heat loss. I don't think that a lot of people are aware that fireplaces are essentially heat lost up the chimney. You can get an insert w/a blower that will mitigate this, but it's still not the net heat gain that most people think they're getting from a fireplace. We had a very pretty fireplace in MA that NEVER got used in the winter, since we couldn't afford to have our $$$ gas heat going up the chimney just to have a nice fire.

Just an FYI, if you have a Rumford fireplace, it is much more efficient and can be used as an alternate heat source. It's the traditional (Franklin) fireplaces that are like having a 3 foot open window in the middle of your living room. My DH is a masonry contractor and spent the 4 months he was off during the winter of 2003 learning ALLLLLL about it while we regretted building a Franklin in our common room. It doesn't get lit, either, unless we have a power outage and I need to cook on the crane. In the meantime, we stuff a couple of plastic grocery bags with styrofoam packing peanuts up inside the damper to help insulate it a little bit. DH has built 2 this year and has 3 more to do by the end of the year, so they are catching on. If you are looking at new construction, definitely consider a Rumford, but MAKE SURE your mason knows what he's doing...it's a whole other animal.

 

[jonestavern]

Is that safe for your pipes? We were told to keep our heat at at least 58 when we lived in MA. Otherwise, we were risking our pipes bursting. This actually happened to my parents (their heat went out unbeknownst to them as they had no low-heat alarm at the time). It was $$$$ to make that repair!
Also, fireplaces=net heat loss. I don't think that a lot of people are aware that fireplaces are essentially heat lost up the chimney. You can get an insert w/a blower that will mitigate this, but it's still not the net heat gain that most people think they're getting from a fireplace. We had a very pretty fireplace in MA that NEVER got used in the winter, since we couldn't afford to have our $$$ gas heat going up the chimney just to have a nice fire.

We regularly leave the heat on 50 here & so far, no frozen pipes, but they are well-wrapped & well on the inside of our house. Since we are where it is very windy & it is par for the course to get temps of -15 or much colder, we have never had a freeze up. this works for us, but certainly may not work for others.
Well, I lie, 2 yrs ago DSthen14, left the back door open & we went out for the evening. the shower pipes froze but didn't burst.
Our old house also has Tyvek wrap(DH took off the 225 yr old clapboards--most in great condition!--wrapped & insulated(accordingly for a timber frame house, which is insulated differently)-- from the outside, due to original plaster walls on the inside.
Our fireplaces are for those days when the electric is out, as are the chamber pots!
The fireplaces will have dampers installed as of this Nov, but we have them insulated & closed off except when needed. Our hearth we use to cook in & the rest are Rumford fireplaces, hi-tech in the late 1700's! they will be left looking authentic, but have new dampers installed any day now

jean