Will the monorail ever be expanded?

[skiingfast]

No way.. how much do they charge?

--


Of course, I never really expected the Treehouse Villas to open again either.. And Disney surprised me on that one.

Last trip to WDW the operator of the Sassalouga river boat asked me if I knew of the Treehouses and I told him I stayed there when I was a kid he didn't quite know what to say. Apparently he didn't know there were old treehouses.

Tokyo monorail 6 or 7 bucks. The oddest thing is a lot of the parking is at the back of the Disneyland park and you take the monorail around to the front or you park. I think parking is 20.

 

[skiingfast]

You can try to rationalize a monorail extension but I just don't see it happening.

WDW guests don't want to be asked to pay extra for transportation. And you can't exactly bundle it up in hotel rate increases when Disney is already being forced to discount 30% just to rent its rooms. Disney is trying its darndest just to wean people off of those discounts without adding hundreds-of-millions in monorail construction and operating costs.

I think disney's guest are already paying more for tranportation. The Delux resorts on the monorail line are more than WL and AKL.

 

[ChrisFL]

Part of the reason that Tokyo charges for their Monorail is because anything with more than 1 stop is under the city of Tokyo's transportation department or something, where they have to charge a fee.

This is why the train in Tokyo DL only has 1 stop.

 

[Markstudy]

The new monorail ??

 

[CanadianGuy]

Those are the new DL trains.. Certainly the ones at DW could be made to look like that after a refurb.

Pretty huh?

 

[Dznefreek]

Everyone keeps saying how an expansion would costs hundreds of millions of dollars; I disagree.
The biggest piece; the land, is already WDW property. I am sure any construction, road projects, and infrastructure repair and placement over the years has always been planned and executed with any type of expansion in mind like the pylons built under Epcot for example.
The beam construction, and fabrication would probably be next in terms of cost followed utilities, and then the trains. . . . . . just my opinion. . . .

 

[Lewisc]

Everyone keeps saying how an expansion would costs hundreds of millions of dollars; I disagree.
..... just my opinion. . . .

The Las Vegas monorail was constructed 2001-2004. The construction cost was approximately 385 million for 3.8 miles. This number doesn't include the cost for securing the right of way. Construction costs have increased since 2004. Disney is on soft land, "swamp land". That means higher costs for pilings.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/cgi-bi..._home/2000/Nov-29-Wed-2000/news/14920441.html

Opinions should be based on facts. Do you have any facts?

 

[skiingfast]

The Las Vegas monorail was constructed 2001-2004. The construction cost was approximately 385 million for 3.8 miles. This number doesn't include the cost for securing the right of way. Construction costs have increased since 2004. Disney is on soft land, "swamp land". That means higher costs for pilings.

Opinions should be based on facts. Do you have any facts?

Is it fact that swamp land in WDW is more expensive to build a foundation on than the LV strip? Please show support statements and or refereneces.

Knowing the relationship of price/demand. Are construction costs in 2004 in Americas fastest growing city less than 2010 in central Fl? Please show support statements and or references.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Is it fact that swamp land in WDW is more expensive to build a foundation on than the LV strip? Please show support statements and or refereneces.

Knowing the relationship of price/demand. Are construction costs in 2004 in Americas fastest growing city less than 2010 in central Fl? Please show support statements and or references.

How about this one..

Site deleted... didn't know that was an actual website!

MG

 

[tjkraz]

Is it fact that swamp land in WDW is more expensive to build a foundation on than the LV strip? Please show support statements and or refereneces.

Knowing the relationship of price/demand. Are construction costs in 2004 in Americas fastest growing city less than 2010 in central Fl? Please show support statements and or references.

Really?!?!

Are you honestly holding out some hope that it is cheaper to float tons of concrete on Florida swampland than on Las Vegas desert floor?

As for the price, there are certainly variations. But given that it cost nearly $400 million for a monorail project 6 years ago, I think we can safely assume that the price tag on a WDW monorail expansion will be somewhere north of $19.95.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Yeah... build it on swap land. Disney needs another E-Ticket thrill ride.

MG

 

[Lewisc]

The monorail at Newark Airport was completed in 1998. Construction costs were said to be 350 million dollars. 1.9 miles.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/30/n...l-to-open-at-newark-airport.html?pagewanted=1

I'll concede NY are construction costs may be high.

Light rail costs would be significantly less, maybe as low as 20 million /mile.

 

[doconeill]

Keep in mind...giving costs as "$ per mile" and using it as a comparison isn't really valid. There are all sorts of costs that have nothing to do with the length of the beam...the trainsets, the maintenance facilities, the staff, etc.

Think in terms of a MYW ticket. It's front-loaded. The first few "miles" cost the most, but the longer you stretch in the less per mile it costs.

Now, the longer you run it, the more trainsets you need, but the more trainsets you order the less per trainset you usually pay, etc.

Disney HAS a maintenance facility, but they would need to greatly expand, or more likely build a whole new facility. So it is not immune to those costs.

 

[skiingfast]

Really?!?!

Are you honestly holding out some hope that it is cheaper to float tons of concrete on Florida swampland than on Las Vegas desert floor?

QUOTE]

Is WDW swamp land?

A swamp is an area that is permanently or periodically flooded. Prior to the area being purchases by Disney there was a lot of ranch land, and cows won't graze in swamps if there is dry land available. When disney bought it they drained everything they wanted to and fill everything they wanted to.

 

[DC7800]

Keep in mind...giving costs as "$ per mile" and using it as a comparison isn't really valid. There are all sorts of costs that have nothing to do with the length of the beam...the trainsets, the maintenance facilities, the staff, etc.

Think in terms of a MYW ticket. It's front-loaded. The first few "miles" cost the most, but the longer you stretch in the less per mile it costs.

Now, the longer you run it, the more trainsets you need, but the more trainsets you order the less per trainset you usually pay, etc.

Disney HAS a maintenance facility, but they would need to greatly expand, or more likely build a whole new facility. So it is not immune to those costs.

Exactly correct. I've even seen projects quoted with a 'total cost' which included the cost of operating the system for X years, or perhaps included the cost of buying replacement trainsets after 20 years, etc. Those numbers can tell you something, but as a "cost per mile' it becomes completely meaningless.

The key to keeping costs from getting out of hand is to do things incrementally. Don't try to link all parks and resorts in one massive expansion. Start with the low-hanging fruit, perhaps by just linking one to two destinations, not far off the existing loops, where you get the greatest benefits (Wilderness Lodge, perhaps, as its little more than stones throw from the beam already).

Monorail expansion would be very expensive, but its not $100 million per mile expensive. That figure includes other costs. It is also not going to happen. Wasn't one of the latest monorail rumors was that expansion was dead even if the Four Seasons paid for it.

Light rail costs would be significantly less, maybe as low as 20 million /mile

Light rail shouldn't cost anwhere near $20 million per mile, unless as stated above, we are including other costs involved in the total project. The cost to lay a mile of track is a fraction of that.

 

[skiingfast]

Monorail expansion would be very expensive, but its not $100 million per mile expensive. That figure includes other costs. It is also not going to happen. Wasn't one of the latest monorail rumors was that expansion was dead even if the Four Seasons paid for it.

QUOTE]

I think the four seasons causes rumors to fly more than anything else. I know when they built one at my home ski area. It was going get it's own gondola into the building itself. Also after completion a chairlift's lower terminal was moved to degongest the base area but a rumor was floating around that it as being moved because of 4Seasons guest complaints about noise.

 

[Lewisc]

The 100 million/mile figure for Vegas didn't include the "extras"

That calculates to a capital cost of approximately $141 million per mile (2002 dollars) for an elevated alignment built almost entirely on donated right-of-way, through casino property and parking lots, and apparently without expenses for rolling stock, maintenance facilities, and other items. The switch for the spur is already provided in the ongoing privately financed project.

The total price for the project was over 650 million. The figure quoted was 385 million for 3.8 miles for just the construction costs.

Light rail cost between 15-100 million per mile. Variable is how much of the track has to be elevated or run underground.

Exactly correct. I've even seen projects quoted with a 'total cost' which included the cost of operating the system for X years, or perhaps included the cost of buying replacement trainsets after 20 years, etc. Those numbers can tell you something, but as a "cost per mile' it becomes completely meaningless.

The key to keeping costs from getting out of hand is to do things incrementally. Don't try to link all parks and resorts in one massive expansion. Start with the low-hanging fruit, perhaps by just linking one to two destinations, not far off the existing loops, where you get the greatest benefits (Wilderness Lodge, perhaps, as its little more than stones throw from the beam already).

Monorail expansion would be very expensive, but its not $100 million per mile expensive. That figure includes other costs. It is also not going to happen. Wasn't one of the latest monorail rumors was that expansion was dead even if the Four Seasons paid for it.



Light rail shouldn't cost anwhere near $20 million per mile, unless as stated above, we are including other costs involved in the total project. The cost to lay a mile of track is a fraction of that.

 

[Dznefreek]

Opinions should be based on facts. Do you have any facts?

Since when does one's opinion need to be fact based . . . . . .that is like saying a rumor needs to be based on fact. It is like saying in my opinion _____________ does/does not exist or is not real. It is my opinion.
Definitions of opinion:
a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty; "my opinion differs from yours";
a message expressing a belief about something; the expression of a belief that is held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof;
Comparing Vegas to Disney is apples to oranges. There isn't one . . . .

 

[skiingfast]

Comparing Vegas to Disney is apples to oranges. There isn't one . . . .

I think comparing Disney and Vegas is like Red Delicious to Granny Smith. I mean they are both monorails.

 

[Lewisc]

A rumor isn't based on facts. Sometimes a rumor starts with a partial truth. Sometimes a rumor is generated based on an untruth, but one that people believe. The black sections at the S/D aren't "temporary" rooms that can be popped out when the monorail is ready to go.

An opinion is a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. It's based on facts, but the facts aren't sufficient provide absolute certainty.

Does anyone think the building codes are more lenient in Orlando then Vegas? Does anyone think the cost of concrete and steel is significantly less in Orlando then it was in Vegas 5 years ago?
Pixie dust only works in the theme parks. Does anyone think pilings will cost less to construct in Orlando's ground? The monorails built in Newark and JFK airports were even more expensive.The fact that some posters want the construction costs of a monorail to be significantly cheaper then Vegas doesn't give them a basis to form an opinion. An opinion, without any facts, is either speculation or nonsense.


What's learned by the Vegas example is any new "monorail" at WDW is more likely to be light rail. Significantly cheaper. Disney has the space. Disney could elevate enough sections to provide "magic".

It's possible Disney may build some kind of light rail connecting WDW/Celebration station (if/when the train linking Orlando and Tampa is built) to one or more parts of WDW. This is nothing more then my speculation. It's logical but I don't have any facts to support.