will the draft be reininstated?

[jrydberg]

Evil Princess, I don't want to get into the ugliness, but I'll try to get the point across I think the basic point is that men don't have the luxury of deciding whether they're fit to engage in war. It doesn't matter what Joe Average thinks of his capability to handle war. Legally, to draft men and not women opens up a whole can of worms regarding discrimination based on gender.

I guess the bottom line is I can respect the fact that you don't think you're capable of handling it. But that's irrelevant to whether women as a whole should be drafted or not. Does that make any sense?

 

[cati]

[xx

 

[Arabella Figg 2003]

In the Hanoi Hilton, I remember reading, men who gave information to the enemy to avoid torture for themselves or others were considered pariahs.

It does not matter if the person being tortured is male or female, as those in the military today will tell you.

Jessica Lynch may have gotten all the publicity, but there were several other members of the US armed forces who were rescued from captivity.

I prefer not to see either of my daughters on the front lines...but if called upone, they'd serve.

 

[Arabella Figg 2003]

Originally posted by jrydberg
Evil Princess, I don't want to get into the ugliness, but I'll try to get the point across I think the basic point is that men don't have the luxury of deciding whether they're fit to engage in war. It doesn't matter what Joe Average thinks of his capability to handle war. Legally, to draft men and not women opens up a whole can of worms regarding discrimination based on gender.

I guess the bottom line is I can respect the fact that you don't think you're capable of handling it. But that's irrelevant to whether women as a whole should be drafted or not. Does that make any sense?

I'm laughing, because my father was convinced he was unable to handle it -- until he had to.

 

[Evil Princess]

Originally posted by jrydberg
Evil Princess, I don't want to get into the ugliness, but I'll try to get the point across I think the basic point is that men don't have the luxury of deciding whether they're fit to engage in war. It doesn't matter what Joe Average thinks of his capability to handle war. Legally, to draft men and not women opens up a whole can of worms regarding discrimination based on gender.

I guess the bottom line is I can respect the fact that you don't think you're capable of handling it. But that's irrelevant to whether women as a whole should be drafted or not. Does that make any sense?

It makes sense, and I completely understand what you're saying. You're right, men don't have the option of deciding whether or not they're fit to fight, even if they may be built similarly to a small woman.

I just don't think that a draft forcing women to go to war is going to go over all too well in this country. Sure, you have women like AFR living here, but you also have women like me, and I know that not every woman is like AFR.

BTW, I appreciate the fact that you address me respectfully, even though I'm younger than you. Shows me that some people can disagree and still stay level headed.

 

[Arabella Figg 2003]

Princess, you'd be surprised what you could handle if you had to.

 

[jrydberg]

Actually, I agree that it probably wouldn't go over too well in this country. And it's unlikely to happen anytime in the near future. Just that logically it doesn't make sense to me to draft one and not the other.

But realistically, I don't think either of us have to worry about a draft anytime soon

 

[cati]

In the Hanoi Hilton, I remember reading, men who gave information to the enemy to avoid torture for themselves or others were considered pariahs.

Yes, I agree with you on this and I also agree with your post.

I just am not ready to see my DD drafted. I dont want her relying on a man to keep her up. I have a job and can take care of myself if need be. I want her to be strong and confident. But that does not mean I want her on the front lines.

I guess none of us really want to see any of our children on the front lines, as I am sure my great-grandfather, grandfather and father all felt in the previous wars.

I am just going to respectfully say it is ok for all of us to disagree on this subject.

 

[Evil Princess]

Originally posted by cati

I am just going to respectfully say it is ok for all of us to disagree on this subject.

 

[I <3 Eeyore]

I call it like I see it, princess. I'm sorry if that offends but I'm not about to sugarcoat my opinions on something so important. We all make judgements about the people we interact with, whether online or in person. We certainly can agree to disagree all around.

 

[Maleficent13]

I realize that I'm getting into this debate really late (darn not having a computer at home!), but FWIW:

Evil Princess, voting is not just "pulling a lever". It's what happens after you pull it, and the consequences of which lever you pulled. You state that you think breathing is more important. You also state that you want a career, and several other things that I would have to go back several pages to list. Do you think you would still cherish your breaths if with every one of them it meant you were bowing to another's will? Would you still want to "live", if it meant never making another decision for yourself, and living a life someone else has chosen for you? I don't think you can truly conceive of what that would be like. I don't think anyone can, really. We are truly priviledged to live here, and we need to take that very seriously.

I am not saying I would want to be drafted. I wouldn't. Nor would I want my brother, or my nephews, or my SO to be. I would be terrified if any of us, including myself, had to go to war. I don't know if I could handle it. But there have been a lot of things in my life I was sure I would be able to handle and yet I'm still here.

JMHO.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by jipsy
sed·i·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sd-mnt)
n.
Material that settles to the bottom of a liquid; lees.
Solid fragments of inorganic or organic material that come from the weathering of rock and are carried and deposited by wind, water, or ice.

ok.....Let me change that to sentiment.

 

[Evil Princess]

Originally posted by I <3 Eeyore
I call it like I see it, princess. I'm sorry if that offends but I'm not about to sugarcoat my opinions on something so important. We all make judgements about the people we interact with, whether online or in person. We certainly can agree to disagree all around.

It's one thing not to sugarcoat your opinions on important issues. This is a subject that many are passionate about, it hits close to home for some so by all means tell it like it is.

Calling someone names is not being truthful, it's being childish.

Evil Princess, voting is not just "pulling a lever". It's what happens after you pull it, and the consequences of which lever you pulled.

I'm aware of that, and if you read the whole thread you would have read my response to AFR. I used the whole pulling a lever thing and explained why I simplified it to explain that living is more important to me, whether I can vote or not. Not every husband 100 years ago was a jerk who didn't listen to his wife at all and treated her like nothing. But this is just getting to the point where I'm beating a dead horse.

 

[Maleficent13]

In the immortal words of Thomas Paine:

"Take my liberty, but please don't hurt me!"

Sorry, sorry...it was there...

 

[Rutt and Tuke]

Originally posted by Maleficent13
In the immortal words of Thomas Paine:

"Take my liberty, but please don't hurt me!"

Sorry, sorry...it was there...

 

[Arabella Figg 2003]

Originally posted by Evil Princess
It's one thing not to sugarcoat your opinions on important issues. This is a subject that many are passionate about, it hits close to home for some so by all means tell it like it is.

Calling someone names is not being truthful, it's being childish.

Evil Princess, voting is not just "pulling a lever". It's what happens after you pull it, and the consequences of which lever you pulled.

I'm aware of that, and if you read the whole thread you would have read my response to AFR. I used the whole pulling a lever thing and explained why I simplified it to explain that living is more important to me, whether I can vote or not. Not every husband 100 years ago was a jerk who didn't listen to his wife at all and treated her like nothing. But this is just getting to the point where I'm beating a dead horse.

I see things from a far different perspective than you do. you see, I married a jerk. I will be celebrating the 10th anniversary of my personal independence day in October. I am abundantly grateful that I could leave the jerk, and that I could support myself and my children without having to rely on him.

I wouldn't want to have been stuck with a jerk because some other woman felt the way you do.

 

[I <3 Eeyore]

Originally posted by Evil Princess
I just don't think that a draft forcing women to go to war is going to go over all too well in this country. Sure, you have women like AFR living here, but you also have women like me, and I know that not every woman is like AFR.

I don't think a draft would go over well regardless if it involves just men or men and women. I think two separate issues are in question here:

1) Should the US have a draft?

2) Should women be required to register for selective service?

My vote for number 1 is no, I don't believe a draft is in the best interest of the country. My vote for the second is a hearty yes. If we expect our demands for other equalities to be heard and taken seriously, we have to be willing to accept the (in some people's minds) less desireable result. In this case, it would be requiring from women what has been required from men for years.

We can argue until the cows come home about who's more fit to serve in what capacity. The bottom line is, if someone isn't fit to serve, the military sends them packing. Anyone who is incapable of the requirements gets dc'd.

I have a problem with blanket statements like, 'The majority feels, acts, believes, the same way I do so that's proof I'm right.' OK, I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it. No, it isn't proof of anything other than that it's your opinion. If you substantiate your statements with actual facts or refer to them as your opinion, that gets my respect and my attention.

As for treating you with respect, it was rude of me to refer to you as a spoiled, petulant child. Just because it's my perception doesn't mean it's true. By the same token, it's pretty rude to tell an adult 2.5 times your age to 'listen up'. That's really no way to gain respect for your position. I've never really had much patience with princesses so it did set me off just a bit.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by I <3 Eeyore


I have a problem with blanket statements like, 'The majority feels, acts, believes, the same way I do so that's proof I'm right.' OK, I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it. No, it isn't proof of anything other than that it's your opinion. If you substantiate your statements with actual facts or refer to them as your opinion, that gets my respect and my attention.

Yesterday, I would have fought you on this one tooth and nail. Having seen the poll results however (not that I think they're in any way representative of the public, only because it's not a scientific poll) I will have to concede on this point.

 

[Evil Princess]

Originally posted by I <3 Eeyore


I have a problem with blanket statements like, 'The majority feels, acts, believes, the same way I do so that's proof I'm right.' OK, I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it. No, it isn't proof of anything other than that it's your opinion. If you substantiate your statements with actual facts or refer to them as your opinion, that gets my respect and my attention.

Perhaps I should have stated it as "every woman that i've come in contact with in the past three days and asked them the question out of curiousity agrees" with me. Or maybe "The majority of women elligable for draft in the NY tri-state area?" Reguardless, I doubt that it what ticked you off.

As for treating you with respect, it was rude of me to refer to you as a spoiled, petulant child. Just because it's my perception doesn't mean it's true. By the same token, it's pretty rude to tell an adult 2.5 times your age to 'listen up'. That's really no way to gain respect for your position. I've never really had much patience with princesses so it did set me off just a bit.

See, that's the problem with the internet. One's tone of voice can't be heard, and sometimes things get translated strangely and taken up the wrong way. If I was having a conversation with you face to face, I didn't say "Hey, you, LISTEN UP! Pay attention to me or else!" I was just informing you to read in addition to AFR since I was addressing the two of you. Perhaps not the most eloquent choice of words, and if that offended you I'm sorry, but the internet has a tendency to make understanding the context of phrases difficult.

The fact that you never really had much patience for princesses is really your loss. I was taught at a very young age not to judge a person by their appearance. I have many girl friends of mine who are the furthest thing from a princess possible, yet that doesn't affect my decision of whether or not they're a good person.

 

[I <3 Eeyore]

The fact that you never really had much patience for princesses is really your loss. I was taught at a very young age not to judge a person by their appearance. I have many girl friends of mine who are the furthest thing from a princess possible, yet that doesn't affect my decision of whether or not they're a good person.

A person's appearance means absolutely nothing to me. I've never judged a person's worth on what they look like, wear, or carry. I was referring to attitude when I used the term princesses. I don't see it as a loss but that's ok, we don't have to agree on this one either.