Will Euthanasia ever be legal for humans?

[Pea-n-Me]

I don't know how it works in Belgium, but in Holland over 1000 people a year are killed without their permision. Either they are in a coma or are deemed not mentally compitant to make the decision, they will even terminate a life if the person is suffering from depression and not a terminally ill person. Even physically disabled children are being denied anything but pallitive care til they die. I am sorry but after Doctor Harold Shipman (uk) a general doctor decided that he had the right to kill over 200 of his patients I would NOT give this power to any doctor.

And there you have the "slippery slope" argument against euthanasia: http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/euthanasia/euth_slipslope.shtml

 

[SandraVB79]

I don't know how it works in Belgium, but in Holland over 1000 people a year are killed without their permision. Either they are in a coma or are deemed not mentally compitant to make the decision, they will even terminate a life if the person is suffering from depression and not a terminally ill person. Even physically disabled children are being denied anything but pallitive care til they die. I am sorry but after Doctor Harold Shipman (uk) a general doctor decided that he had the right to kill over 200 of his patients I would NOT give this power to any doctor.

As with many things, such as abortion, euthanasia exists, whether it's legal or not. Let's not be an ostrich (sp?) and just accept that fact. Long before we had a law about it, people did it. We hear once in a while stories about how nurses in nursing homes "kill" some of the elderly because "they felt sorry for them" yada yada yada.
That is something that happened before and will probably happen in the future. It's not because you say they are not allowed to, that some people will stop doing things. Heck, I crossed the street when the light was red. And if everyone didn't do things that aren't allowed, the two little girls that disappeared two weeks ago in Liège wouldn't be dead (and one raped) by now.
But that is life. And that are some of the things people do.

I will NEVER believe that nowhere in the US, euthanasia isn't performed in one way or another, legal or not.
And I do not approve these acts of euthanasia in case that they are not life-threatening ill, depressed, handicapped, ...

But I do think it's good that we have a law that legalizes it in some cases. Because that way, doctors who want to help people "in need" can do it without risking everything. Family members do not have to risk to be trialed (sp? is that even a word) because they want to help that suffering family member.

There will always be abuses, but those abuses would also be there without the law. For those other cases, it's good the law exists.




Next to all this, doctors are free to choose whether they do this or not. In Belgium, we have many "catholic" hospitals, and we know that in case you want euthanasia, you should chose another hospital, because the catholic ones demanded from their doctors that they don't do it.

 

[LoraJ]

And I wouldn't want my estate bankrupted while I'm languishing away in a moment-by-moment hell.

I'd rather move on and pass my gifts on to my family. To me that's just another part of the insult. Take away everything I've worked for in order to keep me "alive" and in horrible pain with only death as relief.

No thanks. Not for me.

And this is exactly what is happening to my boyfriend's dad right now. Not that he has anything in his estate anyway. But he can't even die with dignity because he's on a waiting list for hospice care. He gets his morphine shot that makes him feel semi-okay for one hour, and then he is in immense pain for 2 hours until he gets his next shot. He told us last night he doesn't want to live anymore and for them to stop giving him anything. I told my boyfriend maybe he should discuss taking him off the fluid IV's but my boyfriend just said he's confused and doesn't really mean it.

I think his dad totally means it. He's been asking for Dr. Kevorkian books for weeks now.

But really, how do you justify putting your dog or cat to sleep but force a human to suffer?

 

[mrsltg]

And this is exactly what is happening to my boyfriend's dad right now. Not that he has anything in his estate anyway. But he can't even die with dignity because he's on a waiting list for hospice care. He gets his morphine shot that makes him feel semi-okay for one hour, and then he is in immense pain for 2 hours until he gets his next shot. He told us last night he doesn't want to live anymore and for them to stop giving him anything. I told my boyfriend maybe he should discuss taking him off the fluid IV's but my boyfriend just said he's confused and doesn't really mean it.

I think his dad totally means it. He's been asking for Dr. Kevorkian books for weeks now.

But really, how do you justify putting your dog or cat to sleep but force a human to suffer?

And again, this is why we need quality end of life care. And yes, if he wants off the fluids it's his choice to make. You and your bf also need to be more proactive in getting this man the care he needs. Two hours of pain is unacceptable. Get ahold of the doctor and demand an uptick in the meds. If he won't do it, find out why and get the man to another doctor. Find out what the problem is with hospice. The intake nurse should be able to see him within a few days (my mom is a hospice nurse in NY) - keep calling until he is seen. I know this is overwhelming but it needs to be done. You and bf need to be advocates now. Good luck!

 

[LoraJ]

Anymore morphine would probably be an illegal dose. He can't get into hospice because he is self pay and they will only take one self-pay patient at a time. I guess dying with dignity is only for those with insurance, for everyone else, you have to get lucky.

 

[escape]

Anymore morphine would probably be an illegal dose. He can't get into hospice because he is self pay and they will only take one self-pay patient at a time. I guess dying with dignity is only for those with insurance, for everyone else, you have to get lucky.

You guys have really had a tough time with all of this.

I'm surprised that your bf's father isn't on a morphine drip. I would think that would be more helpful for him.

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time getting him into hospice. I didn't realize that it was so strict with non-insured patients. That just doesn't seem right.

 

[dcentity2000]

It IS legal in my country.
Now they are trying to put law together that makes it legal for kids too.

I was about to say, it already is legal for human beings!

I have zero idea where I stand on the subject, I haven't really given it much thought.

It'll be interesting to read the replies on this thread.



Rich::

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

I watched my father suffer a horrible death. He begged me to call Dr. Kevorkian. Of course, I couldn't do it. I know that had my dad been able to make that call himself, he would have done so or he would have taken other measures to end his pain.

I never thought I would be for euthanasia. I'm still not convinced it is the right thing to do for humans but I know in my dad's case and many similar cases, it might not be such a bad thing.

When my dad was dying he also asked me to call Dr. Kevorkian. We would not have done it but we were not the ones suffering. I feel it should be up to the person. If the suffering is so bad it should be their choice if they want to end it. We would never let an animal suffer so I don't understand why it is okay for a human?

 

[MzDiz]

Everyone should have to experience first hand watching someone slowly die from a painful, degenerative disease - then ask them what they think of assisted suicide. Better yet, make them a fly on the wall of a hospice or nursing home where the employees steal their possesions, slap them, pinch them, don't clean them properly, etc. all while they're crying out in misery.
The way we treat our sick and elderly in this country is shameful.

 

[LoraJ]

You guys have really had a tough time with all of this.

I'm surprised that your bf's father isn't on a morphine drip. I would think that would be more helpful for him.

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time getting him into hospice. I didn't realize that it was so strict with non-insured patients. That just doesn't seem right.

He doesn't want a drip.He had one before and didn't like it.

You can get hospice care for free at home. But then they need 24 hour care, which is not free. My boyfriend isn't staff (yet) so he can't qualify for the family leave act.

Something does need to be done to make dying with dignity more accessible.

 

[escape]

When my dad was dying he also asked me to call Dr. Kevorkian. We would not have done it but we were not the ones suffering. I feel it should be up to the person. If the suffering is so bad it should be their choice if they want to end it. We would never let an animal suffer so I don't understand why it is okay for a human?

Everyone should have to experience first hand watching someone slowly die from a painful, degenerative disease - then ask them what they think of assisted suicide. Better yet, make them a fly on the wall of a hospice or nursing home where the employees steal their possesions, slap them, pinch them, don't clean them properly, etc. all while they're crying out in misery.
The way we treat our sick and elderly in this country is shameful.

 

[mrsltg]

Everyone should have to experience first hand watching someone slowly die from a painful, degenerative disease - then ask them what they think of assisted suicide. Better yet, make them a fly on the wall of a hospice or nursing home where the employees steal their possesions, slap them, pinch them, don't clean them properly, etc. all while they're crying out in misery.
The way we treat our sick and elderly in this country is shameful.

I agree with your last statement though I disagree with the tone of your post. Are you saying then that killing them is better?

And yes, I have seen four grandparents die slowly. One alzheimers, two brain cancer, one severe brain infection. The first was not capable of making the decision nor was it the place of her family to decide that she needed to die. Without consent, euthanasia is not the word for it. The two with brain cancer died in a short amount of time. Both had surgery. Both had stage 4 cancer. Both had radiation. One died within 6 months, one died within 3. One was sick before pain management became the issue it is today and was in pain - a lot. The other was not in pain. The last was brain dead and a decision was made not to insert a feeding tube as per his living will. Finally, I made this decision for my own son so I am PAINFULLY aware of what the decision entails.

Assisted suicide is not suicide. If you act to end someone's life by doing anything other than denying medical assistance (and in some cases, this too) you have contributed to their death and as I said, there is already a name for that. If you want to die, do it yourself. Involving others sets in place a whole chain of actions that don't belong in society - especially legally.

Again, let's focus our attention on getting doctors to the point where end of life treatment is more than adequate and pain is not an issue. There is much to be done.

 

[Feralpeg]

I would hope that we will someday treat humans suffering and with no hope of recovery as well as we treat our pets.

If I ever find myself to have a condition for which there is no hope of recovery and in which I know I will die in great pain, I won't let it get that far. I will say my goodbyes to my family while I am still able and I will go someplace remote and end things on my terms.

 

[crz4mm2]

I would hope that we will someday treat humans suffering and with no hope of recovery as well as we treat our pets.

If I ever find myself to have a condition for which there is no hope of recovery and in which I know I will die in great pain, I won't let it get that far. I will say my goodbyes to my family while I am still able and I will go someplace remote and end things on my terms.

I agree. I hope I can find the strength if the time comes.

 

[Jen_in_NH]

This one has always befuddled me too, especially after adopting pets.

Why is it such an accepted part of animal guardianship that you will "put down" an animal when its quality of life has become unlivable, to the point where you would be judged (rightly) to be a bad person if you allowed it to languish in pain with no hope of significant recovery, but we insist on making humans suffer every last horrible moment, even when there is no hope of recovery and it's an incredible drain of the family's resources.

I don't get it at all. I would certainly like the option if the time comes...

I agree with you. When my dog was in pain, and not able to walk without falling, we brought him to the vet and had him put to sleep. It was the hardest thing I've ever done, but to keep him alive and in constant pain was not fair.

However, when my Nana was dying of cancer, and in horrible pain, we all stayed at her house, medicated her as best we could, and watched her die a very slow painful death over a week. I know at the end, my mom and my aunt were giving her enough morphine to keep her comfortable, regardless of what the actual prescribed dose was.

I think it should be available for those who want it, and who have a need for it. I look at it as similar to a DNR. The DNR says "don't try to save me if I'm already dying/dead". PAS says "don't try to save me if it's futile"

Just my opinion - don't shoot

Jen

 

[Denine]

I certainly hope not! People and animals are not the same. God has his own plan as to when it is our time to die and we are not to mess with that plan.

 

[Stitchfans]

And I wouldn't want my estate bankrupted while I'm languishing away in a moment-by-moment hell.

I'd rather move on and pass my gifts on to my family. To me that's just another part of the insult. Take away everything I've worked for in order to keep me "alive" and in horrible pain with only death as relief.

No thanks. Not for me.

This is exactly what was going through my head. Every penny I worked so hard for my entire life gone, and possibly putting my family in deep debt. The hosptial and drs are racking in the money and I am suffering? doesn't make sense to me.

I have a living will. My fear is no one in my family will have the guts to follow through with my wishes.

 

[bevtoy]

I agree with your last statement though I disagree with the tone of your post. Are you saying then that killing them is better?

And yes, I have seen four grandparents die slowly. One alzheimers, two brain cancer, one severe brain infection. The first was not capable of making the decision nor was it the place of her family to decide that she needed to die. Without consent, euthanasia is not the word for it. The two with brain cancer died in a short amount of time. Both had surgery. Both had stage 4 cancer. Both had radiation. One died within 6 months, one died within 3. One was sick before pain management became the issue it is today and was in pain - a lot. The other was not in pain. The last was brain dead and a decision was made not to insert a feeding tube as per his living will. Finally, I made this decision for my own son so I am PAINFULLY aware of what the decision entails.

Assisted suicide is not suicide. If you act to end someone's life by doing anything other than denying medical assistance (and in some cases, this too) you have contributed to their death and as I said, there is already a name for that. If you want to die, do it yourself. Involving others sets in place a whole chain of actions that don't belong in society - especially legally.

Again, let's focus our attention on getting doctors to the point where end of life treatment is more than adequate and pain is not an issue. There is much to be done.

Well said!
I watched 3 parents die of cancer and a fourth from diabetic neuropathy/pneumonia. If one wishes to end their life they should not involve others in their suicide.

 

[VSL]

I certainly hope not! People and animals are not the same. God has his own plan as to when it is our time to die and we are not to mess with that plan.

But surely
- the same thing should apply to animals (ie, we should let them suffer too as we should not 'mess with that plan')
- we are already 'messing with the plan' by keeping people alive longer with medical care

Also, not everyone believes in God.

 

[KarenC]

I honestly believe that by the time I'm old enough for Medicare, that hastening the end of life will become (practically) a sacrament. I forget the exact statistic, but some huge percentage (like 90%) of a person's lifetime health expenses occur during the last few weeks of life. When the baby boomers are sucking the US Treasury dry, there will undoubtedly be limits on how much medical care will be provided to terminally ill patients. If you don't like that idea, then start demanding our politicians deal with the high cost of health care in America and the budget deficit now.