Wilderness Lodge (BRV and CCV) owners are getting shafted

[MoreTravels]

I feel the previous BRV owners are getting shafted. The old vacant land has been rebuilt with tons of rooms added on the same property. The resort amenities have not been significantly increased. The childcare (Cubs Den) has been eliminated with space abandoned. But they did not add much more space in Quick Service restaurant. In fact, they moved the fountain drink machine from inside to outside dining room, losing tables. Now you have guests from 2 DVC resorts fighting to use the same restaurant Roaring Fork. Now people eat with chairs outside in corridors. People also buy and eat at main hotel lobby. The so-called new QS restaurant is outdoor and closed frequently in cold weather like this past Christmas holiday.

Then the BRV Annual Due has increased significantly to almost $7 per point? Are the old owners subsidizing new facilities? How about the old capital equipment that was paid off by old BRV fee? Shouldn't CCV owners pay a buy-in fee before they can use it? For example, the DVC pool, DVC health club, etc...

 

[jarestel]

Things change. Resorts and amenities change. Theme parks change. Fees increase. One of the drawbacks to signing up for a 50 year commitment is that we may not care for the changes when they occur.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I think you misunderstand DVC facilities and dues.

• The Cub's Den was not paid for via dues or an included amenity.
• The QS facilities are also not supported through dues.
• The pool near VWL was not DVC-exclusive, and its maintenance was being partly paid for by WL hotel guests. It was a shared facility.
• The health club was also a shared facility, not owned by or paid for exclusively by DVC dues. It was open to WL guests and upkeep was a shared expense. The capital outlay was not DVC.

Look at your dues statement and look at budgets. 25% of the total increase was property taxes alone. Admin costs actually went DOWN, but maintenance went up (which is likely more the hurricane than CCV), Transport and Security are up, and Management Fee and "Member Activities" are up.

There are a couple sources for the annual budgets. They are public as of the Annual Meeting.

 

[Dean Marino]

Gotta confess... just us? The only thing we ever went to Roaring Fork for was a coke . Been eating breakfast every day at Whispering Canyon - for about 12 years, 16 days per year . And we love the place . As was mentioned above.... "shared facilities" are sort of just that - they aren't DVC exclusive facilities.

Now - a plug? factoring up front BRV costs, dues costs, vs DISCOUNTED room costs over 6 years? We hit "break even" at the six year mark (APR 2018). Our nightly room cost is about $120/night. We really don't feel shafted with discounted rack hitting about $510/night in the main Hotel . Just us, but WDW offered a great deal on ROOMS through DVC. We personally feel that we have gotten MORE than our money's worth .

 

[disneynutz]

As posted you aren't getting the raw deal that you think you are. That being said, Disney will do what's good for Disney, you can either stay on for the ride or get off their train. Sad but true.

Bill

 

[BWV Dreamin]

As an longtime owner and having just visited BRV, I feel the changes have really made a positive difference. The new (old quiet) pool is awesome, Geyser point grill great, and the excavating of the land to now have true water views have made it a more desirable stay. Have you been there lately? I don't find our dues unreasonable and as other DVC resorts get rehabbed, I'm sure their dues will reflect that as well.

 

[CarolMN]

We were fortunate to be able to stay at CCV this past November. I loved the resort and our 1 bedroom villa. While I do not own at either BRV/VWL or CCV, it is now our second favorite resort. IMO, they did a beautiful job with the changes and new amenities, while still keeping with the overall theme. It's easy to see why so many especially love this resort during the holidays.

Other than the cabins, the DVC villas replaced WL rooms, so IMO, it's unfair to say they added tons of rooms. FWIW, the resort was full when we were there and we did not find either the QS (Roaring Fork) or the Geyser Point restaurants crowded. Territory Lounge also had room for more whenever we walked by. We seldom waited more than a few minutes for the boats or a bus.

Again, we don't own there, but if we did, I would be very pleased with the changes.

 

[DSLRuser]

you ask me....people who stayed at Wilderness Lodge are the ones who are getting shafted. Half of the rooms they used to be able to book are now DVC. This puts increased demand on WL rooms, which increases rates.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

As an longtime owner and having just visited BRV, I feel the changes have really made a positive difference. The new (old quiet) pool is awesome, Geyser point grill great, and the excavating of the land to now have true water views have made it a more desirable stay. Have you been there lately? I don't find our dues unreasonable and as other DVC resorts get rehabbed, I'm sure their dues will reflect that as well.

I am looking forward to our upcoming stay. The new pool looks incredible.

 

[DVC Jen]

BRV owner since the year it opened. I was very nervous about the changes but kept an open mind. I LOVE the changes. I do miss seeing the woods on the lakeside. I would sit out on our balcony and saw many many deer foraging in those woods over the years. Now while I do miss that - I really enjoy the true lake view. I haven't been in the new pool yet but I think it looks really nice. I would love to stay in one of the cabins but considering the point per night cost I doubt that will ever happen. Geyser Point is wonderful. I do wish there was more seating however. I even like the new Roaring Fork layout - not as much a fan of the new menu.

I don' feel shafted, ripped off or cheated out of anything. Dues wise - I was expecting it to be more of a jump than it actually was.

 

[DebbieB]

you ask me....people who stayed at Wilderness Lodge are the ones who are getting shafted. Half of the rooms they used to be able to book are now DVC. This puts increased demand on WL rooms, which increases rates.

This is the same thing that happened at Animal Kingdom Lodge. I suspect the occupany rate wasn’t high enough.

 

[CarolMN]

This is the same thing that happened at Animal Kingdom Lodge. I suspect the occupany rate wasn’t high enough.

Agree. Resort division would not have allowed the conversion if occupancy was meeting target. It's not Disney's objective to discount. They only do it because something is better than nothing.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I am looking forward to our upcoming stay. The new pool looks incredible.

Us, too. It seems like every time we stayed at VWL and used the old pool, the heater wasn't working. So it was cold (and we usually stayed there in Dec or Jan). We'll be there for Oct this time (and a new pool heater in our pool at home which is out right now).

 

[Murron]

As an longtime owner and having just visited BRV, I feel the changes have really made a positive difference. The new (old quiet) pool is awesome, Geyser point grill great, and the excavating of the land to now have true water views have made it a more desirable stay. Have you been there lately? I don't find our dues unreasonable and as other DVC resorts get rehabbed, I'm sure their dues will reflect that as well.

Just curious..... The old quiet pool was (IMO) quite small and in a very shady area. Has that changed? Is the pool a bit bigger with some sunshine?

 

[Deb & Bill]

Just curious..... The old quiet pool was (IMO) quite small and in a very shady area. Has that changed? Is the pool a bit bigger with some sunshine?

Much bigger and many of the trees are now down with the cabins along the water front area.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

you ask me....people who stayed at Wilderness Lodge are the ones who are getting shafted. Half of the rooms they used to be able to book are now DVC. This puts increased demand on WL rooms, which increases rates.

Well there is always the rental market through brokers and private owners. Might just save you some money as a consequence.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Just curious..... The old quiet pool was (IMO) quite small and in a very shady area. Has that changed? Is the pool a bit bigger with some sunshine?

No, much bigger and zero entry with really nice bathrooms and upgraded seating. I forgot to mention a beautiful hot tub as well.

 

[amym2]

We were there the week before Christmas and Geyser Point was open and fantastic. It has a quick service window- was that closed when the weather was cold? We'd probably order there and take the food back to our room instead of eating at Roaring Forks.

 

[drusba]

Not sure how the following particular point may effect overall dues but it is an interesting difference from other combined Disney hotel and DVC resorts. VWL had one particular common element difference, under its common facilities agreement, from resorts like BWV, BCV, and AKV. Though both the main WL pool and VWL pool were common elements of the overall resort, all the maintenance costs of the main pool were annually the responsibility of the Disney hotel entity and all the maintenance costs of the VWL pool were the responsibility of the VWL DVC entity and thus owners via dues. See 9/12/2000 Common Facilities Agreement between WorldCo and DVD, Orange Cty Bk 6170, pg 1418.

That situation has now changed with the addition of CCV and the redo of the VWL (now BRV) pool. Both pools remain common elements but now the maintence costs are shared for both pools by all three entities -- BRV, CCV, and the hotel -- on a "pro rata" basis (which usually means at Disney something calculated based on potential or probable occupancy numbers). See Feb 16, 2017, First Amendment to the Common Facilities Agreement of Sep 2000, Doc# 20170096679.

 

[tjkraz]

you ask me....people who stayed at Wilderness Lodge are the ones who are getting shafted. Half of the rooms they used to be able to book are now DVC. This puts increased demand on WL rooms, which increases rates.

Ah, now you've caught on to Disney's diabolical plot!

Though transitioning rooms from hotel to DVC makes sense. All things being equal, every dvc contract they sell means one less hotel guest. Ideally Disney wants to keep growing the DVC membership AND adding hotel business, but that's easier said than done. Overall they are still in a growth mode with new DVC additions/conversions joined by Art of Animation and Coronado Springs on the hotel side. But I don't think it's realistic to add 300 new DVC villas every 2-3 years AND maintain (or grow) their hotel business.

Bottom line: Demand for WL will drop as many of its fans buy into Copper Creek. The new and old villas are bookable by cash guests. But yes, Disney would like nothing more than to be able to charge more for WL hotel rooms given the smaller supply.