Why no Monorail

So, I love the monorail. It was my childhood dream to drive those trains. And I did. That being said, I don't think a monorail expansion would be what people dream it to be.


One can throw the money argument around for expanding the monorail... and while very true (it would cost more than DAK itself to build a monorail from TTC to DAK), the real reason is logistics.

A monorail is a fixed guideway based system. With a fixed guideway system comes many limitations. The first and foremost being that they are not flexible. Now, while that might be okay in a city environment, where you have a hub-and-spoke layout, and traffic is dispursed. But at Disney, a flexible and dynamic system is needed. Like it or not, only buses can provide that needed flexibility. Disney property is just not laid out to handle a fixed guideway system. You'd have to transfer (possibly more than once) to get where you need to go, and even then, there would be multiple stops. Ultimately, it would be a hassle, and take much longer. Where's the magic in that?

So... let's take a look at a few common misconceptions.

Monorails hold more people than buses.
Well, per unit, perhaps. However, when you take a look at the operation at say, the Magic Kingdom... during a park exit, you have one Express train coming into the station every 4 minutes. That train can hold about 250-300 people, depending on who is working the station, and the number of bulky strollers (True, the "crush" capacity is 360, but you will never get that many people on board).

The bus depot however, has 18 bus stops. Buses move very quickly in and out of that depot during the park exit. On average, you'll have a bus coming in every 30 seconds during an exit. So, during that same 4 minute period, you'll have 8 buses. Each bus can handle 70 guests (the low-floors can handle up to 90, but like the monorail, you'll never get that many). So together, the buses will handle almost double what the monorail can handle. Plus, they can always add more buses. In fact, when the monorail reaches capacity, it's the buses that end up helping them out. (You can only add so many trains before it actually starts to hinder performance.)

The cost of the monorail will eventually pay for itself
(Before I get into this... let's not forget that transportation is a non-revenue generating part of Walt Disney World)
As mentioned above, the initial cost of building or expanding a monorail system is astronomical. I believe Vegas (which runs essentially a newer version of the Disney trains) ran into $88m per mile, $17m per 4-car train, plus station costs. I can also tell you maintenance costs for those trains is also quite expensive. And something tells me the electric costs are not cheap either. (I will say, it's a shame they don't have onboard batteries... they could really reduce energy consumption by harnessing the energy created by the dynamic braking system, similar to how a hybrid car works)

On the flip side, you could purchase 90 buses for the cost of one six car monorail train. The roads are already in place. Maintenance is fairly simple in comparison. And today's buses get decent mileage compared to buses just 10-15 years ago, further reducing thier operating costs. Buses also have a very long life span... The oldest one currently in daily service is nearly 30 years old, and has probably close to 2.5-3 million miles on her odometer.

Monorails are so convenient!
As mentioned above, monorails are fixed into where they go. No changing that. So you basically have two options when designing a route for it to travel. Multiple lines with multiple switch points... or a single line with many stops.

Here's a hint about the average Disney guest. They want to get from Point A to Point B, directly and non-stop. No transfers. In fact, because the average guest does not come from a public transit type area, the concept of transfers baffles many people. Going from MK to Epcot requires a transfer. To us, it sounds easy as pie. But people do not like it. When given the choice of a transfer, or a few extra stops, people generally prefer the few stops. There are actually people who would rather have a direct bus from GF to Epcot, rather than switch monorails at the TTC.

A bus on the other hand requires no transfers to get to the major destinations. It's direct, and for some, non-stop. In addition, the buses can go off route if need be. They can also go where they are needed. It's not always possible to predict where guests will want to go and when. A flexible system can handle these unknowns with ease.

Let's not get into if a monorail has a technical difficulty. The whole line is shut down. With buses, the only one affected is the bus with the issue. And even then, a replacement bus can be dispatched to take care of the situation.


So at any rate...

The bottom line though is that while the monorail certainly has that cool factor, it's the buses that are truly the workhorse. People come to WDW for the parks. It only makes sense to get them there as efficiently as possible, so that they may enjoy the parks.

Well now... I stopped by to give you my two cents and I ended up with $1.54's worth. Oh well. :)

WOW, I 'm Impressed!
 
Is, always has been, always will be, a Disney park. Conceived by Disney, built by Disney, owned by Disney, operated by Disney...

I never said that DHS wasn't a Disney park. What I said is that it was not originally part of Disney World. It and Disney World were seperate places and promoted as two seperate places for you to visit. I am sorry this issue as gotten a lot of people upset. That was not my intention.

****************

As for the point of the Monorail being too slow to cover all 4 (5 if you include DTD) parks because it only goes 45 mph, well that is only partially correct. Yes at the Park the Monorails only go that speed, but that is set by Disney for various reasons. The current cars themselves are designed to go much faster by factory specs (up to 100mph if I read correctly). If Disney built a new loop, they could build one that went faster than 45mph if they wanted to.

It appears that most on here view the Monorail as a waist of good money for Disney. I do not view it that way. I asked an simple question because I didn't know the answer, and I appear to have gotten some good answers along with a few attacks.

I am sorry if I offended anyway by saying that I thought Walt would have wanted a Monorail going to all the parks. I knew he was big into trains and really pushed the monorail when he discovered its future potential. It was because of him that they became such a part of the parks in the first place. In Walt Disney World he did not put in the Monorail as an amusement park ride, but as transportation from the resorts to the park. Apparently however, I offended some people by talking about Walt. I am sorry this offended people.
 
I never said that DHS wasn't a Disney park. What I said is that it was not originally part of Disney World. It and Disney World were seperate places and promoted as two seperate places for you to visit. I am sorry this issue as gotten a lot of people upset. That was not my intention.

****************

As for the point of the Monorail being too slow to cover all 4 (5 if you include DTD) parks because it only goes 45 mph, well that is only partially correct. Yes at the Park the Monorails only go that speed, but that is set by Disney for various reasons. The current cars themselves are designed to go much faster by factory specs (up to 100mph if I read correctly). If Disney built a new loop, they could build one that went faster than 45mph if they wanted to.

It appears that most on here view the Monorail as a waist of good money for Disney. I do not view it that way. I asked an simple question because I didn't know the answer, and I appear to have gotten some good answers along with a few attacks.

I am sorry if I offended anyway by saying that I thought Walt would have wanted a Monorail going to all the parks. I knew he was big into trains and really pushed the monorail when he discovered its future potential. It was because of him that they became such a part of the parks in the first place. In Walt Disney World he did not put in the Monorail as an amusement park ride, but as transportation from the resorts to the park. Apparently however, I offended some people by talking about Walt. I am sorry this offended people.

Disney World is NOT separate places to visit. The name Disney World encompasses ALL of the parks, resorts and other recreation areas. Or are you one of those people who thinks the Magic Kingdom is Disney World and the other parks not a part of it?

To your second point...Walt was all about making money. To him it was all about minimizing costs and making a profit. Expanding the monorail does not make money. And just because a monorail is built to go 100 MPH does not mean it is safe to do so.

Also I saw no attacks. Just simple no nonsense responses. Remember there is no pixie dust on the Transportation Board. So don't expect any.
 
I never said that DHS wasn't a Disney park. What I said is that it was not originally part of Disney World. It and Disney World were seperate places and promoted as two seperate places for you to visit. I am sorry this issue as gotten a lot of people upset. That was not my intention.

MGM was always part of Disney world. From the day it was built.
 

The real reason that it doesnt go to all the parks is, PIG FLU. They just dont want it to spread that quick there.
 
I was going to say, "Well perhaps not zero revenue ... " but thought better about it: I think it is possible that there aren't a significant number of people who would visit a significant amount of times more often, or spend a significant amount of money extra, exclusively based on the monorail reaching more of the theme parks. This is mostly a fan concern, and fans are mostly either intending to visit regardless, or simply using the absence of the monorail at two of the theme parks as a rationalization for their (rational and personal) decision to curtail their spending based on personal factors (typically, over-saturation). While there surely are fans who do care, and will have their contribution to revenues affected by this, the calculation would probably never reach break-even -- I wouldn't be surprised if that contribution to revenues never even comes close to the additional operating costs of running a monorail instead of business (think about why they run busses from MK to MK resorts longer, each evening, than they run the monorail), much less ever start to pay back the development and construction costs of new monorail track and new monorail trains.
Reality is such a downer, sometimes. :rotfl:

This reminds me of Deep Thoughts with Jack Handy.

Using as many words a possible to make a simple point....
 
/
I never said that DHS wasn't a Disney park. What I said is that it was not originally part of Disney World. It and Disney World were seperate places and promoted as two seperate places for you to visit. I am sorry this issue as gotten a lot of people upset. That was not my intention.

****************

As for the point of the Monorail being too slow to cover all 4 (5 if you include DTD) parks because it only goes 45 mph, well that is only partially correct. Yes at the Park the Monorails only go that speed, but that is set by Disney for various reasons. The current cars themselves are designed to go much faster by factory specs (up to 100mph if I read correctly). If Disney built a new loop, they could build one that went faster than 45mph if they wanted to.

It appears that most on here view the Monorail as a waist of good money for Disney. I do not view it that way. I asked an simple question because I didn't know the answer, and I appear to have gotten some good answers along with a few attacks.

I am sorry if I offended anyway by saying that I thought Walt would have wanted a Monorail going to all the parks. I knew he was big into trains and really pushed the monorail when he discovered its future potential. It was because of him that they became such a part of the parks in the first place. In Walt Disney World he did not put in the Monorail as an amusement park ride, but as transportation from the resorts to the park. Apparently however, I offended some people by talking about Walt. I am sorry this offended people.


You're wrong here. The studios has always been a part of WDW. WDW is all the parks, water parks, DTD, Boardwalk, etc.
 
You're wrong here. The studios has always been a part of WDW. WDW is all the parks, water parks, DTD, Boardwalk, etc.

In fact, I think Studios grew out of a movie-themed land idea for Epcot in the early days of planning - they realized it was enough for a 3rd gate. (I think that's what Marty Skylar said on a show...one of those Discovery Channel or History Channel shows, can't remember which channel. :))
 
This reminds me of the time I took a bus at DTD and 3 couples in their 60's got on the bus and said they wanted to go to Disney World and the bus driver said you are in Disney World,this conversation went on back and forth for like 2 minutes until he figured out they meant Magic Kingdom.

I don't understand what you mean by Disney Hollywood Studios was separate from Disney World,Disney's Hollywood Studios/MGM was the 3rd theme park opening in Disney World in 1989,maybe you're confusing it with Universal Studios which opened in 1990,cause I have seen people in MGM/DHS asking where the Jaws attraction is at and I'd tell them about 10 miles east of here.
 
teachallday said:
I never said that DHS wasn't a Disney park. What I said is that it was not originally part of Disney World. It and Disney World were seperate places and promoted as two seperate places for you to visit. I am sorry this issue as gotten a lot of people upset. That was not my intention.
"The movies theme park" was NEVER NOT a part of Walt Disney World. PLEASE go back and read all the responses to your original statement. MGM Studios, renamed Disney/MGM Studios, and now Disney's Hollywood Studios, was always part of Walt Disney World. It was conceived by the Disney company, it was designed by Disney, it was Imagineered by Disney, it was built by Disney, it was opened by Disney, it was, and continues to be owned and operated by Disney as part of The Walt Disney World Resort just as it has from the moment it opened.

We do not know where you got your information, but might you perhaps consider that when SO many responses refute a statement, that original statement just might not be true?
 
The real reason that it doesnt go to all the parks is, PIG FLU. They just dont want it to spread that quick there.
OMG! I know Walt Disney was prescient, but I didn't realize he could tell THIS was coming, almost forty years after the Magic Kingdom opened!!!!!!!! :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

eta: You're lucky I wasn't drinking when I read your post, JPTexan! ;) Mighta been 'new keyboard' time.
 
I never said that DHS wasn't a Disney park. What I said is that it was not originally part of Disney World. It and Disney World were seperate places and promoted as two seperate places for you to visit. I am sorry this issue as gotten a lot of people upset. That was not my intention.

****************

As for the point of the Monorail being too slow to cover all 4 (5 if you include DTD) parks because it only goes 45 mph, well that is only partially correct. Yes at the Park the Monorails only go that speed, but that is set by Disney for various reasons. The current cars themselves are designed to go much faster by factory specs (up to 100mph if I read correctly). If Disney built a new loop, they could build one that went faster than 45mph if they wanted to.

It appears that most on here view the Monorail as a waist of good money for Disney. I do not view it that way. I asked an simple question because I didn't know the answer, and I appear to have gotten some good answers along with a few attacks.

I am sorry if I offended anyway by saying that I thought Walt would have wanted a Monorail going to all the parks. I knew he was big into trains and really pushed the monorail when he discovered its future potential. It was because of him that they became such a part of the parks in the first place. In Walt Disney World he did not put in the Monorail as an amusement park ride, but as transportation from the resorts to the park. Apparently however, I offended some people by talking about Walt. I am sorry this offended people.

1) Walt Disney World is the entire property... The Magic Kingdom, EPCOT, DHS and DAK, all the water parks, hotel, etc... THAT is Walt Disney World.

The MAGIC KINGDOM is erroneously called WDW by people (My dad does this and drives me up a wall)... it was NEVER called that by Disney.

2) Walt designed parts of Disney World... but not to the level you are talking about... he died while it was still in the early planning stages... otherwise EPCOT would have been a whole heck of alot different had he lived.

3) I think most of us WOULD LOVE the monorail to run all over property... we also know it will never happen because of the money and some of the ecological concerns too... remember WDW is built on swampland and marshes, etc.
 
"The movies theme park" was NEVER NOT a part of Walt Disney World. PLEASE go back and read all the responses to your original statement. MGM Studios, renamed Disney/MGM Studios, and now Disney's Hollywood Studios, was always part of Walt Disney World. It was conceived by the Disney company, it was designed by Disney, it was Imagineered by Disney, it was built by Disney, it was opened by Disney, it was, and continues to be owned and operated by Disney as part of The Walt Disney World Resort just as it has from the moment it opened.

We do not know where you got your information, but might you perhaps consider that when SO many responses refute a statement, that original statement just might not be true?

She's confusing the Magic Kingdom with Walt Disney World... some people, especially older ones in my experience who were around when there was just one gate, do this. My dad does... as a former College Program CM, it drives me up a wall.
 
3) I think most of us WOULD LOVE the monorail to run all over property... we also know it will never happen because of the money and some of the ecological concerns too... remember WDW is built on swampland and marshes, etc.

I am not so sure that you can call on the ecological concerns. Isn't all of the parks in swamp area that has been converted?
 
In fact, I think Studios grew out of a movie-themed land idea for Epcot in the early days of planning - they realized it was enough for a 3rd gate. (I think that's what Marty Skylar said on a show...one of those Discovery Channel or History Channel shows, can't remember which channel. :))

You are correct... this info has also been in a bunch of papers with the 20th anniversary of DHS coming up.
 
I never said that DHS wasn't a Disney park. What I said is that it was not originally part of Disney World. It and Disney World were seperate places and promoted as two seperate places for you to visit. I am sorry this issue as gotten a lot of people upset. That was not my intention.

****************



It appears that the analysis that the OP is confusing The Magic Kingdom with Walt Disney World is correct, although it doesn't explain the original comment about Animal Kingdom.

I hate to pile on, but I am just so curious as to the real reason the OP thought that Disney/MGM Studios were not part of The Walt Disney World Resort....

I have this picture in my head, for some reason, of trucks with WIDE LOAD on them heading down I-4 from the Universal area with a theme park on top of them....
 
I can't even conceive of what ticket and hotel prices would be if Disney spent the $88M a mile (not even including the cost of the trains and maintenance) to expand the monorail :scared1:
 
MGM Studios, renamed Disney/MGM Studios, and now Disney's Hollywood Studios, was always part of Walt Disney World.
The original name was Disney-MGM Studios (not just MGM Studios).

Since January 6, 2008, the name has been Disney's Hollywood Studios.
 





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