Why do the changing tip policies . . .

[disneywonderfun]

. . . all seem to point to one thing, Disney is trying to cut their fixed costs as much as possible.

1) The new auto-tip policy - presumably it will likely increase the amount each tipped crew member receives since it seems less likely they will get "stiffed" by a guest when the tip system is already built-in. I guess I just wonder if Disney pursued the policy as a mechanism to even further lower the salary they offer tipped crew members (i.e. "we are lowering your salary from $50 to $20 a month but our internal research shows that you will likely garner an extra $200 a month from tips based on the experience of the Magic")

2) The concierge tip - in what used to be a non tipped position, Disney started giving concierge guests an envelope for them as well a couple years ago. I have heard (presuming true) that Disney decreased the compensation they provided to the concierge staff when they instituted the tip envelopes.

3) The new official blurb noted on this board that Palo and Remy now include wording that additional tips are recommended for great service. Again, I question if Disney lowered the salary of the Palo and Remy staff by saying to those crew members that they will make more through the extra tips than they were before.

I hate to sound like a skeptic, but it just seems like all these moves go in only one direction, the guest has a greater financial burden to bare as Disney cuts expenses. I certainly will continue to practice my usual tipping policy (i.e. more for my stateroom crew member than recommended), however, just think HOW AWESOME IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IF DISNEY WENT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION! Big announcement by Disney stating all tips are now included in your fare!!!! People would be having parties before their cruises to celebrate.

I just hate to feel that I am squeezed at every corner. No, Disney is not there yet, but will tip envelopes for the kids club crew members be far off? If the current trends continue, I guess I should just plan for another few bucks on our next Disney cruise in 2013. I just worry that the magical experiences we have had will be clouded in the future by all of the tips, surcharges, etc. that Disney feels compelled to include.

Any opinions?

DWF

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

. . . all seem to point to one thing, Disney is trying to cut their fixed costs as much as possible.

1) The new auto-tip policy - presumably it will likely increase the amount each tipped crew member receives since it seems less likely they will get "stiffed" by a guest when the tip system is already built-in. I guess I just wonder if Disney pursued the policy as a mechanism to even further lower the salary they offer tipped crew members (i.e. "we are lowering your salary from $50 to $20 a month but our internal research shows that you will likely garner an extra $200 a month from tips based on the experience of the Magic")

Even if it is DCL's intention to reduce the salary of the MDR and Stateroom Host/ess, if they do receive more tip's even if DCL reduce their salary to zero, then it still kind of works for the CM's.

2) The concierge tip - in what used to be a non tipped position, Disney started giving concierge guests an envelope for them as well a couple years ago. I have heard (presuming true) that Disney decreased the compensation they provided to the concierge staff when they instituted the tip envelopes.

3) The new official blurb noted on this board that Palo and Remy now include wording that additional tips are recommended for great service. Again, I question if Disney lowered the salary of the Palo and Remy staff by saying to those crew members that they will make more through the extra tips than they were before.

Well as of now, the DCL website still states that Gratuities are included for Palo. No mention of Remy.
Who know's if that may change.

I hate to sound like a skeptic, but it just seems like all these moves go in only one direction, the guest has a greater financial burden to bare as Disney cuts expenses. I certainly will continue to practice my usual tipping policy (i.e. more for my stateroom crew member than recommended), however, just think HOW AWESOME IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IF DISNEY WENT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION! Big announcement by Disney stating all tips are now included in your fare!!!! People would be having parties before their cruises to celebrate.

There is no way DCL are going to take on your suggested tip amounts without increasing your cruise fare.

I just hate to feel that I am squeezed at every corner. No, Disney is not there yet, but will tip envelopes for the kids club crew members be far off? If the current trends continue, I guess I should just plan for another few bucks on our next Disney cruise in 2013. I just worry that the magical experiences we have had will be clouded in the future by all of the tips, surcharges, etc. that Disney feels compelled to include.

I wouldn't feel squeezed by the Auto Grat policy. It's a just a easier way for the majority of Guests to deal with tipping and removes the long lines at GS on the last night.
If Palo and Remy do introduce suggested tips then yes, I would think that was putting a financial burden on the Guest, and unacceptable.

Any opinions?

DWF

JMO in RED

Ex Techie

 

[jdb in AZ]

I thought the $20 we're charged at Palo is a gratuity. Or does that go in DCL's pocket?

 

[sissy_ib]

I thought the $20 we're charged at Palo is a gratuity. Or does that go in DCL's pocket?

They used to say the $20 included a gratuity. Now they will say something like "it is traditional to leave an additional gratuity".

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I thought the $20 we're charged at Palo is a gratuity. Or does that go in DCL's pocket?

A (small) percentage of the $20 is gratuties. I've never seen a specific number as to what that percentage is. Guests have been encouraged to tip "additional" if they feel the service warrants it.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

It's listed as An additional charge is required to dine at Palo:
Dinner: $20 dining charge, per person
Brunch: $20 dining charge, per person

It may well go into DCL's pocket for the additional food and labor costs (i.e if the servers are paid a decent salary.

Ex Techie

 

[kcashner]

The exact amounts I've seen are ancient--from when the Palo charge was $15. At that point, the staff got under $5 of the amount as a gratuity, the rest went to DCL.

Yes, it states that the Palo upcharge includes gratuity but the new literature states that many people opt to leave an additional gratuity.

As to whether the standard gratuity is automatically added to your account or not--unless you were planning to stiff your crew, it really doesn't matter what the mechanics are. You are still totally in control--you can go to GS and increase or decrease the tips as you see fit.

 

[Dizzyworld]

I wish DCL would just be clear what the charge for Palo and Remy is for and if tips are included or not? It is so unclear and hard to figure out what the appropriate amount for tipping should be in those places. And if tips are not included then how much do you base the tip? $20 in Palo and $75 in Remy. I just feel like I am really taking a wild guess on how much to tip and hope I am giving enough to our servers. I have never gotten a clear answer from DCL on this issue.

However, I do remember when the Dream started sailing, posted on the DCL website for a brief time was that for Remy the $75 charge did not include tips. I wasn't able to find that statement after a few months.

 

[disneywonderfun]

JMO in RED

Ex Techie

I agree with you that it is probably better for the tipped crew to have the auto-tip in place. So, in itself, I do not think that is bad, simply that I suspect Disney could use it as an excuse to cut their salary expenses further like they did with the concierge staff.

I do take issue perhaps with the argument that Disney would have to increase fares if they included the tips in the fare itself. I am not sure what your experience has been, but we have been on cruises by Disney in 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012 with an additional one planned in 2013. Every year, the fares have gone up at a rate much in excess of inflation. Also, as people have mentioned over and over, Disney cruises are no bargain compared to other cruiselines. Obviously, we all have our own reasons for sailing Disney, however, I hold to my argument that Disney could act more like a premium cruiseline by including all gratuities without changing their fairly high cruise pricing structure that is already in place.

Obviously, one of the problems in a capitalistic society and the business world is that you have to keep showing profit growth over time. If Disney is profiting $300 (let's just say) per guest on a Disney cruise, next year they need to make $320 per guest or somebody will lose their job. It is not enough to simply make a fair profit. That profit must grow over time or "heads will roll". So, I do not have much patience for what Disney is pursuing right now.

DWF

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

With oil prices rising the way they have been (the Magic used to do 52' to the gallon ), and with that increase in oil, therefore food costs, crew transportation, most probably port docking charges, the increase in shoreside CM's to deal with the hiring of new CM's, building and commissioning of the new ships, maybe even helping with paying for the increase in the cost of building the new ships - the $-Euro conversion rate, increasing costs maintaining the Classic ships.

I agree with you that including the tips eliminates a lot of hassle from the Guest and is an upfront cost included already. I just don't see them including it without increasing their cruise fare anytime soon as they will have to take the hit on that, and the shareholders would be less than impressed! lol!

Ex Techie

 

[mkmommy]

How is this different from any other business? If I own a business and my costs go up 10% I don't want my bottom line to suffer so I either raise prices or find a way to lower my expenses.

I am sure staff retention is a big challenge, with all the new massive ships, and being able to help you staff get a better wage will help DCL keep staff. I sailed once on RCL and in talking to an officer I found out the DCL staff are pursued by other cruise lines as their training is so good.

 

[carpenta]

Tipping is basically a North American tradition. When DCL sails say in Europe tipping is not known by a large number of passengers. Many tips are overlooked just by the fact that tips are not something that the people do in everyday life. Many crew members were being forgotten about and thus not earning as much per cruise as say a Caribbean cruise. More and more of the lines are going to auto tips just for the exposure to all the international sailings AND customers that sail with them. Second the price is more expensive than other lines because of economy of scale when it comes to product purchase. When you prebuy fuel and provisions you will recieve a better base price if you plan to stock 30 ships as opposed to 4. For what the crew earns for the service they supply I for one are always happy to tip and then some for the great service I receive.

 

[disneywonderfun]

How is this different from any other business? If I own a business and my costs go up 10% I don't want my bottom line to suffer so I either raise prices or find a way to lower my expenses.

I am sure staff retention is a big challenge, with all the new massive ships, and being able to help you staff get a better wage will help DCL keep staff. I sailed once on RCL and in talking to an officer I found out the DCL staff are pursued by other cruise lines as their training is so good.

Ah, but if you own your business and make Z dollars a year profit, you do not necessarily have to make 1.06 x Z next year to keep your job. What I am saying is that business practices virtually require increases in PROFITS (not just gross receipts which might lag inflation) or the owners will change their business practices. So, again, it is not enough for Disney to make a certain amount a year from DCL, they must profit more each year or their stock will start to slide. My point, of course, is that I suspect all these adjustments have very little to do with enhancing the travel experience of its guests and have much more to do with DCL improving their bottom line. DCL is not Carnival Cruises yet in some ways, it seems they are headed in that direction. Will they go back to charging us $50 for a soda fountain mug for the duration of the cruise? Maybe they should charge for food on CC. I am sure most people would still pay the extra surcharge and comment on this board how poor, poor Disney has so many expenses to bring us food to CC that they should charge for it. I simply wish DCL tried to market themselves as a little more refined of a cruiseline. In fact, it is the same process that brought us the endless "Value Resorts" of Disney World. A few are fine, but when 70% of your beds are in the "Value Resorts", the overcrowded, painful experience we face today at Disney World simply loses its appeal.

Sorry for the long rant,

DWF

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

I wasn't saying poor poor DCL, just saying that their costs have increased as have all of ours, food, fuel etc, and therefore they are not going to swallow that extra cost but pass it on.

And your right that the Disney Corp needs to keep it's shareholders happy by increasing the $/Guest revenue each year as do every other shareholding organization.

Ex Techie

 

[Floridagram]

. . . all seem to point to one thing, Disney is trying to cut their fixed costs as much as possible.

1) The new auto-tip policy - presumably it will likely increase the amount each tipped crew member receives since it seems less likely they will get "stiffed" by a guest when the tip system is already built-in. I guess I just wonder if Disney pursued the policy as a mechanism to even further lower the salary they offer tipped crew members (i.e. "we are lowering your salary from $50 to $20 a month but our internal research shows that you will likely garner an extra $200 a month from tips based on the experience of the Magic")

2) The concierge tip - in what used to be a non tipped position, Disney started giving concierge guests an envelope for them as well a couple years ago. I have heard (presuming true) that Disney decreased the compensation they provided to the concierge staff when they instituted the tip envelopes.

3) The new official blurb noted on this board that Palo and Remy now include wording that additional tips are recommended for great service. Again, I question if Disney lowered the salary of the Palo and Remy staff by saying to those crew members that they will make more through the extra tips than they were before.

I hate to sound like a skeptic, but it just seems like all these moves go in only one direction, the guest has a greater financial burden to bare as Disney cuts expenses. I certainly will continue to practice my usual tipping policy (i.e. more for my stateroom crew member than recommended), however, just think HOW AWESOME IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IF DISNEY WENT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION! Big announcement by Disney stating all tips are now included in your fare!!!! People would be having parties before their cruises to celebrate.

I just hate to feel that I am squeezed at every corner. No, Disney is not there yet, but will tip envelopes for the kids club crew members be far off? If the current trends continue, I guess I should just plan for another few bucks on our next Disney cruise in 2013. I just worry that the magical experiences we have had will be clouded in the future by all of the tips, surcharges, etc. that Disney feels compelled to include.

Any opinions?

DWF

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I said something to this effect on another post, you just said it much more eloquently!

I realize that Disney is a corporation that has to make profits and THEY DO. I wonder if the time will come that they price themselves out of the market. I think as consumers there are times when we should say enough is enough.

For now, I will enjoy my Fantasy cruise in 2 weeks, knowing that it may be my last.

 

[justmestace]

Ah, but if you own your business and make Z dollars a year profit, you do not necessarily have to make 1.06 x Z next year to keep your job. What I am saying is that business practices virtually require increases in PROFITS (not just gross receipts which might lag inflation) or the owners will change their business practices. So, again, it is not enough for Disney to make a certain amount a year from DCL, they must profit more each year or their stock will start to slide. My point, of course, is that I suspect all these adjustments have very little to do with enhancing the travel experience of its guests and have much more to do with DCL improving their bottom line. DCL is not Carnival Cruises yet in some ways, it seems they are headed in that direction. Will they go back to charging us $50 for a soda fountain mug for the duration of the cruise? Maybe they should charge for food on CC. I am sure most people would still pay the extra surcharge and comment on this board how poor, poor Disney has so many expenses to bring us food to CC that they should charge for it. I simply wish DCL tried to market themselves as a little more refined of a cruiseline. In fact, it is the same process that brought us the endless "Value Resorts" of Disney World. A few are fine, but when 70% of your beds are in the "Value Resorts", the overcrowded, painful experience we face today at Disney World simply loses its appeal.

Sorry for the long rant,

DWF

You DO have to make more, if your supplies go up in cost, and if you want to continue to pay your employees a good enough wage to keep them, rather than having to train new people every year.
You have to look at making enough money to cover your overhead and still make a profit to live off of.

What is the object of having a business, if not to make money? Some, very few, people are lucky enough to have a job that they truly, honestly love. Everyone else works to pay the bills.

Disney Cruise Line DOES market itself as a "more refined" cruise line. Ask anyone on this Board, and they'll tell you how much better it is (in their opinion) than, as you mentioned for example, Carnival.

As long as people are still willing to pay, DCL will keep doing what they're doing. And the line is LONG....plenty of people willing to dish it out to cruise on DCL.
If you're unhappy with it, there are other cruise lines.

The automatic gratuity is an industry standard, and Disney is just now meeting the standard, and doing what the others do. Even if they did bring back the soda card, or the refillable drink mug, no one is forced to purchase one. Just as you're not forced to go to the Value Resorts. It's a choice. Some people choose to make it their choice, others don't.
There's something out there for everyone.

 

[justmestace]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I said something to this effect on another post, you just said it much more eloquently!

I realize that Disney is a corporation that has to make profits and THEY DO. I wonder if the time will come that they price themselves out of the market. I think as consumers there are times when we should say enough is enough.

For now, I will enjoy my Fantasy cruise in 2 weeks, knowing that it may be my last.

I actually think that as consumers, we're pretty lucky to be able to cruise at all.

If people are going to finally say "enough is enough" then we should start with our government and the IRS.

 

[FJS961]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I said something to this effect on another post, you just said it much more eloquently!

I realize that Disney is a corporation that has to make profits and THEY DO. I wonder if the time will come that they price themselves out of the market. I think as consumers there are times when we should say enough is enough.

For now, I will enjoy my Fantasy cruise in 2 weeks, knowing that it may be my last.

I agree. We have certainly enjoyed our DCL cruises so far but in our case, they are pricing themselves out of my market. We sail concierge in suites and prices have been rising significantly. I will be trying Celebrity in their top suites at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of comparable T or R suites. Additionally, I'll get to visit DIFFERENT ports.

 

[DisneyDee27]

You're going to tip. It's one less thing you have to worry about once you're on board. If you want to change the amounts you can.
Dee

 

[disneywonderfun]

You DO have to make more, if your supplies go up in cost, and if you want to continue to pay your employees a good enough wage to keep them, rather than having to train new people every year.
You have to look at making enough money to cover your overhead and still make a profit to live off of.

What is the object of having a business, if not to make money? Some, very few, people are lucky enough to have a job that they truly, honestly love. Everyone else works to pay the bills.

Disney Cruise Line DOES market itself as a "more refined" cruise line. Ask anyone on this Board, and they'll tell you how much better it is (in their opinion) than, as you mentioned for example, Carnival.

As long as people are still willing to pay, DCL will keep doing what they're doing. And the line is LONG....plenty of people willing to dish it out to cruise on DCL.
If you're unhappy with it, there are other cruise lines.

The automatic gratuity is an industry standard, and Disney is just now meeting the standard, and doing what the others do. Even if they did bring back the soda card, or the refillable drink mug, no one is forced to purchase one. Just as you're not forced to go to the Value Resorts. It's a choice. Some people choose to make it their choice, others don't.
There's something out there for everyone.

Then again, I have already booked and paid for a cruise in 2013. Disney gets to use my money for various investments in the company far in advance of providing me with any service. Yet, they are finding ways to increase my out-of-pocket expenses in excess of my original budget. So, it is not really practical to say that I can "make a choice" at this point especially since we are staying is a suite with a nonrefundable deposit. With that being said, I have no issue with paying more, my issue is with the flavor of the experience. The whole process just is a bit unseemly to me.

Again, I do not begrudge Disney from trying to make money, but you cannot honestly tell me that you think these tip changes enhance the experience of the guests. It is simply a process for them to be more profitable.

As a business owner as well, we also have increasing expenses annually (i.e. malpractice premiums, insurance plan premiums, etc.). However, I do not feel that I personally have to increase my annual level of total compensation at the expense of others that work for me. Disney, however, does have to make more PROFIT every year to satisfy shareholders and, therefore, has to squeeze even more money out of each passenger beyond any increases in their expenses.

DWF