Why did PO & DL merge?

[lenshanem]

Prejudice can run just as strong in the north as it does in the south. I think southerns even today still get an unfair image put upon them. People like to point out the few bad apples here, but don't mention them elsewhere.
History is history, it is like people want to erase it from our books. I think that is dangerous.
I personally liked the Dixie Landings theming. Was there reference to war? Was there reference to slavery? No....
I think this type of PCness will ruin our future. Alot can be learned from our history.
I wonder if there were people that actually complained about the Dixie Landings theming. If so, I'd be very surprised. Guess we'll never see Song of the South released, either.

 

[Chuck S]

Originally posted by lenshanem

I wonder if there were people that actually complained about the Dixie Landings theming. If so, I'd be very surprised.

Why would you be surprised? People complain if they don't get towel animals, "supposed" lack of themeing at OKW, pool slides (or lack there of), and not getting every single one of their 25 room requests met. Why would you find it suprising that someone may have found the overall "Dixie Landings" themeing personally "offensive" enough to complain about?

 

[lenshanem]

Wow, Chuck. You're really trying to debate with me today!
First on the DVC board regarding Epcot, now here. Geez, you're going to give me a complex!

Course, my six year old's school got out for summer today and she has been home less than an hour and she is already bored so the debate will have to wait!

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by lenshanem
I wonder if there were people that actually complained about the Dixie Landings theming. If so, I'd be very surprised. Guess we'll never see Song of the South released, either.

I'd be surprised if WDW would go to all of the trouble to make the change if there WEREN'T a significant number of folks who complained.

 

[Chuck S]

LOL Shan, not a debate, I'm just surprised you find it unusual that people would have complained about the Dixie Landings name -- seeing as they complain about anything and everything else regarding Disney.

I'm going off line in a little while anyway...some friends want to see Shrek 2, and while this movie isn't on the top of my To Do list, we always have a good time.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by bigdisneydaddy
The sad part is that it proves just how succesful society has been at demonizing the deep south and the confederacy.

How long did states in the South battle to prevent any laws that would outlaw lynching? Not that long ago many Southern states and ONLY Southern states argued that this was NOT a matter for anyone but the states to decide on an individual basis--which they chose not to act on-by the way. Read Master of the Senate regarding the battle for Civil Rights Legislation in the 50's to actually learn something about how deeply racist and hateful the entire Southern blocks conducted themselves thru the years...the book is by no menas a diatribe against the South--just a carefully researched history of some of the most insidiouisly powerful bigots to ever hold office in this country.

What percentage of Mississippi voters voted against allowing different raced people to marry in an election held within the last few years? I believe it was around 40%--that is a huge minority that still thinks they have the right to impose their ignorance and stupidity on the freedom of fellow citizens based on race. This is right now--in the present time-- not some long ago myth of southern racism.... If there has been any historical baloney it is the nonsense about how the South was this genteel community that was just standing up for the principle of States' Rights in their rebellion against the Union. The States's Right that the Southern states and only the Southern states were so adamantly defending was the right to enslave a fellow human being if his skin was too dark...later the south and only the south fought fot the right for states to allow white citizens to lynch fellow human beings if their skin was too dark. The principle that the Southern states and only the Southern states have had a hard time with since 1776 is that there is a right greater than states rights--it is called human rights...and the better and sooner that Southerners own up to their long and storied history of racism and bigotry the sooner people will stop feeling the need to remind them of it.

Paul

 

[lenshanem]

Oh, great.
PKS44 has entered the discussion.
Time for me to leave my own thread...

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I stayed at Dixie Landings.. I enjoyed it immensely but I also found myself observing it for historical accuracy and having constant reminders about that era in American history and how I wouldn't have been able to stay at a resort of this sort, probably wouldn't have even been able to work certain jobs, etc etc etc. I did not complain about this I thought it was a poignant reminder of history...and actually gave credit to Disney for attempting it minus 2 points for trying to Disneyify the erea. Other people would have been unlikely to take it that way.

So I'm pretty sure the name was changed for PC-ness. Frankly I think that was a mistake but it was probably cheaper than changing the overall theming which is what I thought they should have done. All they needed to do was bring the resort up to 1930's feel...you keep all the quaintness but clearly lose the issues about slavery and carpetbagging (of course Jim Crow is still there but that applies to the Grand Floridian as well). Mainly it would be a change in the way you dress the staff plus a few props.

We still call it Dixie Landings for our own amusement.

PS. The food was great...reasonably authentic...I don't know if its still that way...I went the first year it opened.

 

[rwodonnell]

Honestly, this is sort of ridiculous. I mean, I stayed there and it never once occurred to me that the theming had some sort of racist overtones. And to suggest that the word "Dixie" (and "cotton"!) is now tainted as well is equally ridiculous. I had no idea why they changed the name until now.

The fact of the matter is, there are many mistakes in our past, and of course in our present and future as well. Should we remove the 50's from the Pop Century because schools (and more) were still segregated? Is the Animal Kingdom Lodge offensive because it symbolizes the imprisonment of animals? Should the underbelly of greed and corruption of the Boardwalks, where they practically steal your money, be glamorized? (Come to think of it, maybe that is appropriate - after all, Disney has perfected that!) In case it's not obvious, the increasing absurdity of those examples was an attempt at sarcasm.

Of course there were serious problems in the South, and still are, as PKS44 has pointed out. But to think there are not problems all over is naive, of course, including up here in the "bastion of enlightenment" (ha!)

I really don't see what removing the word "Dixie" and any reference to "cotton" really does anyway. The theming is basically the same otherwise, no?

 

[DisneyDude10171]

Originally posted by rwodonnell
Honestly, this is sort of ridiculous. I mean, I stayed there and it never once occurred to me that the theming had some sort of racist overtones. And to suggest that the word "Dixie" (and "cotton"!) is now tainted as well is equally ridiculous. I had no idea why they changed the name until now.

Personally, I was merely stating additional things which changed along with the resort name- I am not sure whether removing the references to cotton and dixie (which can both be interpreted as symbols of slavery) aided the problem, worsened it, or just had no effect on it.

But I can stay that having staying at the resort a few times, I was well aware of historical events associated with the theming and timeframe of the resort- of course, one can still pick up on these things today, even with the "new" name and adjustments- but none-the-less, there is something there. Calling it "racist overtones" might be a bit extreme, though.

As for your points about changing theming at other resorts- I am sure there are many people who agree with your assessments. However, what Dixie Landings had that Pop, AKL, and BW do not were the other factors previously mentioned in this thread such as the proximity and resemblence to PO, which would make for a sensible combining of the two resorts.

Disney would not likely have the motivation to alter any other resort's theming in order to make it more PC, because it would not carry other benefits like DL did.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Originally posted by rwodonnell
Honestly, this is sort of ridiculous. I mean, I stayed there and it never once occurred to me that the theming had some sort of racist overtones. And to suggest that the word "Dixie" (and "cotton"!) is now tainted as well is equally ridiculous. I had no idea why they changed the name until now.

Who said anything about racist? The choice for this theme is bound to bring a certain historically aware portion of the population up short. I think if Disney had worked just a little harder at it they could have embraced the problem in an award winning manner...ala Williamsburg.

Using ANY part of American history is going to be problematic... it is just a question of how aware will your clients be about the parts you use. For example how many people bother to think about the history backing up the Wilderness Lodge? Not many.

In the case of DL/PO I think Disney was just too lily-livered to tackle the PR side of the theme robustly. Which is just plain dumb...all over the south these types of issues are successfully embraced with tact and taste.

 

[manning]

Maybe we ought to complain about Enland in EPCOT. After all we had to fight them for our freedom. Gee.

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

Sad that such a wonderful innocent place like Dixie Landings had to become part of the never ending quest to find problems that dont exist.

 

[JudyS]

I just came across this thread. One things that hasn't been mentioned so far is that there are two different sections in "The Resort Fomerly Known as Dixie Landings." One of these sections is designed to look (from the exterior) like luxurious plantation mansions. The other section is designed to look like little cabins. This combination certainly triggers associations with slavery.

I stayed at Dixie Landings a few years ago, in the Alligator Bayou section, and though the resort was beautiful. But, I was really shocked by the theming. What *were* the Disney folks thinking when they put all these slavery images into a resort?

I'm glad Disney made changes (to the name and otherwise) to distance the resort from slavery imagery. And I'm white, by the way.

 

[sanapunk]

Originally posted by JudyS
I just came across this thread. One things that hasn't been mentioned so far is that there are two different sections in "The Resort Fomerly Known as Dixie Landings." One of these sections is designed to look (from the exterior) like luxurious plantation mansions. The other section is designed to look like little cabins. This combination certainly triggers associations with slavery.

I stayed at Dixie Landings a few years ago, in the Alligator Bayou section, and though the resort was beautiful. But, I was really shocked by the theming. What *were* the Disney folks thinking when they put all these slavery images into a resort?

I'm glad Disney made changes (to the name and otherwise) to distance the resort from slavery imagery. And I'm white, by the way.

The cabins could represent more than just "slave houses" though. A lot of people get the stereotypical image of either rich plantation houses or poor hicksville country "bumpkin" houses, both contain white people, as a stereotype for the south. So it goes both ways.

 

[DisneyDude10171]

I always understood it to show a transition from the urban to the rural. Start in PO(FQ) and you are in a "dense city" move along the Sassagoula until you hit the first Magnolia Bend Mansion - notice how it is a hybrid between PORS and FQ because it utilizes the same layout as a RS mansion but uses FQ building materials such as oxidized copper and more wrought iron. The next three mansions get gradually more simple and less ornate. Finally, we reach the relaxed Alligator Bayou buildings. I have never once thought of these as "slave quarters" nor has it ever "shocked!" me. It is simply meant to resemble rural south housing while providing guests with a new atmosphere at a slightly different room rate.

Alternatively, think of it in relation to modern society: POFQ = metro city, PORS Magnolia Bend = Suburbia, PORS Alligator Bayou = country.

Could you say that Alligator Bayou represents 'poor hicksville country "bumpkin" houses'? Maybe- but even that's an exageration.

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

Originally posted by JudyS
I just came across this thread. One things that hasn't been mentioned so far is that there are two different sections in "The Resort Fomerly Known as Dixie Landings." One of these sections is designed to look (from the exterior) like luxurious plantation mansions. The other section is designed to look like little cabins. This combination certainly triggers associations with slavery.

I stayed at Dixie Landings a few years ago, in the Alligator Bayou section, and though the resort was beautiful. But, I was really shocked by the theming. What *were* the Disney folks thinking when they put all these slavery images into a resort?

I'm glad Disney made changes (to the name and otherwise) to distance the resort from slavery imagery. And I'm white, by the way.

A perfect example of people drawing conclusions based on a social agenda. Dixie Landings resort no more represent slavery than any other building in any other city in this country.

 

[SlightlyGoofy]

I am too tired to get involved in a debate, I see all sides of every issue and confuse myself sometimes. LOL

Just a comment that POR used to be our very favorite resort. It had everything, sit down restaurant, food court, piano player in lobby at night, beautiful theming, fantastic pool, boat to Downtown, small grounds and great bus service etc. etc. I preferred it to many of the luxury resorts. Was worth every cent of the money. Since it has changed we stay at the ASp. We miss the beauty of walking the grounds in the cool of the evening after a full day at the parks. Will live on in our memory though.

SG/Linda

 

[Cris]

Originally posted by DisneyDude10171
I always understood it to show a transition from the urban to the rural. Start in PO(FQ) and you are in a "dense city" move along the Sassagoula until you hit the first Magnolia Bend Mansion - notice how it is a hybrid between PORS and FQ because it utilizes the same layout as a RS mansion but uses FQ building materials such as oxidized copper and more wrought iron. The next three mansions get gradually more simple and less ornate. Finally, we reach the relaxed Alligator Bayou buildings. I have never once thought of these as "slave quarters" nor has it ever "shocked!" me. It is simply meant to resemble rural south housing while providing guests with a new atmosphere at a slightly different room rate.

Alternatively, think of it in relation to modern society: POFQ = metro city, PORS Magnolia Bend = Suburbia, PORS Alligator Bayou = country.

Could you say that Alligator Bayou represents 'poor hicksville country "bumpkin" houses'? Maybe- but even that's an exageration.

It is nice that someone understands the theming.

 

[jajuan]

Slightly Goofy
Why don't you stay there any more? DL (POR) is still my favorite resort. The grounds are still the same...the rooms have been redone. I don't feel a difference. It has always been my favorite resort at Disney...they still have everything you mentioned in your post...piano player and all.