Why Cant They Just Leave DVCers Alone?

[MICKIMINI]

It sounds like this guy you would invite this guy to the lighthouse in August and let him sweat about his "investment" choices

I would have had him buying a contract in no time!! And he would have LOVED it!!

 

[Chuck S]

Yeah but who is the comeback directed toward??
This was a conversation the OP overheard between two non members.

Sometimes I think folks should not eves drop and just mind their own business.

Maybe, but if it weren't for eavesdropping on a conversation on the Epcot monorail line, we may not have purchased in 1992, because the sales team was, and still is, not aggresive at the in park kiosks, After hearing the conversation we stopped at a kiosk and arranged for a tour at Commodore House (original sales center at OKW)

 

[DonkeyHoTay]

I've been able to give all of my siblings, their kids, and my parents free stays they would never have been able to afford. Worth so much more to spend that time with people I love doing something nice for them.

This is how I measure my return on this “investment”.

In 2022, it happened at the Miller Road quiet pool at OKW. A woman asked the question and then I had everyone in the pool around me...LOL.

In 2024, it happened to me at the Vero Beach resort pool when the family next to us asked if we were DVC… 30 minutes later I was sharing my guide’s contact info. Of note is that I had urged them to seriously consider resale even though all my points are direct.

 

[BlueGreen5]

I feel this analysis is a bit skewed either by aggressive assumptions or historical data that can not be replicated for a buyer at today’s prices.

1) $9 per point annual dues. Does not include the impact of the initial upfront buy in or the lost annual interest on that initial capital outlay.

In your example of $30,000… I think most would feel a 4.5% return (10yr UST) is a reasonable baseline as there is no principal risk or investment skill required.

That is $1350 per year in ongoing costs (about $7pp) that need to be added to the depreciating initial investment of the $30,000 held to expiration. Let’s amortize that over 38 years and and make that $789 a year or about $4pp.

So, your total is really around $9+$7+$4=$20pp ish

2) Renting at $26pp. Maybe a spec rental for a hard to get room or resort. $18-20pp is more realistic for anyone who would be a frequent renter.

So, this is why many people say that owning is about break even vs renting.

Now, is there value in having complete control and flexibility of your vacation… the ability to keep at eye out for new resorts you have not stayed at before…. the mental health benefits of always having a vacation you can be planning for…. I believe so.

My point is not that DVC is not a good vacation program to buy into…. just that it is not a slam dunk investment equivalent to an 8% ROI. It’s a luxury purchase.

I agree that going on Disney Vacations is a luxury purchase. No doubt about it. You can debate with folks about whether such luxury purchase is a "good use" of their money, but that debate is never going to go anywhere. It's like debating with a corvette owner about why they would purchase such a limited use vehicle over a minivan or work truck.

My point was that if you've already emotionally committed to consistently making that luxury purchase, DVC can be a rational slam dunk as long as you do it right. So, it's really not a DVC versus non-DVC argument that most people want to have. It's a Disney versus non-Disney argument. And, like politics, you're never going to be able to change someone's set-in-stone views on it, so why try? I'll never understand people - like in OPs experience - who do try. But, I always try to reframe the DVC question in that way because I think it's the crux of what they're wanting to debate.

Your points are well-taken in some cases. I think my experience may just be different. In my case, I could sell my contract right now at a gain, so I expect to get most or all (or more) of my initial investment back because I won't hold my contract until expiration. So I don't amortize the cost of my points into my annual cost. But I get why others who have a different outlook would. I view my upfront investment as just lost opportunity cost right now, which, to your point, is probably somewhere in the $7 pp range, conservatively.

It's getting hard to find good rentals at $18 pp anymore (happy to take some VGC or VGF points off ANYONE'S hands at that price, haha). Most have moved to the $19-21 pp range even for SAPs. And that's through a direct rental, like the threads on this page, which most ordinary folks aren't aware of. Go onto the public Facebook sites (actually, don't, they'll frustrate the heck out of you because it seems like EVERYONE has a sob story about how heartbroken they are to have to sell their points, for the first time ever, for $26 pp -- I truly feel for those people, it must have really been devastating circumstances that led to them taking such a haircut). Or, even the site sponsor's and their competitor named Dave's pages -- rentals are at about $25-26 pp. And then renting has its own lost opportunity cost. For most private rentals, you have to lock up a few thousand dollars for up to 11 months if you want to do it right, so even the $18-20 pp private rental can't really be priced at face.

So yeah, maybe it's just my own situation that I'm speaking from, but, for us, DVC has been financially a very rational decision. I'm in finance, I wouldn't have bought it otherwise haha.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I agree that going on Disney Vacations is a luxury purchase. No doubt about it. You can debate with folks about whether such luxury purchase is a "good use" of their money, but that debate is never going to go anywhere. It's like debating with a corvette owner about why they would purchase such a limited use vehicle over a minivan or work truck.

My point was that if you've already emotionally committed to consistently making that luxury purchase, DVC can be a rational slam dunk as long as you do it right. So, it's really not a DVC versus non-DVC argument that most people want to have. It's a Disney versus non-Disney argument. And, like politics, you're never going to be able to change someone's set-in-stone views on it, so why try? I'll never understand people - like in OPs experience - who do try. But, I always try to reframe the DVC question in that way because I think it's the crux of what they're wanting to debate.

Your points are well-taken in some cases. I think my experience may just be different. In my case, I could sell my contract right now at a gain, so I expect to get most or all (or more) of my initial investment back because I won't hold my contract until expiration. So I don't amortize the cost of my points into my annual cost. But I get why others who have a different outlook would. I view my upfront investment as just lost opportunity cost right now, which, to your point, is probably somewhere in the $7 pp range, conservatively.

It's getting hard to find good rentals at $18 pp anymore (happy to take some VGC or VGF points off ANYONE'S hands at that price, haha). Most have moved to the $19-21 pp range even for SAPs. And that's through a direct rental, like the threads on this page, which most ordinary folks aren't aware of. Go onto the public Facebook sites (actually, don't, they'll frustrate the heck out of you because it seems like EVERYONE has a sob story about how heartbroken they are to have to sell their points, for the first time ever, for $26 pp -- I truly feel for those people, it must have really been devastating circumstances that led to them taking such a haircut). Or, even the site sponsor's and their competitor named Dave's pages -- rentals are at about $25-26 pp. And then renting has its own lost opportunity cost. For most private rentals, you have to lock up a few thousand dollars for up to 11 months if you want to do it right, so even the $18-20 pp private rental can't really be priced at face.

So yeah, maybe it's just my own situation that I'm speaking from, but, for us, DVC has been financially a very rational decision. I'm in finance, I wouldn't have bought it otherwise haha.

This post deserves a double emoji. A thumbs up and a laugh.

 

[robinb]

True. That too. Happy to be a direct member. But this guy didn't even do resale. When he mentioned he tries to visit every Christmas, I figured he was DVC ignorant, because if you're at GF resort yearly at cash prices, DVC might just make sense.

So, the man who was speaking was staying at the GF? All his "Investment-Bro" talk makes sense now as he probably has more money that he knows what to do with. Disney rarely offers discounts on Christmas Week. As a DVC member who travelled during Christmas/New Years for about 20 years, I was always shocked at how much the non-DVC resort guests were paying at BW and AK. For instance, holiday rates start at $1350 per night at the GF. So, a week would have set him back $10,632 with tax. Your dues for that week in a studio (278 points @ $7.93 per point) would have set you back $2,205. Same week, same resort and you saved $8,427 (or more!) over Mr. "Investment-Bro". At today's VGF resale rates, he would break even in just 5 years.

Is DVC the best "investment"? No, it's not. But I have to say that it is now the only reason I still go to WDW. I choose not to afford Disney resort rates even at a discount.

 

[MICKIMINI]

This is how I measure my return on this “investment”.



In 2024, it happened to me at the Vero Beach resort pool when the family next to us asked if we were DVC… 30 minutes later I was sharing my guide’s contact info. Of note is that I had urged them to seriously consider resale even though all my points are direct.

Back in the day, the referral was cash! I remember finding "it" in my DVC account online...imagine my surprise!

 

[zavandor]

Personally, I didn't purchase DVC to save any money at all. I'm spending more than ever before in Disney vacations (accommodation, travel, tickets, food...).
I purchased DVC because I wanted to stay in deluxe resorts for a price I was OK with*.
So financially it's a disaster, if you look just at my bank account, but it's still one of my best purchases ever.

* I bought resale in 2012 for $50 for points that are now grandfathered. I am not so sure I would buy at today prices, also with restrictions.

 

[Genie+]

I purchased DVC because I wanted to stay in deluxe resorts for a price I was OK with*.

Exactly.

 

[sethschroeder]

Time to do a quick run down for them. I view it as a challenge.

If they are clueless then its a way for them to save money. If they are a complete jerk then its a way to make them realize they are not so smart.

 

[bdrex28]

It doesn’t have anything to do with DVC. They put down others to make themselves feel superior. They never grew up beyond High School.

I don't know, I think that comment is just a reach personally.

I am a DVC owner, but.......15 years ago I thought it was stupid and a waste of money. But I didn't know about it truly and hadn't researched. I just knew that the thought of spending 30, 40, 50k + seemed crazy and there was no way I'd do that for a Disney vacation I may not go on again for a few years. But..LOL then we started coming every year and I learned more and more while booking direct on the website for rooms and we did the DVC tour on one of our trips, came really close to buying 200 Riviera pts but decided not to. Then we started renting DVC, and then I learned about resale (thank you Dis boards!) and we ended up buying a resale contract.

I think a lot of people are like I was, I thought there was no way we'd come as often as we have and I felt the buy in was just way to high to pay off for us. But the more I learned from others I realized it was a good buy for us. So, this person may in fact not be trying to "feel superior" they may just not know and be educated about it.

 

[Genie+]

I don't know, I think that comment is just a reach personally.

I am a DVC owner, but.......15 years ago I thought it was stupid and a waste of money. But I didn't know about it truly and hadn't researched. I just knew that the thought of spending 30, 40, 50k + seemed crazy and there was no way I'd do that for a Disney vacation I may not go on again for a few years. But..LOL then we started coming every year and I learned more and more while booking direct on the website for rooms and we did the DVC tour on one of our trips, came really close to buying 200 Riviera pts but decided not to. Then we started renting DVC, and then I learned about resale (thank you Dis boards!) and we ended up buying a resale contract.

I think a lot of people are like I was, I thought there was no way we'd come as often as we have and I felt the buy in was just way to high to pay off for us. But the more I learned from others I realized it was a good buy for us. So, this person may in fact not be trying to "feel superior" they may just not know and be educated about it.

This is a good point. They may have sounded like a blow hard but maybe their motivation was only to question if they were overlooking something.

Seems like everyone is DVC now… didn’t make financial sense to us… rather invest in actual real estate…

Just wondering out loud? Like it was a mystery from their perspective lol. What was he missing? Maybe he really did want to better understand the popularity, and provided his take for context.

 

[808blessing]

Came here to make the car analogy & saw it was mentioned. We don't generally evaluate one another's car choice as a financial investment although some may very well consider resale value when buying. And yes I do flex driving a 2008 car as my wise financial decision. That is the thing, these are financial decisions (not pure investments) that we enjoy in different ways. To each his own. Not going to convince people "how smart" it is for them to make a certain financial decision unless I have alllll the details and they are a family member or a paid client. We just don't know it all.

 

[davidhr]

So financially it's a disaster, if you look just at my bank account, but it's still one of my best purchases ever.

I was checking my general spend this year in Quicken Simplifi as I do at the end of every year to understand where I'm spending more than I should.

DVC/Disney was the #1 after our home (and that was because we did some large improvements). Disaster is the only word I can find to define how much I spend there lol

Disney/DVC should send me a nice loyalty gift.

 

[DisnEElove]

I got the feeling that the OP felt that - even though the DVC Debbie Downer was not talking directly to them - since they were carrying DVC swag and were members - it kind of was directed towards them…

That's exactly how it felt. They were talking soooo loud; and the conversation came out of nowhere. No one had mentioned DVC at all. We were sitting on the bus stuck for 30 minutes because of the overflow of buses that the downed monorail created for the bus stop.. there were no signs or other DVC marketing outside of our gear. It was a passive-aggressive dig, it felt. No one's Evesdropping when you talk that loud; especially when we are all sitting so close, it's obvious you want others to hear. But I'm over it now. I had a great trip, and am quite happy I'm a DVC member.

 

[DisnEElove]

So, the man who was speaking was staying at the GF? All his "Investment-Bro" talk makes sense now as he probably has more money that he knows what to do with. Disney rarely offers discounts on Christmas Week. As a DVC member who travelled during Christmas/New Years for about 20 years, I was always shocked at how much the non-DVC resort guests were paying at BW and AK. For instance, holiday rates start at $1350 per night at the GF. So, a week would have set him back $10,632 with tax. Your dues for that week in a studio (278 points @ $7.93 per point) would have set you back $2,205. Same week, same resort and you saved $8,427 (or more!) over Mr. "Investment-Bro". At today's VGF resale rates, he would break even in just 5 years.

Is DVC the best "investment"? No, it's not. But I have to say that it is now the only reason I still go to WDW. I choose not to afford Disney resort rates even at a discount.

Yeah, it makes sense to become members, if you're staying there. We extended our stay and moved to the hotel rooms -- the rooms were def $1300/night.

 

[DisnEElove]

I was checking my general spend this year in Quicken Simplifi as I do at the end of every year to understand where I'm spending more than I should.

DVC/Disney was the #1 after our home (and that was because we did some large improvements). Disaster is the only word I can find to define how much I spend there lol

Disney/DVC should send me a nice loyalty gift.

I do the same reflection every year. We're saving money vs direct cash rates as members, but it certainly doesn't change the fact that we're still spending $10-20k a year on disney-related travel.

 

[PoohsFan1]

As I look at my closet of DVC Member spirit jerseys. It's like my uniform.

DH and I have our own share of DVC swag too and we aren't embarrassed about it either . My License plate reads "LVDVC10" (bought in 2010) and I extremely am proud of it. It's a IYKYK situation around my hometown, especially with vehicles sporting WDW/DVC swag as well. Of course I don't go around flaunting the fact that we are DVC, the only way we talk about it is in conversation and the other party mentions it first, then we engage.