Why are new homes built mostly McMansions when people want smaller?

[kanerf]

I can pretty much guarantee that a builder who builds a bunch of 2-3 bedroom 2 bath homes at between 1200 and 2000 sqft will sell all of them before they are finished. Particularly if they can hit a 300K price point.

 

[greeneyedchick]

Remember when you could order a Craftsmans Home kit from the Sears catalog and build a home yourself?

 

[MillauFr]

I really do wonder if there are city planners any more or if the township boards are considering the economy in a long term way.

Why should the city planners get involved in parking decisions? Shouldn't that be up to the builder and buyer of the house?

 

[MillauFr]

Seems if a builders goal is to sell they should make what people want.

Their only goal is to maximize profits.

 

[MillauFr]

I can pretty much guarantee that a builder who builds a bunch of 2-3 bedroom 2 bath homes at between 1200 and 2000 sqft will sell all of them before they are finished. Particularly if they can hit a 300K price point.

That price point is impossible here with residentially zoned land selling for $10 to $20million an acre.

 

[neverlandsky]

that's the big issue in the largest city near us. there are a wealth of older homes that sit on lots upwards of a half acre with owners who have expressed interest in subdividing for new construction or at least building rental adu's but the neighborhoods are quite old and have VERY narrow streets/existing driveways built for the days when 1 car was much more the norm so parking is the big issue. with existing residents already using much if not all street parking (they have to display permits) where will additional dwellers park? it gets even worse during the winter when residents have to keep one side of the street empty on certain days for snow plows. there was recently a piece on the local news about a 2 story-6 plex being approved on one of these lots, nothing was said about parking so it will be interesting to see how they handle it (perhaps no yard-all parking behind the original craftsman home that will remain).

See I wouldn’t mind the micro lots with no parking if the area was mass transit/bike friendly. Especially with how vehicle insurance is through the roof.

To build on micro lots with no parking and no infrastructure for mass transit. It’s just plain awful. It’s really having us considering to relocate to an area that is mass transit/bike friendly.

 

[fla4fun]

Our neighborhood has a minimum square footage requirement. It’s not overly huge at 1,800 sq. ft., but most of the homes are probably in the 2,000-2,500 sq. ft. size. The neighborhood is not completely built out, as each home is custom built, not the developer cookie cutter approach. My home is one of the larger ones at just over 3,600 sq. ft., but the lots on our cul de sac are also the largest in the neighborhood (I assume because the street is a cul de sac and they simply divided the land into equal parcels). I love my home and where it is located, so I plan to live here for the remainder of my life or until I can no longer take care of myself while living independently.

I don’t think I should feel guilty that I want to live in my own home for as long as possible. I think it’s offensive and ageist for society to try to coerce someone from their home because they have hit a particular birthday. We (general we) have no idea how much or how little each homeowner is contributing in either time or money towards their community, regardless of their age. It may be that your senior neighbor is volunteering more than the working parent, since they have the time, and they may have a lifetime of discretionary savings to spend as well. Perhaps my view is skewed by living in Florida, where people with time and money come to retire, and circumstances are different elsewhere.

I will agree that there seem to be fewer neighborhoods of starter homes available in today’s economy, which prevents people who want to get into home ownership from doing so. I don’t see that changing unless either the economy turns around or communities actively pursue that type of neighborhood development. The developers are going to go where the big money is unless forced to do otherwise.

 

[barkley]

Yes, consumer spending. Most of the seniors in the Pennsylvania area we raised our kids spend very differently and behave very differently. I certainly do not spend now like I did when my kids were home.

My in-laws and neighbors for example, ate frugally at home no big feasts anymore, they went to restaurants often but ate deliberately spending waaaayyy less than I did as a busy mom landing at a restaurant with 4 other families after a sports match easily seating 20, . They slid into a far more chill phase where had most of the stuff they wanted (not easy to buy for seniors at the holidays in my opinion) and needed and took care of their stuff with the intent of keeping it to last, the sofa they now have lasted 15 years, their cars were $$$ but very low milage so they kept them forever whereas I swapped every so often, families are generally harder on vehicles. Sports & band, if you do not know the extraordinary expenses associated with extra curricular I can see how it would be discounted. Every single sport and hobby has its own gear, including shoes, which need to be replaced every single year and so many costs that go off on tangents that my head would spin when a kid would say, "mom I wanna try ----." Then there is the clothing differences, my kids were growing and being trendy which cost a fortune all the time, meanwhile all the seniors I know had very full closets of very nice classic accumulated things so they rarely needed or bought they just mixed and matched, my MIL has a closet full of pricey purses she would just select from on a day out. Both vacation but it is different, a family is buying 4-8 airline tickets and theme park tickets paying for just as many meals but the seniors I know tended to have 2 tickets and stay at higher end places with less quantity more quality. As far as spending on services, that is very different too. Babysitting & pet sitting is still alive and well in PA, paying with cash for a neighbors kid to pick up mail, paying for random lessons for the new sport or piano lessons, is going to bubble through the area quickly sure seniors can do it but they do it with less frequency, the seniors I know had people they knew to assist with this stuff more often. The impulse spending of a family is significantly more while the seniors I know tend to save more, they do spend more on some particular things like an assortment of $$$ medications which get siphoned off to the pharmacy while the family impulse spending is floated around in the local economy where the petsitter goes off to buy lessons in batting from the local high school superstar who pays someone to hand paint something cool on their skateboard. In my experience age creates very different kinds of spenders.

shows how different things are region to region/place to place.

i'm familiar with band-was choir/band kid 5th grade through college. yes, back then such stuff was better funded in the schools but the only 'gear' on the expense of the parents was instruments (if the school did not have the individual one available to loan), reeds and such-but with the exception of a specific style of blouse/white dress shirt for concert choir- all band and choir 'uniforms' were provided by the school. guess we were fortunate when we moved to an entirely different state/region and had kids involved in the same stuff some 30 years later b/c by then there were rules in place that with the exception of shoes nothing associated with a school associated activity or sport in our district could entail parental funding UNLESS the parent chose to-so be it choir, band, sports-all on the district's (and taxpayer's) dime. the goal was for things to be inclusionary for all students (and there were funds available for the asking if shoes were a financial issue for an individual student).

that aside-i can't imagine that the percentage of 'family' homebuyers whose kids participate in costly extracurriculars, wear 'trendy' clothing and the like realy make much of a local fiscal impact when comparing the average overall 'family' homebuying pool's local fiscal impact vs. seniors (who in our area much more frequently support and employ -paying local sales tax on-pest services, lawn care services, security monitoring services, hvac service contractors, snow removal services, pet walkers/groomers and the like).

vacations? as i see it-not a factor on your own local economy unless you vacation where you live.

 

[MICKIMINI]

Where are you looking? It is hard to compare apples to oranges. We looked at Del Webb 1500-1800 sf homes in Ocala late 2022. 400-500K. They were 15' from the next house and cookie cutter and sterile inside but gorgeous resort like gated community. It just didn't feel right, so we started looking in Lakes Region NH and found several choices:

1. Killer view mountainside lot with potential for lots of blasting and unknowns...house would likely have been 1200-1400 sf and 1 car. View tax can be astronomical.

2. Existing 100 year old, 2500 sf home with outbuildings nicely cared for.

3. Small lot with some mountain/lake views already permitted for 2500 sf finished plus 3000 sf unfinished and 3 car. Ability to semi customize home. Low tax town.

All homes were just about the same price (and not nearly a million!) Which would you choose? We went with #3. It was a no brainer. We were able to negotiate to pay full price but asked for many upgrades which the builder agreed to.

We rethought our options and found the perfect home in NH. Our existing home sold in a week so we were able to move forward knowing permits were set. It still took a long time but it was worth it.

 

[LuvOrlando]

shows how different things are region to region/place to place.

i'm familiar with band-was choir/band kid 5th grade through college. yes, back then such stuff was better funded in the schools but the only 'gear' on the expense of the parents was instruments (if the school did not have the individual one available to loan), reeds and such-but with the exception of a specific style of blouse/white dress shirt for concert choir- all band and choir 'uniforms' were provided by the school. guess we were fortunate when we moved to an entirely different state/region and had kids involved in the same stuff some 30 years later b/c by then there were rules in place that with the exception of shoes nothing associated with a school associated activity or sport in our district could entail parental funding UNLESS the parent chose to-so be it choir, band, sports-all on the district's (and taxpayer's) dime. the goal was for things to be inclusionary for all students (and there were funds available for the asking if shoes were a financial issue for an individual student).

that aside-i can't imagine that the percentage of 'family' homebuyers whose kids participate in costly extracurriculars, wear 'trendy' clothing and the like realy make much of a local fiscal impact when comparing the average overall 'family' homebuying pool's local fiscal impact vs. seniors (who in our area much more frequently support and employ -paying local sales tax on-pest services, lawn care services, security monitoring services, hvac service contractors, snow removal services, pet walkers/groomers and the like).

vacations? as i see it-not a factor on your own local economy unless you vacation where you live.

No such limits where we raised our kids, we didn't do band we did sports but I was in PTA and had a front row view of all the options. In fact, when band uniforms were replaced it cost $180,000, then there is the football turf and soccer turf and various equipment embellishments and updates where a great deal is collected in massive community based fundraising efforts plus senior jackets and all. Mind you all of this was spent locally, all of it so even if there was a sparing of taxes due to a sometimes charity designation there were still massive purchases, gigantic massive purchses plus all the fall out dining from sports team events and expos... like so much.

As for vacations, I don't know about you but most people fly out of where they are and purchase where they are so the taxes are collected where they are, plus parking the vehicle or an UBER black etc.not including new shoes and clothing needed for the trips all bought locally.

You can see it your way, I just don't think seniors spend the same way as families at all unless the seniors are raising kids. Ehhh, it's all good, have a great day.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I can pretty much guarantee that a builder who builds a bunch of 2-3 bedroom 2 bath homes at between 1200 and 2000 sqft will sell all of them before they are finished. Particularly if they can hit a 300K price point.

That's what I'm saying!

Many more people can afford the $300K than the $800K and are at much less risk of default, simply because it is cheaper. How is this not better than stalled empty job builder sites with no workers working and no taxes being paid? How are the builders even making the loan payments if they aren't selling?

 

[LuvOrlando]

Why should the city planners get involved in parking decisions? Shouldn't that be up to the builder and buyer of the house?

No, forethought is the point.

 

[barkley]

Remember when you could order a Craftsmans Home kit from the Sears catalog and build a home yourself?

well before my time but there were some in the area i grew up in.

i think it's interesting to drive through different neighborhoods in the cities and towns we live near. the average size of what were considered single family homes has changed so much over the years. what was considered a suitably sized home for a family with 3 or 4 kids now would now not even be considered by a family of 4. shoot-the northern california 1080 sq foot home my parents raised 4 kids in (3 bed/2 bath) apparantly is not even up for consideration as a family home these days, i saw it's recent real estate listing along with other homes in that neighborhood of similar size-all the listings are geared as 'perfect for retirees'.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Our neighborhood has a minimum square footage requirement. It’s not overly huge at 1,800 sq. ft., but most of the homes are probably in the 2,000-2,500 sq. ft. size. The neighborhood is not completely built out, as each home is custom built, not the developer cookie cutter approach. My home is one of the larger ones at just over 3,600 sq. ft., but the lots on our cul de sac are also the largest in the neighborhood (I assume because the street is a cul de sac and they simply divided the land into equal parcels). I love my home and where it is located, so I plan to live here for the remainder of my life or until I can no longer take care of myself while living independently.

I don’t think I should feel guilty that I want to live in my own home for as long as possible. I think it’s offensive and ageist for society to try to coerce someone from their home because they have hit a particular birthday. We (general we) have no idea how much or how little each homeowner is contributing in either time or money towards their community, regardless of their age. It may be that your senior neighbor is volunteering more than the working parent, since they have the time, and they may have a lifetime of discretionary savings to spend as well. Perhaps my view is skewed by living in Florida, where people with time and money come to retire, and circumstances are different elsewhere.

I will agree that there seem to be fewer neighborhoods of starter homes available in today’s economy, which prevents people who want to get into home ownership from doing so. I don’t see that changing unless either the economy turns around or communities actively pursue that type of neighborhood development. The developers are going to go where the big money is unless forced to do otherwise.

Saying people spend differently is not agist at all, like what? No-one is saying people should be pushed out but smaller homes for families should be encouraged because the way these groups spend is vital. The cities all over the US are dying now because the young people have been driven out due to housing costs being too high and they spend in their own particular way which keeps their scene going in ways other demographics do not. Also my MIL staying in a home she can't keep and ending up in a facility where she does not spend freely actually benefits no-one, now no-one should be forced but she would have been better off had she pivoted of her own free will, in the end life forced her hand. Wish she had shifted to a smaller place she could have managed on her own, but that was not to be.

If is a fact, I did not spend like a kid as I did as a teen. I did not spend as a young adult without kids as I did as an adult with kids. I do not spend in my 50's like I did at any other time before and I doubt I spend now like I will. Acknowledging my habits have changed is not agist, I find this to be an odd baffling statement.

 

[kdonnel]

Why are new homes built mostly McMansions when people want smaller?

My assumption is that builders build what sells. So most buyers don't want smaller.

 

[mom2rtk]

But I just read new home sales are not great, this does not support the idea there is demand
https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-new-home-sales-unexpectedly-fall-february-2024-03-25/

I think the industry has had some massive shifts pretty recently because of the big change in interest rates. Things will remain in flux as long as rates are high. Who wants to give up a 3% mortgage to buy something new with a 7% rate?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think it’s offensive and ageist for society to try to coerce someone from their home because they have hit a particular birthday.

I don't disagree but in terms of housing markets it does make a difference and I say that with the point of us building a house as wanting to stay in it so decades down the road I will be part of the problem and I'm not offended (yet) at least at someone telling me that me holding onto my house isn't affecting things on a larger scale because it is. But I'm locked in just as much as anyone else. We could not afford a new build property in my county with the average new build at $745K and we, even with what we've got now compared to our mid-20s it would be incredibly difficult to get into homeownership with the pricing that they are now. And for the majority of people my age around me it's actually impossible rather than just incredibly difficult.

With finite number of homes available is makes a huge difference if the individuals with the buying power are not turning over the homes at a certain level. To get buying power normally you need to get the foot in the door but if you can't get your foot in the door you can't get that leverage. And unaffordable housing and scarcity of housing had progressively turned off millennials and below from homeownership in general. But then that added to the issue of rentals as the rental pricing is out of whack and options not as plentiful.

It's just a mess all around and that is a part of the equation.

 

[Skywalker3]

New building and developments are INSANE in our area. Just completely out of control. Just building, building, building with ZERO improvements or expansions for roads, schools, TRAFFIC, etc. It's unchecked.
They are developing 2 large parcels of land not too far from us, and when all is said and done, will be over 400 more houses. No plans for road widening. To get back to one of them, you take this winding, curvy backroad. DS's high school is already over capacity, with 2200 kids (capacity is just at 2000) so no idea where all of these new kids are going to go to school.
I just looked on realtor, and there are quite a few smaller homes going up in the town south of us, under 2000 sq feet. but they are in a different county, and schools aren't as desirable. But if not worried about school zones, they would be good options.
My parent's generation never considered downsizing, or moving as they got older, although in reality none of them had very large houses. They just stayed put either until they passed away, or needed to go into a home or assisted living. My in laws moved here and bought a larger house than they had, but my MIL has said she'd want to move if anything happens to my FIL.
Around here, most of the smaller sized, more affordable houses are going to be out in the rural areas.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

they spend in their own particular way which keeps their scene going in ways other demographics do not.

Funny story...last week IIRC I read a headline that said something to the effect that Millennials and Gen Z's new splurge is....wait for it....groceries because we're at that point where Trader Joe's (which was one of the places mentioned) vs Walmart is where its at.

The article said "younger cohorts ranked splurging on groceries higher than plans to splurge on any other category, including restaurants, bars, travel, beauty and personal care, apparel and fitness."

I guess we've come full circle from the "if you just stopped getting Starbucks..." nah they've just given up hope entirely

 

[tvguy]

My assumptions is that builders build what sells. So most buyers don't want smaller.

Exactly. They are only building what buyers are demanding.

There are two trends here, bigger with people expected a house to have AT LEAST one dedicated home office space, or two. 4 car garage. 4 bedrooms, at least 3 bathrooms. 2-3,000 square feet Or smaller in the city center. The city is pushing density in the city center as old buildings are torn down. To the point they are allowing housing to be built with NO parking. Now, smaller isn't any less EXPENSIVE. One of these 900 square foot units can cost as much as a 3,000 foot house in the suburbs.